I am new to the tractor world and purchased a, I think, 1986 JCB 201S; it has these #s on a metal plate on the left side of the roof 86/296UK92AF71593 and 86/295UK92AR71593, it also said that the machine was from England. Initially, it started, but soon after while being used it shuts down. I had someone check it out and they said that there is an electrical problem because the terminal wires, both + and -, are overheating. Felt both wires and he was correct. He did not do any other diagnosis. Now the tractor has a slow crank and will not start with the terminal wires overheating. What could be the problem?
I think you have an electrical problem Up to you to figure out what kind of electrical problem. I'd start with the battery, disconnect the ground cable, put a battery charger on it till it's completely charged, let it sit and check the voltage after a day or a week, if the voltage is still good, try to start it and see what the voltage is with it running. Or swap a known good battery in and try to start it and check the running voltage.
could be the starter is not disenaging
Start by voltage dropping both cables. Could be as simple as a bad connection.
Replace the battery cables
Yeah, like Jimg said, your initial description sounds like the solenoid stuck
Thanks for the feedback. Will follow your advices and update.
It’s a JCB which known for lots of electrical issues. Warm cables should only happen with a huge draw of amperage and a lot of resistance. Think corroded terminals and cables or a starter that is shorting through.
Dont forget the pre heat relay if it has one. I had one of those bit me in the backside.
If there is any swelling of the cables, they are being corroded on the inside. Replacement is the only practical solution.
Not trying to sound like a jag here, your opening statement doesn't give the impression you have much troubleshooting experience. If you want to tackle this head on , we're here to help, guide and coach. The first thing I would suggest is purchasing a cheapy voltmeter from say harbor freight or something. You can accomplish a lot with an inexpensive tool. Perform voltage measurement of the battery at rest, then measure voltage drop towards starter. If you don't understand, say so, we'll guide you through it. When I say we, there are so many knowledgeable members here who want to help. When you post a response, one guy might be at work or half way across the world. There's always someone to pick up and offer the next step. You'll benefit from decades of experience, different points of view and different ways to skin a cat.
Funwithfuel, u r correct, I do not have a lot of troubleshooting experience and have a voltmeter. So, my all means, deligently walk me through the troubleshooting steps. I will not b offended
So, let's cover basics. Check your battery voltage. You should see about 12.5 volts. If you've got a 10 or even 8, we may have one or more shorted cells. That will load an alternator hard. Next, Measure voltage from positive post to frame, then to engine block, then to the starter and last to the alternator. Write down all your results so you can keep track. Now do the same thing but this time measure from battery negative post to starter and alternator. If you see a sharp voltage drop between one reading and the next, it's a good place to start looking. Good luck.
Jack up the radiator cap and put a new machine under it
Thanks.
Well I only ever had to deal with one JCB product, a skid-steer, so I may be biased but I would question the idea of saving the radiator cap!
Look for rust and corrosion where ground wires are bolted to the frame too.
You made it seem easy explaining that. I was trying to think how to explain performing volt drops. You should also have a load on the circuit while testing to help flush out any corrosion issues. Either cranking while testing or a small load from a carbon pile tester. To be able to crank without it starting just remove the power from the fuel shut off solenoid.
I agree, but with limited exposure to troubleshooting and repairs, this was adequate for a first step. I'm waiting to see his results so we can guide him to the next step.
Battery cables are intended for hundreds of amps over a brief period. If you have a meltdown you likely have either a heavy load or a continuous load. Inspect the cables from battery to wherever they go. One is ground, it'll go from battery to the frame of the tractor. Might be a disconnect switch. If it has an insulation failure, it won't overheat. Pretty important all connections be sound. The other cable likely runs to the solenoid. Your machine is British so likely different, but positive is live. From this point it should all branch. My first impulse is a stuck solenoid, or starter drive still engaged, but check for a starter still spinning with engine running.
A starting motor stuck engaged to the flywheel can create a big spike in current in the circuit. It essentially becomes a generator. IMHO.
I agree with Willie B on this one, his first post sure sounded like a stuck solenoid to me.
Might also help if the original poster could do a short video of him trying to start the tractor. Sometimes seeing and hearing what is happening will answer many questions we would be able to answer in a few seconds if there in person. One of the biggest hurdles to diagnosing problems like this is the language barrier, I know 99.9% are English speakers but the real problem can be getting the person with the problem to understand terms heavy equipment mechanics are familiar with when talking about things. Like the basic term voltage drop, can't imagine how strange that could sound to someone with no mechanical back ground! I just hope the poster will keep working with all those who have responded so far. I know that it can get confusing with different people suggesting seemingly contradictory points of view. But it's like if I was to give directions from my house to a place 20 miles away. I could take several different routes depending on how big a hurry I'm in or if it's a sunny day and that lady that like to sun bath might be out in her yard!
Hi funwithfuel, purchased a new battery with 1185CA. Did the voltage drop test as u recommended and the results r: Bat+ to frame = 0 Bat+ to engine block = 0 Bat+ to starter = 12.67 Bat+ to alternator = 12.64 Bat- to starter = 12.63 Bat- to alternator = 12.64 Still get the labored slow crank from the starter and no start. Conclusion: bad starter. The Forum's feedback is welcomed.
BTW, the dealer said that it is a '93 JCB 210S.
We don't need the hundredths digit, but that's fine in case anybody sees a difference. You have either two or four of those readings wrong, so lets start over. Do you have working lights or a heater fan on this machine? Turn them on for the test. Find a clean bolt on the starter, or any aluminum surface on the starter, use that as your starter point, same thing on the alternator. Then see what you have from those to the + battery post. Then find the big terminal on the starter that is connected to the battery+ post, check the voltage there to the clean surface of the starter. Then get a friend to crank the starter while you record the voltage after a second. post those four readings and we'll go from there.
is this a positive earth machine can you check where the positive terminal on the battery connects to if it goes to the frame or to the case of the stater it is pos ground
You voltage drop readings are not correct. If you actually have a 12.67v drop on your starter or alternator you have a really bad connection or corroded cable. The machine would not crank with that kind of drop. I am pretty sure you do not understand what voltage drop measurements are or how to get them. First off you need to measure it in a operating circuit. In your case you need to make the measurements while cranking.
No crank: Alternator+ to Alternator case 12v Starter+ to Starter case 12v Cranking: Alternator 7v Starter fluctuates 8v to 6v 5 seconds cranking video is too large to upload.
Now that's a good number, how about the battery terminals while cranking? if it's the same 6-8V, then you either have a weak battery, bad starter, or a load on the engine.
Possible the engine is partially seized and turning hard, something is dragging voltage at starter turning????