All pictures are of Allen Logging Company Forks,WA I'll post some more later. Enjoy.
those are truly amazing fotos. thanks, keep em coming
Nice. Thanks. Is Mayr brothers still in business out that way?
Those are some very cool old pictures.
Heres a older one of a drop line landing a turn guess it can't be that old really , the chaser has a hard hat on . i'll dig out some more and scan them soon and post more also . i think these old shots are great and amazing . My grandfather alway said" back then the Men were made out of steel and the machines were wood "
On the last picture notice the Berger tube in the back. I counted 8 guylines. Also the truck is being towed up the hill. :tong More pictures to come later.
Post #6 First photo, that appears to be a wooden reach. Uncle had one in the early '60s that I drove prior to being legal to drive.... 12' bunks and 3' stakes. Exhaust right out of the hood, a 220 Cummins and a 4X4 transmission with 14x24 tires. Power steering was unheard of then. I may be incorrect, but I am fairly sure it was a '48 Mack "L" series. Not too sure about the model though. A year or so later, he changed to a steel reach.
These pictures don't have any machines in them except for the faller and scaler lol ( Dad alway told me to let the machine do the work , only problem was he thought i was the machine HEHE ). i was wonder if someone could tell when the scalers left the bush and started to scale on the flat and sometimes paved sorts on the B C coast
Heres a copy of a wage scale from the Queen Charlotte Island Spruce Negotiations . Sorry the year is unknown . Just thought a few of you might want to compare your today rate to what they got yesterday, most positions don't even apply anymore . Maybe we should go back to towers and wooden trees and get some boys back to work again P.S if you find picture too small you can use Ctrl and your scroll wheel on mouse at same time to make page larger or smaller depends on which way you scroll the wheel
It was in 1972 I believe the year of the fallers Strike when they went from being payed by the board foot to the day rate. The Scalers had the choice of being broken in as a faller or using their senority to bump into another job.It was a long strike for them as they did not want the day rate for most part
I remember hearing about how many scalers used to get killed and injured in those days, lots of them were just kids doing it as a summer job. They would end up standing in the path of falling trees, etc. Others would start playing with the saws and cause all kinds of trouble.
Great pictures thanks for sharing them with us. Will be looking forward to any thing else you have to share, for sure.
found a few more wages rates for camp 3 youbou and camp 6 caycuse the year 1936, Might be alittle hard to read sry about that . I find them interesting hope some of you do also
R & R time at Skidgate Lake , North Coast Timber , Queen Charlotte Islands 1942
More from Skidegate Lake. I think the North Coast Timber camp burned down in 1943 or 44.
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More Skidegate Lake.
Those are some pretty kool pics trakloader
Old Mill Photo Does any one recognize this mill? WAG that it is in the Gales Creek, Oregon area.
WOW!!! GREAT STUFF GUYS!!! really workin for A living then!!! Super photos guys! Please keep em coming!
Cumshewa Camp, Kelley Logging 1950's Last Run on the Railroad Railway era comes to an end...........
More from Cumshewa........
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Thanks Trakloader! I am in the process of requesting pics from the museum in Coos Bay Ore. The archivist said they have 250000 pictures on file and being that its a ship/lumber town I am hoping to have found a gold mine!!! More to be revealed! Please post ANY AND ALL GEARED lokies!!!! LOVE THAT STUFF!!
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Davis raft construction.
WOOOOW!!!!! These are AMAZING!!!! Whoever took these really captured some truly killer shots!!!!
More Cumshewa.........
The "boom" guys building the rafts... Again...awesome. It really puts into A scale for me the size of those things and how easy I bet it was to really hurt yourself! Thx again TL
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A few more from Cumshewa Inlet.........
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Some from Shannon Bay now, Davis Raft construction.
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Continued, with my 500th. post, I'm done for tonight!
RAD TL!!!!! Lotsa stuff to peruse!!! Thanks a bunch!!! Big fan here in Northern California!!!
Wow what a bunch of great pictures, thanks for taking time to scan them and share with us. Lots of hard dangerous work back then. Topping trees had to be one of the biggest rushes having that top let go and the tree trying to shake you off. Then standing on the top, no thanks!
Congrats Trakloader Well Done and every one a treasure Thank You
Here is a picture showing Contract Logger's first outfit...
Hilarious TL!!!! I am sure hes got the specs and serial numbers on all them ox and where they got the bear grease from! LOL
Pics from Juskatla, BC 1950's. Kelley Logging Co. a subsidiary of the Powell River Company.
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More.... some in colour, too....
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The end...... for now...
Westcoast aviation interest showing through here. Are the Beaver and the C-180 pictured out of Sandspit and are they in PWA colours or is that BC Airlines livery? Great shots, by the way - keep them coming. I can hardly wait until the package gets here.
BC Airlines! I have a nice side view of one of the Beavers somewhere, and also some of a Trans-Provincial Otter.
You still awake trakloader? It's Nigel here, new name, less intimidating lol. And great pictures, I've looked through them a couple times now.
Good plan, your other name made me picture Grizzly Adams or Jeremiah Johnson... :tong
Lol, me too, and this one makes me sound smerter. And what do you think of my new and improved signature!?
More great pictures thanks again for sharing. Still amazed at the loads they put on those trucks. Had to be pretty darn careful loading them as it looks like there isn't much to keep the logs from rolling off, till done and tied down.
I would be very interested in seeing those shots of the old BC Airlines equipment - any idea what year those were taken? As an aside, I happen to have a piece of skin from an old BC Airlines float plane, showing the airline crest up on my basement wall. Very rare it would seem, because I've only seen it in photos from the late '40s or '50s. I spotted it up in the Sunshine Coast area and I imagine that it came from a wreck.
I'll let trakloader to catch his breath and post a few .. These pictures are of Harris Creek Vancouver island 1953
Not sure where these are taken at assuming its Vancouver island the year is 1941
Its amazing what those old timers did with just cable and hand tools and lots of steam power. Not having any work place health and safety around probably helped.
HDX may know for sure, but I don't think they tied the loads down back then. I remember Grandpa saying how he had to build the loads to stay on in those days. I also remember something about the chunk truck spending a lot of time picking up lost logs. I have a picture from the M&B days taken by my friend Terry, he caught a log falling off the truck. He mentioned that they weren't using binders in those days.
There was a BC Airlines Beaver that crashed near Skidegate Lake in the 50's, and about a dozen years ago, they packed up the remains and sent them South. I understand that they are in storage awaiting rebuild. CF-GQM, three people died including the pilot. Three passengers survived. There were quite a few angry old timers when they did that, they felt it was almost like digging up a grave. I saw the plane tied down on the trailer, waiting for the ferry. It was still clearly identifiable as a BC Airlines plane.
Hi guys, great pics from about 60yrs ago. There should be some nice regrowth in these places now. Can it still be cut or have the greenies got it all locked up like they have everywhere else? One thing that can be done with the right climate and conditions is grow trees for timber. Lets do it!
I think I saw some on this thread-if anyone has any pictures of the old "A" frame logging days of SE Alaska and B.C, I'd like to see some more. Thanks for posting some great pics already.
So they only pulled the wreck out a dozen years ago? With the value of a Beaver being what it is today, I'm surprised it wasn't back in service years ago. I went to a DHC-2 website and looked it up - S/N 88, built in 1950 and crashed in Cumshewa Inlet - three fatalities and three survivors. There's a photo there of it in BC Airlines livery - it has the same crest on the side of the fuselage that I have on my basement wall.
Funny that the topic of cinch lines come up right now. Yes we alway used chich lines (two) spaced about 12 feet apart. You could still load the crap out of the trucks and throw your lines over BUT when you went into a lean in the road the peaker (top log) would some times roll off and take your lines with it Most log loader operators were VERY good--if you pissed them off you got all big logs on one side of the truck and little ones on the other side-after a couple of those you had a habit of calling them "sir" and listening instead of talking. A couple weeks ago we had a bad one when two off-highway trucks(both Pacifics Thank God) had a head on sideswipe--The loaded truck was loaded with small logs (2nd growth) and the cinches were maybe too close together-- im not sure because I wasnt there- but this would allow the top two logs to swing out to the drivers side about 10 feet into the oncoming traffic--Driver didnt see them and when he met the empty truck coming towards him the other driver saw the two gunbarreled logs coming right for the cab. He threw himself down on the floor and the two logs came into the cab and broke off inside the truck!!! Pretty sobering sight So yes we still use chinch lines. When we were cross hauling out in the NitNat with the BCFP drivers --they didnt use cinch lines because they only loaded to the top of the stakes and flattened the load out They had the 9 foot high stakes wereas we had the 7 footers. I always liked their idea because they very rarely lost logs along the mainline
Great shots TL. I am curius is this your neck of the woods. I think it would be cool to go to the spots these were taken and see how nature handled it!! Those operations looked like the ol timers really were not afraid to bring it in!!! Luck for them they had Kenworth to help!!!!
Many of those pics were taken within ten minutes drive of home. There is nothing to see where the logging was done, the trees are too tall to get a good comparison shot. I can, however, take some shots in camp, where the old log dump was.
Yup, it grows back quick. I started as a tree planter at M & B in the mid '70s. When I head over to the West Coast (Tofino), some of the areas I planted in the Taylor River Fire burn are probably 40 feet tall now - if not higher.
Wow, scary stuff. One of our loaders put all buckskins on a truck a couple of years ago, and one slid over the top, jill poked the road, and dented the top rad tank before ripping the driver's side mirror post off. Pretty close call for the driver! I did some checking, and back in the KW days they didn't use cinch straps at all. Why, I have no idea. Maybe a "golden boy" drove the chunk truck! I remember hearing about one load collapsing and killing the 2nd. loader, but I can't confirm that. Long before even Dad's time.
That would be really cool. I just went last week to Coos Bay Or, to see if log trucking was for me or not and was AMAZED at the rate of growth for Doug fir there!!!! Unreal. After the days work I think I will stay w being A carpenter for now but what A neat work place!!! Thanks again, the likleyhood of getting to see these places first hand is gonna be remote so this forum has been A real god send. I really appreciate this EXACT type of history!!!! I think A thread for "then and now" would be real cool and fun to see!!! Rad thread TL and all who share!!!! Thx!
Here is the old cookhouse in Juskatla, probably mid 50's. They moved a bigger cookhouse in around 1962.
Couple of cool cats in Juskatla, 1957.
Just found this picture of Contract Logger's first yarder....:tong
Awun Bay, 1940's. Awun Bay camp. They skidded logs from the lake above. I hiked to this spot a few years ago, not much to see now.
More, with some from 2008.
Someone Was Looking for A-Frames..... A-Frames
One more before bedtime.........
More amazing pictures, I sure am enjoying them. So the loader had to be pretty good to make a load that would ride. Very interesting. I have noticed in the pictures most pretty lean from work, men. In the cook house the men are there to eat, looks like the forks are being put to hard use. No one talking, there to eat and then back to work. Hard work back then, for sure. I like Contract Loggers first machine, good one!
Old mill photo Steam powered crane
The Old Portland Forestry Museum I had a chance to go in this once before it burned in the early 60's. As a kid it was huge! This is a clipping from a magazine. The caption reads, Forestry Building is a leftover from the 1905 Lewis and Clark Exposition, the West Coasts first worlds fair. Fifty-two Douglas fir tree trunks support great vault roof. Forestry exhibit inside, early logging equiptment outside including donkey engine.
Hey TL. Are these the remnants of the old plank roads??? I love the "old growth" moss on em! Really pretty country ya fellas have up there! Thanks for getting the "after" pics up! I love how nature takes it back and gets ready for next time! These photos are great!
Some Body SAVE ME please
DUDE!! Where can I see that lokie??? WOW thats thee coolest lawn ornament I have ever seen!!! Thye saddle tank style is KACOOOOL!!!!!!
Port McNeill. B.C. Northeren Vancouver Island, Come quick before a bird lands on it and it collapses
Simon Benson A Benson log from Oak point camp marked for the Forestry Building. These 52 column logs were 6 feet in diameter and 60 plus feet tall. The worlds largest log cabin contained over a million BdFt. The structure was 206ft x 102ft x 72 ft tall. That is Simon standing next to one of the logs he donated. Special care was taken in the handling of there logs to keep the bark intact.
Copy 075!!! A lil more "patina" than the photo shows huh? Its super cool at any rate! All I get to see STILL run down my way are at A place in Santa Cruz Ca called Roaring Camp and they have three Shays and A Climax! Really gotta love anything that took two guys to tame and more to do than just hit a button to prove the engineer is still awake!
Great stuff.
WOW!!!!!??? This is UNREAL!!! I have seen some really nice log mansions but they were amature hour compared to this MONSTER!!!! This is so cool! I cannot believe they tore this place down or burned it!!! Its probably illegal to even think about doing this today w all the idiots telling guys what they can and cant build with!!! Great archive find Tree Farmer!!! Rad post!
TreeFarmer, You made my day with those photos. My memory is of about a 10 year old kid. One of the best things my Dad did was take me there. I think the fire was less than a year later. I remember fire pictures in the Oregonian. This building was located accross the street from the old Montgomery Wards building up on a little rise. The Camp 18 building would fit inside this one.
Yes, that is the plank road seen in the old pics. The basic structure remains, I guess they used cedar. Sadly, they used hemlock for the deck, so it's dangerous to walk on. The planks have dissolved, leaving the nails sticking up everywhere.
More great pictures and information. That is one heck of a log building, lots of hard work to build with those massive logs, I bet. Once more thanks to everyone for sharing so much, very enjoyable, to say the least.
Simon Benson camp This 100 year old picture shows a Sunday beer social at Benson's: Frank Rice camp. Benson camps were famous for good food, comfortable quarters, and sure pay. Most of the people pictured are immigrants and really loved the Fourth of July. In most camps the crews went to town to celebrate the Fourth of July and hardly made it back by August. Simon avoided this disruption in production by placing a keg of free whiskey in his camps about mid-June. Notice the pump tap in the top of the keg, I bet it was Blitz beer from Portland. Here is a link to a video from the 1920s of Benson operations around Clatskanie, Oregon It is narrated by the owner of the Berry Patch restaurant in Westport OR.. who had me compile this effort. It was produced for the tourists of the Lewis & Clark bicentennial. You can see CL surfing his late model "assault" donkey across the land. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=69HFZSY8OV0
This picture was way too big to scan its 4 feet by 3 feet , so its a picture of a picture . It was taken in Narrows Inlet B C looking towards the head of inlet . We logged the same area in the early 90's. Looks like a Model A for a cummy sitting in landing
Was hauling gravel yesterday, and stopped to grab a couple pics of this old set of drums. It is decorating the entrance to a driveway on Karluk St. in Kasilof Alaska. I didn't want to nose around looking for a tag or name on it. I'll be hauling there again after the snow melts. Will have another look.
Yarder Engineer No idea who this fellow is, but obviously he ran a tower. Taken about 25-30 years ago.
Wasn't sure where these should go so i put them here . looks like they testing out a new skid with a LeTourneau stacker . With couple of big wigs making sure all goes well
couple more
Old Shovel M&B roadbuilding, Queen Charlotte Division, 1972. These old machines did a great job of building grade, they would produce about 600ft. a day on average. Plus, the roads that they built then are mostly as good today as the day they were built. No wood in the grade, unlike roads built with a backhoe. Of course, operating a shovel took real skill, one of the reasons hydraulic machines replaced them. The other reason was to eliminate stump blasters. The last grade shovels in BC operated well into the 80's, with the last of ours retired around 1984, and I know of another that was still building grade in 1989 for CZ. A couple of others survived into the 90's loading rock trucks. Still, how much money did switching to backhoes really save? Think of it this way. A shovel could be expected to last at least 15 years as a production unit, indeed, many lasted much longer. One Northwest, built in 1956, was still building grade in 1983. Contrast that with a backhoe, which often gets condemned to backspar use in five years. The slower production of the backhoes necessitated one more machine than in the shovel days. Finally, many of the roads built by backhoes have begun to fail after only 20-25 years, as the wood in them has begun to decay. Many old roads built by shovels in the 1950's remain solid to this day.
^^^^^ The paint looks like a Lima, but the house design looks more like an American. What make is that shovel? Interesting comments on cable shovels versus hydraulics, and old roads vs. 'modern'.
American 750C, in MacMillan Bloedel colours.
Now it makes sense. I forgot, MB painted just about everything company colors. In my whole time as a young lad in the PNW, I don't recall ever seeing an American shovel in the woods. Or a Manitowoc, for that matter. I recall a couple old Limas that were yellow instead of their newer red/gray scheme. Most of what I saw with Weyco were Link Belt and Northwest, with a few Bucyrus.
The American 750 was THE grade shovel on the BC coast, and the Northwest Model 6 was another common one. The American was popular because of its air controls, and hook roller turn table. Mostly 1 1/2 yard size shovels were used for roadbuilding, but there were a few Northwest 41's, 1 or 1 1/4 yd. size. There may have been the odd Bucyrus, but I haven't seen or heard of any.
I was in Washington, to clarify. Grew up around Weyerhaeuser Twin Harbors and Vail.
I went to Juskatla as the Warehouse Supervisor in 1974 and that was my first experience with grade shovels and those big mats they used sometimes. They were all Americans I think as they tried to standardize their fleets up there back then. I also recall they had no Cats bigger than a D-7 too, due to the type of terrain most commonly encountered around there. As an aside to that, we had a Bucyrus 30-B log loader at Gold River in the '60's and into the '70's. Later I found a big pile of parts at Husby's camp at Eden Lake that were for a 38-B Bucyrus, although the machine wasn't around as I recall. I still wish I'd had some foresight and took pics or made some notes and things, but fortunately you guys have the history well in hand......thank goodess. Thanks again and... Take care.
Good to hear from you, I'll say Hi to Dez for you. He lives in my backyard, literally. We did have one or two D-8's back in those days, E-16, and E-42 which arrived in October 73. The first cat on the claim with electric start, according to Dad. I think they mainly used them for pushing out landings and snubbing machines. Shovels were, as you say, all American 750's. S-66, S-10, and S-12. I think they dumped the 66 when they got the Poclain, S-20. Then they sidetracked the S-10 when they got another 750, S-65. That one was the highest state of the art in line grade shovels. Proper cab, guarding, hydraulic winch on the boom, and Smith travel brakes. I heard that it ended its days on a dryland sort on VI somewhere.
Howdy, Please do say Hi to Des from me. You may know I didn't stay long at Juskatla (long and weird story) but Des was one of the guys who worked for me after retiring from the Air Force and later became the guy until his retirement. Always loved that guy and I don't think they come much better than him and his family. Used to see him steelheading when I had the Island Mack Truck store in Sandspit in the '80's and went over to fish the Yakoun. I remember him and Bunny used to golf a lot at Masset while I golfed at Sandspit. Somehow I never got up there to golf with them back then. Weird about the D-7 vs D-8 memory I have. I would have bet (and lost it appears) that M&B didn't have anything bigger than a D-7 then, but of course memories are often wrong so I have no problem being educated as required. Juskatla in 1974 is where I got my first lesson in corporate mentality and cover your ass actions, although it wasn't until some years later and a chance meeting with Brian Kurtz that illuminated things for me that I fully learned it. LOL Live and learn they say. Take care.
another old shovel ad I'll slip this one in here, cool old machine!
some of the nuts and bolts in it.
Well, you probably don't remember the D8's, since they rarely broke, and would likely have not needed parts during your stay. Say, do you remember my old Grandpa Art? He was running the commissary at that time.
Certainly do. I want to say last name Tauber??? I remember watching movies shown against the wall there. Saw the original Godfather there in '74. Lots of fond memories from that time and later the 87-90 period at Eden Lake then Sandspit. Lots of good people met along the way too. Take care.
See, your memory is better than you think! I guess everyone that spent time in Juskatla remembers Grandpa, the company set him up with the commissary when he retired. He was in Juskatla from 1948 to 85.
heres a couple of pic's of a older skidder . Wouldn't compo love to find this on the claim
Circa 1960 near Vernonia, Oregon. Quite few familiar names there, mostly gone.
A Ledgerwood Skidder logging for Oregon American near Vernonia, Ore 1948
A reload from tracks to trucks near Vernonia, Oregon
Loading rail trucks near Vernonia Ore, Love the soft hats!
thats very impressive how they did that in post 120 , kool pic's
Oregon American Mill at Vernonia, OR. At one time the largest all electric sawmill in the world.
Great old time pictures, I really enjoyed looking at the a couple times. Betting the soft hat would do just about the same as a hard hat if that log were to fall on it.
My wife and I were wandering around Vernonia this past summer while we were in Oregon and came across the remains of an old mill (mill pond and some old foundations) the city had turned into a park. Is that what's left of the old Oregon American Mill? Great photos.
Yes, why Vernonia to visit? Scott S
We were in Portland for three months and spent a lot of time exploring and looking for places to walk the dogs. Spotted Vernonia on the map and went to check it out. Glad we did, nice little town and finding the old mill was a bonus. Next time we are out I want to spend more time learning about the old mill towns and logging operations. My grandad worked for LongBell in Longview and I also want to research some of the history of that mill.
I missed this thread somehow,all I can say is WOW ! Great pictures and what a story they have to tell.
Glad you found Vernonia, I am 4th generation from there, my family still owns a portion of the original homestead.
Excellent pics you guys! Love the big old Growth and Steam power!
Thanks for the photos of the Oregon-American operations. The photos taken out in the logging sides look to have been in some parts of the Tillamook burn, as you can see the burned snags remaining in the background. After WWII they logged in the burn for a number of years to try and salvage as much of the timber as possible. My Mother told me that Dad would come home just black with soot from working there. Before the burn, most of the logging was by RR, but the fire destroyed most of the timber trestles, some of which were pretty substantial, so they went to truck logging for the most part after the war.
We barged our grapple yarder into Chemainus and got onto a off hiway lowbed to Nitnat. First time i 've been in the back country in that area and what a trip it was, but that is a whole differant story lol . I had no idea where we were i was just following the lowbed . We came across this unit i Think it was just before Copper Canyon . On the back it says PINERIDGE LOGGING the rest is graffiti . There was a plaque there about it ,but don't remember what it said and never got a picture . Maybe some of you Island boys know more about it .
Just wanted to comment on post #121, which is a great photo and very representative of logging of that era. I seem to recall that they are using what I have heard called a "hayrack" to load logs with, sort of the forerunner of a heel boom, which later became commonly used with cable shovels mounted on rubber. My Dad at one time had a Lima cable shovel mounted on four axles with a heel boom, probably a Young. I have a poor photo of it somewhere and will try to find and post.
RE #132 See ! #109 and #110 for more pictures.
thanks Ken
Old Wheeled yarder 1958- Moresby camp Alaska Pine Co.at Queen Charlotte Islands,B.C.Taken by my former neighbor where I grew up. http://youtube.com/user/skadill
Ericson Collection, Humboldt Countrey Logging Here is a link to some old time photos of old growth logging in Humboldt Countrey, California. Enjoy http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...rjacks-California-redwoods.html#ixzz25dPJtpeW
I believe that is the one that is still sitting there. Scrappers took the wheels, and at some point it had a cab fitted. Hopefully we will be getting there tomorrow to look at it.
Juskatla BC Here is Grandpa on the old Lima, with a Bohemian boom
Old days More pics from Juskatla, heel boom loading, yarder, trucks.
Here is the daily challenge, ID this truck! It pulled the old double gooseneck lowbed at Hope, BC and ended its days doing the same at Juskatla.
More old Juskatla pics Falling and bucking with a Homelite 990.
Giant spruce Faller and scaler after dropping 17' 7" Sitka Spruce. Spruce don't come much bigger, it took him 4.5 hours to drop it with a 990G Homelite.
Any ideas on that truck yet? HDX? You got any ideas? Rusty Grapple?
Looks somewhat like a late fifties kenworth although the cab doesn't look quite right.
Dad says it was chain drive, and had a gas engine. Frame looks too short for a KW. Might be an older Sterling?
I think you are correct. Any Sterling pictures I see have a raised band along the cab like the one in your pictures. The windshield area looks different but doesn't seem to match anything else. I guess the engine could have been a Hall Scott? I should get my dad to look at the pictures, he is pretty good at identifying old trucks. In other words (been around along time) HEHEHE!
Hey trakloader, please fire me a PM. Been trying to email you but keep getting bounced - perhaps you've changed email addresses? Good one on this truck. I've been intrigued by it ever since I saw it in a photo taken during its days in Hope. I've done some looking around and while my first thought was also Sterling I have another theory. I'm probably out to lunch on this but the other company that made heavy duty chain drives just before WW2 was Hug. They made one which was designed as an off-road heavy dump truck, mainly to aid in the building of dams across the US. I've seen other photos of this old truck from its days with Silver Skagit and it looks similar, albeit a little smaller, to the Hug 98MB, but with a full cab. One of the big similarities for me is the drivers side platform and grab rail and ladder. The basic fender shape is also very close to the Hug truck design. Given that the truck was pretty well used even in the late 40's photos in Hope, it could possibly be a pre-WW2 truck. Also, the Siver Skagit company was formed to log the basin prior to flooding for the Ross Dam. I've seen a photo of a similar, if not the same, truck with a large rock box on it which was working the dam site. So perhaps this was an old dump truck originally bought from another dam site with the box removed. That would account for its short frame. Its all speculation but given the time frame - the late 40's- and the limited number of companies building heavy duty chain drives at the time I don't think it is out of the realm of possibility.
Couple of observations; This looks like an old skidder, it appears that they are using both the loading and the yarding engines. I am wondering where they got the wheels. Weyerhaeuser Snoqualmie had a slack line machine on steel wheels which were old RR wheels with the flanges removed and stacked about 4 to each location. these look manufactured and I have never seen any like this before. All the other steel wheel setups were like Weyerhaeuser's. Any info? The loading rig looks like a duplex loader with the double levers to the right of the engineer
I think Diamond T I got some pics of her somewhere Will keep lookin around for them
I was thinking maybe a Diamond T too, but the windscreen looks wrong... Might just be a Hug, hard to find pics of them. Hey, do any of you old snags remember the name of the ship that delivered powder for C.I.L. from James Island, 1950's-60's?
Here is a link to Hankstruck pictures of the Silver Skagit Company that looks to be the same rig. http://www.hankstruckpictures.com/pix/trucks/silver_skagit/file0002.jpg
Yes it is, it came to Juskatla from there in 1949.
Well, here's another possibility, perhaps one closer to home for this truck. From what I understand, T.A. Peterman (Peterbilt) bought the Fageol truck company in the late 30's and began building custom heavy duty chain-drive logging trucks for his operation. Apparently they were popular and he ended up supplying them to others as early Peterbilts. I still think the low cab on this dates it to pre-war so its possible this was one of those early Peterbilts, maybe even some features of the old Fageol trucks. I found no other info on these but its a possibility. Since 1949 is the date it went to Juskatla, its quite possible this was something built in the late 30's or 1940/41. Being that Peterbilt is from the west coast, this might be a better bet.
Well, it is hard to say... The old timers used to talk about "Western" dump trucks that they brought to Juskatla in 1948-49. There is a picture of one on Hank's site, I think it was in his dad's collection. Also, when Dad saw the dump truck in the Silver Skagit pictures, he said "Hey! That's a Western!" He also thought the lowbed tractor was one. So, just WHO the heck was Western??? Can't find a thing about them anywhere!
Hood looks like a Sterling, cab looks like a Corbitt.
I take that back. Cab looks more like a Sterling with the 2-piece windshield. Shovel is an American, correct?
Yes, American 750.
Thanks. Didn't Sterling build some off-highway trucks? Seems I recall a post here about a Sterling with an air-cooled V12....
Yes, Sterling built some big chain drive off highway trucks.
1958 Cat and track arch pulling out a big spruce . Nice looking log pretty much fills the whole arch up
A little bit of mud never bothered the old timers. Now days we would be shut down if we chewed up the ground like that.
A short video of a similar Cat & Arch logging In B.C. same era here: http://youtu.be/r1t3qkhQwyA
Kool vid skadill . Picture below 1960 Port Renfrew area. Cat/arch feeding a line loader .
A Cool Sight I've no idea on this picture,it was sent second hand to me,and can't find out from who or where originally,and take no credit or infringement for it.It was just too neat for everyone not to see.Thats all I know.
All these loads were hauled from the bush as seen. It was a thought John Braaten dreamed up to get a crew picture and send a copy to his friends in Tasmania. It took about a week to organize. Weather, the wood and all crew had to be there. Photo was taken by Harry Foster. All Whonnock camps were pretty competitive in those days.
Very Nice... I grew up in that area so Is always nice to see old photos of before my time.
Found these in a collection I purchased on Ebay. First pic is the two Grumman Geese of Macmillan, Bloedel, and Powell River Limited with the soon to be converted Hawaii Mars, the others are the Marianas Mars, which crashed probably not long after these pics were taken.
Those are the first shots of the Marianas Mars flying up here that I've ever seen. I still remember watching it land in the main arm of Sproat Lake, while I played on the beach at 'Smith's Landing' back in the day. That's over 50 years ago. I'm guessing that the Mars in the first pic of your sequence is the Hawaii - parked before they converted her.
I just about keeled over when I was going through the collection, and I read the number on the tail. Pics of the Marianas Mars are pretty hard to find. And the coulor pics of Dryad and the other M&B Goose, which became Dryad II in the late 60's. Both Geese still exist, owned by Pacific Coastal. C-FIOL and C-FHUZ. And yes, that is the Hawaii Mars awaiting conversion.
Day off at Skidigate Lake Queen Charlotte Islands 1942 North Coast Timber crew having a crosscut competition
Port Renfrew 1962 Heres a couple of pictures of my dad topping a tree , could be a Spar tree or a back spar .
Maybe some of you boys south of the border know more about some of these machines or place , all that was written on these slides was Eugene 1958 . Picture's 1 & 2 are of the same line loader ,loading out of a wooden tree with a cat skidding in logs.can't read truck name on door. picture's 3 & 4 - Another line loader loading out . I can make out part of the name on the truck door ,looks like "Compton " picture 5 I think is a Washington line loader loading out , part of the name on truck is " Fogd??? "
here's a few more from Eugene Washington line loader loading out under a wooden spar tree .Looks like they might be cleaning up some of the lines before he starts loading .
Picture 5 is of a Foglio truck. They are still in business with a fleet of nice trucks in Florence Oregon. Florence is on the coast east of Eugene.
those old railroad logging pictures are just amazing for me to see. i have bin working on the railroad since i was 19 and have loved logging my whole life. so seeing the 2 industries as one is really cool.
1958 My neighbor drove this truck in Moresby,Queen Charlottes for Alaska pine Co. Moving a Sled Yarder to another setting,one truck forward,one backwards.The donkey would lift itself up in the air under the spar.
I've said this on here before, but when you see stuff like this it makes you realise how easy life is these days... LOL Woulda been an interesting sort of a day moving a rig like that. Very cool pics.
wow thats's way cool
Nice post. Its one of rare pictures that you have shared with us. Expecting more posts from you. Amazing snaps.
Found a few more pictures from Eugene 1958 . These pictures go with post # 173 & 174 in this thread
Washington and a Pacific shared photo
These images are really amazing. Those pictures really proves that this kind of industry is very traditional and very important.
Loading a big one with help from the yarder, SJ-4 loader of O'Brien Logging in Powell River BC.
Great pictures Cam!!
That straight stack coming out the top of the hoods reminds me of why my ears will never stop ringing until the day I die.... but those old trucks sure did sound nice. Even though those photos were a wee bit before my time as a driver.
Clearing right away under the power lines in PR. Skagit SJ. shared pics
Trakloader Born2clearcut fantastic pictures of the wooden tree days . Born2clearcut I think the picture in posting #62 is of the Bear Cr. thresle looking from Bear Cr. camp at the bottom of Dent Cr. The buildings are garages the crew built to keep their cars and trucks in while in camp .that was the end of the road from Shawnigan Lake . The picture of the Lima Shay #19 hauled the last train load of logs from the reload at Bear Cr. to Beach Camp in IM ALITTLE FUZZY 1957 OR 1958 . THE PICTURE OFTHE LETURNEAU IN POSTING #101 IS AT THE NEW DLS AT RENFREW DIV. THE WASHINGTON TL15 TRAKLOADER IN POSTING IS BCFP #95 AT HARRIS CR. IT WAS A TONG MACHINE WE USE TO CHERRY PICK THE RIGHTAWAYS OR YARD SHORT SETTINGS OR CORNERS ,TIE THE BUTTRIGGING UP JUST BACK OF THE LOG PILE HANG TONGS ON THE MAIN LINE AND LOAD OUT WHAT WE HAD YARDED.
No, It's Not a Sears Electric Saw Ok, here's one for the old timers on here, anyone remember using an electric saw to fall old growth timber? Yeah I know most of us have picked up a sears electric, maybe you even fell a little bush the woman wanted out, but these were much larger, this one has a 5 or 6 foot bar on it. The photo is from the William Boyle collection, and was taken in the Hammond Lumber Co. woods in 1930. The photo says the saw is powered by a generator mounted on a truck. It says "electric saw used to fell a Redwood tree". The bark looks to be a Douglas Fir, but then again I was not there, so we'll leave it at that. Notice the power cord on the ground. These were used in some big timber, it must have been nice, no huge cloud of smoke like the gas powered saws of the time. Photo identifies the faller as "Big Nick Nichols" the man on the right.
Generator Here's a pic of the generator on the truck, I can't identify the make of truck.
I have suspected for some time that in years to come, self-contained, battery-powered electric saws could replace gas-powered saws. Call me crazy, but wait and see. Oregon already has a small model on the market, and there may be others as well.
The tree service industry has been screaming for an electric saw with good power and good battery life for years. The biggest holdout is weight, using a 15 pound tree saw sounds like a piece of cake, but use it for 8 hours in a tree and your arms will be cramping quite nicely, I've done it more times than I can count. A light weight powerful tree saw.....5-8 lbs. would be a God send, no starter rope, no saw gas, no exhaust, very little noise therefore increased safety as the climber needs no ear plugs..... extra battery on the charger on the truck....Yes!
As I have been told, the electric saws faded out around the late 40’s. Since most of us were at best in diapers, at the time, I doubt any of us had a chance to use one at work. Seeing the hard hats makes me wonder though about the time frame though. It looks to be the early 50s. Weyerhaeuser Snoqualmie had the big electric yarders. And electric saws were used in conjunction with them. As I was told, in the early 70’s when the electric yarders disappeared around the late 30s (too far from the mill powerhouse) so did the electric saws. The chains they used looked more like the crosscut saw of the era. I know somebody here knows when the “modern” chain came out. I have heard the story, but have since forgotten it. I tried to remember the stories of the fellows who were retiring in the early 70s who had put their 40+ years in after hiring out in the late 20s and early 30s. Everything else seemed irrelevant at the time. The #1 truck driver at the time (1973) had hired out in 1931 as a speeder operator. When they got the first truck in 1935, he drove it and became the #1 truck driver until he retired. Quite an accomplishment. Keeping up with some of those old farts was quite a feat even for us young farts.
But without the blue haze, what would keep the bugs away
I'd hate to use it on a rainy day - this thing might give you a shock.
And also the snakes, if you're here in the South.
In the early 50's the Dutch Elm disease killed off most of the Elm trees around here. There were two guys that had a hydraulic driven chain saw, that cut down a lot of the bigger trees. Had a gas motor with a pump mounted in a trailer, and two hydraulic lines going to the saw.
wm Wes Mckechnie has sent me a copy of his fathers 1947 pay slip. Self explanetory (Ken Mckechnie) Their old shop is still in Dewdney-now a grocery store on east side of road . Logged up Suicide Creek (Norrish) and wet dumped on dyke road. Ken Mckechnie drove #6-230 HDX Hayes at Caycuse for BCFP until he retired.
dw Dave Walker running loader by a wooden spar tree at Uzzells up Knights Inlet.
JW Duncan B.C. John Walker has loaned me his pictures to share . The first one is his father John Walker senior logging off Riverbottom Rd. July 8,1937 with his 1936 Allis Chambers Crawler Tractor
JW Bill Auchinachie topping a spare tree 1938-39 on Mt. Prevost Duncan B.C.
JW Bill Auchinachie and John Walker senior rigging spar tree on Mt. Prevost 1938-39 Duncan B.C.
Climbing/topping/rigging must have had about the highest mortality rate of any job in the woods back then. I have heard the horror stories about a tree slabbing at about 120 feet up as it is being topped. Chopping the climbing rope by mistake... using a climbing strap with a steel shank to guard against accidentally chopping the climbing rope/strap, only to have the tree slab and not be able to cut the strap to save you from being cut in half by the strap as the tree separates.... having to thunk the tree with the back side of a single bit axe all the way up to make sure the wood was sound.... Mr. Finley Hays told me that he was sure that he topped and rigged over a thousand spars in his time as a climber/rigger. Back then, men were MEN. God bless all those fine people in the woods.... back in the day.
JW WFI Meads Creek
JW WFI Meads Creek
JW WFI Meads Creek
JW WFI Meads Creek
Outstanding photos! Wasn't that spar tree a bit on the small side for those days? Also, did they have to anchor those big, heavy diesel-powered yarders to stumps like they did the sled donkeys?
I really don't know Vigilant these pictures belong to a friend of mine and they were taken in the late 1950's a couple of years before my time , the fellow on the yarder in the first picture is Andy Erickson.
I'll have to dig out some of my dad's old slides and have them printed. Somewhere, I have an excellent shot of an old, old donkey puncher standing beside his steampot. He was one proud man, God bless him. I do have a story to share about the days of the steampots. I don't recall his name, but there was one legendary donkey puncher who worked for Saginaw Timber, down below Aberdeen, WA. He could make that hard-to-get 'blue steam', and he out-logged every other donkey puncher with the outfit. Other punchers used to jockey for position to get his donkey when he moved on to the next setting. Back then, you left the donkey you worked on the last setting, and when you came to the fresh setting with the logs falled and bucked and ready to yard, they already had another donkey set up and rigged, to save time. They never could figure out why someone else could get one of his old donkeys, and could not make half the production he could with the same machine. Well, someone finally decided to find out what was going on. Seems he would sneak back to the setting after dark when everyone else was at camp, and tamper with the pressure release valve so that he could hold a little more pressure than he was supposed to before it popped off. Then, when he finished with a machine, he would tamper with that same valve so that it popped off BEFORE it was supposed to, and not allow the boiler to build up enough steam. I suspect there were a few angry donkey punchers when the word got out.
It was a lot of fun working with some of those charactures and it sure made things interesting . Got to call it a night an old friend must have been desperate asked me haul a load of pipe down to Victoria in rush hour traffic tomarrow AM, so much for retirement.
Don't forget to take yer Geritol.
4:30 AM came early, truck turned out to be Freightliner with tandem steering axles and a crane mounted on it ,10ft. longer than a regulure tractor with a 5th. wheel on it ,towing about a 35-40 ft. trailer, with a wierd trans shift pattern. Got her figured out, with a little jocking around got into a Hydro sub station ,left a load of pipe and got home for lunch. Not bad for a dark rainy wintery day, even got payed. LOL
They are a good group,did Stanley call and set it up?
No ,I've known Brian T. for many years he must have been really dersperate , I even scored a hat out of him. LOL Brian's a really hard working guy don't see him very often , but always swap a few tales and have a chucle or two when I do. I met him up Nekite River in 1978 he and Nigle were biulding a couple of log bridges for BCFP using the company's D8 Cat tying the logs together with used haulback .
Larry Wheeler and Stanley Grimshaw did work for Brian and now he has an extra man.You will see a few placesyouhave missed in your career.Lol
When you went to Cow Bay Dock,did you see the tracks that are still there from the railway logging in Shawnigan Division?
There are still rail road tracks on the left side as you drive towards the wharves , I thought those were from the CN rail road. I think thats the first time I've been down to Cow Bay docks since I delivered Concrete for Brian when he was repairing the docks , with a Scotts Concrete mixer. Stanley's job is succure I've already got a partime driving job hauling pebbles around town I preffer to stay close to home.
JW WFI Meads Creek
JW WFI Meads Creek
Steve Young has loaned me acouple of pictures of the Bear Cr. tresle during contruction. Malahat Logging Co. mid 1930's 1st picture is a D8 cat being carried across canyon on a skyline ,2nd picture is a trussed section being put in place using a skyline 3th picture is a train load of log's crossing tresle
Those are some impressive pictures of building the trestle. Had no idea that the cable would carry a D-8, that is a load.
JW John Walker Sr, Wood fired Willamit Steam yarder late 1920's Old Hillcrest Duncan B.C.
JW John Walker Sr. 1936 Allis Chalmers tractor 1934 single axle International log truck River Bottom Rd. 1937 Duncan B.C.
JW John Walker Sr. Catapillar"60" logging Old River Bottom Rd. 1932 duncan B.C.
JW John Walker Sr. 1944 Diamond T logging truck on Mt. Prevost 1944-45 Duncan B.C.
JW Early day's Loggers Sports Day Cowichan Valley
Does anybody know where this picture was taken or have a better picture of it . I think it is an old Mack .
J A McKay Logging at Sproat lake Division Truck was/is an LMSWL Mack Was one of the Great Central Lake trucks that became Sproat Lake Division. Truck was converted to a Hayes Cab after the Mack cab fell apart. Sproat had several trucks done this way The cabs were VERY STRANGE because Hayes adapted their cab to the Mack Firewall and front cab assy Thus the very strange windshield arrangement The truck is sitting under a loaded Columbia Preload trailer from one of the 850KW trucks That truck is still around!!!! However it is going to be parted out and I don't have anything to trade for it to save her She was converted over to 46-40 rear ends from the Mack 65,000lb Mack diffs. There lies the problem The diffs are worth money. I will go take some pic's of it before things happen
BC-- Gordon River (WFI ? ) Bob Cook has lent me these pictures . This one is #21 a 1942 Kenworth I presume he was driving it.
BC-- Hearsey Transport Duncan BC Bob Cook getting a load of chips from Hillcrest Lumber Co mill at Mesachie lake with a new 1965 Hayes cab over.
BC--Hearsey Transport Duncan BC A winters day on the Old Lake Cowichan Rd. passing the Summite Mill near Skutz Falls.
BC--An early chip truck in the Cowichan Valley Bob told me who's it was , but it slipped my mind , maybe someone can help me out.
TB-- George Seatons 1939 International log truck with broken axle at Coal Cr. Sooke B.C. Jimmy Neil Passenger side of truck Les Bestwick on load and Bill Neil drivers side , Bill would later on own Neil Contracting with a fleet of off highway logging trucks at Butler Brorthers L ogging Sooke B.C.
Not sure where or how I got this picture could be from internet , Just always thought it was a cool picture . Even think about yarding a machine across any water source today and you would be pretty much off to jail lol
Bob J. Copper Canyon 1959 Howie Valleau broke Bob in driving logging truck on this truck in 1959. Note the wooden reach.
Bob J. Justkatla Q.C.I. 1960
Bob J. Justkatla Q. C. I. 1960 I guess Bob's career moonlighting as a barber didn't work out ,as he went back to his day job as a log truck driver and retired as a log truck driver.
Bob J. Bunk houses at Juskatla 1 960
Bob J. Juskatla 1960 Bob's room is last one on far end, of this row of room's.
Bob J. Juskatla 1960 Camp building's , from right to left (a) Bullcooks store room (b) Wash room (sinks and toilet's) (c) Laundry room (wash tubs ) (d) Cook House.
Bob J. Juskatla 1960 log dump and booming grounds , dump being dredged and picture of camp.
Bob J. Juskatla Q.C.I. veiw of Juskatla Inlet.
Bob J. Juskatla Q.C.I. Bob and friends at camp
Bob J. Juskatla Q.C.I. Booming grounds and Log Barge loading facility at Shannon Bay.
Bob J. Juskatla Q.C.I. Bob standing in the log grapples from the Shannon Bay Log Barge facility at the Port Clements Museum 2011.
Bob J. Juskatla Q.C.I. picture of booming grounds and a grade shovel and cat starting to clear land to up grade Juskatlta Camp.
CAMPTRAMP, you are the BEST!!!! I grew up in Juskatla, so did my Dad. Grandpa was likely running that Northwest shovel and the dredge at the log dump.
Just asking some great friends if they have any pictures ,and if they do would they mind sharing them with us . I'm just great full they took the pictures and they are willing to share. During my camp inspecting days I made a stop at Juskatla in the summer of 1968 . The thing I remember most was the large bunk houses , and they seemed very old , but now I realize they weren't that old . The room I was in ,you couldn't get off your bed without putting your shoes ,on the floor was so badly splintered from guy's warring their calk boots in the rooms.
Bob J. Juskatla Q.C.I. An early Madill tower mounted on an old Logging truck.
Bob J. Juskatla Q.C.I. Bob standing in front of logging truck he drove , Okay HDX whats the low down on this Kenworth.
Bob J. Juskatla Q.C.I. One log two trucks
Bob J. Sarita River 1961 At the gate on the road to Sarita R. past the head of Lake Cowichan, heading back to camp with Louie Holman , couldn't resist Bob's 38-40 F ord pickup or Louie's 57-58 Ford car.
Bob J. Sarita R. 1961 Bob along with Louie Holman , Rich Bennett, and Don Hughes all drove for Braithwaite & Sons at Sarita R.
Bob J. Sarita R. 1961 Bob drove #11 a Seattle Kenworth rigged up as a preloader for Braithwaite & Son.
KW 888, Seattle built. They had a whole bunch in Juskatla. All gone now.
Bob J. Sarita R. 1961 A young Don Hughes standing in front of a shop at Sarita R.
Bob J. Wake mon Sound 1962-1963
Bob J. Wakemon Sound 1962-1963
Bob J. Wakemon Sound 1962-1963 Dump Mac hine and Booming Grounds
Bob J. Wakemon Sound Old Yarder and Heal Boom
camptramp building in post 259 was the "GREASE PIT" building The shop was just to the right out of the picture Man that goes back to a different time for sure
Bob J. Wakmon Sound 1962-1963 A Roy Saunders truck and shop
Bob J. Wakemon Sound 1962-1963 This camp was a Beban Logging camp before M&B took it over Beban Logging is still on the logging truck door . The loading boom has a cracked log , so another log is lashed to it to finish the setting.
Bob J. Wakemon Sound A loader loading with tongs from a wooden tree , stump to dump first four pictures. The last picture looks like loader with a shovel front with an air tong on the end of dipper stick loading from a steel tower.
Bob J. Chemainus 1961, Chemainus Towing " Sara " or "Sara Van " on the Ways
Our friend Toby Hird has arranged for us to borrow some photos of Sooke ,Langford Logger the late George Seaton's , from his family. The first one is Seaton's pole yard ,in Langford it appears to be in the general area of where the Legion is on Station Rd.
George Seaton driving truck James Dern? on top.
George Seaton on Cat building road into Butchard Gardens
George Seaton at Coal Cr. west of Sooke. Second picture 1939 International 1941-44 , third picture rigger Sturdee Arden in rigging up spar tree 1941-44
George Seaton at Muir Creek
George Seaton
George Seaton dumping load at Whiffin Spite , Sooke B.C.
George Seaton's home North Sooke.
George Seaton's Austin pickup at Dunford Rd. Langford where is located ICBC today.
George Seaton and Frank Davies cutting poles at Elders 1946-47
George Seaton at Elders , Sooke B.C. the first Skagit SJ-4 on Vancouver Island 1954.
George Seaton's logging logging truck 1949 Muir Creek Sooke B.C.
More great pictures camptramp, sure enjoy seeing all the old time stuff. A lot of hard physical work to get the job done back then, thanks for sharing with us.
Blk prince
Blk prince
Blk prince
I sure wish some of y'awl had the chance to meet Mr. Finley Hays from Chehalis, WA. He told me he topped and rigged over a thousand trees in his day, and I have no doubt that he did. Look him up in the next life. He'll be glad to meet you, I'm sure.
Les Stewart has loaned us some pictures to share. Here les is taking a tree down in front of his Mom and Dad's home at Union Bay.
Les Stewart moving a 10 x 10 Lawrance Cold Decker across the setting to the next tree ,for Glover Logging at Rosewall
Les Stewart Glover Logging , Rosewall . Les running a 10 x 10 Lawrance yarding in 1960.
Les Stewart Glover Logging
Les Stewart loading a Reo logging truck.
Les Stewart Mangles Logging 1960 running a Loading P ot and driving logging truck . At Gold River B.C.
Les Stewart Mangles Logging , driving logging truck .
Pete Rigby is sharing his logging pictures and some from his father Reg Rigby's collection . The 1st one is an early logging truck having problems , on Koksilah Rd. between the bridge crossing the Kokislah River and the church on Cowichan Station Hill . 1926
Pete Rigby Virgil Brown and Reg Rigby cutting firewood 1929 .
Pete Rigby Looks like a Steam pot pulling its self up Mt. Sicker , note rail road tracks in for ground , 1933
Pete Rigby Jim Cox left , Bill Cox right on hill going down to Fairbridge lower field .
Pete Rigby , on some of Reg Rigby's pictures he wrote what or where they were this one has nothing on it .
Pete Rigby , Fletchers Camp Philips Arm Cat and Arch hauling fuel out to the yarding side .
Pete Rigby , C. Fitch cutting firewood with a drag saw .
On post 296 of the steam donkey, with a drum as big as pictured that might have been for use on an incline as the tracks are far too steep for any locomotive.
Pete Rigby , Fallers with early two man Power Saw .
The area that the picture was taken at was known for a steep narrow gauge railroad , from a Copper Mine .
Pete Rigby , #13 truckat Furry Creek June 1953 , Logs averaged 12,000 feet per load , 10 logs in load .
Pete Rigby
Pete Rigby
Great pictures, need more
These pictures would drive OSHA up the wall! ;-) STUMP KNOCKER
For sure Work Safe B.C. would run out of ink and paper before they left the landing and dump yard.
Pete Rigby , Looks like a log buyer checking out a " Boom of Berries " .
Pete Rigby Norie Bros. Old #5
Pete Rigby Norie Bros. Port Nevil 1966 #9 Mack 16 ft. bunks 16x25 tires V12 Cummins 600 HP
Pete Rigby Norie Bros. Port Nevil 1966
Pete Rigby , Norie Bros. Port Nevil 1966 Barge load of equipment leaving for Sonora Island .
Pete Rigby , Norie Bros. Sonora Island 1969
Pete Rigby Norie Bros. camp Green Sea Bay Sonora Island 1969 .
Could that V12 Mack be one of those that was converted after building the St. Lawrence Seaway?
Pete Rigby Norie Bros.
That is where it came from . I believe it was converted to a logging truck at Copley's shop , on the old Bamberton Haul Rd.
Pete Rigby Norie Bros.
Pete Rigby BCFP Renfrew Div. Upper Harris Creek area early 1960's . Whiskey Jacks raiding an open lunch kit .
Nice view from the office chair!
Bruce W.
Is there a story behind that last photo with all the decked logs?
I don't know where Bruce got these pictures , but I think they were taken in Oregon or Washington State .
Bruce W.
Bruce W.
My dad at Comox Logging in the 30s. I ran it through photo shop to add a bit of colour.
Ran into an old friend , Gerry VanBeers at the Antique Truck Show in Duncan today , passed me an envelope with some old Logging pictures to share . CPS Jordan River .
Rob N. Looking across Somenos Lake at a Saw Mill located South of where The Forest Discovery Center is located today , late 1800's.
Rob N. Not sure what outfit they are , but its Logging on Hill 60 just West of Duncan towards Lake Cowichan .
Rob N. Not sure where these pictures were taken .
Rob N. Hillcrest Lumber Co. Mesachie Lake BC
Rob N. Bridge across Cowichan River in center of the Village of Cowichan Lake .
Rob N. Comox Logging & Railroad Ladysmith 1937 , left to right Bill Solmie , Ed Cooke , Fred Fielding and W.M. Rainforth on Cat at Chemainus BC .
Rob N. Two well known Loggers from the 1930's and 1940's on Vancouver Island .Mauno Pelto and Herman Anderson .
Rob N. , not sure who these fellows are , but I think one of them is Herman Anderson with a crew of lean and ready riggers .
Rob N. Comox Logging 1923 Rigger Herman Anderson working in the rigging of a wooden Spar Tree and standing atop the Spar Tree . Any fans of actress Pamela Anderson of "Bay Watch" fame out there ? Pamela is from Ladysmith BC and is the Grand Daughter of Herman Anderson , I guess we know where her showman ship comes from .
Rob N. Hillcrest Lumber Co. Mesachie Lake BC
Absolutely amazing no doubt. Carry on!
....back in the day..."When THE MEN wurr MEN!" And the Women were Men Too!"
Anyone know what brand this crawler is. I can not quite make it out on the side of the radiator. I would like to see more of the logging arch. Great pictures. Thanks for posting them.
Cat RD8 with added engine guards?
same again http://searcharchives.vancouver.ca/...e8f0f6-7757-49e9-8f72-8d0ce962b6dd-A31953.jpg
You can see that in the earlier picture the track guards had been ripped off - no wonder when you look at the terrain the machine is working in!! You can also see the RD8 on the radiator top. This machine would have been a significant advance in terms of productivity. Also note the lack of any ROPs
More Mods
Rob N. This one was taken way before my time .
Rob N. Chemainus Lumber Co. 1903 , A Spool Donkey at Camp 6 , - 12 miles up Mainline from Chemainus , 6 to 8 miles above Miller Cr.
Rob N. 1st picture is on the West side of Shawnigan Lake in an area known as the McGee Swamp 1901 . 2nd and 3rd pictures take around West Arm of Shawnigan Lake 1902 , 2nd picture HE Hawking standing in door way (Fireman) , Bob Sproule behind (Engineer) .
Thank you Inter674. The "forestry Package" threw me off. I to was looking at the open station with wonderment. The link is a great photo. Worthy of being on a wall in the man cave.
Rob N. Lake Logging , Rounds Camp along head waters of Gordon River mid late 1930's . 1st picture Rounds Camp . 2nd picture the crew boarding old E&N coaches for ride to woods . 3rd picture Climax Locie leaving camp pulling crew coaches . 4th picture is crew heading for the cook house and Willamette No. 3 with log train .
Rob N. Lake Logging Rounds Camp .
Rob N. Lake Logging , Rounds Camp . Posting these pictures brings back a lot of memories , when I first started driving Off Highway Logging Truck at BCFP Renfrew Div. in Spring 1980 , we were hauling logs from Renfrew Div. to Caycuse Div. DLS to supply the Youbou Saw Mill with logs . The Rail Road tracks between the building's in these pictures had become a Truck Road , the camp was long gone but I remember snow on the ground with old angle iron bed frames appearing as the snow melted , also a set of rail road wheels on axle's ( they weren't very heavy as I dragged them up on the road with my pick up one weekend and loaded them in the pick up by my self , I could pick up one end at a time , they are now lawn ornament's ) as Spring arrived there were Daffodil's blooming around some of the house foundation's . It has since been relogged , all sign of the old Rounds Camp has been destroyed
Rob N. Lake Logging , Rounds Camp , Evacuation of Rounds Camp , under threat of Forest Fire July 1945 .
Rob N. Lake Logging , Rounds Camp , the Forest Fire burning in the "Glory Hole" and the aftermath of the fire in the "Glory Hole" 1939.
Rob N. An aerial view of WFI's , Honeymoon Bay , Saw Mill town .
Rob N. WFI Honeymoon Bay Log Dump.
Rob N. WFI Meades Cr. Camp moving Steam Skidder . Source - Gordon Dodds.
. Camptramp I enjoy your posts from way back,really good photos you got hold of, thanks for the time you put in doing it! Last pic shows the difference in size of the two trucks. My father was owner of the 1946 Canadaford in my pic, we thought it was a big truck back then......I guess your pic is from around -46?
My guess was a 1946 Kenworth hauling the steam skidder from the look of the cab and radiator shell. Thanks for the great older photos.
Picture in post 357 The Kenworth being dumped. Sure looks like the Kenworth that Garth McLean had down there somewhere Does anybody know what ever became of him or the truck His truck was the last one I saw with the 2x12 plank bolted to the top of the center of the hood. Seeing that picture the truck looked the same
Rob N. Logs being loaded out of Lake Cowichan on to Rail Cars at the Weir , 1928 .
Rob N. Towing float house's on Lake Cowichan .
Rob N. Gate way to Lake Cowichan , Basil Keir Stage driver .
Rob N. Road into Lake Cowichan .
Rob N. Main road to Duncan from Lake Cowichan's Riverside Inn , Governments first holiday 1910 .
Rob N. Victoria Lumber & Manufacturing Company , Camp 8 on south shore of Lake Cowichan , 1937 , unloading or moving giant Willamette Skidder . Steam Skidder's operating during the 1930's and 1940's used skylines 2 inches in diameter and 2500 feet long . These were threaded through huge Carriages , Jacks and Blocks .
Rob N. Victoria Lumber & Manufacturing Camp 10 1937 , not sure but I think this camp was located near where the Lens Cr. M/L leaves the paved road leading from Mesachie Lake to Port Renfrew .
Rob N. Queen Charlotte Island's , Cec Gilchrist 1920's .
Rob N. Queen Charlotte Island's 1920 .
Love the old time pictures, thanks Camp Tramp for taking time to share them with us. Some neat old trucks, running on a wood road, track.
Great pictures camptramp. Love the way they tilt the truck to use gravity to help unload.
Rob N. Queen Charlotte Islands 1920's , When I scanned these pictures I was wondering why I couldn't see the Yarder , then I realized the Loading Boom was rigged with a Stump , roots and all for a Counter Weight .
Rob N. Queen Charlotte Islands , 1920's
Rob N. Queen Charlotte Island's , 1920's , The QCI's have some fairly swampy area's , I would guess that at time these pictures were taken building "Plank Roads" also known as "Fore and Aft Roads" was the easiest and cheapest way to get the Timber to the "Salt Chuck". When I first started in the woods in 1966 , the Yarding Engineer was Sid "Skidder" Smith . We had a mid size school bus for a "Crummy" , Sid should have written a book , before we got out of the crummy to go to work in the AM , and at lunch time he would entertain us with tales of his past adventures in the logging camps he had worked in . I remember well his tales of working at Port McNeill for the Pioneer Timber Co. in the mid 1940's . They had "Plank Roads" there and how a fellow by the name of Archie McCone had figured out a "Turn Table" that turned the Trucks around at the Log Dump and in the Woods .
Rob N. Queen Charlotte Islands 1920's , Looks like they are yarding logs with a Skyline , across a setting , then across a lake .
Camptramp for Presidente! :thumbsup:
Presidente Camptramp, wife will make cupcakes with flags for our leader so he will be #1. First thing every morning I check in here before a coffee even.
Shameless photograph of our Fearless Leader, El Presidente.
Sorry to disappoint you but I'm currently out of pictures , but I do have some leads , we will see what tomorrow brings . Politics , I graciously decline , with thanks.
Presidente Camptramp, your the best thing to come , since they invented sliced bread. You make every ones morning much better with your pictures and information. Watch out Trump
Off topic, but speaking of unconventional rock stars.... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tz95O1OQCH0
Have received some pictures from Al Lundgren to share . Al was a long time Faller in Cowichan area . Al put an honest days work on his power saw , always a good Union Man standing up for good working conditions for the crew . But his biggest passion was for a Safe Working environment and Safe Work habits , which he passed along to his fellow workers at BCFP Renfrew Divison , later Timberwest HBO and the Forest Industry as a whole . 1924 Looking across Lake Cowichan , towards Shaw Cr. Valley . Note the 1907 Hurricane blow down on the left.
Al L. 1924 Matt Hemmingson's Camp on Lake Cowichan , just West of where Caycuse Camp is today.
Al L. 1930's Loggers arriving at up coast camp past Menzies Bay (photo dated) Union Steam Ship Colouson (sp)
Al L. 1942 Hugo Lundgren and Alban Anderson falling Spruce for War effort .
Al L. 1948 Fallers in snow moving camp off Hill 60 ( Cowichan Valley ) after falling "Snags" in Winter .
Al L. Fallers at Menzies Bay swinging a 120 lb 2 man saw to other side of tree to start Back Cut ,one strong man !
Cathel & Soranson Port Renfrew derrick for making "Davis Rafts"
Malahat Logging Port Renfrew B.C. building "Davis Rafts"
Barge load of rail road Skeleton Cars from BCFP's Port Renfrew logging rail road being barged to Canadian Forest Products .
Malahat Logging Port Renfrew B C , Moving Buildings that would make up Bear Creek Camp on rail cars . Most of these building came from a logging camp located between Sooke and Jordan River near Point no Point .
Malahat Logging , building the Bear Creek Trestle , looks like their building one of the Truss .
old yarder here is unit #2 Aero Camp QCI from rail mount to tow set of shovel tracks. 1961 Ted Lloyd collection
Good to see you back, GW.
If you have a few minutes go to "Museum at Campbell River /Photo Gallery/Old Logging Photos"
Camptramp, The 2nd photo of the wooden road, it would take a man that wasn't afraid of nothing to drive that road with a load of logs. Like a small frost in the morning. Great photos your posting. Thanks to your friends for letting you share their photos. It blows my mind of the amount of photos that workers took in that era. Also noticed the lack of over weight workers. Just lanky MEN.
Camptramp, I think a few of these pics are taken at the Stillwater dump and sorting grounds, Brooks Scanlon, OBrian railway
Those old pics make the hair on the back of my neck stand up. No hard hats, no personal flotation, all those snags left standing in the settings, almost no guards or protection on the machinery and on and on. It would have been a real crap shoot whether you even came home at night. You'd sure have to have your wits about you to see payday. d.d.
I had a look at some old photos and that is the dump at Stillwater, you can see the old Gordon Pasha Hotel in the background and that would be the Eagle River and Northern Railway line, they operated for 46 years here.
Good eye there Rodger, thought that looked familiar! This photo shows a bit more, taken after some time after the big fire (1923?)
One of our houses was just above the locie shop in the first picture
Here is after the train left (1955) of Stillwater and switched to trucking. Our old family home is in the second photo on the right
On 415 first pic is Brooks Scanlon O'Brien's camp at Spring Lake, this camp burnt when the big fire went through in the mid 20's. walk through the remains with my dad many times, could see were the cookhouse was from the stoves, and there was a big pile of cross cut saws that would have been the filing shed. Great photos Al, a few here of the Stillwater logging operations.
Yair . . . No chance of track sag on what is it? A Cletrac? Cheers.
If your referring to the 5th picture , he looks like he's just finished shaping the Runners for a Donkey Sled .
Yair . . . camptramp I was commenting on post #416 . . . four support/carrier rollers on that crawler tractor. Cheers.
The Crawler Tractor in post # 416 is a Holt 10 Ton, didn,t know that there were some in B.C. This is a first for me, Thanks Camptramp for all the great pictures, Ken
Yair . . . Gotcha bccat. How right you are, they certainly had a bug about track sag, I see some versions even had five top rollers. Cheers.
Liked the picture of the "Bulldog" Mack converted to run on log "rails"!
I agree.....great picture and just fricken nuts
Great pictures. Surely that Cat Sixty is not being hooked up to that giant tree!
3rd picture is Union Steam Ship SS Cardena passing "Ripple Rock" in Johnstone Straits
camptramp First picture in post 438 is a very nice side shot of one of those 1940 Hayes loggers as well as the first picture in post 439 Also a Hayes 1941 model. You can see how the cab has changed and began the start of the new era of Hayes Cabs This style cab would be used up to late 1947 then in 1948 the cab went to the flat back cab that was the early version of what stayed till the end of production.
Must have been a very interesting yet dangerous time....nice stuff
camptramp, these little windows into a past time are Magic, I find myself looking at the photos then going in for a second time to look at them all again, usually ending up lost in this thread for way to long, so it has to be good stuff and what a record of Forest Life, so thank you Sir for you effort it's first rate. tctractors
I to would like to thank camptramp and all the others for these great threads! First thing in the morning, before newspaper i have to check for new posts. Guess my first hooktender Rich Anderson from Summerland was right when he said to me: Once you get these boots( caulk boots) on you never get them off, at least not in my brain. Thanks! Sigurd
Wonderful pictures, particularly those of the bridge construction central truss members.
You said just what I was thinking, so enjoyable to see some of how it was done back then. Quite resourceful building and doing work mostly by hand and with steam power when available.
In #138 4th pic is of the cable powered "walking dudly" steam engine from the McNair Fraser logging in West Vancouver, remember my gramps telling me stories of logging the area, one of when the cable broke and it ended up in the drink. if you google walking dudly there is more photos and info.
In post # 448, the first picture, of the automobile, off the tracks; is quite interesting. We have looked at it, and it appears to be a 1928 Hudson. Definitely Hudson, and 1928 seems to be correct. The logging pioneers, were quite resourceful, in the machinery they used. old1
CT That Jammer in the first picture looks like a Hayes. do you know if it is?
These pictures are great. I can only guess at the amount of work it took to build those plank roads and I guess there were not a lot of trucks, because turnouts would be even more fun. I suppose in swampy ground the plank roads were a good solution, but this picture would not seem to have that problem. I wonder if they took up the planks to reuse them on a new road? The last photo is interesting. At first I thought it was a McGifford being used to load trucks, but comparing it with the image a bit up the page shows they are quite different and of course it is not on rails. Too bad we cannot see more of it to determine who's product it might have been.
It is my understanding that some of the later McGiffert loaders had a 45 degree swing, and also mechanized gear to jack the whole machine up straddling the rail, so it could be blocked in place.
The pics of the axe but timbers those boys weren't pulling any punches swinging them axes. Those chips look like roofing shingles.
I have my grandfather's new falling ax, unlike axes you see today, the head is only 3-31/2 inches wide and long, about 12-14 inches in length. The handle is a little over 48 inches for reaching into the stump. I have seen some with 60 inch handles. He sharpened his so he could work either left or right handed. I know there were other techniques for sharpening, some made sense, some didn't. His old ax is only about 10 inches in length instead of 12-14. Shows how much they used the ax. The new ax is about 70 years old. The old one? Who knows. he started falling timber on the Satsop in 1912. He could pull a chip better than 12 inches when I was young and he was in his late 60s.
Jumbo you have to be quite proud to have your grandfather's falling axes. I had never seen one but makes sense to be made that way when you are working in big timber. Thanks fro sharing.
That looks like quite a railroad trestle in the picture. A lot of man hours went into building that, is it still standing?
Thanks for posting Camptramp! I just spent 3 hours in fascination looking over those pictures. This thread really gives us reason to be proud of our ancestors. I had never seen pics of round log tracks for log trucks. That was really amazing. Especially the spans and loads.
....i know there's alot of young folks here. ... ....did you know the motor car and airplane (and the bicycle? ) ...were invented about the same time?
Most of the old trestles in the American PNW were dynamited due to liability concerns. I would imagine the same is true for Canada. If that trestle were in fact left standing, there would probably not be much left of it by now.
I know that a lot of the wooden trestles in the area of the Tillamook Burns in NW Oregon (three separate fires) were destroyed or partially so. I remember as a boy driving to the Pacific coast from Portland, Oregon, the remains were quite visible since the last fire left miles of forest destroyed. After the fires did so much damage, logging was resumed by trucks rather than try to rebuild miles of RR lines and trestles, some of which were pretty impressive. The last time I drove down the Wilson River hwy to the coast, was about ten years ago and I could not see a single remnant, probably due to time and the extensive timber growth everywhere.
This thread peaked my curiosity so I searched "early logging images". I don't know anything about the pics, just posting for entertainment.
...And a few more.
That would of made for a long day in Terrace hauling those poles.
I am really enjoying these old pictures, thanks for all those able to share. Times have certainly changed!
I am not paying attention no doubt but are those buildings in post #511 barracks with a chow hall or is the cooking done in each building and does a family live in each building or how do they handle that?Thanks again for all these wonderful pics,one could spend forever looking at them.Ron G
Sometimes it seems that so much of the wood cut was used to build roads, trestles, and camps there was not much left to be sold!
I doubt that families were housed in those camps at all. Employees only. Earlier in this thread were mess hall pics and there were no women or children.
Most Logging Camps of that era would have a main Cook House with Dinning area close to a group of Bunk Houses surrounding or along side a central Wash House , most often connected by Plank Walk ways . Some Camps were set up to be easily moved to keep crews close to work area . Some Camps were more centrally located in a larger stands of Timber and were more permanent and would have an area away from Bunk Houses where Married Quarters houses would be set up for " Staff and Key Employee's ". If you look at #511 you can pick out the Bunk Houses in center behind large buildings the Cook House is the large building off to the right . To the far right is the Houses of the Married Quarters along the hill above the RR tracks . The Bridges and Trestles would be built with the best of materials ( some larger camps had their own Saw Mill to cut Planks & Timbers ) , but the logs they used for Cribbing to cross hollows and shore up side hills would be low grade logs that would have been left in the woods in that era of logging . A lot of the Ties and materials would be reused when an active logging area was logged out and tracks pulled up to be laid down in new logging area's , Main line RR tracks would be better built and maintained .
shared photos Well it took me over a year but I was able to get some photos from my neighbours mother, who's father was a logger on the Island, think she said from Nanaimo possibly. they show a mix of train and truck and his buddies on the job, glad he had a camera and that I can share these. ( no hard hats or wcb to worry about for photo ops)
few more Moving the donkey. In one of the photos on the truck door it says MAYO LMB CO. 1943 LTD. does anyone know more about them?
Great Pictures Greatwestcam Mayo Lumber was a Logging & Sawmill Empire built by East Indian enterpreneur Mayo Singh . Based out of Paldi in the Cowichan Valley .
Happy New Year To All & All the Best For 2016
camptramp, thanks for the info on Mayo. enjoying these old time photos greatly. And to all the other forum members Best wish's for the New Year.
Great western,I remember a few things about Mayo Lumber. The family Mayo were from Paldi,between Duncan and Lake Cowichan. They had a good size sawmill on the end of Spruston Road and logs came from MacKay Lake area.I do not know who did the logging. Then they moved into Nanaimo and built a new mill. Here it is a bit fuzzy. I think they built on Haliburton Street on the site of the present day Coastland Mill. They also had a large office building on the top side of Haliburton Street just off the highway as you first enter Nanaimo. Also the last sawmill still sitting on Nanaimo waterfront was always referred to as a Mayo mill but it was the site if a Dorman Mill. Best I can do for now j Happy New Year.
Trainman, here's some of the pictures I told you about.
Pretty interesting pictures of the Locomotives HDX the Davenport engines is only 30 miles from where I live. I sure never knew that they built engines there. There is a large locomotive engine rebuild shop in Milan, Illinois they always have a lot of engines waiting there for a complete rebuild and paint job.
Now that's how I did it when I was a kid.Crosscut saw.You just hope the guy on the other end ain't riding.We couldn't leave that much stump though.Ron G
Could this be an early attempt at a preload set up? the ramps under each bunk looks like they were trying something like that.
Archie McKone's preload system .Detachable bunks he patented it and sold it to 26 logging firms.. You will find information on it in the book LOGGING British Columbia's Logging History, by Wilmar Gold
What brand of truck is that in the last picture? It has some pretty nice lines for a logging truck.
I was staring at that pic as well....I am going to say that is a Diamond T....roughly 47 vintage.Mine is 11 years older but very similar.
Agree - looks like a Diamond T to me also.
Post #542 picture#4 is a Hayes and #5 is a Diamond T looks like 614 model. Post #543 pic#1 is a Hayes
Camptramp.you will go down in history as a legend.What an effort to collect all these pics and post them to share with all the old gearheads like me to savour. My family always had one or more sawmills on the east coast of the USA so I have it in my blood too but nothing on the scale that I see here.I also worked in another sawmill in town here as a kid but it as still in my system and I for one want to thank you,I try not to miss these threads.When I say "here" I mean the east coast,I live in Connecticut now but I grew up in Maine.I mover here after I got out of the army and got married.Two mistakes,three probably.Ron G
camptramp, Thank you! That is the most remarkable collection of logging pictures that I've seen; pictures of just about every thing! That is a testament to the industry and the ingenuity of the men in the forest. Thanks, again, for posting them.
Check third picture , Log is lifted off ground with "L HOOKS" . I worked with an old timer down at Sooke in the mid 1970's Ray Shambrook who had some great stories , one of them was when he was loading with "L HOOKS" at Elder Logging . He let go of his "L HOOK" at the wrong time and it ended up swinging into the logging truck's windshield .
Is there ever any info along with any of these pictures Al? Sure some interesting stuff but it would be even more interesting if we knew the when, where, and why.
These are pictures I found on the Internet , not much Information with them .
Too bad no locations given, as that big steam powered yarder/loading machine looks a lot like the rusting hulk up in Copper Canyon. Still, I suppose a lot of them looked like that "back in the day".
Not sure if that if the "Old Yarder" left in Copper Canyon is a Duplex , Loader , Skidder or not , but the Machine in posting # 566 is a VL&M Co. Machine . VL&M Co. was the forerunner of M & B , that operated in the Chemainus area in the 1930's . Could be the same one.
Very early and basic preloading with a logging truck .
Nice pictures...Looks like a good size Diamond T...
Moving the donkey
Another early "Preload" set up.
The pictures are fantastic....what a time it must have been
Raising a spar tree using winch on an old truck (early line horse) notice the circle "F" on door, that's the "Timber Mark" on Comox Logging's Private lands . Still used today by Timberwest Forest , now the owners of those holdings. I believe it started out as the Timber Stamp for the Canadian Western Lumber Co. in the Comox Valley .
Was that an "International" in post #577?Ron G
Very interesting photos. I have never seen a pre-load setup like you have posted, nor a truck loaded with all the logs at one time. Was this something tried by just this one logging company, or fairly common in early years? I guess the pre-load trailers that came along later were just an evolutionary step and obviously more flexible. It does seem a bit dangerous to be lifting an entire load over the truck and trailer at one time.
One thing about the logging industry, if someone had an idea there was someone able to build it. In hopes that it would work and make life easier, and mostly make things go faster. Got to hand to the guys who came up with the idea, and for sure the fellows in the shop who were able to design and build the idea.
Post 587,everything in these pictures fits perfectly to the design of Comox Logging dump on Ladysmith before the railway was laid down
Sure does.d.d.
Don't get to see many two horse power log loaders. The hours it took to build a wood road, or a flume to get logs to where they could be loaded. Sure some enjoyable photos of the years gone by!
I never thought that I would see a Ford doing that duty in that area.That is something that we used to use back in Maine where I grew up.Here is a pic of my dad back in the day.The caption that he put on that pic was you will never see a jackass between two horses.Ron G
5th picture is a Coastal Freighter possibly a Union Steam Ship dropping off passengers and/or freight at a Coastal Community .
3rd picture is taken at Port Renfrew . Malahat Logging's Rail Road Dump on South side of San Juan Bay . Machine on pier is building a Davis Raft .
Some of My Dad's photo's taken at Wacash Creek Knights Inlet, Lemon Point Logging. Him and his brother were doing the hauling as well as the road building, road maintenance, mechanics and filling in on machinery as needed.
Welcome to the site and thank you for the pics.Ron G
Great pictures Timbertramp , hope you have more . What year , around 1960 ?
Question for anyone. This thread was started by hurn 13 but there has not been any sign of him (or her) since 2011. Does anyone have any info on this person?
Lemon Point Logging was at Wakash Creek from about 1962 to about 1966 when they moved over to Fleshers old camp site at Phillips Arm for BCFP. Here are a couple of photo's of Dad falling the right of way for the mainline.
Here are some more pictures of Lemon Point logging scenes this time at Phillips Arm at the Fleshers old camp on the river.
The falling photo's are of Pete Peterson one of the three partners of Pace contracting, the three partners were also the original owners of C&L Supply at Campbell River
Timbertramp do you know what make of winch was on Yarder on sled in posting #618 . The strawlime drum is on operator's side of winch or is that the "pass line " drum ?
I phoned Dad this morning and he said it was a Skagit BX22, double bull gears on the haul back and main line drums, dual brakes on the haul back drum and an air brake assist on the main line drum. the straw line drum is the one you can see and the pass line drum was on the other side. One other detail , if you look at the picture of Babe Poirre the operator where he is clowning about, at the back of the donkeys roof you will see a 45 gal drum mounted, Dad said because they had a lot of very steep ground in there he rigged up the drum with a water line going to the haulback brakes to keep them cool. On every trip back to the landing he would fill the drum up from the logging truck water tank. Dad has an amazing memory for all the details of the various pieces of equipment has he maintained over the years including the improvements he made to the equipment going right back to when he served his mechanics apprenticeship when he was 15 and he is now in his mid 80's. also the Insley loader that Dave Walker was running there was brand new when it went in to Wakash Creek.
Thanks Timbertramp , I would be uncomfortable with the Strawline drum in front of me , if the strawline ever broke the operator is very vulnerable . I seen the water drum on the yarder roof , been there done it . Was the loader operator Dave Walker from Duncan ? I noticed there was no garding on the side windows of Loader & Yarder , that would be regulated by WCB around 1966-67 . Did Norie Brothers follow your Dads outfit at Phillip's Arm ?
3rd picture is a very early "Log Barge" an old Ships Hull gutted .
3rd picture is a very early "Log Barge" an old Ships Hull gutted Do you know if that is one of the Gibson brothers log barges? Timbertramp
Here are a few more pictures from Wahkash Creek, first is Dad drilling an anchor hole at the booming ground with a gas powered drill.. This is the supply boat bringing in groceries ect. which were loaded on a raft and towed to the beach for unloading This was the entertainment center for the crew in those days, a bit different from today's Netflix and internet generation, that's Dave Walker and another fellow playing horse shoes. now a days this generation of loggers would probably stay home if camp was like that. You could not even get a radio to work in a lot of those places back than and the lighting plant was usually shut off at 9 oclock I still remember how shocked I was when I hit the first camp that keep the generator running all night. I also remember in a few of the old school camps the flunky showed you your chair in the cook house and if you sat in another one you ran the risk of being banned from the cook house which meant you no longer had a job, and in some place you were even told to eat and don't talk at meals.
Blk prince PM 'ed me to try to explain what a Duplex Loader was , they were gone long before I started in the woods if I'm wrong please correct me . As far as I know a Duplex Loader was used on the Rail Road Logging Shows and was Steam Powered . A Duplex Loader could be mounted on a Sled or Mounted on Rail Road Trucks , usually on the front of the same frame as a Skyline Yarder ( Slackline or Skidder) call a " Unit" . A Duplex Loader used two loading Tong lines , threaded through Blocks hanging from the "Buckle Guylines" of Spar Tree spotted over center of Rail Road Tracks . The Duplex Loader used two drums that could be reversed , one loader would take a set of Tongs and set them on the closest end of chosen log , the operator would go ahead on that Tong Line pulling the log closer to Track Side , the second loader would take the second set of Tongs and Set them on the other end of log . When the operator went a head on second Tong Line , the log would be hanging above the rail car when lowered log would be on rail car , retired Rigger , Woods Foreman Bob Norcross tells me Rail Road Tracks were laid lower on one side so logs would roll to Cheese Blocks on one side . The 1st two pictures shows rigger Al Norman of Caycuse Hanging the Tong Line Block on a Buckle Guyline . 3rd , 4th , 5th pictures show Tongs hanging from Buckle Guylines .
These picture show log being lifted with one Tong Line , then lifted over Rail Road Tracks with second Tong Line above Rail Car
These pictures show log on Rail Car . Packing Tongs on a Duplex Loader was hard and dangerous work , there were at lest two sets of loaders , loading 2 or 3 loads then taking a break , while the second set of loader went to work . I'm also told the Steam driven Duplex Loader was very powerful and fast , a good operator was very much in demand . When I started working in the woods there were a few old timers round that were partly crippled or their legs were worn out , it was pointed out to me that they had been injured or their legs worn out from loading on Duplex Loaders in their youth .
These are Machines I think are Duplex Loaders .
some more borrowed pics
This is some 8 mm. home video footage taken by Dennis Wilson of Campbell River who spent many years working for Norie Brothers at many locations. this footage was taken at Saltsring Island and Redonda Island in the late 50s and mid 60s. This was posted with Dennis's permission and I will be stopping by his house soon for a visit with him and he will give me all the details which I will than post here. for now though the footage of the wooden spar tree being rigged up was performed by Phil Whitaker from Duncan, a very well know high rigger of his day. Hope you all enjoy this and just in case the link That I post doesn't work it can be access via YouTube through this address , and the address for part 2 is in the text below part 1. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RVG3agzprCs&feature=youtu.be [video=youtube;RVG3agzprCs]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RVG3agzprCs&feature=youtu.be[/video]
And part 2. [video=youtube;Gfu7fvGkxpA]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gfu7fvGkxpA[/video]
Great Video's Timbertramp , I've seen the first one before , but that was the first time I've seen second one , didn't realize it was Norrie Brothers . I'll E-mail Chris & Peg to get them to look at them . Thanks for posting them.
Excellent footage Timbertramp,back when men were men.Thanks,Ron G
Your most welcome guys, I do have to mention though that the person who really deserves the credit for the films is Dennis Wilson, I know from all my years on the hill that packing camera gear and keeping it safe is a real task because of rough terrain and ever changing weather.conditions. And I know from personal experience that not all Pushes and bullbuckers were happy to see you filming instead of getting maximum production ha ha. The latter reason is why I have very few pictures of all the places I logged and fell contract timber on the coast, the old "don't run, just fly" attitude, I am sure you remember that attitude from your time on the hill Camptramp. Here are a couple of me on Nootka Island in the early 90's teaching a spruce tree a lesson, first cut 21 ft. 4 x 41 ft. cuts and a top, and if my memory is correct The top had been blown off.
Sure fun to see how they got it done with lots of hard work and elbow grease.
I remember one of "Skidder Smiths" favourite lines , When the Rigging comes back , You don't have to Crawl into the Turn , You don't have to Walk , You don't have to Run , "FLY You B------S FLY" . When the "Rigging " came back and the Rigging Crew (usually a Rigging Slinger & 2 Chokermen ) climbed through the Brush & along Logs to untangle the Chokers then "Set the Chokers" if you were the last person into the Turn & the last person out of the Turn , you were considered to be dragging your Butt , and would get a pep talk from the Hook Tender . An Old Donkey Puncher ( Roy Lenfesty) I worked with at BCFP Malibu Div. in 1976 -77 use to tell us Tales from the 1930's . When he worked on the Rigging in the 1930's, if you were last into the turn & last out , the Hook Tender would have a word with you , if that didn't motivate you or he didn't like your answer , you were Fired .
. A pic from Canadian Forest Industries magazine 1970 that i took(sorry Pat) Jeune landing
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1st picture Have a look at "Bite" of line going through "Moving Block" on end of "Butt Rigging" looks like it could be a "North Bend" Skyline system .
Look at those rear view mirrors,no sideboards?Ron G
"Oh ya". "When I was your age" I had to walk to school and it was 5 miles, uphill both ways. And when I got there I had to build the school.
Bill Elliott , Harrison Logging , Port Renfrew B.C. , 1941 International Logging Truck driver Frank Elliott .
Bill Elliott , Harrison Logging , Port Renfrew B.C.
Bill Elliott 1st picture an old logging camp in Port Renfrew area not sure who's . 2nd & 3rd picture an Willamette Skidder .
Some more video footage from the Dennis Wilson archives,filming was done by Dennis's brother Burt, logging out of Campbell River area, Elk Bay and Port Neville . When I was a teenager in the early 70's I chased and pulled rigging on the Madill in the video a few times as the Nories still used it at that time. [video=youtube;UJMKIqhfo5c]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UJMKIqhfo5c[/video]
A slide show from the Dennis Wilson archives of more Norie Brothers Logging action. [video=youtube;02dT7NvphTc]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=02dT7NvphTc&feature=youtu.be[/video]
1st picture Cowichan Lake E & N Rail Road Station . 2nd , 3rd & 4th pictures Chemainus Saw Mill .
2nd - 5th Pictures taken in Terrace area .
What is the last picture in post #685?There sure was a lot of work building it.Ron G
I think its a log flume .
I thought it was a sluice of some sort but seeing the lake down hill from it I wondered how they got the water up there.Thanks.Ron G
By way off Bill Elliott we have some pictures taken by the late Loyd Thompson a long time Logging Truck Driver for BCFP Renfrew Div. , thanks to his son Russell Thompson . I believe these pictures were taken at Juskatla on the Queen Charlotte Islands . I remember Loyd telling me about going up to drive a Gravel Truck at Kelly Logging , one day they needed a Logging Truck Driver , so they put Loyd in a Logging Truck and sent him out to the woods , I recall him telling me he had to get one of the Guy's on the Loading Crew to show him how to do up the Glad Hands .
What brand are the dump trucks in last pic in post 675,and all of 676 and 677. They look like early GMCs in some shots, Macks in other ones. What might those be? Just curious.
Someone smarter than me passed on some information. They are Canadian built Leyland "Bison".
Russell Thompson (Loyd Thompson) Juskatla QCI Kelly Logging .
I thought that they looked enough like a Diamond T to be a product of them but maybe not.I was taught to spit on the gladhand grommets and they would never leak,I always did and they never did.Ron G
Do a Google search for "Canadian Leyland Bison" and check out the images. Not a lot of info but some.
Wow!!I got over 100 pics of everything,Ford,Dodge,FWD,Harley,Mercedes,Jaguar,GMC and Chevy and all those airplanes and on and on.......thanks,impressive.Ron G
Ron G,I still do.
Russell Thompson (Loyd Thompson) Kelly Logging QCI .
Russell Thompson (Loyd Thompson) I believe these pictures were taken in the Hope area at an operation known as the "Silver Skagit"
Russell Thompson (Loyd Thompson) Silver Skagit .
"Silver Skagit" was the logging or the Skagit River behind Ross Dam. Decco-Walton was the logging company, they were formed in 1945. The timber was cut then floated up stream to BC (where I don't know.) I have seen other photos of the operation in the museum at Newhalem. I have never seen these. The photos of the off highway trucks show some monstrous loads. All with "Seattle" stakes or cheese blocks. There was a lot of tree length hauling from the photos I have seen. Not "tree" length but TREE length. If I remember correctly the story at the museum, the timber was transported (again how, I do not know) to the salt chuck and floated down to Bellingham. It was quite the operation for it’s era.
Thanks Jumbo years ago I hear of the "Silver Skagit" , other than knowing it was in the Hope B.C. area , and it had something to do with the Skagit River and Ross Dam I have little Knowledge of it . Do you know when the project was finished .
Russell Thompson (Loyd Thompson) Silver Skagit
Russell Thompson (Loyd Thompson) Silver Skagit .
The dam was completed in 1949, I understand they shipped logs right up to the dam completion as the logs up near the high water line did not float until then. I do not know this for a fact though. I doubt the operation was complete before 1948 though.
Russell Thompson (Loyd Thompson) "Silver Skagit"
Russell Thompson (Loyd Thompson) Silver Skagit
Russell Thompson (Loyd Thompson) Silver Skagit
Russell Thompson (Loyd Thompson) Silver Skagit Logging
Russell Thompson (Loyd Thompson) , Silver Skagit Logging .
Russell Thompson (Loyd Thompson) Silver Skagit Logging
Russell Thompson (Loyd Thompson) Silver Skagit Logging .
Russell Thompson (Loyd Thompson) Silver Skagit Logging .
Russell Thompson (Loyd Thompson) , Not sure where these pictures were taken . Trackloader if your out there would you keep an eye on them and let us know if the landscape looks like Juskatla QCI .
Russell Thompson (Loyd Thompson)
Russell Thompson (Loyd Thompson)
Does Andy Craig ring any bells???
It does with me...Andy was a friend of my dads...Also the owner of a well known Indiana truck...
Bill Elliott loaned us these pictures but I'm not sure where they were taken .
Bill Elliott
Bill Elliott
Bill Elliott
I believe these Falling & Bucking pictures were taken in the Cowichan Lake area .
Manufacturer of Vivian Diesel Engines Van couver B.C.
Vivian Diesel Engines .
Now that's a REAL engine! Anytime you have to use a overhead hoist to pick up a piston assembly and stand on a scaffold attached to the side of the engine block to assemble an engine you are talking a real diesel! Just a shame to think of all those machine tools today.
Thanks Camptramp. For the pics of the vivian diesels, VVI Diesel school in Vancouver had one for teaching purposes, which I attended in 1969.There were 2 in Pemberton which were taken to Chilliwack for display don,t know what happened to them, or all the diesel engines at VVI on Pender Street in Vancouver brings alot of memories back, thanks again
The stinger man in that picture is holding something that looks almost as big as a powerhead. The ones I have seen are much smaller than that. Any more detailed pictures available of what that is?
Thank you Birken for asking the right questions,it will be interesting to hear the answer to that.Ron G
The photo of the large radial arm drill is reversed if you look at the number four on the machine, possibly a Carlton, but could be several others. The Machine with two heads is a planer and a pretty big one. Sadly machines like these are largely part of our industrial past, when we had heavy industry. Most of these machines have been scrapped because when they become available it costs so much to move them they get no buyers other than scrappy and we all know how we feel about those folks. It is sad, but they become functionally obsolete. Designed to last for years, you have to have work for them or the floor space needs to go to another machine that makes money for the shop.
I noticed the left handed radial arm drill.We have one at work very similar and about the same size.It is used every day and is almost maintenance free other than the odd oil leak..Good old machine..My drill press at home is a late 30's cast Iron "Canadian" (much smaller tho)
Those old machines were built to last and with a minimum of maintenance. The double headed planer even has pendant controls, saving time for setting up. Once set up most planers didn't have an operator standing there watching them run. The radial drill looks like it is an eight foot arm probably a 22" column and has an L base with a box table for fastening smaller parts to be drilled. The CNC machines with tool changers, have pretty much eliminated all the old machines for production. Quite enjoyable to see them.
diamondtguy,the last pic.in post 728. Would that be similar to the work clothes you wore at Pacific Truck and Trailer?
Most of the time we all wore green coveralls,wore old school safety glasses and steel toed boots.The foreman usually had coveralls on as well.Lots of times the assembly shop guys didn't have coveralls on.Depended on what you were doing or the heat...I didn't wear coveralls when I first started but later wore them religiously. Found this pic on this site..Me sitting under a P-16 and I don't appear to have coveralls on.Looks like I am doing some last minute stuff.
This picture would be just after we built the designated P-16 shop.I can tell by the guys it was before the big recession in 81.You can see half the guys are in the regular clothes and some are wearing coveralls... I am the guy sitting on the Allison behind the 3408..(P-12)I see I am wearing coveralls now.. I some how ended up in numerous Pacific pics and a few brochures.
diamondtguy,I was referring to the white shirt and tie. Lol Well,maybe not white
Well then...my mistake...LOL....For the record I have only wore a tie once in my life.I'll go have another coffee now...
No wonder Blk prince never got his oval sign for the front of his truck. Its on that tool box right there for god and the whole world to see!!!!
Yes it is. I feel so neglected
camptramp,post 735, BCFP 6-263,how many trucks came new after this one,if any?
The #6-263 P16 Pacific was new in 1979 , It was followed by the new #6-264 P16 Paciific in early summer 1980 which would be the last new off highway logging truck to BCFP Renfrew Div. The #6-264 BCFP became the #40-140 TW then #H- 160 IPL .
Pictures #1 & 2 are a CFP float Camp on Nimpkish Lake . #3 is a CFP Rail road Tanker car & two halve's of a House on a raft or barge on Nimpkish Lake . the 4th picture is of the Westhome tree in Cowichan Valley .
1st picture a small sawmill . 2nd Picture a sawmill on QCI . 3rd picture Kapoor Lumber logging crew .
1st picture Falling a Spruce at Holberg . 2nd picture Port Hardy log dump . 3rd - 5th pictures logging at Sandspit QCI .
Post #744, far right on top of tank, looks like an old grass mower with steel seat, drawn by horses? Could be wrong tho...
Sigurd, You mean like one of these? Sorry about picture as dead weeds blend in with the rusty iron!
Just like the one I grew up with back in Eastbrook me on the farm.Thanks,Ron G
Yes thats it, i too grew up with these, we had Mc Cormick
2nd picture is Chemainus Sawmill
Canadian Forest Products Woss Lake Camp .
CFP Nimpkish Lake
Logging at Pacific Mills Sandspit .
Logging at Pacific Mills Sandspit .
Love the pictures thanks for posting them.Falling those big ones with an ax amazing. Well Bob how many trees did you fall this week? Oh we had a good week we got 2 down....
The Faller's would use "Spring Boards" to stand on and get above the coarse grain of the "Butt" of the tree trunk. They would use a "Crosscut Saw" to cut bottom of the "Undercut" then use very sharp axe's to chop out rest of "Undercut" , then use a "Crosscut Saw" to cut "Backcut' . And most likely hammers and wedges to fall tree in desired direction . I don't know how many trees a set of "Hand Faller's" would put on the ground a day , but they were hard workers and on " Piece Work" .
Bill Elliott has dropped off some more pictures to share . As He has gathered a large collection of photos , we may have some pictures from the same source , I'll try not to duplicate any pictures . I apologize should this happen . (BE) will recognize Bill Elliott's Collection of pictures and I'll try to acknowledge Bill's source of pictures . (BE) Roy Cook Collection , North Coast Timber .
(BE) Roy Cook Collection . 1st picture North Coast Timber , not sure where others taken .
(BE) Roy Cook Collection , 3rd picture was taken at M&B Copper Canyon .
Is there any documentation of what that log was used for? That had to be something special.
I believe it was sent to England to be used as a Flag Pole .
Chehalis Logging Camp on Harrison Lake , Office , Garage , Camp & Booming Grounds .
Yup, I believe the pole was for the Kew gardens in England.
Post 759, last 2 pictures, any info on the log loader? That thing looks huge! Ed
I can tell you that the truck was owned and driven by Bob Forrester. He contracted at CZ Nitinat when I was there. He then bought an 849 Kenworth. If this was a Nitinat haul then the loader was a Skajit SJ-7 with a life snorkel.It could have been at Nanaimo Lakes which had Insley loaders for early years. Bob has nephew Larry who is active on these sites. He may be able to shed a bit more lite on the situation. BP.
Birken Vogt You might want to check out the MacMillan Bloedel thread Posting 690--704 It will show what the Kew Gardens pole was about. Blk prince That HD Hayes Bob had and sold eventually worked for a number more years. Ended up being parted out in Port Alberni by a logging truck contractor and the cab was used on another HD being restored by another fellow here. It turned out VERY NICE. Will post a couple pictures of it
HDX,I knew you would be able to fill in a few more blanks. I never saw the HD as Bob had the 849 when I went to Nitinat. Did he buy it new?
1st & 2nd pictures Nimpkish Lake Camp CFP . 4th picture QCI
Picture's were taken in Queen Charlotte Island's
Often when I look at these pictures I wish my dad was still with us to see these pictures. Back in the 1930's he worked with his dad logging in Minnesota. Don't think he got into any of the big trees like some shown here as they were cutting for pulp wood that I believe used smaller trees. Recall going to a logging museum I believe it was near Grand Rapids Minn. back in the 1970's with him. He said it was pretty close to the way it was back in the day. Guide, another guy about dad's age was showing us around the place and asked dad about his experiences and when dad told him they worked cutting pulp wood the guide said "Oh, Strong back and weak mind!". Dad just smiled. I also recall that dad did also work at a saw mill for a time and I believe one job he did was grading the wood as it was cut off the logs. Another thing when he was doing the logging he mentioned that they had one guy who worked nights, his job was to sharpen the saws for the next days work, spent all night with the file dressing the teeth.
My father and uncle both worked in the logging camps in Northern Minnesota in depression days and thru out the 30s and into the 40s until they both went to war in their 30s. In them days most timber harvested was white pine, many up to 6' diameter. My father became a truck driver later on, proudly driving a nearly new 1937 Ford single axle dump truck loaded with rocks and frozen water for weight, chained up, and pulling a 20 cord load on a steel sled on prepared ice roads and frozrn lakes. They got a bump start from a RD-7 Cat and never stopped until they reached the railroad landing. Much cord wood(stove wood) was also being harvested for shipping to the urban centers. Pulpwood was just coming into its own and the demand for paper exploded after WW2. I'll bet your dad was tough as steel when he came out of the woods.
I believe these Sawmills were in Victoria B.C.
These pictures were taken on Denman Island .
Well when he retired at 65 or so I know he could still out work most of the 20 year olds at the quarry! Went from working in a quarry for 30+ years to riding on a school bus helping handicapped kids on and off.
1st picture is a MacGregor Drag Saw , 2nd picture an abandon Grade Shovel , 3rd picture is a Sawmill at Northwest Bay , 4th picture is Chemainus Sawmill , 5th picture is the old bridge crossing the mouth of the Jordan River .
Boulder Bill / Al Green Collection , 1st picture Reg Ryan Hillcrest Lumber , 2nd picture Al Melson Hillcrest Lumber , 3rd picture Bill Pannel Hillcrest Lumber , 4th picture Stan Halleron Hillcrest Lumber at Mesachie Lake Log Dump , 5th picture Hillcrest Lumber Co.
1st picture Kelsy Bay Camp , 2nd picture Chemainus Sawmill , 4th picture Gibson Bros. Chamis Bay .
Boulder Bill 1st picture Hillcrest Lumber , Side #1 Tony Yurkin Yarding Engineer . 2nd picture Angus Banting , WFI Honeymoon Bay Dump . 3rd picture Ken McMillen WFI Honeymoon Bay Dump .
1st picture Shawnigan Lake Lumber Co. 5th picture is a Letourneau Tree Crusher used at McKenzie B.C. to crush brush and trees in area that was to be flooded behind Bennett Dam .
Hi, I know years ago that thing was parked on the side of road , on display. Thanks Doug
Camptramp, what is that "thing" in your last pic?
Northern BC 2006.
Thanks d.d. Any spec. of the monster? Sorry, machine?
Sorry Sigurd I have no specs. I do have a pic of the brass plaque my wife is looking at on the machine but with the light reflecting off it it can.t be read. All I can read on it is the model LeTourneau G-175. Found this write up on some of the history but nothing giving any specs. Try Googling the model you may have better luck than me. d.d. http://www.bigthings.ca/bc/mack_his.html
Thank you d.d. I' ll try that
Already posted
Yair . . . donkey doctor What was the purpose in knocking/crushing in that type of country? Cheers.
The G-175 was a 175 ton tree crusher that was used to crush soft wood trees around the world. from 1953 to 1963 Letourneau made 50 machines in different sizes. the tree would be pushed over the push beam is about 17 ft off the ground. and fallen to the ground, partially exposing the root-ball structure, which is now shattered by the full weight of the roller and shearing blades on the drum. These crushers could operate to speeds up to 4 mph and side slopes up to 25%. These units were powered by a GM12V71 engine driving a Letourneau AC-DC generator, provided power for DC traction motors and drive motors in each drum. The G-175 was the largest of them , the smallest was a 56 ton G-40.
Yair... Scrub When dams were built the land was cleared to prevent snags and floating debris. Maybe this site was burned after it dried?
Somewhere's I've read there were 3 Letourneau Tree Crushers working in the area that was to be flooded behind the Bennett Dam , I don't know if they crushed only scrub stands of timber and brush they couldn't harvest before the area was flooded or everything . The machine pushed over trees , then the spikes were suppose to press the chunks of wood and debris into the ground . The cost of operating these machines must have been high , as there was a fellow on each machine with a "stop watch" keeping track of every time the machine stopped to deduct the time from the cost per hour .
There are some great YouTube videos of those things, pretty dang impressive.
I've got nothing more! But I did learn some things d.d.
Yair . . . For anyone who may be interested . . . Three similar but V16-71 powered machines worked for a short time around Moura in Queensland. They were a complete and utter failure and it is hard to understand just what the folks who imported them were thinking. The production was so low they tried to pull some chain but of course they couldn't clatter back across it like you do with tracks and this restricted their mobility. The lack of a blade for crossing breakaways and gullies was a major unresolvable issue. A couple of D8s or Allis 21s with a few hundred feet of chain were far more effective and a couple of nines would eat them up for lunch . . .and when the job was finished you could load them on a float. This was standard procedure with our operation . . . "the fellow with a stop watch" was also known as an "operator" and keeping the times entered in the log was an integral part of the job. (big grin) Cheers,
In the sixties there was a huge tree crusher used near here that Letourneo built. It was built like the huge walking dragline with the feet dragging the middle, supposedly to crush everything. The operators cab was on top of the left leg with the operator going up and down many feet every revolution. It looked like a stomach sinking ride. It got stuck in one of our Minnesota swamps during trials and it took them many days tying bunches of trees and old cars to the feet trying to get it out. Once out it was disasembled and quitely disappeared. I have seen a old rather poor video of it working. I believe it was at a show but can't remember. Will have to search U-tube for it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s7yw4qzRdl4 this the one you're thinking of? This guy has a lot of other letourneau videos
Boulder Bill / Bob Hoar Collection .
1st picture Victoria Limber Co. 2nd picture Sooke B.C. 3rd picture Alberni B.C. 4th picture is Chemainus Sawmill . 5th picture Sooke B.C.
That is probably it. I thought the operator cab was on a leg but that was a long time ago.
Boulder Bill / Bob Hoar Collection , Great Central Lake .
Boulder Bill / Bob Hoar Collection , Ledgerwood Skidder .
1st picture is an early picture of Malahat Loggings Beach Camp at Port Renfrew . 2nd & 3rd pictures are of Sawmill at Genoa Bay (off East side of Cowichan Bay). 4th picture Sinclair Lumber .
Boulder Bill / Bob Hoar Collection
First three pictures in post 803 came from Johnny Dojack. The first picture of the Sterling was taken at the China Creek jct, Bobby Maxwell was driving it. The second/third pictures were taken of H23 out in the NitNat. John drove the truck off the end of the road to take the picture beside that big spruce log. When Johnny gave me the the two pictures of H23 were printed backwards and had to be corrected
Boulder Bill / not sure whose Collection these came from .
1st picture Jordan River , 2nd to 5th pictures CFP Woss Lake .
1st picture CFP , building a swiming pool Woss Lake. 2nd picture CFP , Woss Lake Camp . 3rd picture CFP , Woss Lake . 4th picture a Trappers Cabin on Woss Lake .
1st & 2nd pictures CFP , Nimpkish Lake Log Sorting Area . 3rd picture CFP , Nimpkish Lake Camp A Shop . 4th picture CFP Nimpkish Lake .
In the second picture on post #806 is that futuristic (for the time) railcar actually an engine, or at least self propelled? That is one cool looking setup. Was it a camp car or used for people transit?
The rail car in picture was known as a "Speeder" , that particular one is a large one compared to the one's I remember growing up in Port Renfrew . Some of the early ones were "Home made" in camp shops . Some where's in an earlier post HDX pointed out that Hayes Truck's manufactured "Speeder's" . They were used for crew transportation and moving freight around a logging camp rail roads .
Boulder Bill , 1st picture Ladysmith contractor . 2nd picture Ladysmith Log Dump .
1st & 2nd pictures CFP Nimpkish Lake Camp Family Quarters .
Sawmill in Crows Nest Pass .
Boulder Bill .
Boulder Bill / Roy Cook Great Central Lake 1940's
Boulder Bill / Roy Cook Collection , Northern Pulpwood , Great Central Lake .
Comox Logging .
Nice stuff....first pic is a nice big Diamond T.....I see its missing its beautiful brass name plates off the side panels....
Queen Charlotte Islands
Pitt Lake
Boulder Bill / Roy Cook Collection , Great Central Lake .
Boulder Bill / Roy Cook Collection , Log Dump , Great Central Lake .
Campbell River Logging .
Green Point Logging Harrison Lake .
Green Point Logging Harrison Lake .
Comox Logging
Bloedel Stewart & Welch
1st picture Thompson & Clark , Harrison Lake . 2nd picture B.C. Spruce Mills . 3rd picture BCFP Gorge Rd. Mill Victoria B.C. 4th picture Powell River Pulp Mill . 5th picture BCFP Gorge Rd Mill .
Queen Charlotte Islands , 4th & 5th pictures are Aero Spruce .
Rock Bay
Rock Bay
1st Picture , Franklin River Camp . 2nd & 3rd pictures , Rock Bay . 4th picture Vedder River .
Campbell River Logging .
Eagle Lake , 3rd picture Machine shop , 4th picture Plank road .
LAKE Cowichan 1st picture a Rigger topping Spar Tree , 5th picture 309 - 120 ft. poles on Flat Cars .
1st picture Davis Raft , Queen Charlotte Islands . 2nd picture Johnson & Swanson Faller's Lake Cowichan , 3rd & 4th pictures Harrison Lake . 5th picture B & K , Pitt Lake .
I know I just keep pumping your tires but WOW! Such amazing pictures, and to think that was all done with sweat and determination. Thank you again for taking the time to post for all to see!
Eagle Lake Logging , 1st & 2nd pictures Eagle Lake Fire .
Eagle Lake Logging .
Golden
Boulder Bill
Golden B.C.
Holden Lumber
Oz Nelson . Oz found these pictures amongst his Mothers picture's , he believes his Father took these picture's at Cowichan Bay .
Boulder Bill / Jim Falconer Collection . 1st & 2nd pictures , A. Falconer's new 1956 Ford Tandem .
Adams River Lumber .
Boulder Bill / Jim Falconer Collection .
Campbell River Logging .
Boulder Bill / Jim Falconer Collection .
Empire Logging , Lake Cowichan .
My dad drove those Super Dutys all through the 60's for Johnson Trucking.He hauled gravel for them..I remember he got a diesel powered Louisville when they first appeared..Sure was a step up...
Boulder Bill / Jim Falconer Collection .
Boulder Bill / Jim Falconer Collection .
Sinclair Spruce Mills , Prince George B.C.
Sinclair Spruce Mills , Prince George B.C.
Boulder Bill / Jim Falconer Collection . 1st picture is an early Madill "Tin Tree" . A D-8 Cat and off set cab Mack snub her down off hill . Tower Carrier is an old Pacific Foundry & Car WW II tank retriever .
Cant help but wonder if in fact WFP has not got their fingers in this thread. Lot of wrong things happening here and nothing being done to rectify the situation. Yes it actually smacks of Don DEPENDS
If you want to see the rest of JIM's pictures go to Hankstruckpictures.com Go to truck pictures page and type in Jim Falconer truck pictures They are all on there with the proper captions under them!!!!!!
Wow some great pictures of older trucks working, and other machines being moved or working! Sure enjoyed looking at them.
Yes There are a lot. Jim's son Justin Falconer also has pictures on there. Well worth a look
I did not mean to offend anyone by posting Boulder Bills pictures with his captions under them , as I have , I sincerely apologize for it . I have some pictures that the Blk prince has loaned me that I will post . The rest of the pictures I have "Banked" will remain as such , as I have other projects that require my attention for the near future !
B&K Logging , Browns Bay .
Camptramp, glad to see you back, ive been lurking here for a long while but always enjoy your pics, thanks
Sinclair Spruce Mills Prince George B.C.
Bs&w
Upper Fraser Mills Prince George B.C.
B.C. Spruce Mills
Yair . . . Thanks so much camptramp for you ongoing commitment to document the heroic efforts of a whole generation of men who built these structures. I for one did not know such flumes had existed and I can only imagine the relative value of the timber must have been greater back then than it is now . . . roughly what period are we looking at here? Cheers.
Some great photos of flumes one can only imagine the hours and engineering spent to built them. Thanks for sharing Tramp.
Great pics, must have been a huge job building those waterways, thanks ct
I don't know any more about "Flumes" than you fellows , but I've heard about them being used . Usually in a situation in the early day's before the modern Logging Truck was perfected , to access area's with valuable stands of timber out to far to reach with skyline yarders and in to steep of country to reach economically by Logging Rail Roads . In the 4th picture it looks like a road of some sorts with logs used to roll logs out on , to drop into the Flume . Could the logs have been dragged to the Flume by Oxen or Horses or even early Caterpillar tractors ? It certainly shows what a determined Logger will do to get Logs to a Sawmill .
Have to believe the biggest issue with using a flume was a close constant water source. Wouldn't work well when the creek dried up. Ed
Holding Lumber .
The last flume built in Idaho was in the early 40s. It ran as I understand it until the late 40s. I believe that most flumes were used in the pine country with short logs 16' or so. Water was, and still is pretty cheap to move logs. Labor and material along with cutting practices today relegates flumes to the picture books.
Holding Lumber .
Boulder Bill .
Beaver Cove Lumber .
Boulder Bill .
Boulder Bill , Pioneer Timber Co. Malcolm Island .
Boulder Bill .
More great pictures of men working, and old trucks working. What a labor intensive long working days they must of put in to harvest timber. I can't figure why the truck and trailer are out on that skid on a dock in the first picture of post # 881. The second picture also has same truck one a skid. Keep on posting the great old time pictures I sure do enjoy them a bunch!
I think that isn't a skid, looks like it could be a turntable to turn the truck around at the dump so it can head back to the woods. The other woul be to turn it around so it can be loaded and then head back to the dump.
I am thinking it was a turn table like trains had at the round house. End of road turn around.
A lot of oral history was acquired during BS sessions before work and at lunch time in "Crummies" . Having worked for several years off and on with "Skidder" Sid Smith (who was a wealth of information ) who had worked at Great Central Lake and Pioneer Timber at Port McNeil in the 1930's -40's , we heard about legendary character's like Archie Mckone who invented a Turn Table to turn logging truck around at the Log Dump and loading sides on "Fore & Aft" plank roads . In the book LOGGING British Columbia's Logging History by Ed Gould , pages 116-130 is a chapter on the accomplishments of Archie McKone .
Thanks the more I look I see where it could pivot and the turnstile slides on the logs. Just amazing to me what they came up with to get the job done.
Boulder Bill .
Green Bay , Ocean Falls .
Boulder Bill , Hillcrest Lumber Co.
Boulder Bill , WFI Gordon River Div. Honeymoon Bay dump .
Canadian Forest Products .
1st & 3rd Pictures are Refuge Cove , 2nd Picture is Union SS Chelosin docking at Refuse Cove . The Union Steam Ship Co. provided transportation for freight and passengers up and down B.C.'s Coast to Camps Mills and Settlements before the era of modern day Float Planes took over the service of moving passengers from cities and towns of B.C.'s Coast to camps and settlements in a more timely fashion .
Yair . . . Would any folks on here who understand a bit about steam care to comment on the reasons for the inclined cylinders occasionally seen on small loco's. Just curious that's all. Cheers.
Those are called Climax locomotives, as I understand it, the cylinders are tilted like that so they can mount up directly to the transmission and get rid of the gear arrangement that the older Climax's had. Like Shays, they were gear driven locomotives designed to pull loads up steep grades and get around sharp turns on uneven rough track. I'm not an expert though.
Yair . . . Gotcha alskdjfhg . Thanks for reply. Cheers.
1st picture , Tug "Assian" CFP , Nimpkish Lake . 2nd picture , Tug "Nitinat" . 3rd picture , Union SS Cheslakee at Sechelt . 4th picture ,Tug "Hope" 5th picture , Tug "Hopkins" at Sooke .
Ring & Merril , Theodosia Arm .
Ring & Merril , Theodoisa Arm
BS&W Myr tle Point .
https://youtu.be/eZcZ3WLqVSs [video]https://youtu.be/eZcZ3WLqVSs[/video] [video]https://youtu.be/eZcZ3WLqVSs[/video] I nice old video, if someone can get it to open automatically; please do. I don't know how to do that. Thank You in advance. old1
Awesome pics Camptramp! Thanks so much for keepingthe history alive
Scottish Logging , Mile 54
Scottish Logging .
Sure interesting to me to see the old camps and steam engines. Thanks for sharing Al.
Thanks camptramp and others ! I am a fifth generation logger making my son 6th. Our logging roots started in North Carolina and my great granddad continued that on in N.W. Montana. I read through all of this and enjoyed it very much. Keep up the good work. opcorn:scool
Thanks Jim and dooby , here's some more B.C. West Coast history . Union SS Lady Pam, Union SS Cardena , Union SS Cardena at Englwood , Union SS at Anyox , Union SS Cassiar . These ships transported a lot Loggers , Miners and Fishermen with their freight up and down the B.C. Coast in their day .
AA & L Logging .
AA & L Logging
Missino Point Hazelton
Victiria Lumber & Manufacturing , Camp 10 .
BS&W Stillwater .
BS&W Stillwater .
Some great old time pictures. The hours that had to be put in to build all the buildings and laying the track for the locomotive. Before they could start cutting trees and hauling them, then floating them to a port. Lots of hard work! That picture of the three men getting ready to fall the tree, shows how big some of the trees were back then. Looks like you could spend a lot of time falling each tree let alone getting moved to be floated away. Guess no one told them they that it couldn't be done, so they just figured out a way to do it. Lots of hard labor, done by some very hardened men, getting the job done no matter what it takes!
1st picture B&K Logging at Browns Bay . 2nd picture is at Reads Bay .
BS&B Stillwater .
Tug Cloe at Stillwater .
E&N Rail Road Vancouver Island .
Bernard Lumber , Orford Bay .
Pretty cool to see those pics of Orford, hauled in there this past summer, can still see remnants of rail line. Those fellas WERE REAL LOGGERS!!!!!
Bernard Lumber , Orford Bay .
Bernard Lumber Orford Bay , Fire Equipment .
Bernard Lumber Orford Bay .
Bernard Lumber Orford Bay .
I love that country and these old logging photos. Does anyone know if them lumberjacks ever got a chance to go fishing on Sunday?
My Grandfather worked on the coast in the time of steam. I enjoy looking at the old pictures to see if he is there. I know he worked for Merrel and Ring at Thedosa arm( bay, sound?) as we have one picture with a location. Thanks for posting the old pictures. Cam
Mike Cross , A couple of pictures of a Gypo Logging Show in Cowichan area . Mikes father inlaw is standing by truck in 2nd picture .
Brooks , Scanlan & Brian , Stillwater .
English & Woods , Englwood .
Woods & English , Englwood
Ring & Merrill , Theodoisa Arm
That last photo of Ring and Merrill; I think that is the first time I have seen a chopped undercut not level, I have seen small chunks tossed into one side or the other to help throw the tree, but until chainsaws, this is the first one I have seen.
Ring & Merrill
Ring & Merrill
Found this on the Internet . I take my hat off to this Rigger , he has a big job in front of him .
International Timber Co. Campbell River .
I worked with an old highrigger (Wes Sealy) 35 years ago ,that worked in Menzies Bay back in the 40's. He said that they use to go fishing days off in a row boat with a hand line and catch large springs with spoons
Was a chockerman off an A-Frame at Caroline Lake mid 60s. Rivers Inlet area. Trout would bite on most anything. One of the crew living in the married quarters regularly caught his family's supper during our lunch break fishing from the A-Frame
Tug , St. Faith towing Davis Raft .
Was this a steam driven tug. If so what did it use for boiler fuel.
I am wondering the same thing and about what year would this be.
It is a steam tug, must be oil fired. not fuel barge with cordwood. BC Archives has the photos. Google Tug St. Faith BC.
http://www.ssmaster.org/ A machine still functioning over a century later ! What does that say ? STEAM is Alive !!! http://www.northweststeamsociety.org/steamboats "Master" is the society flag ship.
Our friend Rob Norman has received some pictures from a Cousin of his . Included in it was some sort of a Crew list for W.D. Moore Logging Co. Ltd , Winter Harbour , B.C. and an old envelope that contained some negatives addressed to H. Johnson , Juene Landing , B.C. , do'es anybody recognize any of the Names or Equipment ? One name I recognize is K (Ken) Shobe , I met him at BCFP Renfrew Div. around 1970 - 71 . At that time he was Falling .
Rob Norman An old Mack could be at Jeune Landing .
Rob Norman Could be a Skagit Slack Line Yarder at Jeune Landing .
I like the idea that BC was small enough then to have Juene Landing BC as enough address on the envelope. too bad there postmark isn't visible.
Am I correct in seeing what appears to be two tracked arch undercarriages supporting the machine? It would appear to be turntables under each end. If so, that is a pretty nifty way to maneuver one, you could crab it right where you wanted it with little effort. I was also noting the fresh/clean paint job and no roof yet on it. I wonder if this was it's first landing?
Looks like they used 2 shovel undercarriages to me. great idea!
I thought of shovels at first, but they looked too small, going back and looking again, shovels make more sense. Probably just a smaller shovel.
I found an old Mack manual in the old Jeune Landing shop and gave it to Steve .Might be the one for this truck
The old Empire skidder from Mahatta had under carriage like that but it had solid road wheels .It is sitting under the Ingersol dump next time I am over there I will take a picture
Ray,I will check and see if it was for the Mack LMSWM like the one pictured.
These ships must have been beautiful in their sailing days. Creative repurposing.
Here is an interesting stump from the old days here on San Juan Island. Ran across it on my way to work.
Heres an A frame up in Gardiner Canal 1972. It was logging right around Europa Point. Sorry they not such clear pictures, best i could do with the instamatic at the time.
Is that frame surrounded by water? Must have been an extra challenge to set up. Was it used for unloading or loading barges? Great picture.
My son and I found this cool discovery (we’ll rediscovery last time I was here I didn’t have a camera) at Whatcom falls park/hatchery in Bellingham. I can only imagine what steamed across this old trestle back in the day. It is a small one comparatively but impressive nonetheless.
More of the Whatcom falls trestle
Hi John The A frame was used for yarding from shoreside. If you can make out the stiff leg coming out the from of the float at the foot of the A sticks.Then there was a shore guy running thru blocks a bout 30 feet up each A stick to stumps on shore. From there it was regular High Lead logging going back about 800 feet yarding into the water.I was 14 at the time my summer job in camp. I was fortunate to spend a bit of time on the A frame when it was running. They flew 3 1 1/8" chokers and always seemed to rip stumps clear of the hangups.Pretty exciting to watch some old time loggers gettin wood.
Correction 2 chokers
Tugger2, thanks for info, that must have been something to see, yarding them down into the water. Getting chokers loose must've been fun and wet work?
This is a pretty cool setup!
They usually landed the wood on the stiffleg so the chaser could run out and unhook. On this rig they would use a dozer boat to peel the wood off the stiffleg. I got that job sometimes lots of fun for a young guy.
Some pictures Oz Nelson sent to me .
Amazing set of photos there Mr C/T, lots to look at when I finish work today. Thanks Oz Nelson.
Wow lots of great pictures thanks for taking the time to share them with us Camptramp. Anyone know why they would be so high on springboards cutting that tree? I can see why on a hillside to get it level, but don't understand why they would be that high when there isn't a bunch or roots making the base extra wide.
Dirty4fun, I reckon their whip saw was not long enough to go any lower! Cheers
What great pictures thanks for sharing.
Been having another look, and noticed one picture where they are riding the flume, must've been a lot of fun! And one log loads, too.
What is with the Pete in post #978 with 7 trailers? Is that just for show or could it have been practical? Also it looks like they are all stinger steered.
that pete belonged to LHC ,they were in montana, hauled private road for champion, some of there trucks pulled double trailers . they did the 7 trailer thing to set a record i think (maybe) they were in loggers world article in mid to late 70's ,thats where my info is from
More than likely to get above any heart rot, Cedars were known for that. If you note any of the "cabins' made from cedar stumps, they were always at least two boards high. (Like the one in post 971.) Many though were three high.
My copy of the photo states they were hauling for Champion into Libby MT. The road is the old J Neils Mainline up the Fisher River From the photo I suspect it was probably from the Jennings re-load since I doubt the load could handle the curvature upstream from Jennings. Yes, I think it would be practical, the grade was favorable and the curvature was reasonable, I have driven that segment several times trying to figure out exactly where the photo was taken. In my mind, it was taken within a mile of so of the log dump. But, over the years, things have grown up so, it is hard to tell. I have been told, Jennings was a surge yard for the mill in Libby.
Great pictures. I like the air tongs on the shovel.The company i worked for had a set on one of their grade shovels aptly named the Earwig. They did some neat rigging in those days
At Camp 18 in Elsie Oregon... had a good moment with my infrared camera in 2011 View attachment 179995
Camp 18 is a great spot to stop for a meal ( you will never leave hungry)and wander around amongst a collection of old logging gear .
The Kinsey brothers and Tabitha really did a great service to those of us with a historical industry bent. Their images and the individuals (Jesse Elbert & Dave Bohn chief among them) and the universities that have tried to preserve the collections over the past 80 years or so have left us with this fabulous historical record of the men and iron in the timber business 1896 to 1945. It is truly a shame that as many 10,000 of Darius's glass plates were destroyed after WW1 for the glass to be used as picture frames. I do photography because of Darius and Tabitha. I read "This was logging!" as a kid north of Seattle and Darius hooked me. I made the drive to Nooksack back in 2010...
Looks like I found one of Hanks pictures on an internet site .
Awesome pictures CT
Old rotten and long forgotten
POST 1001, Any idea what those guys are doing in the first picture. Looks like they are building a foundation for something. There is a lot of cribbing for support under all of it.
Nice Image!
Just a guess dunwurken but they might be doing sorts and grading for utility poles. They look long and this like a pole.
Never thought of sorting poles but it does look like what they are doing.
I though they were building a base for a Davis Raft.
Looks like one of Grays River's Shays.
English & Wood Englwood Mill
Well I am not sure where I shot post these pictures of an old GMC 620 model made in the 50's. Pictures were taken in Oregon Summer 1984
do they still get any of the really big wood?
Once in a while we get some big ones. This was last week.
pretty fair size
Here is my dad in '66. He said it was faster for him to run the saw by himself without some flunky hanging off the end of the Stinger. He was a go-getter that's for sure.
Oh, and for reference he is 6'4".
I would not have argued with him if he wanted to run that saw by himself
Haha, he was the hardest pushing guy I ever met. Everyone I know that worked with him said how good he was. He is long retired & lives outside Port Angeles now.
Another interesting video. This is from Northern California 1962
Does anyone know who this is? That has got to be really close to where I'm at.
"Rigid clearing specifications had been set by British Columbia to ensure that the proposed High Ross Lake site would be free of trees and other debris in order to enhance its value as a recreational area. The Decco-Walton Logging Company of Everett, Washington was one such company operating in the Skagit Valley. Two hundred American logg rs were: employed near Ross Lake felling and yarding timber for the 42 mile trip to the booming grounds below Hope, at. which point they were towed down the Fraser River to mills at. Everett. " Page 43 From: https://skagiteec.org/wp-content/up...-The-Skagit-Valley-Recreation-Area.x27155.pdf
That looks like one of your jobs, nothing but the cream!
Looks like it could be but our trucks don’t need those tall of stakes
Didn't really know where to put these photos, Long-Bell Mill Longview Wa. One is the head rig, It's something to see timbers cut that size and the amount of board feet in one, in the days of great lumber. *
A few photos I took a couple of years ago of the operators room at the old Louisiana Pacific mill that operated in Walla Walla. Walla Walla was a going concern in those days. Allot of timber ran through this mill, created allot of jobs. *
Thank you Mike those are spectacular pictures. I would love to see where those big timbers were going to be used.
That's where I broke in cutting timber was on the old long bell Ryderwood tree farm. As a matter of fact the Longview fiber company still had their offices in the White House in Longview up until a few years ago when they were sold. Now Weyerhauser has offices in there
they used some big timbers making Timberline Lodge on Mt. Hood. Nothing as big as those railroad logs though.
Stayed a night there, neat old building, massive fire place. *
In 1978 I was working in the overhead of the Cornish School of Arts in Seattle. My journeyman and I measured the ridge piece that was 30"x40" x 96' one piece. It ran longer, but we could not measure the overhang outside. The ceiling joists and rafters were 4x12 on 16" centers. All rough cut, no planing. What really got our imagination was thinking about getting it up to the ridgeline 4 floors and an attic above grade. Building engineering long before CAD cut everything to the minimum.