A tooth fell off my Wain-Roy backhoe bucket, I knew it was loose for a long time, the one side of the fastening pin was mushed down most likely from use letting the tooth wiggle around a lot more than the other 3 teeth... What are some of the other places I can go to buy a new pin? Even on line, rather than always going to the dealer.... I live in an area (New England USA) that really don't have too many places to go. There is one place called FleetPride, but thats geared for large trucks rather than for off road. It looks like the pin that holds the tooth in place does not rattle around where it sits in place, and its the ends of the pin that hold the tooth on. So even doing a temp fix like bolting it on by double nutting the ends would ruin the hole after a while.
hey i get this magazine that has all kinds of online places to get teeth and parts but i just threw it out ill be getting one next week and ill tell you some places.
whats the name of the mag Case 580e?.... joeeye59 your bucket have a hockey smile?...LOL.....if you could find a pin close to the same size at hardware store put it in your freezer over night then run out and drive it in when it warms up should make a tight fit...
Any Schmidt Equipment Dealer or Genelco which is were I get teeth and pins. They are on Resovoir Rd. in Needham,MA. Cat would most likely have the right teeth also.
I am not conversent with the Wain-roy but it sounds rather like what we call cat tips. On these the pin is held by a sprung washer that is set in the side of the root before the cap is placed on and then the pin driven through. If so you need a new clip as well as a pin. The clip on these is encased in rubber and tapped into the recess. Cant find a picture of the clip and pin, sorry.
Here are some pic's... I should have waited before running to the dealer, I think he sold me the wrong kind.... look at the picture and see what you think. I can push this pin out with just a little force, geeeze! The one picture (bottom right) is of an existing older pin in one of the other tooth that is okay, you can see how it does not stick out much pass the sides? It's not like the new pin shown in the other pictures in place. I don't like this new pin... I even questioned the guy about if there are other sizes, types and any specific for Wain-Roy, and I got the don't give a crap attitude, its not my problem...
Great, thanks... I keep forgetting a few other members told me about the few mags out there for free that I can send away for, I hope I can find that older post...
Are you talking about one of them completely round universal press-fit pins that have the open seam going down the center that gives it the tension to hold in place? Because thats not a bad idea if this new pin I got don't work.... I should be able to find one thats about the diameter of a dime, then cut the ends to fit nice, the only question would be if the steel its made of is durable like the actual pin used? Oh I get it now, a hockey smile... you can call it a chipped tooth...
So AtlasRob, so now I'm thinking there are a few other pin types I can use, because the one I got can't be correct, its not giving me anything that feels like its locked into place, I can take a screw driver tip and push out that new pin with moderate pressure... But what gets me is the new pin I just got looks very close to what the other old pins I have on the other teeth look like... there has to be a specific for this Wain Roy bucket, and the parts guy sold me a pin for the stock JD bucket, this has to be it???
After 2 minutes of time this new pin slid right out half way ready to hit the ground.... Now what do I do? Should I question the dealer again? Also I wanted to mention, I never found a web site on Wain-Roy that had Wain-Roy buckets and parts you can buy from, what I got was referred to dealers that sold their product, and JD was one, this is why I figured I'd be okay if I told the John Deere dealer it was a Wain-Roy bucket he'd know exactly what I needed. I was wondering about this, am I correct to think Wain-Roy parts and such are only available thru dealers like JD, CAT, etc...
This is my 2 cents (I graduated from the school of hard knocks, with honors) I have spent many hours and dollars, trying to save $2. Then I save the $2 and get a generic part, that lasts about half the time. My 2 cents worth, is go to a dealer (like stated before, in your area) take the tooth with you and they should give you the right pin. I agree with you, that the one you got, doesnt look correct. My local Carquest, auto parts store, sells teeth and pins. I have tried the putting a bolt in there, even welded it, lasted about 2 hours, then I went and got the right thing Sorry to be negative
Maybe...your worn tooth is the reason the pin is sticking out. It is a new pin in an old worn tooth. What kind of hole is in your shank? A staight hole, or one that has a countersunk area on one side like AtlasRob showed in his pics? If it's a staight hole, you might have the right "type" of pin. Take your tooth off, drive the pin into the hole, those little ridges at the end of the pin should be right at the sides of the shank to lock it in place. If they do this, it could be you have it installed wrong. I believe when you install those the ridges go toward the bucket. If there away from the bucket, they can loose by the tooth compressing them while digging and unlocking the pin. Just a few thoughts.
Thats exactly what I did was brought the tooth to the dealer, the kid didn't even touch the tooth, with out looking in any parts book or ask any questions about what it came off of he came back out with them wrong pins.... I can understand sometimes service will not be the greatest, but this dealer is too far away to be dealing with this crap... I'm going to do another search on the other dealers that also sell Wain-Roy, like Case, Cat and a few others that are close to my home. They should most likely be able to get me what I need.
Those pins you have come in at least 3 different sizes that I know of. You may have one that is to small.
I'm sure its the wrong pin since Dwan Hall says it comes in 3 sizes... thanks. There is no counter-sink in the hole, its a tiny bit round like an egg, is it suppose to be perfectly round? I can see then ridges like your saying don't sit where they suppose to sit, the pin is too long. Also the pin has a side stamped with the word "Back" so that cleared up installing it... Well I'm glad everybody helped, I'll go back to the dealer, if he can't help I'll try them other dealers that work with Wain-Roy.
Sounds like things are coming together. Hopefully, you'll hook up with a parts guy that actually ENJOYS COMING TO WORK EVERYDAY AND WILL HELP A CUSTOMER OBTAIN THE CORRECT PART THAT HE NEEDS! OK, I'm going to shut up now.
Well I'm learning something new. I have never seen that type of pin retainer before. It sounds to me like the pin is slightly too small. To answer your question ( remember I haven't encountered this type before ) I wouldn't be concerned about the hole being slightly oval, I expect that is deliberate to help prevent the pin from turning once driven into place. I sure hope you manage to get it sorted, sounds to me like you got the wrong parts boy on the wrong day. To add a bit of clarification to my pictures earlier here is a pic of an old pin and spare new retainer. The retainer taps into the root and is held by the rubber surround. The cap is then put on and the pin hammered through left to right ( its easiest that way ) it passes through the retainer until the slight recess in the pin is grabbed by the retainer.
Here is a picture of the correct pin size, looks the same but about a 1/4 inch shorter, and now it fits nice and flush on the sides of the tooth. I'll need to put more hours on it to make sure its going to be okay.... I did notice something I'm not sure about just yet. I have four teeth and only needed to install the one new pin, so the new pin I installed the way it works is the pin wiggles inside the hole and the ends of the pin hold tight on the tooth. And on the other three teeth its the opposite, the pins don't wiggle in the hole, they are in the holes very tight, and its the ends of the pins, them little tabs of sort holding the teeth in place by not letting the tooth slip off.... hum? I have a feeling once it gets packed with dirt its not going to wobble in the hole anymore like the other three... Also, the word on the tooth that said "Back" was confusing as anything, so I pushed out an old pin to see "Back" faced the tip of the tooth, that was very odd because I would have figured the other way...
I think your doing it correctly. The part that says "back" should be on the cutting edge side of the shank, the tapered edge with the tabs on it should be toward the tooth. And yes, it will all tighten up when it all gets some dirt in it.
Time to raise this old Thread… My tooth fell off again on the hoe bucket, most likely a worn pin because the other 3 pins are shot, all worn out. But what I was wondering, the shanks look decent with minimal wear, more along the lines of having a slight angle going across the top from as the tooth wiggles side to side, rather than back and forth. So I'm going to replace all the 4 teeth before I figure they keep falling off with brand new pins. Would it be correct to say that I figure it must be whats going on in the field is when the teeth fall shortly after replacing the pins is the indicator that you went too far with out replacing the teeth and now the shanks need to be replaced? Pictures soon to follow, its a little work to get pictures posted on here because I need to transfer them from my phone to another disk, then to the laptop, then post them on line.
If you replace the teeth you may want to re fit them to the shank. The top of the shank will wear some and can be built back up with a little weld. The outer shanks will wear on the outside as well. The tooth should fit tight on the shank up to the point the retainer will go in. It doesn't take long at all to do this. That style pin you require I think is used more with Case and Deere , the round pin with the retaining washer is referred to as cat J 200 system. I have 4 buckets for my hoe , and generally will loose a couple teeth a year. It happens.
I found this guy (link below) on Ebay, seems to be the fit, its a Wain-Roy Bucket so I'm taking a guess what will work by looking at the dimensions. ( I didn't look to see if there are any advertisers on this forum I can shop for teeth). http://www.ebay.com/itm/170551437427?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649 The welding is a good idea...
joeeye59; Can't you hook your phone to your laptop with a usb cable and transfer the photos ? If not, Can you email the photos from the phone to yourself, and that way have them in the laptop. One last question I promise! How are transferring photos from a phone to a disk ? Copying photos from a phone to a computer shouldn't be a time consuming task.
Joeeye59, I have a Wayne Roy bucked with 5 teeth like yours. A couple things I've noticed that may help you. When you hammer in the pin, make sure both sides of the pin goes in together. If you use a punch and push one side in before the other, it shears the rubber and the pin will be already partly damaged. The other thing to know is each time you push your bucket back in such a way that the stress is trying to pull the teeth out, the rubber is being flattened and the pins will start to loosen because the rubber is damaged. It's not a great system. I just keep an eye on the pins and replace them when they start to show damage. Make sure you remove the tooth and clean off all the dirt before replacing the pin.
It never occurred to me Deon to keep an eye on the pins… I guess I always thought they stayed put. I was able to take one pin out today buy hand wiggling it back and forth, and it was in two pieces. So I ordered a new set with pins. I hear you Deon about installing the pins making sure both metal parts that sandwich the rubber go in at the same time. Someone mentioned freezing them first?
I'm messing with the phone now Tinkerer to figure this out like your saying… I don't have a smart phone because I refuse to keep up with the costly trend, every time I buy something a faster better unit comes out two months later lol… So I have a regular old "Flip Phone" with a cheap plan that lets me use a little bit of Internet time, so I think I just sent a picture like you mentioned. Before I use to have to take out the Cell Phone Mini XD Storage chip and insert it into a box/reader that plugged into the laptop by USB, then load into the laptop, and that use to give me trouble. I'm still waiting for an Email to see if my phone worked when I sent it by Email. I'm working on it lol...
I hear you joeeye59 , I finally figured out how to post pics and videos , then bought a new laptop with windows 8.1 . Its like I never used a computer before.
When I first started out with my old hoe I was loosing teeth moving scrap tires, pins were loose inside teeth and shanks. The pins would fall out and I'd loose the tooth inside a tire. I asked a local guy who ran backhoes and excavators for 30+ years what he'd do. He said either replace the shanks (which was too costly for such an old hoe and bucket) OR get some Grade 8 or harder bolts and nylock nuts. Replace the pins with the bolts and by the time the head of the bolts wear off the tooth should be wore out. I'm on my second set of teeth with bolts holding them in with no problems. When I changed the teeth the heads were too wore off to use a wrench to take them out but there was still lots left to hold the tooth on
Why not just weld the teeth on? That is how mine is set up. I had one break off yesterday, but found it and weld it back on again. Oh, my bucket is not set up with any holes to use pins.
That is a 23 style pin by the looks of it they also make it with the tabs on both sides which will hold a bit better. But it does sound like the shank is wore also they should be fairly tight going through the shank.
Could it possibly be a combination of wear on the inside of the teeth and on the outside of the adapters..? Can you "rattle" the teeth on the adapters..? If you can there is wear somewhere, and that's what could be causing your pins to fail. Looking at it this way, the pin is only designed to hold the tooth in place when you hold the bucket upwards with the teeth pointing down - to stop them falling off in other words. The pin's not designed to have any weight on it whatsoever when the teeth are actually in the ground digging, all the weight should be on the adapter and nothing on the pin. If there is weight on the pins when digging then that's probably the root cause of why you're having problems.
Nige, I understand everything your saying and I know your right. I have a tendency to slide the bottom of the bucket to flatten the dirt. I do it while pulling and pushing. I also push rocks and gravel and many times with the bucket angled so as to press down on the gravel so as to somewhat compact it at the same time. That is what destroys the pins. I believe a good pin design should allow the operator to do these things. IMO, this is not a good design.
I got the new set of teeth and the pins that came with them, the pins went in real easy, I knew it wasn't going to be any good. The first use after 10 minutes two of the pins started backing out about a half inch past the edge. So I took them all apart and seen the one side of the pin that has the word BACK was bent with a slight curve, and the rubber was separating on one end, the one side that has the hooks on each end was the part that didn't bend with that slight curve. I didn't like the pins that came with the teeth, I didn't think the hook on the ends didn't have enough of a bite to prevent it from sliding out, so I took a grinder to it and made the ends that hook more prominent, I lowered the entire surface of the pin on the side with the hooks, so now when I slide in the pin it seems like it stays in there better. But the fact that it goes in too easy tells me the entire assembly needs to be reworked, the corners and edges on the shanks need to be welded and reground back to new looking, so the holes going through the shanks have a 90º edge again. I believe that little bit of wear makes all the difference with the pins staying in. So now I have two NEW pins that are partially broke being the rubber separated from the metal, and if this repair don't work I'm going to try some OEM pins from John Deere. I have one OEM Pin and its a nice looking pin, better looking metal, and the hooks on either ends are very prominent in what its designed to do. compared to the pins I got had such a soft hook, I can see why it didn't catch the edge of the hole to stop it self from sliding out. Then my last resort is what someone mentioned, I forgot who, I'll put bolts in there. I have a 5 gallon bucket filled with 1969 Dodge Charger Engine bolts that I saved from back in the day, now they are some strong bolts that will out last the teeth, I'll pall peen the treads so the nuts don't back out...
If the bottom of the bucket is still solid you can always change the adapter straps. It sounds like the shank retainer hole is worn just enough and the shank is worn letting the tooth work the pin out. Its not a big deal if your a decent welder or know one , removing the old adapter straps is somewhat time consuming due to the fact that you don't need to remove any more metal than necessary. This would be a more permanent solution and given limited use would last a long time.
I went through the same frustration because the previous owner ran my backhoe without teeth when he would lose one. I welded new and old teeth on more times than I care to think about. They were so loose that even the welds would break. I lost a lot of teeth in rocks and mud. Last summer I paid a machine shop $280.00 to remove five shanks and weld on new ones. I supplied the shanks. The welds looked as good as any I have ever seen on a new bucket. He was that good of a welder. I had to hammer the new pins (same as you are using) in really hard. Those pins will never come out unless I cut the rear of the tooth out to release them.
Lots of good reading here. Seams that all buckets are not created equal. Even Wain Roys. My Wayne Roy was brand new when I got my older Deere so the teeth, pins and shanks were in perfect condition. I have taken good care of my shanks so as to make them last as long as possible and as a result they are still almost like new. But I still say that the design of the pins with the rubber insert is not such a good thing. Yes the back of the pin will bend and the rubber will deteriorate unless you never do anything to pull back on the teeth. My Deere dealer stocks these teeth and pins. I thought they were the same style and size as the older type Deere teeth. Just an assumption since Deere did stock them. But I can say that if ever my shanks wear out I will be welding in something better. I've tried grade 8 bolts but the heads shear off in the hard clay.
You say you have a Wayne roy bucket, does the machine have a wayne roy hook style quick connect on it? I ask because all the rental yards in my area use this style bucket, probably other areas also. Other brands interchange CP, tag, maybe others. Hertz has sold me a lightly used buckets for probably less than what a few shanks and a couple hours of welding cost. Ive always been confused on the "back" stamped on the pins. After trying them both ways I install the "back" towards the front of the tooth. Going off the stamp, I assume this is wrong..... but it sure does work better for me. Also if I have a shank a thats a little worn but not enough to break out the welder, I just put a little dirt in the tooth before I slam it on. But then again it seems like I blow through teeth like crazy. You guys that "loose a tooth a year" are killing me! I burn through a set of tiger teeth in a couple days of hard digging.....
Yes LT-x7, I do have the single pin quick connect. The back of the pin goes in the dirt last. The two lumps on the pin should point towards the tip of the tooth.
I know that's the way the pins are supposed to go. I install them backwards, seems to work much better that way.
Yeah the Backhoe came with the Wain-Roy hoe bucket, and it does have that hook style connect, I believe you have to swap out the stock John Deere part that hold the OEM hoe bucket in place to fit the Wain-Roy bucket, at least this is what I see when I was looking at the shop manuals.
I used top quality hardened bolts to bolt the teeth in place, it looks like to me its going to wear out the shanks very fast, actually wear everything out very fast. I think putting in the OEM pins backwards like a few have done is a good idea if the edge on the hole going through the shank is rounded down worn not letting the tooth on the pin catch it hard enough to not slip out. Because the edge on the opposite side of the hole in the shank is nice and squared so to lock onto the tooth of the pin. 3 of my pins were falling out, so not sure why the one that didn't fall out and stayed in there, maybe not as worn?