Back and forth on what size machine to buy was planning on a 120-140 series but it's too big for some of the things I want it for a 8-9 ton would be ideal I could go up to about 22,000lbs but i'm concerned about that size for basement digging. I will only be using the machine for building houses, I will not be digging basements for others. So I will be using it to dig the basement, services, backfill, grading, moving material around the site, prepping concrete flatwork etc. I have no experience in this in between size. When I was doing excavation I had a 210 and the machine I still have, my Takeuchi TB153FR, which in some ways would be nice to keep it's been a great machine but I think it would take forever to dig the basement. The two houses i'm starting this year (possibly a 3rd sameish size) the holes will be about 1200 sq/ft and 6' cut, 60' of 6' wide 4' cut for garage, 45' of sewer/water trenching guessing 8' average depth. From what I remember I could dig something like that with my 210 in 9-10 hours, my tak I don't know 30 hours? Never used it for something that size. Would I be wrong to assume a Cat 308, Tak 290, Bobcat e85, etc would take about double the time of a 210 and be in the 18-20 hour range? Ground is clay here and will be after frost is out, I felt like most of the time the 210 was overkill and would handle a way bigger bucket. I am open to any brand I have all dealers close, ideally under $50k but i'd go to $80k for the right machine (i'm in Canada so prices are higher). I don't care about features like blade float, angle blade, etc, just whatever is the most reliable and capable. Or am I better off just to keep my Tak? Other then the basement digging I don't think a 8 ton would be any advantage, and if it only saves me say 8 hours on a excavation it may not be worth the hassle of buying something else.
As small as that is 1200 sf and your only moving 6 feet of a 8 or 9 ' tall wall. I would do that with your Taki since you own it already. If that is the average size of your basements, I would just use that. I have a Taki 257 which is the new version of the 153, and I have a WN ET90 (this machine weighs 21K) and a 160X4. The ET90 is a pretty outstanding machine, but I don't know that digging a 3000 sf basement with 9' walls would be something I would want to do. If your digging 1500 sf and under I think a 9-10 ton would get it done but it would take twice as long at least maybe more than a 160/210. Besides bucket size being less, you will have to rehandle the material several times, unless you have someone handling the material with a wheel loader or something. Whether you wanted to keep the Taki, those things are so handy it would be hard to not have one, but there is a bit of overlap between a 6 ton and a 9 ton.
The other will be a bit bigger, hole size maybe 1400 sq/ft but no garage, that 1200 sq/ft was also based on 4' overcut on all sides which for the cut depth I could likely shrink to 3'. The first two are side by side so the first one will be very easy with tons of room to pile close, other a bit worse. House is 18'x39' so not super deep to be moving dirt, front single attached garage with room to pile front and rear. I have found that for sure with the small machine, it can dig pretty quickly but moving dirt 2-3 times it gets really slow. No one else moving dirt on any of them, extra haul away while digging and rest piled on site for backfill It is a really handy machine and I had it listed for awhile at $30k and no bites just tire kickers wanting it for nothing, I don't think i'd let it go for less then high 20's. At the same time the hard part i'm having is justifying two machines. If I went the two machine route I think i'd want a 120-150 cause the 8 ton would overlap so much and they seem to be more expensive. But doing the math even if I find a decent one at $50k which is on the low side, I could rent one for $625/day, even at 2 days a house that's only $3750/year with 3 houses, anything other then basement digging the Tak would do perfectly fine so no real use for it. Machine would be cash but I could get 5% on that money anywhere, $400 a year insurance any sort of repair/maintenance i'm sure will be $500/year at the bare minimum, the rental option seems to make more sense, one repair on that machine could offset any gain for years and it's not out of the question considering it would be like a 15 year old machine with 10k hours. I couldn't justify owning truck/trailer to move that size of a machine for 3 moves a year so that would be the same either way. But at the same time at $1250 rental, i'm sure like $800 for moving per house, if it took 15 hours longer with the Tak to save myself $2000 that's really not bad. If the 9-10 ton would take twice as long as the 160/210 how much longer do you think the Tak would be? The only machine i've ran in that size was a volvo and it didn't feel that much more capable then the Tak but it was so long ago I don't remember well.
If I were to compare my Taki verse the ET90 in ability to dig a crawl space or something similar, I would say the ET90 is 25-50% faster to dig than the 257. It manages a bigger bucket, its a really fast cycling machine and its breakout force is a lot more than the Taki and I have more reach by a couple more feet. The harder the ground or the deeper you go the advantage to the ET90. I think I would look at it like this. You own the Taki. Its not going to be an ideal machine for all aspects of your project but it is yours. It may take a little longer to dig with the Taki but I would plan that way, if you have a bigger one, rent a 9 ton or something larger to dig the foundation. Here you can rent a 9 ton for about $450. So if your math is similiar there, will a 9 ton save you about $600 (with mobilization) over the machine that you own. If it aint worth it, dig with what you own. If paying $600 is justifiable in getting it done sooner, then rent. I would do it that way for a while and if you decide a 9 ton would be ideal, one machine solution, sell your Taki and get a 9 ton or whatever.
That makes a lot of sense. I couldn't find any rates online for that size but a 135 is $625/day and 6 ton $400-450/day so guessing about $500/day. Appreciate the insight it was very helpful.
Last year we dug out a foundation for a ~1200sf home, 6' deep cut on the high end sloping down to grade on the low end, so roughly half the dirt you are talking about. I used my 5t Kubota U48 and I had it dug in a day, including stripping the topsoil and stock piling topsoil and spoils about 30' away. I used a 3' bucket and had my help running the skid steer moving and piling material. That is the key to any productivity with a small machine, mini-ex never stops digging and ideally only has to swing a 1/4 turn, 2nd machine keeps the spoils away. I too have been looking at the 8-ton machines for a while, but as you stated they are kind of an in between size. Too big to do most 'mini-excavator' type work and kind of small for heavy work. I wish there were still offerings in the 10-ton class like the old Hitachi EX100's. For me that would be ideal, close to 120-130 size and performance but lighter to haul.
Yea I don't get why there is such a big gap between the 8-9 ton and 13-14 ton with most brands. The Cat 310 would be perfect but being Cat and so new they are way too expensive.
There really is no need for an in-between size like that. Either get a 120, or do the job with a 85. Anyone who wants a bigger size than an 85 will just get a 120, and you would be more versatile with an 85 if you needed to drop a size from the 120.
When you simply look at the size of the machine listed in its model number verse what they actually weigh, it makes it look like there is a bigger gap than there really is. The ET90 I have suggests it's an 18K machine. Actually it weighs just under (by like a 100 pounds) 21K. More importantly it handles like a heavier machine and I think most all excavators are heavier than you might think, if you only look at the model number. My Taki 257 weighs 13600, which is about 2000 pounds heavier than a 5.7 ton machine should be if the model number was actually what it weighed.
We rented first a TB260 & then a TB290 while working around a large excavation last year using the Taks to dig the utilities. I initially thought the 260 was going to be the best size due to the tighter areas but that was not the case. 260 Width- 6’ 6” Track length- 8’ 5.3” Front swing radius- (c/l of turn table to tip of boom)- 7’ 11.3” 290 Width- 7’ 3” ( + 9”) Track length- 9’ 4” ( + 10.7”) Front swing radius- (c/l of turn table to tip of boom)- 8’ 2” ( + 2.8”) The reach & capacity more than made up for the less than 1’ more width & track length. If you’re doing a lot of basements, a 160 class machine would be better but I believe for an 1 machine operation for overall work, a 135 is going to be hard to beat. If you won’t be digging many basements, a TB290 would be my choice.
I’m sure re you know this but excavators are measured in metric tones rather than US or Short tons. 1MT is 2,200 lbs. Takeuchi TB 290 is more like 8.5mt or 18,630 lbs. Your ET90 is shown from 19,477 to 21,xxx lbs., so it is noticeably heavier than the TB290. Why does is it as much as 1k to 3k lbs heavier?
It's called model creep. The only real way to gain an advantage over another manufacturer is lead in the pencil.
Yes, I aware they are metric tons but honestly I never thought the difference was enough to matter. It seems most all of them are heavier than the class they are in. I think the ET90 has its weight listed in the lightest possible configuration (probably everyone does that, I don't know), rather than the weight they are most likely to be sold in. My 90 has a thumb and hyd coupler, long stick, additional factory counterweight, hybrid tracks, so you add all that up and it goes to almost 22K.
For me I want a full-size excavator, but with something like an EX100 at 24000-25000lbs I can stay under the 54000lb gross federal regs and still tow it with my tandem dump truck. That would be with a 30k gross trailer. Move up to even the lightest 120 (or nowadays 130) and your at 27,000lbs+ and a 20T air brake trailer, then I'm at 60K+ gross. I know thats not a big deal for most but I try to keep things simple and my overhead as low as possible, the less paperwork, taxes, etc the better.
Our (new to us) Hitachi EX100-1 scaled at 24,200lbs. —-No thumb, no coupler and a 52” Accurate cleanup bucket—- A perfect size for our use… Nice; as was just legal on a tandem roll back. Saved us a lot of mob costs on a long (520km) haul compared to a lowbed. We have a good dealer here for Yanmar, and I like the specs on the Yanmar SV100. A good bit of reach…. Was looking at an 7.5-8ton until this EX100 came up; right close to home….
I think model numbers vs real weight is deceiving in how much difference there is. Most newer 120-130's are 28,000lbs+ whereas the 8-9 tons are 18,000-22,000lbs so there is a ton of actual weight difference. Also with most of the minis being zero swing and swing boom vs a conventional excavator. While i've never ran one, the specs on the Cat 310 are incredibly impressive and appear that it would work circles around any 8-9 ton in a open area being a conventional tail swing and boom. Clearly Cat saw a opening in the market going with this size, well technically they had older models this size but kept changing them and are now back at it.
Look what popped up for sale near me https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/2439583676480526?ref=saved&referral_code=null RB here also has a 2020 Tk 280 coming up soon. Almost like they are saying to buy a bigger machine. The Tak really interests me, a newer bigger version of my machine.
Sany 95 is a 10ton class machine
While back had rental Takeuchi 8/9 ton odd boom pin hole setup, sideshift ,auxiliary nightmare digging was 2nd how it was setup rental yard gave discount instead of a hoe. May have the weight but is dud
Maybe just not use to it? That is the same style as my current 153 and it is a million times better then the traditional swing boom, but it takes a bit of getting use to.
Sideshift was fine I can't remember model big mini but saying was auxiliary it had 6ports on dipper no idea mulching maybe but power was off ie 3 functions bucket,dipper fine but boom,boom had power but reaction was slow odd setup digging that's what I say about digging 2nd it was setup to do something else 1st. It was a couple day rental
Very few people on this site are interested in that Chinese junk, just sayin'
I agree Suladas, the 153/257 is a lot better than a traditional swing boom from an operational standpoint especially in the 6 ton class. I have had 4 of them since 2003. I have never had owned a 280 but I am sure it may be much the same. There are a lot more moving parts, tons of grease points as you know. Having the 257 and a traditional swing boom 9 ton, I can say that on the bigger projects, the swing boom really is fine on the 9 ton and the simplicity of them is also nice. I wouldn't give up the 257 on the six ton. Getting into tight areas, and being able to easily load trucks and its huge lift capacity over a swing boom machine of equal size makes it invaluable to me. Its hard to me to hear someone not impressed with the side shift capability but clearly not everyone digs them like some of us do.
The reaction at the end of the stroke when lifting up the boom will be slow, if you don't have the override flipped to allow the bucket to come up next to the machine. It would not be a great machine to rent unless they rental company informs you how it works. I have had guys in mine that didn't know that and thought it was slow and didn't lift right. Once you understand how the machine works it really is impressive in what it can do. Its like having a conventional and mini ex lift mechanism in one machine.
He mentioned Cat 310 disappear a hole in weight class. Cat had 310,311,312,314 & 315 & price point harbor freight junk use it send it down line
KSSS I need call the guy remember that pos can we rent it again. I'll take min look operator book on a new machine to me try see quirks like that
I always run mine with it set to smallest bucket even if i'm running a 42" and just watch the clearance to avoid that slowdown and that way I can get a lot closer. IIRC the swing boom machines have a similar slowdown though?
Safety parameter I understand that don't put bucket in the cab as fast
That's how I run mine as well. Never had an issue with hitting the cab. The swing boom machine doesn't have that slow down.
If you rent one again or are going to, you can read the operators manual and get it figured out or reach out here and we can square you away on how it works.
KSSS we've both been here on HEF for a time not a school boy but ya new tech is definitely different from hydraulics grab & go
It's not really new tech mine is a 2006 with it. Surprising it just works off of sensors no electronics at all. A lot of other machines have something similar too as a wider bucket can hit the cab. Assuming the newer ones are no different every time you start machine you just need to select the smallest bucket size to get full capability as it auto resets every time it's turned off.
I understand the design for a auger pull the boom back stay inline but digging it's weight not needed & loading no heap buckets in it's foot print so get a zero 5ton can do it bucket close or speed makes difference
I was on Takeuchi when they were teal flooding states
There's a ton of advantages to it, based on your picture assuming you didn't need to dig alongside something the boom should be more to the right, near the position of a regular excavator for normal digging, this is also a big advantage over the swing boom for visibility and even without it being all the way over the boom will raise further then the swing boom. Probably 95% of my time in a mini is the 153 but I will say most of that time the boom had an advantage over a swing boom, there is just so many times it's more useful. Loading trucks, digging alongside a wall, digging close to a low overhang, more height for lifting stuff, etc. I'll take the extra moving parts and greasing for the extra productivity any day. As far as turning around in it's footprint, check how much room a swing boom 5.5 ton needs, i'd guess it's an extra 3-4' at least. I know I rented a bobcat e24 once for some areas I couldn't fit, and that thing couldn't spin around in areas the 153 could. No you can't heap the bucket in those cases, but it's faster then any other machine can do it when it's that tight of an area.
Each has it pros side shift dig a square hole without losing reach & swing post has it own tricks for get around anything is better than ol offset knuckle boom
So I threw my 153 up on FB just to see if spring would be better and had someone commit to buying it for $34k+GST which I feel I couldn't say no to, dropping an extra $40k-$45k to get a far newer bigger machine seems like a no brainer. The ET90 is still for sale and interests me they are asking $80k+GST has thumb digging and cleanout and hydraulic pin grabber so setup nice. It looks in good shape. There's a bunch of 8-9 tons coming up at ritchies from bobcat, komatsu, deere, etc. The one that really interests me is the Tak 290. Looking up the specs the breakout force is almost identical but the ET90 short arm reaches 6" further and 18" further in a long arm and a decent amount more lifting capacity. The swing boom on the Tak is what is making me really lean into that instead. The ET90 is a 2023 with 2150 hours, the Tak is a 2020 with 2900 hours. Tak has a thumb and wedge coupler and digging bucket, clean out bucket is also at auction separate. I would guess it should go for like $70-75k but with buying bucket separate and buyers fee, I wouldn't be surprised if it's the same price as what I could get the ET90 for. I think KSSS could answer this the best owning a ET90, is it a better choice over the Tak? Should I consider any of the others? Like bobcat e85, Deere 85, Komastu 88? I will be doing the 3 basements for sure this year and highly considering some other work with it. I think my biggest thing is what will dig the fastest but lift capacity is also pretty big as i'll be using it to move material, duraform for basement, etc. The dealer support for the ET 90 is probably the worst of any i'd guess, it's switched a few times in the last number of years and the dealer is pretty new into any equipment, but hard to say.
Suladas, check your PM
Bought the TB280FR from the auction for $74k it's more then I wanted to spend but the machine is very clean and really liked how it ran. The wacker sold, they had a older one with more hours for a bit less but honestly they seemed like a nightmare trying to deal with and from the pics the rubber pads were totally shot and at $65k for a 2018 with 3500 hours was a worse deal then the other one.