Figured I start a new thread. The JD 210LE I "Scored" on turns out it has a bad #2 rod bearing. We thought and hoped it might be a fuel/injector problem because of the KNOCK, but alas...my worst fears were realized...bad rod bearing. Got the rod end off and the dang bearing was nearly welded to the crank throw...the throw is not too bad, not particularly scored. The throw measured 3.128" in the center to 3.132 on the outside edge. Rather than a new engine what do you thing about polishing with emery and installing a new bearing and gamble on it? Anyone ever done that? What is the stock throw diameter to figure what oversize bearing (if needed) would I order...AND...can you get ONE bearing and not buy an entire low end kit> Paul
Four thou? Naw, it won't hold. Many winters ago there was a setup to grind crank throws in place.... not sure you could get that done these days. One rod, all new bearings, some gaskets and seals, if the crank throw isn't blued, have it ground undersize, should be good to go. The last one I saw like that the rod came out through the block just under the injection pump.
If one rod bearing failed it is quite likely the rest of them are in urgent need of replacement. Don't throw good money after bad money. Take the crankshaft out and have a competent machine shop recondition it.
Pulling the crank means pulling the engine and it looks like the trans comes out with the engine...if I'm missing something and there is a easier/better way please let me know. Wrenching on tractors is entirely new to me. We have a shop here and do cars, pickups and MC's but no heavy equipment. I don't have anything heavy enough to pick the engine/trans as an assembly. The throw on #2 is really not in good shape and the crank really should be addressed. Going in that far, I'm considering a JD factory short block, is there a better outlet for one? This is all about the money at this point. Our $12k deal is not looking so much like a deal anymore...not with this engine issue. THANKS for any and all advise!
Would have to agree with that one. If you try to save money now I'm afraid it will come back to bite you when it is least convenient.
Am I correct in the assumption the trans comes out with the engine?
I bought a farm tractor to bush hog many years ago. I could have written your story. In my case I had the crank ground, new bearings. It lasted a week, and broke the crank. Later it was explained that enough heat to melt a bearing sets up stresses in the crank, maybe even bending it ever so slightly. I believe broken cranks soon after a bearing failure are pretty common. I spent a bunch of money on my engine. New head, combustion chambers, sleeves, cam bearings, crank, bearings, wrist pins, and seals. That's 29 years ago. I still use the tractor often. Willie
Ya Willie, I'm with ya. This whole thing just makes us sick. We knew going in it could be the problem...so here we are...it isn't like we didn't know but it doesn't make it any easier. I called my dealer this morning and a step up from a short block is $5800. They have an independent re-builder that has a whole drop in for a "very competitive" price, and I'm waiting on that price. It still needs to be installed. I have no problem with that except I don't have the heavy lifting gear. Still waiting to hear if someone know if the trans comes out with the engine...
Step Number 1; get a factory service manual. Then you can find out how the factory suggests to pull the engine. Then you figure out how to 'cheat' on that to save time and effort. You're probably going to have most of the beast in pieces on the floor by the time you get it apart.
For some reason #2 always seems to let go first in my experience. Good crank shops inspect and test the crank before turning them. An alternative would be a reman crank or new aftermarket if available.
Crawled under again to look some more and the mains on either side of #2 are all pounded out. The low end is junk, needs a crank and a rod. If I wasn't retired and still making the big bucks (HaHa) I'd just jump on a new motor and move on. Different story now and it's all about the money. I've been calling around and short blocks are going to run $3k-$4k. JD has a long block for $6k and we all know there will be a ton of incidentals. It looks like the motor separates form the transmission and can be pulled independently...Is that your experience? I got a bid on Ebay for a manual but that is still a ways off. Is there a torque converter in the bell housing to deal with? This just make me shake my head...LOL THANKS for your help!!
I wonder if the one you had that failed, required welding? If the journel on a crank is bad enough to require welding before grinding, I won't use it. IMHO, there's a lot more heat generated from the welding process, than anything that might happen in a running engine. I have put crankshafts in two engines in my lifetime that broke the crank sometime later. Both were a reman crank kit.
I generally let the machine shop access the lower end and let them determine if crank replacement or repair is best. I just remember the old 345 IH gas motors snapping the crank at the front main. Howard
While it's still together, do a leak down test on the cylinders; they 'might' still be decent. Then you'd be only looking for a crank kit and not a short block. Try to do as much diagnosis as you can so you know what you're dealing with instead of guessing or assuming. Plus you're retired and have more time than the guy with a crew that's standing around until you get it working....internet gives you so many more options than just 10 years ago to find something or somebody.
No welding, they turned everything .010 undersized to fit new bearings. They did magnaflux it but cracks didn't appear until later. Willie
Well, here's the update... I went round and round from chicken shirt repair options to top of the line drop in's and everything in between...It also turns out the trans follows the motor out in one gigantic assembly, not good for me because I have no way to manhandle that beast...I'd need another tractor!! LOL... Anyway... My JD dealer can provide me with a complete JD long block for $5800. I use my tins, water pump and fuel system and other hang on stuff. They have a service guy that can come onsite and make the swap because the shop is 60 miles away but the rate is $130/hr. With it sitting on a slab infront of our full blown shop, I'm hoping he will be willing to use my help to keep the cost down. I got a bunch of stuff stripped off this morning, ordered the new engine and maybe have it stuffed in next week if we're lucky. Considering the initial purchase price of $12k we're probably still OK even with having to bite it on a new engine... I'll keep you posted.
Do you not have ceiling framing, a pile of 6x6s or a welder and three pieces of some structural steel . Tractors have been split with as little as tree trunks for support. Until it is evaluated you don't know about the top end. I guess you need a crank, and bearings. Prop it up, and get on with it. Willie
If it hasn't spun a main bearing, your block should be ok. If it were me, I'd want to see taken apart before committing to a $5800 engine, but you'll have to make that call.
Yep, $5800 is going to be chunk of change for us but there were some things that sealed the deal. The machine has 7k hours. Along the way it looks like many components have been serviced/replaced. It is an auction machine so I have no way of knowing for sure but it appears VERY well maintained. It has a sticker from a service provider/refueler. All the joints are very tight and full of grease along with other clues...so the two biggies are the engine and transmission. The transmission and 4 wheel drive worked just fine the bit I ran it before realizing the motor was junk. But here was the kicker in making the decision to buy the long block...everything I pulled off in the oil system was contaminated with debris from the failed rod and bearings. The oil cooler was really a mess and I spent tons of time assuring it is clean... Bottom line with the degree of contamination and the prospects of having another failure, we said fugg it, bite the big one and start off with a fresh motor from top to bottom. It was a tough decision but it's over now...except for all the work to install... I'll let ya all know how she turns out! Hopefully next week... Paul
This is the really big downside of an auction; getting to buy something with major problems. Most auctions won't let you spend an hour running something to see if it's good or junk. It's a real crap shoot. Stuff like engines with bad cranks somehow seem to end up in auctions....
Plenty of people sell questionable machines by private sale also so to be safe you have to assume the worst and hope for the best. I like to look the previous owner in the eye when he tells me about the machine - something you usually can't do at an auction.
The tractor was at the Ritchie Auction in Sacramento Ca, and I'm in So. Utah. I did not get to inspect it in person but had a fellow look, and give me a report before I bid. He went out and said guys were crawling all over it and he didn't get a chance to look close but he observed it going back and forth and the bucket and box operating. He did say it sounded noisy and thought it might be an exhaust leak. HA, so much for that...I did score pretty cheap for what it is, even with a new engine, I'm not really hurt too bad, Hopefully this will be the end of my woe...LOL I just need to get'r going!