So I apparently left my ignition switch in the on position on my mini ex maybe a month ago. The 1 year old battery now has 0 volts. A battery charger does not show any charging input. Tried to jump it with my tractor and got sparking when connecting to the negative terminal on the dead batt which I know should not happen. Is there a way to bring this back to life or am I going to the battery store? And yes the water level is correct, terminals are clean.
Sulfation is the classic term for killing a battery.
Try putting it on an old fashioned analog slow charger for a day or two.
Since it did not freeze it may come back some, but guaranteed the plates are damaged from going so low. Try to remember that saving $150 today to blow the starter tomorrow will only cause more aggravation. Starters do not like batteries that drop too much when under load, in other words they need batteries that can maintain high voltage to be able to spin the starter over quickly. If it does not come back to 12.4 volts minimum from charging, and maintain at least about 10.0 volts while cranking, head to the local quality battery store. Simon C
Leave it on a 10A or so transformer charger for a few days and recheck. No electronics, no polarity protection. Caution! You can charge it backwards. After you get it to show 10+ volts you may try one of the electronic pulser chargers. Some say they work, others say they are snake oil. YMMV
There is a place here that reconditions batteries that I had really good luck with. I think they replace the acid and then have a special charger that alternates different charging rates over 24 hours or more. I got a used 8D battery for $80 that lasted 10 years! The original owner of the business was much better and always seemed to have a good stock of reconditioned batteries. The new owner has been out of stock of a couple popular batteries the last times I needed one. I went to a place that sells batteries made in the Philippines that are much cheaper. I think $99 or $109 for group 31 batteries. I'll have to see how long they last. They sat all winter and started the grader started up instantly after sitting for over 4 month's so so far so good.
A battery that's been drawn down to zero for months rarely recovers and if it does it doesn't last long. Kind of like a person suffering heat stroke--never the same again.
thanks guys. I have it on the bench now and will try the charger again in the morning. should I use 2 amps or 10? If I can get some decent voltage into it I have a couple of Battery Minder de-sulfating trickle chargers that I've had pretty good luck with, but it does take some time.
A one year old battery should have warranty. Maybe pro rated (reduced) price, but still not full price for a new battery. I'd just be getting a new one and move on.
I have successfully brought batteries back to life starting on low amperage. Like Willie says, if it has a warranty, take advantage of that but if not, you have nothing to lose.
Especially if charger is solar powered. Franky was started with a bolt of lighting.
I'll play with it for a few days and see what happens, but I suspect there's a shiny new battery in my future.
A fully discharged sealed lead acid battery (SLAB) will be seriously degraded even if you can get it to charge to full voltage. The main problem is the sulfuric acid and lead plates turned into lead sulfate that either falls off the plate and fill the bottom of the battery box causing a short between the cells or stays on the plate as a hardened semi-crystal that doesn't break back down into elemental lead and sulfuric acid during recharge. You'll more than likely be able to get the voltage back up to 12-13v using a strong charger but I doubt the plates will be able to push a safe current during a start. You might fry your starter as stated above due to a weak battery. There was a battery thread a few months ago where we beat to death the option of using AGMs but it covered a lot of same issues you'll deal with on a SLAB. If it was me, I wouldn't risk it and just get a new batt. I think the final consensus was you could get a quality group 31 battery at most truck centers for around $100 give or take a few. HeavyEquipmentForums
Correct. This is a common issue on electric industrial truck batteries because operators will discharge the batteries excessively before recharging. In a charged lead/acid battery the sulfuric acid is suspended in the electrolyte solution. As the battery discharges the sulfuric acid is absorbed back into the porous lead plates. If it remains that way too long it will sulfate the plates. That's why the bohunkin chargers for industrial trucks typically have a "sulfate cycle", which charges at a higher voltage than normal to cook the lead sulfate from the plates, but those batteries are designed for that, automotive batteries and plates really are not.
That was post #2, only to be repeated and beat to death again.
Well, in all fairness, you just made a statement, which was fact, but you didn't explain the "how". Some topics only need a statement of fact, other times become a teachable moment, which expounds on the fact of the statement by explaining the "how it works".
People need to look up the how--otherwise it's all AI or youtube, self help is best with a manual or dictionary.
Thank you for the added info. I assume then that lead sulfate shorting the plates is the cause of the sparking when connecting the negative jumper cable. Had a friend tell me today that he's had some success with dumping the batt and refilling with fresh acid...any thoughts??
Just as easy to install new plates with the new acid. Short video illustrates the process. This is how I rebuild my batteries. I Never purchase new ones
Wait, he's wearing socks and slippers instead of sandals and also gloves! Must be OSHA started cracking down on third world countries.
Alright I better step in before anyone gets hurt here (mentally & physically)! As some know I live off grid, that means there is a battery here I better maintain despite any temperature, condition or how I feel. We aren't talking licking 9 volt battery size we are talking thousands of AH that weigh more than your Honda Civic. So.... first step, take that battery to your nearest auto parts store and get a replacement. You can beat your meat against it all you want, but all you are doing is stroking and not cumming. There is several phases in a PV (solar system) that it goes through to maintain the battery. For sulfation as @Truck Shop is talking about we call that equalization mode in the "solar world", high voltage knocks it off at 15.2VDC and double that as you go up the food chain of a nominal 24VDC, 32 VDC and 48VDC with low as amps possible. Reason I say toss it is the lead plates are so paper thin that there isn't much to recover, you are on the buying time end while risking safety. Now if you were playing with (2) 6VDC or (6) 2VDC batteries then you would be on the winning side. As for AGM, those require different parameters than SLA (sealed lead acid) batteries. By all means don't listen to me.... That's on a cloudy day...
Now return to {engine only runs on full choke} for full story. *
Gonna be one of those days, I guess.
All joking aside, I am amazed at some of the things they accomplish with so little resources. How would we survive without the resources that we have? Sometimes I think they are smarter than we are.
Funny to think, most of us would be lost, if we didn’t have a cell phone charger and couldn’t just go to 7-11 to buy one. Sometime, look at some of the Mickey Mouse stuff they come up with to charge a cell phone on U-tube. We are in different countries but it feels like we are in different time dimensions and we would have difficulty keeping up, if we had to.
Wait, wait- my turn, my turn!!! (...to take a swing the horse laying motionless on the ground.) Insley- listen to Weldman on this one as battery manufacturing has become efficient over the years by using thinner plates to give more current in a smaller form factor. Yes, there was a time when my grandfather would dump out a dead tractor battery, wash out the black stuff with the garden hose, and then was able to fill it back up with a bag of electrolyte solution he purchased at the hardware store and use it again for another season. This was also a time for us when the cost of a new battery was the same as putting food on the table for a couple weeks. The lead plates back then were much thicker compared to today's high amp batteries and handled that method fairly well. In that video posted above, you see how thin today's plates are and how the plates are separated by paper media that traps a lot of the lead sulfate so you really can't rinse them out any more like the old days. You can also see the lead sulfate that did fall out to the bottom and can easily short out a cell. But hey, you do you when it comes to batteries. For anyone rolling their eyes at this repeat clubbing....yes, it's repeating basic info over and over but we're also storing it for the future when someone else in the same predicament comes along and hopefully searches for it. Or better yet when in the future we have AI scrubbing forums like this for expert info and synthesizes it into a video that's directly injected into our brains...
I was pretty sure from start that I would have to buy a battery , but because it is somewhat new there might be chance of recovery. Sadly that is not the case. There is a huge amount of knowledge on here and this has been very educational for me. And really, isn't that why most of us are here? Now as soon as I find my reciept I'm off to the store.
I’m glad you are a good sport about it. Good luck at the parts store. Lift with your legs.
Does anyone store their batteries on the concrete?
Coal now your just breaking it off in the horse
Good one TS
BTW- Is it just my imagination or did a lot of specialty batteries for a tractor, lawn mower, motorcycle, etc. come dry back in the day and you had to add the electrolyte to it? Then let it sit overnight before you could use it? I swear I remember as a kid watching my grandpa installing a battery and then filling it up with the accompanying bottle/bag of acid so we could use the tractor the next morning.
Don't know about back in the day, I'm only 55 and remember doing this with a tractor battery not long after I started driving. So that's only 35yrs ago, but maybe as a country we're just 50yrs behind everyone else.
I swear this country is 50 years behind the developed world in PV products available including batteries. Can't wait til the LiFePO4 battery and BMS programming questions come out, it's going to be a hoot on here!
Back in my early Cat dealership days, all the 8D and 4D batts arrived dry. Had the juice drum full of electrolyte, the stained patch of concrete in the corner and the rubber apron.
Every parts store, every gas station that did tune-ups, tires, brakes {remember those? they even pumped the gas} sold batteries, they were dry and filled there.
Wow...didn't realize dry batteries were that common and that recent. Kinda wish it was still like that instead of gambling a bit on how long wet batts have been sitting on a shelf. I know there's a date tag on batts but sometimes you don't get the pick of litter.
I had to do that with a battery within the last 10 years. I think there's still a little bit of the acid left in the bottle it came in.
Much easier to ship, too.
In my own machines, a weak battery is an expense & a nuisance. I've never had a starter fail because of a weak battery. We sell & service Generac generators. The starters have armature coils crimped at the comutator where brushes ride. Weak batteries regularly ruin starters. These generators typically run unmanned, providing power for vacation homes. When no one is present to notice sluggish starts, the problem gradually gets worse. I preach replacing a battery at 4 years. Motors depend on magnetic choke (impedence) to limit current. Design voltage is needed for strength of magnetic field to hold the current down. When it is weak enough to fail to rotate the engine no work is done. All that energy is heat.
There are only a few people older than me, but one of them told me of changing acid in a battery. he'd dump out the acid, replace it with fresh. He claimed he got 10 or more years from a lead acid battery.
The longest I've had batteries last is 11 years, both were Interstates built by Johnson Controls back in 80's/90's. Both were in same 84 dodge I drove for 23 years. But part of it was the ignition and electrical system was kept in good condition, so over the 11 year periods those batteries were subjected to very little strain also, no extended crank time or draw downs.
UPDATE I purposely did not mention that this was a Walmart battery so as not to derail my own question. Group 24 with a 3 year warranty. Told the lady it wouldn't take a charge. Walked out with a totally free replacement. Can't beat that!
That's great news for you but not so much for the herd of horses that got clubbed on this thread! But seriously, no need to shy away from Walmart batteries in my opinion, especially for a small piece of equipment. I used to think they were garbage but lately I've not heard the complaints like I've heard in the past on my other truck and car forums.
The EverStart Maxx was a top shelf battery, but Walmart did as Walmart does and switched suppliers again. This time to a Best Korea manufacturer and I’m not hearing very good reviews. Was it nationwide, IDK?
I have 8 of them in various sizes in my small fleet. I've never had a reason not to buy another one. Most of them are the higher grade with the 3 year warranty.
If it's working for you go with it.
I mean this with all sincerity , professionalism, open mindedness , and a full on red neck engineering back ground.....what in the actual F ....... I bet that guy is 16 years old and he looks like that from all the toxic fumes and run off slipping thru his sandal'd toe jam. And for the record I'm team store batteries on concrete! You guys who put them on wood blocks are all but flat earthers .
They're all good on concrete till one leaks and ruins your nice floor ....