Howdy, I need help purchasing my first backhoe. I live in the middle of nowhere on a gorgeous piece of the West Texas high desert. I jump dirtbikes. I've built a few jumps but the size of the dream is fast outrunning what one man can do with a shovel and a pick....though not for lack of trying. I don't know a damn thing about backhoes except that I need one. I'm handy, I can figure stuff out on the fly pretty well, and know how to use a multimeter. I don't weld yet, but that is being addressed. I'm not building a motocross track (yet), my jumps are usually built into natural terrain, 4wd is necessary. Prefer open ROPS, though I don't suppose that has to be a deal breaker. Here's what I need from this machine: - 4wd - has to be able to get through our rocky "soil" - reliability trumps bleeding edge performance - least amount of electronic systems possible Budget is around 28k with some wiggle room. Thanks to Burnout and HandTpipeline, who dropped some great info in a thread from 7 years ago, I've pretty well narrowed down the machine to a Super L/K. What I need to know now, is what year, what series and why? ALso, being able to travel 40 miles round trip and bang out a few hours of work would be pretty handy. I'm sure that can be solved in other ways, but being self contained for a days work would sure be tits. Thanks, -D
How close is and what band is your closest equipment dealer? For cost I'd go with a Case 580SL series2 or 580SM series2. The 580SL ran from 1994-2000, so I'd get as new as possible. The 580SM ran from 2004-2008. Both good machines in roading and working, balance is good going down the road enclosed ROPS are roomy and quiet if that is something you are looking at.
A John Deere 310E would fit the bill. I believe it is the last one before computer management. Made around the year 2000. These are really good backhoes and you should be able to find one with some life left under your budget.
I have Case, Cat and JD, all 4.5 hrs away. While ultimately, cost is king, If it came down to needing a little more budget to get a more reliable machine, more powerful machine.....I can be patient. Is there a better option worth being patient? Do you suggest the 580 because it is slightly slimmer, and both the 80's and 90's will have good power for my needs? Good to know man, some of my spots are accessible through a few miles of back road so some road miles are inevitable. Thank you for all the info, it definitely gets me closer.
I will give those a look, coming in under budget would be good. Every dollar I don't spend on a back hoe is a dollar I can put into fuel, dirtbikes and logistic support. Is there a specific model or generation I should be focusing on?
I’m a cat backhoe man. I have had 2 420D’s. I can go bucket to bucket against a JD 310 the Case 580 or a NH 75 scooping up the last little bit of asphalt or gravel in a parking lot and shove them all over the place in 2 wheel drive. The guys who own those wanted to run mine to see how it felt. They don’t bounce around like the other. They’re a lot heavier. They all went and bought one. Especially being it’ll be your only piece of equipment it’s heavier and stouter than the competition. You’ll be able to push more in rough ground and the buckets usually bigger. Mine has a 1.4 yard bucket. They’re a little wider so it’s more stable. You can find them for what you’re asking with 3k hours or less. I have 7500 hours on the one I have now. Have only replaced a couple lines and rebuilt a few cylinders and that was recent. Never touched the engine besides an oil change and fuel filters. Oil filter at cat is around $10 and 2 gallons of rotella so only $40 for an oil change. The D models have the pilot controls which are smooth. Very smooth for a backhoe. Ran a new case a couple of years ago with pilots and hated them. They were no where close to smooth. Where case has them beat is they’ll road faster down the highway cause they’re lighter. But if it’s not the super machine they don’t have near the power to climb hills. The cat is a little slow and sluggish on climbing the big hills being so heavy but I’ve roaded mine over 20 miles in a 100 degree weather and never had any trouble out of the torque converter and that was after working it all day. That’s just my opinion but everybody I know who’s had the others and got on one of my cats sold there’s and bought a cat.
Lots of good info, thank you. What are the best years of the 420D's? or just look for the newest 420D that falls in my budget? I'm an analog guy. I can receive and decipher a lot of information about the ground through suspension/tires/handlebars/steering wheels in both dirtbikes and trucks. From what I've read thus far on manual vs pilot controls, sounds like you lose some of that information with pilot controls. In your experience, do you get the same amount of information back from the bucket via pilot controls as manual?
I just bought a Cat 426. I am glad to see that I may have gotten the better brand. Case seems to be way more available, at least used. I stumbled on this one. It is 4WD and everything works. The only major thing I can see wrong is the booms drops quickly. So that is either a bypassing cylinder or a resolver issue. Not a huge fix. I did not realize how much heavier the Cat is compare to the Case. 5000lb difference.
Cat case deere ford Chevy dodge As far as cats the first year and a half of the d series had serious frame and dipper problems after that tho the seemed to be a decent machine most 420s weigh in at 16000 to 16500 lbs plenty of weight 420s are actually bigger than a 580 but the super 580s are comparable I was raised cat you cant beat the b and c series cats they just dont die the latest stuff is a different story but that's out of your budget I would agree with most recommendations on here Deere e series was pretty solid and non electronic the g series was not bad either but started with electronics I cant really speak to case never had one around really terrible dealer here As far as pilot controls go cats d series are hydralic you dont loose sensitivity withe them compared to wabble sticks but the feed back is in your fingers and butt not your hands like with mechanical controls after about 2006 most all manufacturers started trying to make pilot controls electric over hydralic now those are dead handles It really doesnt matter what you buy as long as you can get parts locally a 15000 or 16000 pound machine will do just fine a 2 wd will do the job you just have to learn how to use it but 4 wd is definitely the way to go also costs more The most limited part of this scenario is your lack of knowledge and experience beat thing to do is take your time and shop for machines far and wide
Are you only going to use this machine to build tracks? I don't see when you'd ever use the hoe part of a backhoe. Perhaps a track loader or skidsteer is a better option.
I found several threads about the frame/bucket/dipper failures this afternoon. The 96-2001 580/590 SL II's are still top of the list. The Deere's are next on the block for a deep forum dive. That makes perfect sense, great info. all parts (Cat, JD, Case, Volvo) are 4.5 hrs away..... that's the one universal hangup. We are of a similar mind here.....if there's one thing I've learned it's that experience is generally accrued the moment after you need it, and I'd really like to avoid that here. Thanks for the intel.
As of right now, no plans for a track at all, just back country jumps. I use natural terrain to build jumps. One of the obstacles I face out here is that our "soil" is very powdery (and full of rocks from pebbles to several hundred pounds), so the jump faces use soil from very specific deposits....which often times, aren't close to the jumps. The walls of the jumps have to be shored up with rocks so they don't wash under compression, sometimes rocks aren't close to jumps. With the hoe I can precisely place my "gold" dirt. I could also utilize larger stones to shore up my jumps and place them with less personal risk. The biggest asset I imagine the hoe provides, is that I can carve into the face of a wash, rather than pick my way through it. Rough it with the hoe, polish it with the pick. Pic attached is what I'm currently building. Hand carrying the rocks and shoveling every ounce of dirt. That pic is a week old now, I've got a lot done since it was taken, but it was during this that I realized I need a machine. How far off am I, I'm thinking with a back hoe, and myself, a rookie operator running it, I could have jumps and landings sculpted in 4 or 5 days? If I had to guess I'm probably running somewhere around 40:1 with respect to hours swinging a pick/shoveling/carrying rocks and time on jump......I'm looking to drop that to as close to 1:1 as possible. Life is so short, and there are so many things to jump.
All of these backhoes we have discussed so far are HEAVY machines. They can get stuck pretty easy even with 4wd. They are difficult to trailer for the average person. They are expensive to repair and can be expensive to own. You might also consider a smaller lighter backhoe like the ones that Kubota makes that are less than 10K lbs and are overall much easier to own. Another option might be a 50hp or so 4wd farm tractor with a front end loader.
It depends on what you need the machine to do. In my case I am clearing a heavily wooded area for a house, barn and digging the foundation hole along with installing my own septic. I need a big machine. Once all the big projects are done I will downsize to a lightweight "gentleman farmer" type rig. The OP has to decide his needs too. I have now way of moving the beast I bought so I paid to have it moved. I don't own a car or truck. Just have 2 company cars and they can't handle a 15,000 lb behemoth.
With a $28K budget you could buy a couple different machines. I think a skid steer or CTL is a much better machine for building jumps. You could get one of them and maybe a single axle dump truck to haul the material and the loader. Do you own the land where you're building the jumps? Could get in a lot of trouble if you don't.
skid steer would most likely be the best for building umps. The hoe would not really be much help for this.
I had considered a kubota, because of dealer proximity however, they're not powerful enough. After speaking with others who have land out here, it became clear pretty quick that it'd need to be a more capable machine.
You'd be surprised what a skid steer with a tooth and smooth bucket will do. Tooth bucket for digging and smooth bucket for finish grading. Biggest advantage of a skid steer is being able to see the bucket edge and exactly what it is doing.
I can see how that would be quite a benefit to a rookie pilot...... Between a back hoe and a skid steer, which has the steepest learning curve? If either requires more time behind the controls, but could offer an advantage once proficiency is obtained that could change the way I'm seeing things.
Either one requires lots of practice to get proficient with. Skid steer is more stable from sideways rollover but you have to be careful going up and down slopes. Need to keep the heavier end on the up side. I wouldn't tackle what you want to do right off the bat. Maybe you'd be better off hiring a contractor to build your jumps for a few thousand dollars. You didn't answer if you own the property?
Good info. As far as your continued concern about trespassing, it is well received, but unnecessary. I'm a fortunate man, I don't roll that way.....or jump.
It's a liability issue. I have an MX track and a guy that does freestyle wanted to put a jump on the property. Said he'd sign waivers and everything, blah, blah, blah. When he's laying there with a broken neck you can be darn sure those waiver forums aren't going to mean much.
I almost offered that it sounded like you've experienced misdealings with either dirtbikers or trespassers in general, but didn't want to assume.... Would I be wrong to assume that you do the dirt work for the MX track?....and use a skid steer/CTL?
There used to be a guy with sand pit that let people ride there. Great place to ride. It was the first place dry enough in the spring. They even had a race there and he did a bunch of work for it. Some idiot in a 4x4 went out there and drove off the bank. I don't think he was killed but was badly injured. I think he tried to sue the owner because he didn't have a no trespassing sign. The dirt bike riders were very respectable but it was shut down after that. The other thing you need to worry about is if someone else rides there and gets hurt on one of the jumps you built. All it takes is 1 guy to cause you a lot of grieve. I do everything at the track. It's hard to get help to water the track to make it better. I have a Cat 931B crawler loader with a backhoe attachment for digging the clay and sometimes rough shaping if building a big tabletop jump. I use a skid steer for final shaping and finishing and building smaller jumps. I have a dump truck as well but didn't originally. The skid steer is so much faster maneuvering and is much easier to get the desired result. It doesn't look like you have wet ground to deal with so a skid steer should dig it OK. If there's lots of rocks a rubber tire skid steer is probably better than a CTL. Anything with an undercarriage will cost more in maintenance and repairs. You might find a skid steer with a backhoe attachment. It's hard to tell exactly what you're trying to build in your picture.
It my experience, it is hard to do pretty much anything with just one tool. I imagine when you are working on your dirtbikes, you use a 10mm end wrench for a lot, or even most of the work, but eventually you are going to need a phillips screwdriver, allen wrench and so on. Pretty much the same story here. Backhoes are great for a lot of what you describe, but I'd much rather be in my skid steer for finish or precise bucket work. You can't completely get away from roading machines from time to time, but dump trucks and trailers are sure handy. $25-$30K is a pretty decent budget. If you have patience, you could probably get a wheeled skid steer and a backhoe for that price. You would probably be looking at a mid-90's backhoe and an early 2000 skid steer.
I'm a new BHL owner and I struggle, so far, a lot with smoothing out surfaces with the machine. What I've started doing, as I make a wreck of my yard, is back-filling ruts, as possible, then smoothing it out as much as I can with the loader side, then spinning around and doing a finer smooth with the bottom of the hoe bucket. I'm sure there are operators out there that could teach me a million things that I'm doing wrong and they could do it way better. That being said, prepare for a learning curve as far as grading and smoothing goes. My neighbor has a skid steer and though he's pretty experienced with it he can smooth a surface very quickly, in comparison. I don't know how much that has to do with seeing the bucket well or not. I think a 4 in 1 bucket would make my grading/smoothing life a little easier too, to be used like a box blade, but that wasn't in the cards for me. The learning curve of using the machine effectively (but maybe not to the fullest of its possibilities) isn't too bad. It is possible to get over-confident a bit too quickly, so beware of that. As someone else mentioned getting stuck may be a real issue, even with 4wd, not having any trees out there to tie to to drag yourself out of trouble may be bad too... Ground that seems hard doesn't seem nearly so after moving 15000 lbs around on it. I'd suggest, if you get a BHL, that you practice, somewhere relatively safe, moving the machine around with the hoe side. I've had my front wheels almost completely buried in mud, to the point where they were stuck in their own channels and wouldn't turn, making it (along with a creek nearby) really challenging to get out of, I'm pretty sure I was also bottomed out on the bottom of the machine. I was left lifting the whole machine with the hoe bucket and shifting sideways, hoping I didn't slide back into the muck. The whole thing felt like it was going to fall over and it took me about an hour to unstick. Once you get good at moving around with the hoe bucket it makes all the leaning and bouncing less terrifying.
.....when I can find it..... This makes sense. I've been mentally going through the current builds....each one is an entire unique set of challenges with regard to construction.....this makes the "right tool for the job" principle resonate. I may break down and make the days drive to rent one for a week, then rent a skid steer for the next week....and see what happens.
That's a good plan, you can see which machine is more suited for the task. Maybe both.
Definitely rent before you buy. You'll see what you like and what works for you as well as learn on a machine you won't have to fix - and that's worth the rental fee. aighead, smoothing with a loader can be done in reverse using the float feature. Push the loader control all the way forward until it sticks. tilt the bucket a little until you get the result you're after. You'll get the hang of it. A lot of new to machinery owners don't know about the float feature but it's common on loaders and dozers.
I rented a new machine that the float function worked well with... On the one I bought I'm not sure it does but I need to go look at how it's supposed to operate again. I have plenty of practicing to do, just now need to find where, in the yard, I don't mind losing dirt from, to fill the holes.
It turns out that I'm just dumb and wasn't using the float function properly... I figured it out and it works really well. Now my big ruts are fairly manageable. Thanks!
I'll admit that if I could have only one type of machine it would be a backhoe for versatility. For road building and grading, however, you need a dozer with a six way blade. The bucket on a loader will only grade to the same level as the rear wheels. Many times I've tried to re level a spot in a road with the backhoe and had to go get the dozer.
aighead … I found using the heel of the bucket and back dragging works very well for smoothing. Especially, if material is in the bucket. Also doesn't put a strain on the cylinders like using the edge to back drag. (Several farm loaders have damaged cylinders using the edge. Of course a farm loader is not the same as a TLB)