Hello Fellas, Now that I think I have most of the kinks out of the 580K I wish to try a few little jobs off the farm. I've been ask to give some quotes,. One quote is to clear a five acre treed lot and he wishes to know how much/acre and how much for all five acres. Another wishes a quote on cleaning up the back yard approx an acre of small trees and rocks the size of bale of straw to three times that. I'm in the Eastern Ontario area. Was also wondering what to charge per hour. I don't does this full time, the machine is paid for and I'm semi retired. Just want to give a fair quote and go live the dream and enjoy running my Backhoe. Thanks Paul
Find out what the rental places charge to rent a hoe and how much to transport it back and forth. To that, add your labor and you should be in the ball park. That will be the cheapest option your customers will probably have; rent and learn how to operate. That's what I did when I first needed a hoe. Or you could pick the brain of other operators as to how much they charge; a ball park figure. They won't give you any hard numbers without walking the site. Then you have the insurance angle to figure. If you never dig below 4 feet, you have one number. Get below that, where the phone cables, gas pipes, water, and all the rest live; it's about 4 times more a month. Call the utilities to have them mark where all their stuff is, it's free and saves a world of hurt if you don't. Somebody dug up a main trunk line near me; it had 50,000 lines and took 3 days to fix it.
El Hombre thanks for info, I worked Public Works for yrs, realize how important to have utilities come out and mark the services. For the most part these tasks for now will be rural setting but still adjacent road way and possible services, I have worked the Hoe periodically last yr, help a friend remove big rocks from his pasture, I'm still a little green and may always be but not that bad, and was wondering how long it would approx take remove larger stumps. And any little tricks to speed up the process, or watch a couple more videos and fly by the seat of the Hoe. Thanks
call up some of your local competitors and ask them how much to run their hoe by the hour
hi paul i am in Quebec here backhoe rate go from 90$ to 60$ per hours i am at 75$ in your situation my backhoe is paid for and its more an hobby then a money making but i don t want to be unfair with the guys that make a living out of this so i stick to my price i win some and i losse, some all clearing job are by hour it depends of wath kind of stuff is there, knoking down an army of 50 ft high tree or few 10 ft bush is not the same thing at all have fun with your machine i have a 580k too and i love it
I used to charge $100/hr with a one hour move-on charge and a 4 hour minimum. Now that I'm retired and have no overhead I do neighbor jobs for $50+/hr or will even trade. As for trees, try to remove them while they are still standing. Dig around the trunk about 6+ feet out and sever the roots as best you can. Once you've dug down a few feet put your bucket up against the tree as high as you can and push. The top weight of the tree will typically leverage the tree over if you've severed enough roots. If not, do it again. The good parts are it takes less time than the cutoff rootball; when you push the tree over you can direct the fall; you're pushing the tree away from you and your equipment; and, it's less stress on your equipment than digging up a stump. It also pulls the root ball out and after you push the tree out of the way, fill the hole in. Doing it this way will take about 20 minutes depending on the size and type of tree. Oaks and pines are fairly easy but cottonwood trees have massive roots, and some grow straight down. Getting under the root ball isn't easy on a cottonwood. Good luck.
Thanks Again, I've taken all advise and some how nailed my first job, clearing rocks and 7 to 12 foot cedars from an area fifty feet by just over a hundred and a half feet. Cedars are coming out OK and once I cleared an starting area I'm slowly making progress. Thanks Again for the the advice folks. Still have lots to learn, getting better with the scraping the first inch or so and utilizing the swing to send the trees to the preferred side. So I will just continue systematically through the bush. Pull the rocks clear then address the cedars. Have to work on keeping area level, limit the bouncing.. thanks
If i am not mistaken you live in a very rocky area. Our company would quote on a clearing job cost plus , Because you can' t see how large those rocks are underground . We have run into tree roots growing around huge bolders that the mighty 580 cant 't budge . I would make that clear to your customer that bigger machines may be needed . You will find it won't be a hobby much longer and yes as El Hombre said INSURANCE . I have seen what a 900 pair Bell Telephone cable looks like on the tooth of a backhoe .Cheers
Hey Bill Smith, you are dead on bout the rocks, and thanks again, had chat bout potential unearthed rocks with Client. Been soldiering on for a couple of weeks. Customer is happy and it's still a hobby so far, I said so far. Insurance wise I am well inside the property line away from all services.. Chat soon when I break something...
That line of thinking will get into a lot of trouble sooner or later. I have seen every utility service there is, located on private property where nobody ever expected to find them. Sometimes we would get lucky and see them before any real damage was done. Like Bill Smith said, I also have seen telephone cables ripped in half with the backhoe I was running.
Even more importantly than damaging utilities, what happens if your hoe catches on fire and burns the clients property, or there prize stallion steps in a whole that was created in the process of clearing and breaks a leg, or heaven forbid their grandchild runs up on you unexpectedly and you hit him with the hoe. The people that do this for a living charge what they do because of costs like insurance. Do you have a contractors license? You are entering into a contract to do this even if it is verbal. I know that it sounds like I am trying to rain on your parade, but please consider such things.
("Chat soon when I break something.." Referring to breaking something on the Hoe, and I do appreciate all the scenarios quoted above and understand the seriousness of digging around services. I worked utilities for twenty odd yrs both up in the bucket, on the ground and under ground services. Our crew has hit gas lines, water and sewer lines, telecommunications lines, cable etc. over the yrs. The services were marked but still managed to tear into an unmarked abandoned gas line. But as I am reading the above quotes one thing for sure is I need to have insurance and that's the bottom line, you can't for see or control all events surrounding this back hoe and it's activities. Thanks again Gents.any more advise is most welcome Thanks
Sounds like you're doing "neighborhood" work at this point. One suggestion is to say away from bidding work, charge by the hour. That way rocks and the neighborly "could you do one more thing while you're here" stuff is covered. Where I live any job over $500, labor and material, is considered contracting and you need a contractors license. Most subcontractors will require you to have a license so they can pay you with a IRS 1099. Also, they will require you to have a bond and insurance naming them as additionally insured. My point is that as you do more and more work the more conditions are put on you, so, you need to adjust your rate to cover your overhead. Doing neighborly jobs is probably the cheapest your work will cost you. Let's say you bought an older hoe, paid cash and don't have a transport so you drive (road) your tractor to the job. Now, if you run the backhoe all day at about 2000 rpm you'll use about 12-13 gallons of fuel and as long as there's no mistakes, that's pretty much your overhead. Your hourly rate needs to cover the overhead and labor. As your skills and work grow, so will your rate. If you want to stay busy, the cheaper you are the busier you'll be. Busy is good because it gives you time behind the controls and if you really enjoy the work you can make some money. Good luck because collecting your money is a whole other issue.
If i recall your in ontario check for insurence broker taht sell aviva canada insurence they have relly good rate base on how mutch you work with your machine
I do this for a hobby. I charge $70/hr for anything with wheels and $95/hour if it has tracks.
Sure.... As long as you don't buy grease, or plan on changing any fluids, or changing worn out tires (which will be sooner than later roading to the job) or making any repairs. There is a lot more involved in the overhead number than just direct business expenses. I agree adding in business expenses like insurance, licensing, advertising, ect absolutely increases it. But the price of fuel is a small part of the overhead to run with or without a business.
Read the thread again, I covered all that in general. My point was that neighborly jobs will be the cheapest work he'll probably do. No, I didn't cover every possibility that may add to his expenses, but GREASE?
Thanks Again HEF Members for all the advice, Neighbors happy, opened up his lot, already less bugs, a view and bit of a breeze. Just have to improve on the way I approach the trees, rocks, stumps to be more efficient but I did enjoy creating a park like scene for Neighbor. Cheers.
Grease isn't all that cheap if you buy the good stuff, then you need a decent grease gun, rags, possibly some hand cleaner, and constant new tips for the gun. It all adds up quick. What do you figure it cost to run your machine for a hour brucelee? I'm talking without the overhead of a business or figuring anything for machine replacement. Just the hard cost to run the hoe for an hour. I understand your point of no transport under the table jobs being the cheapest work. But my point is the fuel bill is just the tip of the iceberg sometimes. I also respectfully disagree about avoiding contract work. I prefer to work by contact with a fixed price. Unforeseen conditions like rock are discussed prior to the job and covered in the contract. Working by the hour is like being punished for being efficient and good at your job. Naturally some jobs are better done hourly and some customers prefer hourly contracts. But most of the time I prefer to work on a fixed price.
I spend almost 250 a month on just grease running my equipment 6 days a week
Wow, $250/month? 6 days a week is 24 days a month, so you're using $10/day worth of grease? On one backhoe? That seems pretty excessive but to each his own. Anyway, my original response was to Ivanhoe who stated that he thought he had the kinks worked out of his SK and was thinking about doing some work in his neighborhood. He wanted to know what others charged. From his post it didn't appear he was licensed, bonded or insured. So, my post addressed neighborly type work which is typically handled with a handshake, not a contract. Without a license Ivanhoe can't even enter a contract with a value over $500 because a court would find that it would be considered an illegal contract with no recourse. Nor would Ivanhoe be protected by mechanic lien laws. Maybe I assumed too much. Anyway, I was addressing the minimal expense he might might incur for small jobs, certainly not everything he might spend owning a backhoe. Ok, some may spend $250 a month on grease working 6 days a week, but, I don't think Ivanhoe was at that point. His major expense would probably be fuel. And that's what I was saying. Grease, rags, fluid replacement, lunch, etc. wasn't answering HIS question, it was only complicating it. Will he have other costs, yes, but to try and make a science out of a couple jobs a month type scenario was not answering his question. I hope he was able to get an answer but experience will dictate what his actual costs are. Sorry if trying to answer his question rubbed anyone the wrong way but I thought I addressed HIS question. At 12 gallons/day he'd spend about $40 for an 8 hour day or $200 for a 5 day work week just on fuel. That was my point. Even charging $50/hour for a good week would gross him $2,000 - not too bad for a person just starting out.
I once plowed up a Bell telephone long distance cable. That cable was about three inches in diameter. I was pushing out some sycamore saplings with a D7. Going along in second gear. the tractor pulled down and I shifted to first. When I turned around and looked back there was over a 100 feet of cable drug out and skinned up. that cable was only buried 18 inches deep. So the telephone company guys came out. Mad Mad & madder. Started telling me how many thousands of dollars per hour it was going to cost me. I was young in my twenties. I gave them the horse laugh. I told them you cant get blood out of a turnip. And besides no court has awarded them a penny yet. I then told them If I hadn't got the cable the guys with the dirt pans doing the land leveling would have. And last I told them Your line isn't on the easement. There where Railroad tracks within 100 feet. and a fence between the property and Rail road.. there easement was on the Rail Road land not the private property. Now the property owner was present the entire time. he was showing me what to do when I snagged the cable. He was really worried sweating bulletts. He called his lawyer. and the lawyer showed up pronto. took lots of pictures. The phone company hired a backhoe and moved the phone line to the other side of the fence. We never heard another peep from the phone company. Another time I was running a D8 K pushing earthmovers on a road job. We where cutting down a hill . there was a pipe line crossing. tHe Highway engineer assured me the pipeline was buried 18 feet deep. We where going to make a 6 foot cut. About five scrapers came and they got loaded and went to the fill. as I as backing up I felt a bump. It was the pipeline! less than two feet deep. If I hadn't noticed The next round of scrapers would have got it. and we all would have been toast.
Just say it was like that when you got there But no one wants to get toasted either.
The best part is that you got paid to learn. Doesn't get any better than that
One backhoe one skid steer one i use one to 2 tubes on the backhoe and skid a dayi hit water allot when i dig also a 200 hitachi i have rented and the trackhoe gets used once a week and d31 komatsu i have rented also which is used mainly about once or twice a week
I have used a whole tube of grease in a day on just the backhoe in the right conditions. Naturally a decent portion of that ends up on me and other areas it doesn't really need to be. Which leads to my comment about rags and hand cleaner You didn't rub me the wrong way at all, I just respectfully disagree with your opinion. I also was just trying to address the OP question about how to arrive at a hourly rate that will hopefully be competitive and profitable. You never answered my question about what it cost you to run your backhoe for an average hour? Under the table without any business expenses included. I personally estimate my operating cost for an hour of running the backhoe in the neighborhood of $30 per hour. Just figuring fuel, maintenance and related consumables. But not figuring labor or business overhead. I really don't have a great estimate on this operating number because so much data and variables go into it. For me $50 per hour wouldn't be worth the liability or legal risk working under the table. $50 per hour operating as a legal business you would be better off flipping burgers.
I'm a general engineering contractor (class A) but have been retired for about 8 years now. Commercial work only. What does it cost me to operate my equipment/hour doing jobs around my property isn't important to me. But it seems to be to you so first I'll say, while I was in the business the going rate just for the backhoe/operator was $100/hr., $125 for compaction. My point to Ivanhoe was that IFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF he owned his equipment, IFFFFFF he wasn't licensed, etc., he could operate effectively for about $50/hour and grow from there. First, that's a deal and he'd probably be in demand at that rate if he's decent. Being in demand is the key because that gives him time behind the controls while he's getting paid. Anyway, Ivanhoe wanted to know what others charged so he could maybe start some local neighbor work. I answered that question based on what I know and what I do currently do. Where this whole thing went sideways is when you decided you wanted to argue with me about my answers. Answer Ivanhoes question instead of popping off about how much you think you know or how good you think you are. Who cares. As for $50 per hour operating a legal business and flipping burgers, where did that come from? Is Ivanhoe operating a legal business? It didn't sound like he was and neither am I, I'm out of the business. Do I help neighbors like Ivanhoe wants to help his - yes, and like I said, I ask for at least $50 per hour or I'll even make trades. That was the entire thought process when I answered Ivanhoes question and now I'm wasting my time answering yours. Do I count rags, tire plugs, hand cleaner or lube, no and neither will Ivanhoe. Let's let this thing go because I don't care how good or smart you think you are, all equipment operators think they're the best. Damn, this is one of the reasons I don't miss the business.
There is no way I would run a backhoe for $50 per hour, no matter if it was paid for and I had no insurance or overhead. I charge $95 an hour for what little backhoe work I do per hour, most of the time my 420 is a support machine in bid work. At $50 an hour it doesn't leave much left over to pay yourself for operating, put fuel in it, set aside money for repairs and make a profit. For example - Say you damage a rear tire beyond repair. That's around $600 bucks for a new one with you putting it on. You've just worked 12 hours at $50 per for a new tire. During those 12 hours you haven't paid yourself for your time or the fuel you burned, just for starters and not including other costs. Something to think about.
Calm down buddy, the only one that went sideways here is you. I never said anything about how good I was at anything. But I do know how to do simple math and know there is not much money to be made running a backhoe at $50 per hour. My comments were specifically pointing out why there no money left at these rates. I could care less if you or anyone else is perfectly happy working for neighbors for nothing. Being retired you need to do a little more of this :beerchug and a little less of this