Hi guys, I haul a 3-axle lowboy dump local only, mostly to quarries, in the TX country with with an F350 drw. The trailer is 21k lbs max, the truck can tow 32k, no problem. I often hear guys like me saying "why didn't I buy a tandem dump a long time ago?" Double loads sound good. So I'm gonna buy one. I'm running fine now, and I can take my time to find the right truck. There's a boatload of Petes out there. I know I want 46 rears, air dump if it's a converted tractor, and 350 hp at least so I can tow a trailer with a hoe or skiddy in a year or so. What I don't know is which motors to look for other than Cummins and 3406 or 3408 Cat. If it's a Cummins L10 then avoid the STC like the plague. That's about all I know. I don't know about DDs at all. I checked out https://infogalactic.com/info/Peterbilt and the models that grab me are 348, 353, 357, 359, 378, 379. Did I miss any? I don't like the looks of aero trucks. Yeah, my choices in the classic market are going to be slim. I might only find 2-3 of these models for sale within reasonable drive time.
Good luck on a 3408 but you would never be late to a job again 3406 is bullet proof not stupid proof cats are pretty decent till you get to the Acert motors Cummins n14 seem solid so does an ism and isx I have never been a Detroit guy but I know guys that wont run anything but Good for you being dead set on pete but you might close yourself off from other decent options I personally would look at kw int maybe ford for the right price The majority of it comes down to maintenance and how much or little they did
3408 in Texas... they used to be there by the bushel basket. I have run a 3408 in the dirt. It needs to have some really stout components behind it. Most of the Texas trucks were highway queens. I doubt there are few engines right now that more expensive to maintain and repair than a 3408. I love them but wouldn't get another. A 3408 in a ten wheeler is a little like taking a nuke to a gunfight. I had a 359 with an 18,000 pound front axle, "4 and a quarter horse" 3406 B ATAC, a 13 later 18 spd and 2spd Eatons. I bought the truck new in 86 and sold it 99. I did the roll in the rod bearings at 250,000 as recommend by Cat at the time. We got in the engine at 500,000 when it broke a ring. Beyond that, it was pretty much trouble free. Air dump?? I assume you mean tail gate? I had no idea that anybody still had a handle on the gate except one ton mason dumps. Find a well maintained truck that was built to be a dirt truck. I have seen very very few "converted highway tractors" that are worth anything as a dirt truck.
Detroit DDEC 3 or 4 12.7L standard rating 435 hp can be rated to 470 and up to 500 hp, torque rating 1550 to 1650. The 12.7 liter in early DDEC 3 GK series up to 1998 470 max, later DDEC 4 1998 and up 500 hp. The 12.7 is about as reliable as it gets. And any DDEC 4 14L 550 hp will set right in place. As far as Cat goes any thing in 3406 5EK up to C15 2003 Any of the N14's are good but on a re-rate a 370 hp from factory will only re-rate to 435 hp. Personally I would stay with electronic engines. 3408 is heavy and to expensive to repair plus damn near any six cylinder will out perform it in torque and hp these days. Most OTR trucks don't have the axles and frame for a dump, do some smart shopping. As far as transmission a ten spd in Texas will work fine.
It's not a Pete but it's a classic!!! Put about 200 miles on it yesterday hauling gravel. I would hate to part with it but you bring a nice thick envelope of cash and you could drive her home!!!!
I drove one of those forever ago a 270 and a 10 speed. Heavy steering but wore like concrete.
I see a red IH with a mid tag axle and day cab. I forgot to mention that I'm 6'6" so cab room is important. What's the motor, tranny, rears, etc? Never been to IA yet. TX is so big that you can drive all day and still be here. Regarding air dump, what I mean is that IF it's a converted tractor with air bags, it's got to have air dump too, or the bags get abused when you tilt to dump.
It has 6-71 Detroit with a 13 spd trans and IIRC 4:11 rears. I'm 6'1" and there is plenty of room for me..... 6'6" might be a little snug.
I just checked this one out. 1986 Freightliner Dump, Cummins Big Cam 4, 400 hp, 13 speed. Converted from tractor, still has slide lock on dash, but simple leaf springs. Tach and Speedo both inop but 240k show on the odometer. Needs work on dump cylinder, which leaks, and a lot of TLC for loose wires that need to go neatly into split loom. He says gears are long and 13th is good for 75 mph, which I don't need. 60 will do. Started up real quick, sounds good, but the owner has let insurance lapse so doesn't want it driven, even to a shop for inspection. Nice guy, but I think I'll pass at $12k. If he keeps lowering the price as he says he has then I might take it. I didn't set out to look for a Freightliner but he lives nearby. Also, the seller tells me that they have roomier cabs than Petes, and I'm 6'6" Do you agree about Freightliner cabs being bigger? I do like the Cummins. No leaks on it, just some sweatin oil. Course it hasn't run regular for months so who knows how much it might leak if used daily.
I am going to be pointed... because I feel it is important. Air Bags are not an acceptable suspension in a dump truck period. Not sugar coating it. Go ahead and do it. Just make sure you carry an extra pair of underwear. You will need them the first time it goes on it's head or threatens to.
That cab is quite a bit roomier than a Pete cab, I've had both. The 12064 Freightliner is not a bad truck if its been taken care of. Check out the dump cylinder well, if the stages are "washboarded" or scored it's cheaper to buy a new one than to try and repair the old one. About $1500 for a new one. What does it have for spring suspension?
It is mountainous here and air bags are used on dump trucks all over. Just saying.
I've dumped over banks at an angle with Hendrickson and nearly had one set of duals hanging in the air. No way in h$ll would I get close to the edge with air bags. They are ok for road dumps, but for real dirt work... no thanks. Even heavy 4 spring Reyco would be better than bags.
Thanks for the cylinder advice. My son worked heavy equipment repair for a while and said "ugh" when the guy mentioned repairing the cylinder. Same guy has a backhoe sitting in a pool of hydraulic oil, not even working. He's not Mr Maintenance, shall we say. Real nice guy though. As far as the springs go, I just saw leaf packs back there with a rocker in between. Pretty much classic. What should I look for? I'm just learning big trucks but have been wrenchin on stuff since I was 9, first minibike.
Some folks really like the Cummins 855 Big Cam https://www.capitalremanexchange.com/best-diesel-engine-list/
Those guys are a little too enthusiastic on their best/worst list there. You are going to have to take each truck as it comes. You may see 9, 10, 11, 14 liter engines from all manufacturers, some were good, some bad, along with various combinations of transmission and suspension, just take your time.
4 springs with a short equalizer in the center is probably original Freightliner, possibly Reyco.
Most all of the heater/Ac controls and vent door air actuated parts are not available for that early FL cab anymore. Salvage yard only. Rear suspension is probably Freightliner spring and most of that was only rated at 38,000 lb, if it was Reyco 102 series it could have a rating from 40,000 to 44,000 lb. The best rear suspension for a dump is Hendrickson 48,000 lb-- 60" spread extended leaf walking beam. It is the most stable and has the best traction of any suspension because of the 60" spread. I know loggers that run 60" spread, would walk right out and past one with 52" spread that was chained up. Canadians liked to spec their off road with SSHD drives and 60" walking beam. Need some photos of that Cummins setting between the rails for a look see, to note which series BC 4 it is.
If I was looking at a dump truck, I'd want 46k rears, full lockups, 4.10 ratio. Neway air ride, heavy steer axle, heavy single frame (double frames spread). As for power, can't go wrong with an N14, 3406/C15 or a 12.7L Series 60. Definitely an 18 speed or at least a 15 speed.
Where do I look to find out if the axles are 46k, 48k? Full lockups means locking both left/right and f/r on the tandem, right? Axle ratio, I'd look for a tag on the pumpkin. Worst case, jack up one side, mark the diff, turn the tires. Heavy steer axle, how to judge that? Look at 100 trucks? Single vs double frame, must be visual inspection. Are my assumptions all correct? Is this an accurate diagram of Extended leaf walking beam? Or is this Hendrickson page more accurate? https://hendrickson-intl.com/Truck/Vocational/RT-RTE Is the "spread" the width between the U-bolts on the leaf packs at the axle pad? So, seems logical that wider would be better for stability. But frame width would dictate how much spread is possible, right? Where would I look on the truck to see if the rear suspension is FL or Reyco? Numbers cast into shackles etc? I'll get some pics.
I'm going to be the voice of dissention/ reason here. He's in texas. I know he could get a 60" spread shipped in from logging country, but I doubt that he is ever going to see conditions that need that, and chains. He also can safely have a double frame, because he isn't going to see the salt/ snow/ ice freezing conditions that ruin a double frame with rust, like in alberta, illinois, upstate NY or the snowy mountains out west. If he's running back and forth to a quarry for some stone, hauling dirt off his jobsite, or just pulling a pintle and a backhoe, the super heavy duty stuff is overkill. Are 46,000 rears better than 40,000, yep, sure are, but there just aren't very many of them around. Is a walking beam rear more robust than air ride, oh yeah, but I kinda doubt he is going to be in a quarry loaded with 30 tons up and down a hill all day. In fact, if he's like most guys by me, it will spend more time on pavement, than off pavement. I think we are talking about more of a "standard" use rig, he's getting by with only a pickup right now. Could he get something that would be the terminator of dump trucks? Sure, but I don't think his use is near what a lot of you guys see in the severe applications. So- since we're all giving free advice, I'll throw mine in , Anything late 80's to early 2000's. Any earlier than late 80's and your into antique/ restoration guys parts prices, and more difficult availability, and past early 2000's the emissions get worse. Double frame would be nice, heavy single frame is good too. Spring suspension is more durable in bad conditions, but ride much worse empty. I would bet that in my area there are more dump trucks that are converted road tractors, than dumps that were ordered from the factory with specs for severe dump duty use. Do they hold up as well, no, but they get a lot of use. Air ride is not nice on a slope, but I don't know where you're at in texas, but a lot of it is pretty flat. Only you know what your local conditions are. I personally like spring over walking beam vs four leaf in a spring ride. Anything from 3.90 to 4.60's for rears. If you find the perfect truck for you and its got 3.55 rears, you're only $2,500 from a set of junkyard gears at 4.10. I'd be more interested in a heavy front axle than super heavy rears. I'd prefer 40,000 rears to 38's, but a 20,000k front is really nice if you are going off road, and it makes it much easier to scale than only a 12,000lbs front end. The 15 is nice, a 8LL is nice offroad also for the low hole, especially spreading while unloading. Really, a 9 or 10 speed is fine for most use, the 9 vs 13 only gets you splits of the top gears, which is nice if you are running hours on end out west and need a split on a long grade, but for short around town work, you won't need all the splits. I think a 18 is also overkill for tandem dump use. As far as cab's go. I'm also on the taller side, but not super thick. (6'6"- 220's). I own a western star, peterbilt, international, freightliner, two fords, and a mack, and fit in all of them. The western star is probably the nicest of the trucks as far as build quality/ interior noise/ not rattling, but its also the newest one I own. The old fords I really like on jobsites for visibility, and the mack is really nice too in that regard. I think the older ford 9000's and the mack r are more durable jobsite use cabs with their steel doors and heavier built interiors. The western star needs its window down a crack to shut the door. My pete is a 379 short hood, and its had some miles, but they hold their value, and peterbilt is great for parts. Visibility and room are good. I've never driven a w900 kw, but the t-800's the bottom of the dash hits my shins in the daycabs. My international is a 8100, and its really cheap inside, my shin rides on the side of the engine cowl. I much prefer the more square style cab internationals, (9100-9300) they have a lot more room inside, and are better built than the 8000 series internationals. I absolutely despise all cabovers, both for getting in and out of the cab, and room once your in there. I've driven both KW and international cabovers, the KW's are impossible for me on the road, I just can't get behind the wheel and my foot up on the clutch, the internationals are better, but I wouldn't buy a cabover. I dislike that style of freightliner cab, (that you posted pictures of), I think the visibility is terrible for a jobsite truck. It seems like all I can see is 30' ahead of the truck and the hood. But I'm not a supertrucker either. Engines, I'm with everyone else, 3406, big cam/ n-14 cummins, detroit 60 series. Fuel Mileage isn't much different than the smaller engines, and you won't regret it. The only "smaller" engine that I would recommend, is in a mack (10l) , the torque curve is really nice in a city/ offroad application, under 60-70,000lbs. Expect $5,000 worth of repairs on whatever you buy. Have $10,000 available because you might need it. I don't care who inspects it, anything used with age, is going to have something come apart. I prefer something that's been being used vs something that's sat in the weeds for 2 years. As far as pricing, dump trucks have gone up by me, I don't think his 12k asking price is out of line for the older freightliner, it gives you some $ for repairs. I'd expect to pay between 15-25,000 for something late 80's to late 90's, that is in fairly decent shape. If its much under $10,000, its going to have serious things wrong with it. I personally wouldn't give over 20k, because I don't know that you really get that much better of a truck when buying, at 30,000 than at 20,000. But I would fix the problems myself, so for someone with limited mechanical skills/ or a shop to work on it, a $30,000 really nice truck, could make sense for you.
(Moved in from another thread so I don't hijack his thread, which is morphing into dishonesty by a local repair shop now) Great info, thanks. "accept four spring suspensions as good" is that just simple leaf pack for each axle, shackles on the end, rocker in between, and eye on the front? The FLC 120 I saw nearby has that. I did drive a Ford but found it cramped and rough ride unladen. After reading up on Navistar, I developed a skin rash seeing what jerks they are as a company. I love the 444 in our pickups, but jeez IHC sued everybody even Cummins and never played nice. Maxxforce...ugh. Which model KW are the Construction designed trucks? Confused about your double frames comment because elsewhere folks warn that double frames rust and split, I should go for single heavy frame. Does that tie back into a truck that was initially built for dirt instead of OTR? I'm already rather informed already about air ride and air dumps. I won't consider air ride without an air dump setup. Hendrickson walking beam is better (but I don't know how to spot it yet). I suppose the wider the spread, the more stable the truck on uneven terrain and while dumping. But doesn't frame rail width dictate how wide the spread can be? Does that tie back into a truck that was initially built for dirt instead of OTR? Again?? I live in the Hill Country and we do get hills here. Rocky soil, limestone the size of cars, black soil on top in places.
I appreciate the dissent. That FLC 120 seller says he's had it on Fakebook Marketplacedumpsterfire for 3 months and lowered the priced a lot already. It's ensconced in his back yard, back street, TX tag only good for another month, so I can wait. I'm going back these evening to take pics. We do have rough terrain here in Central Texas aka Hill Country. Lots of caliche limestone, naturally-occuring granite/limestone gravel, and black soil that will swallow you when wet but hard as rock when dry. This particular FLC has no left/right lockers and that's a worry. Locking only F/R you still only have two certain drive wheels. I'm a 4x4 nut, did trials competition, and I love lockers. As you note, most driving will be on pavement, however my job sites are never pavement because I build/repair gravel driveways. I owned a cabover MBZ 2031 rolloff tipper and yes I despised it too, but that was in France where conventionals are rare as hen teeth. I will buy a conventional this time but visibility is an issue as you say. I had a little upchuck when I read that Renault bought Mack. I hate Renault, state-owned crap. Mack cabs do have good visibility at the quarry. We're all in perfect violent agreement on engines, it seems. My rank is Cummins/Cat/Detroit in that order with Detroit way behind because the patriarchy, man. Seriously, it's unfamiliarity that ranks Detroit low for me. As for IHC/Navistar I recently read up on their bad faith business dealings over years and years and that made an impression. I will climb into a 9100-9300 though and see what I can see. I tried a Ford but ride was terrible empty and cabin cramped. Seller said parts are getting scarcer all the time. Most guys I see at the quarry run older single-frame tractors converted to dumps. Some even still have a sleeper on them. Could be OK for that short siesta after sandwich but before coffee thermos. Saw this one today, tags expired in April 2018, pics show N14 but text says Cat and Detroit, who is he trying to kid? Might be a scam. https://www.commercialtrucktrader.com/listing/1997-FREIGHTLINER-FLD120-5009154283
The Navistar company of yesteryear was hardly any relation to the one of today so if you find the right gear and it happens to be an International truck, don't count it out. I liked Fords back in the day but they are orphaned since 1997 so unless it is a screaming deal and real good shape approach a Ford carefully. Detroits 4 cycle engines were never real popular around here, but all I ever read about the old Series 60 is how great it was, just makes the owners money, and Truck Shop said as much some posts back, he is not the only one saying that, but don't get all hung up looking for the perfect engine, just post it on here and they'll tell you good or bad.
I’ll chime in....lol Unless it’s a site truck being used almost like an off road dump a converted road tractor will be fine. 90% of the trucks around be are that and do just fine. Most issues I see are rear suspension bushings and air bags from FOD. The majority of air ride trucks will have a dump valve. Don’t pass on one that doesn’t, it’s easy to add. Double frame isn’t bad, just look for rust jacking. The age you’re looking at if it’s going to do it, it’ll be doing it already. Stay away from trucks that ran in salt/chemicals and you’ll be ok. I’ve run a lot of older double frame heavy haul trucks, restored several heavy spec trucks and it’s not necessarily as bad as it seems. Full lockers would be great, 40k rears are fine. Earlier 38 and 40k tears aren’t as stout as later model. Get into the 90’s and they tend to be a little tougher. Any trans will work with the right rear gear and most will not work with the wrong rear gear. 8LL, 9LL or 15 speed is hard to beat in a dump. I’d look at the overall package vs a spec or two not meeting your standards. Focus on the harder to change specs first and worst case you can fix the piddly stuff to your liking.
Anything that has a integrated sleeper been converted to a dump truck will likely be light framed, especially a freightliner, that will twist and distort as well bust crossmember and gussets. I changed four spring packs and replaced leaves in them almost WEEKLY back in the day when dump truckers here preferred cheap to functional, hard to make money when sitting awaiting repairs to keep TX Dept of Safety(TDOT)off your butt. Broken cross members will park you where they find them as will busted spring leaves if to an excess, freightliners have been known for busted frame rails as well. This becomes pick your poison, choose wisely and do well, choose cheap and usually spend money faster than can earn. Old Mack with a duplex or even a Eaton 9,10 or Deep Reduction 15 you won't go wrong, Sterling is more orphaned than Ford and is the run out of the Ford line. KW W900 is going to have a LOT of hood in view ALL the time, T800 is the commercial or industrial version. Pete 379, 359 are Old School conventional Small cabs aluminum hoods, 375,376, 377 glass hoods similar small cabs basically same truck. What ever suspension you get if Air Ride will want a Vocational Type otherwise will side roll pretty severe loaded as in corners, those Air Leak suspensions were designed for dragging trailers down long stretches of well constructed roadways. 24.5 rubber will get you a LITTLE extra clearance but check the tire suppliers on prices, most common is still 22.5 centers. As others call them on here Minnesota Mags are Dayton Cast Spoke wheels, if not acquainted on Squaring those up when installing or the tire shop just drives them on with a 1" rattle gun you will get to enjoy wheel wobble, Budds make life easier for ride but if have to pull a wheel yourself may not have tooling to get that done. I will likely always have a soft spot for L series Fords and S Series IH trucks, were my mainstay alongside Macks back in years gone by. Aluminum cabs do not seem to hold up as well to the flexing(Newer are doing better) steel seems to manage a lot longer and Spartan a lot less to deal with as to crap just falling apart.
Thanks for all that advise, guys. I'm digesting it. Lots of FLs dumps for sale in auctions, I'm noting. That's consistent with them not holding up well to heavy use. Could be the reason. The guy selling the white rig I posted above, who claimed N14 then Cat then DD all in the same ad, has not answered my email. Imagine my shock.
You don't want a sleeper truck for a dump truck. Losing frame rail space and not gaining bed length. These pics might help you identify some suspensions. 1st is 4 bag air ride. 2nd is 4 spring reyco. Third is spring over walking beam. Fourth is camelback spring mack. You may run across some rubber block suspensions if you find a converted a old concrete truck. There's quite a few 8 bag kw air suspensions around also, they will have 4 bags per axle.
This last picture is a hendrikson rubber bushed walking beam. No springs at all, just pivot up and down and the rubber bushings. Mack has their own version of a walking beam that you see on some old concrete trucks also. Super tough, but not known for a smooth ride.
CO, Texas has nothing to do with it. He either wants a dump truck or a pseudo dump truck. Every two months someone comes on here want info on buying a dump truck and some of the it will get by for this much for this price is bad info in my book. Now I posted 48,000 lb rears as an example of what a real dump truck would have for rear suspension, spec-ed that way from the factory. 80% of what is for sale in used dump trucks are pretty much garbage. They buy whats available close by for the cheapest. Then in a few months their pouring money down it's throat. The reason Freightliners are so prevalent is there cheap and have lousy resale value. Air ride will work but it was not originally built for construction rigs and dose not hold up under heavy use. Dump trucks are like fork lifts-used and abused, rode hard and put up wet. Lite specifications are just that lite, every component was designed for X amount of weight and flex. Go under some of those OTR trucks converted to dump trucks and check the crossmembers, bolts and rivets, most are cracked all to hell in two years but no one notices because there covered in dirt and mud. There isn't a OTR thats converted or has air ride that the center crossmember on the rear suspension that doesn't have issues in a short amount of time. Those rigs are a DOT mans dream- get out the ticket book. 44, 46 and 48,000 lb Hendrickson was designed with extra long webs and flanges to cut down on the cracking. {Your last photo CO is called beam biscuit] Plus there isn't a dump truck that isn't overloaded on a regular basis, last load of the day- well they really need 14 yards of pea gravel {I think I can carry that in my 12 yard box}. I should have been a DOT inspector, I would be following dump trucks all day.
Talking suspensions, I don't know anyone that regretted a Hendrickson in a dump truck, but I certainly know a few that regretted getting a cheaper air ride. We have 3 Ford's, 2 Mack's, and 1 Volvo set up as dump trucks for hauling grain and forage. The Ford's are all Hendrickson and are very stable field, road, farm, everywhere. The Volvo has rubber block and is built like a brick outhouse. It's planted firmly to the ground. The Mack's were converted road tractors that are still on air ride and they absolutely have limitations off-road. We damn near tipped the first one we bought on its very first trip in the field. The Mack's do well, but you have to plan your route differently off road and they have limitations. We pretty much thought we made a mistake after that first incident about the air ride.
That aside, I don't see much love for Mack trucks in this discussion. Both of our Macks are mid-90s CH600 series with E7-350 engines. One has a 15 speed, the other a 9 speed and both trucks have way more power to haul a heavy load than necessary. The Ford's are all rated at 250hp and they get the job done well. The Mack's just get there a bit faster with the bigger engines. Our Volvo actually has a 7.6L Volvo engine with Allison automatic, California orphan that a broker towed back to Michigan. Not a powerhouse, but it moves 500+ bushel of corn quite effortlessly really. We also have an '89 Ford tri-axle with a 7.8L Ford engine and Allison with a 15 yard dump bed. Not a huge powerhouse, but it reliably starts every day of the year, hauls a full load easily and can tow our 16 ton excavator in our hilly region just fine. We aren't setting records climbing hills, but we get the job done safely and fairly inexpensively. Lots of ways to make a dump truck, but I agree with Junkyard. Figure out the most critical, hard to change parts, then adapt the rest of the truck to your ideal. A platform you are comfortable in is where you start. Then shop those models for the specs you want/need.
The outfit I work for owns 10 trucks, they all spend a majority of their life building logging roads off highway year round. They are all Kenworth W900s, mostly converted log trucks so are heavy spec. 6 are long hoods. 1 has extended leaf Hendrickson, 2 have AG 100 Kenworth 8 bag, 2 have Chalmers and the rest have AG 460 Kenworth 8 bag. Having driven them and maintained them all my choice hands down is AG 460 8 bag. By design they articulate well, the bags don't wear and blow from mud and rock building up around them and they are easy to rebush the top arms when they need it. The lower sway bars are a bit of a job but they don't give many problems. They are also stable. 460 means they are 46,000 lb rears, AG 400 is 40,000.either are fine. The AG 100 is less stable and the lower bars wear out the center bushings faster, also the bars wear and are expensive to replace. Chalmers is good but rides rough empty. If you go Peterbuilt air ride I would look for Air track and stay away from air leaf. Reyco springs aren't very good in my opinion but will work. Hendrickson walking beams are kind of the standard in the industry but are big and heavy when it is time to replace broke springs or rebush them. Truck Shop has an awesome write up on how to do that by the way! They generally are probably the lowest maintenance out of everything. Don't know if that helps but don't rule out air ride if it is in a heavy spec truck.
RTE 480/48,000 lb Hendrickson suspension.
Thanks, those pics help a lot. You're right about a sleeper. It seems silly, as if the dump conversion ran out of time or money. I had a close look at a 4 bag today, and if "spread" is what I think it is, I see how moving the bag perches ourboard of the frame rails, as in this photo, can increase spread. I also had a close look at a 4 spring Reyco, or something just like it. A mexican mechanic nearby, who happens to have wrenched with my son a couple years back. has an FLC 120 on his lot in much better shape than the one I posted above for about the same price. 4 spring Reyco on it. I'm beginning to notice a lot of FLs for sale. I don't know who named the 3rd one springover Walking Beam cuz for me it's a rocking beam. Very easy to see how it works. Lateral and longitudinal location is done by those huge leaf packs. Or is there a torque arm in there as well, off camera? The last one looks like quarry truck stuff. Robust as heck, but must ride like the dickens on the empty trips to the quarry.
A 60" spread means the drive axles are further from each other. The air bags stay under the frame rails. The drive axles being further apart, allows more up and down movement of the separate axles, to maintain traction in bad environments. You won't see very many. They mostly appear out west, or from up in canada. The last one is what several of my cranes have, some I have are bronze bushed, some rubber. I don't get any empty trips to the quarry. Thanks to truckshop, I now know they are beam biscuit, I learn something from him everytime he posts.
"Spread" is the distance from the center of the axles front to rear. Has nothing to do with component location. "Walking beam" is what the old timers have called it forever. One tough setup, the only torque rods locate the top of the housings against... Torque. "Robust" usually means "rides like ****". Cant have it all.
I disagree with air ride being inadequate for heavy, off road use. Every single modern tridrive built uses air ride. Almost every heavy haul truck I see in the patch and the bush has air ride. Its more than durable enough for 98% of trucking operations, provided its the heavy duty version and not the wimpy 40k lb setup.
I've seen this setup on Mixers and crane trucks where the pivot brackets for the beams are bolted solid to the frame and there is no pads other than the bushings in the beams, very harsh ride empty, but tough as nails with huge loads.
Ahah! I had spread the other way in my head. Now it makes sense. The longer the spread, the longer and beefier the Walking beams need to be.
I thought they did follow us around all day!
There are a number of parts combinations that have a low maintenance profile and fly down the highway and offer a fabulous ride for the driver. If I was hauling in the Canadian bush in the ore transportation business. I would be running on 8 bag air. I have run 8 bag on a big block KW in front of a belly dump train which was fine flying into a project and dumping on the run... when I owned my own I must have been doing that 2% of work in the dirt that requires Chalmers or Hendrickson extend leaf. Because most other combinations don't have enough axle travel or are spending half the day crow hopping around the job.
I wish there were a way to rename this thread. I'd take out the word "Pete" because now I know more, Peterbilts are not the roomiest cabs.
Have a 359 tractor to dump conversion. Having a lot of frame trouble. Had it gloved and now I see the glove has a hair crack. Also have cracks in bottom rail where the spring hanger sits. Be sure and go over the frame with a fine tooth comb on any dump truck your looking at.
Didn't mean that I "liked" your issues, just meant that tractor conversions have their problems. Is yours on air ride?
Yes. I get along OK with that. Had it about 12 years. Just have to remember it has limits. I have never driven anything else so I don't know what I am missing. I know a slight sideways slope and a load loaded to one side can be pretty risky. So far I have stayed upright. It used to sway pretty bad on the road and was kind of squirrely. Front end just 12000 pounds. I put Timbren rubber cylinders on the front and it made a world of difference. I think if you stayed on smooth surface you would not have any frame problems. But you know how that works with a dump truck. Places you see the raised bed sway over and you go----eeeeee, then it goes back the other way and you go ----eeeee again. Trying to spread on rough ground. Your looking for a little even track to keep the outside tires on if you can find it until you can get the weight slid down some out of the air.
This is my take on Hendrickson VS air ride... With air ride dumped down to the axle stops you are stuck with solid suspension. With the Hendrickson walking beam you can drop your left rear duals in a big hole and the other 3 wheels will go up to equalize and maybe keep your truck near vertical with the world. Airbags on the stops will put you in a bad lean. Hopefully the mirror bracket gets the worst of the damage.
IMO on a 15' or 16' box it's a pretty moot point as far as dumping. If you're on a bad enough angle that you have a risk at going over with bag suspension, I wouldn't be dumping a truck regardless of what it has for suspension too hard on it. Having driven both quite a bit I never once had a issue with the bags where I thought it was anywhere close to going over and i've dumped on some pretty unlevel ground. Now a 30' end dump, yea it better be pretty level or it's going over, but had bags too and with common sense never any problems. One massive advantage to bags that I haven't seen listed is loading the truck with smaller equipment like skidsteer, mini ex. You save so much time having the box that bit lower. If I was buying a truck and always loading with small equipment I wouldn't even consider non bags unless the box sides where very low. The extra loading time will add up fast.
All this talk about laying a dump on it's side on uneven ground. That's why there is a thing called the {cross gate belly dump}, for spreading you just can't beat it for long distance without speed bumps in the spread. Grader operators like'em too. The problem with air ride is once it starts to lean depending on where the ride height valve is located {or ride height valves some systems use two} the valve can cause the bag on the high side to help jack it over. Lets see KW 8 bag air { 8 bags $125.00 bucks apiece, air lines to leak for MR. DOT, air bags that start leaking and hard to find in the recess fold area, ride height valves that leak and can get out of adjustment, four torque arms that take a beating every time you dump the air, lower torsion bar bushings to replace, center stands that can crack and last but not least rear shocks to replace. Plus the u-joints don't like the angle when the air is dumped. RTE 44, 46, 48,000 lb suspension, only has six main beam bushings that cost around $475.00 bucks. 2 fore and aft torque arms, four if it was spec-ed with lateral arms to keep the beams from moving side to side. And two springs with bushings in the front hanger. Beams can be re-bushed in four hours, torque arms 35 minutes each. Universal Services in north of Seattle use to change out and rebuild a complete set of beam bushings and torque arms in two hrs on appointment {while you wait} for $1,500 and you were good for a bunch of miles and years of operation. No air leaks, no shocks, no air bags----no excess garbage. In my not so humble opinion. And with the addition of both rear drives with lockers you will go just about anywhere you want.
Unfortunately on most public funded projects, that had soils engineers working full time to justify their existence. Most (not all) cross gates went the way of the white rhino in the mid 80's in favor of winrows. The reason given to me was aggregate separation in the fill. I suppose the thought was that having a machine massage it on the grade redistributed the fines and rocks into a better material profile. Have seen a few cross gates in the woods and in transfer gigs since but were pretty rare on job sites. In New England since I have been here I have seen exactly... none. It seems that belly dumps are virtually nonexistent. I saw a side dump the other day and almost took a picture of it. I have seen maybe 3 side dumps here.
There's still some of them here, but not a whole lot. The problem is they are so limited in what they can haul. Most material here is hauled with truck and wagon or tractor with end dump so they can haul so many different things.
Followed a asphalt bucket home from Washington MO, two lane old State Hwy. Saw more of his left bed side in straight pulls uphill than wanted where the drives were running the white shoulder line and L Steer was bumping the centerline. By appearance was Hendrickson, either had full out bushings failed or side shift torque rods just junk dog tracking in pulls so hard, down hill on brakes would straighten back up so he was enjoying the ride. Of course Tandem, twin steerable air pushers, believe a Western Star cab, entire fleet doing the pavement haul was scratch and patch messes, ratchet straps holding hoods, 100 mph tape retaining all manner of lighting, various states of decay as the fella I followed home and Not a damn DOT in sight.
About 10 years back a customer brought me a truck to install a grain bed with hoist. The truck had been stretched to his specs by the used truck dealer, it was bent... The shop that did the stretch put an extra inch of frame rail on the RH side. Guess who had to fix it?