Just wondering what brand/type of grease everyone finds to work the best for pins and bushing to prevent wear on there heavy equipment.
We use Kendall ToughTac. It contains 3% Moly.
We use mystic JT6. I do a lot of custom farming and run six john deere tractors and six hay cutters, two round balers, a and three square balers. I also have a john deere 328 skid steer, and a D4G dozer. I don't have any problems with universal joints on cutters or balers or anything. I baled over 10,000 round bales this year. I am very pleased with this grease.
Swepco makes a nice grease, but it is expensive. I use Castrol because that's who we use for our oils to. The castrol is nice it has some tackiness to it, but it's not to sticky.
I'm using Schaeffer's synthetic and am very pleased with its performance.
chevron ultra duty grease, seems pretty sticky
I use the same stuff that Steve does. I works great and lasts a lot longer than the other stuff we were using(Castrol if I remember)
We use Shell srs4000. A special grease, lithium based i mean, EP and NLGI 2 standard. A very sticky grease, thats extremly water resistant. Was primerly made for boat axles.... Stay's in place for ever, compared to other types. Is also available as SRS 2000, a bether solution for cold areas. I have heard the 2000 variant is used by the Canadian railroad companys.
What brand of round balers do you have? John Deere would be my guess. How do you like it? Does it do a good job? How do you like your skid steer
I use Amsoil HD synthetic, but it is expensive. Otherwise, it's Chevron.
Nearly any grease containing 3-5% moly is far better than most other greases including the synthetics for pins and bushings in most construction and mining applications. I used a Texaco product for years and had exceptional good service at a very reasonable cost. Texaco types include: Texaco Starplex Moly MPGM 3202-5 and Texaco Molytex® EP NLGI Grade 2, 1 & 0. The MolyTex was my grease of choice. But Mobil (now EXXON) and Shell also have excellent moly greases and there are others on the market. Caterpillar has a fine moly grease, but it's expensive, especially the Artic grade. It offers nothing the cheaper molys don't. Synthetic greases are largely a waste of money. They offer no better protection, generally are not as tacky -- which you need so as to keep the grease in place -- and as I said, they are costly. In several tests I ran, the standard Moly grease outperformed the synthetics every time. At the mine in West Virginia, I bought Mobil Moly in 600 gallon bulk packs. We had a pump and hose setup so we could easily transfer the grease into the tanks on the four lube trucks we had there. Other places mostly brought it in by the 55 gallon or 400 pound barrel.
Texas Refinery Corporation's TRC red grease is one I've used quite a bit. It seems to do well in applications like bucket pins where there is a little bit of lateral sliding. I've also used black moly grease (can't remember the brand) that cost twice as much and wasn't nearly as tacky.
Some of the brands mentioned might be a little hard to find in Canada. Across our entire fleet Petro-Canada Precision Gold Synthetic is used exclusively, seldom is pin and bushing problems from the grease, operators not using the grease is our main problem.:bash
Amen on the lack of grease. Almost any grease is better than none at all, a common problem no matter where one goes I found. TRC products are excellent in almost every respect. They make a red gear oil that I used a bunch of some years ago that left me with a healty respect for the companies products. But it is expensive to use, so one learned to sample those compartments and lengthen the PM intervals before changing it out. Bought that in bulk packs also.
I have a 467 and a 468 John Deere round baler. The 467 is three yrs old and has 14,000 bales through it. I traded in my 466 and got a 468 Memorial Day this year and ran almost 7000 bales through it already. I Have replaced two bearing and the slip clutch on the 467 and that is all I have done to them. I would have no other baler but John Deere, but my disc mowers are New Holland because they are easier and cheaper to work on. My 328 skid steer I love it, I have an 84" tooth bucket on it and it is not tipsy at all. I lifted a pallet of baling wire with it that weighs 3960 lbs. No problem. The only thing I don't like about it is when you first start it it blows a lot of white smoke and spits and sputters for about ten seconds or so.
Don't worry about the white smoke and how is runs, they all do that it is good for it belive it or not.
I use Chevron Black Pearl, seems to do OK on the 623 hitch and D8 ripper pins.
cenpeco
Mystic
Schaeffer moly grease and oils all the way.
i use the same grease it works very well ,but its tough to grease ur machine in the winter time ya got to keep it in the cab for a while because its tough to get it out of the gun !!!
Citgo #1(cold weather) Extreme Mining Grease.
lubriplate
Li'l trick I sometimes use when it's cold out is to stick the plain jane metal type gun in the exhaust stack for about 5 minutes to warm the grease. Works great.
Lucas Red and Tacky exspensive but good
A general tip for grease is a small ammount fairly often. Auto greasers or concientious reliable operators always help in this regard. Different brands may be better in various conditions but zero grease means high wear....C ya...Ray
I was using Lubriplate #1242 (white grease) but found that i would pound out, this is after I was using Swepco (which was expensive and would not flow unless the sun shined on the gun). I am now using Lubriplate with moly, and that is perfect, not to expensive yet doesnt wash out or pound out. Nice and tacky........... like a soft caramilk bar on the dash in the sun in Arizona!
iswear by texas refinery lithplex
mystic JT-6 for most everything. seems to work good, time will tell on everything.
We get the workshop to make a mount in the engine compartement to hang the grease gun in. Preferably in the hot cooling air from the engine. Gives us no problems in the winter, when u need greasing after a day's work. Grease guns in the cabin mostly give u grease in the cabin too...
Irving moly in our Autolube systems. Irving EP premium in our Ujoints and bearings. In our silt handling machine and our mini we use cat ultra 5 moly.
we use ep2 it works great
I use a good quality moly based grease (lucas pennzoil Synthetics). something i do and can get messy till you get a good system worked out is to buy a bunch of powdered graphite and mix int the grease. it adds quite a bit more lubricity to the stuff and seems to help keep dust out of it too since it has been saturated with powder already, except this powder is actually lubrication! graphite grains are also slightly bigger than the average dust grain helping to keep the dust from wearing into the metal.
Welcome to Heavy Equipment Forums mrnick777! :drinkup
Just started using a moly-grease with graphite. So far, I really like it!
chevron ultra duty grease, ep 1 in winter ep 2 in summer. This stuff is really tacky, for years we had ran mobil's construction mining grease (summer and winter formulas) this stuff is less tacky but still very good. we would still be using it if our mobil dealer hadn't decided they only needed our business when it worked for them. We also use syns & molys but only on special things: over size breaker, certain crushers, blast hole drill, etc. Family runs small limestone quarry
I like red tacky greases in the summer and moly grease in the winter. The tacky grease seems to hold really well on pto shafts and U joints in the heat. the Moly seems to retain it's flexibility better in the winter. We used to use Mystic JT6 and Mystic Moly grease in the winter. After finding out that Hugo Chavez owned Citgo and Mystic greases, I couldn't buy his products in America with a clear conscience. I know that one ranch in CO dropping his products won't make any difference to him, but after hearing his comments toward and about our country, it does to me. Mystic has taken all reference to being owned by Citgo off their packaging. I started on a search for a new grease and I found the Valvoline Crimson to be just as good and cheaper. I honestly can't tell the difference, it is just as red and just as tacky. I've also heard that the Lucas red grease is very good and tacky, but much more expensive. I find it curious that all red tacky greases are high heat and the exact same color, I mean identical, does any one else find that a little bit strange? I wonder if there is one processing plant in Houston making red grease, and putting the same product in different packages and laughing at all of us saying that this red grease is so much better than that red grease?
We changed over to Mystic about ten years ago. A lot has changed in ten years. I just made the move to Mantek grease. They are a gease company not a fuel company. They carry patents on there grease and spend a lot of time and money on research, development, and quality control. I am using Mantek Elite. Multi-purpose, heavy load, extreme pressure, high temp grease in an aluminum complex base with moly and graphite. A little pricy but I can not handle down time. I'm very happy with it. The sales man is not pushy or a pain in the ars. Mantek.com. Ii
My Dad used to say " It 'isn't the type of grease, it's the lack of it that's the problem".
I use shell retinax. I've always thought it was pretty good.
I use Lubrication Engineers 3752 Almagard. It's really good stuff, and really expensive. When I sold my industrial supply, we had a lot of it in stock that misteriously didn't make the inventory list:beatsme. I don't know if I'll pony up the $$ for more when I run out. We also sold a lot of the Lucas Red N Tacky and Mystic JT-6. As people became aware of the Citgo connection to Mystic, many tended to choose another product like Lucas. I tend to agree that any ol' grease applied frequently is much better than a premium grease rarely used.
We use Sonic molyguard grease from CO-OP on our farm machines. It's been excellent, anything greased with it lasts really well. The base isn't very thick, excellent winter grease.
http://www.valvoline.com/products/commercial-industrial-products/grease/74
:drinkup yep the best grease in the world is no good if left in the tube.:bash
All I use is the srs2000 and feel it is pretty good stuff. They have summer and winter types if we dont switch soon enough on the stick of the track hoes, and it turns cold you can't pump it through the tubes. Also like some one else said earlier "it is not quality but quantity", I like to see grease comming out of the pins, not all over the gun and in the cabs
Anybody using the Conoco Philips stuff. I have recently changed to the Tacna. http://www.conocophillipslubricants.com/brands-products/conoco_brand/greases.aspx On a side note, its interesting just how many big branded products these guys make.
I like the red stuff LE made back in the 80's & 90's ... really sticky stuff... it was messy but it stayed where it was put, you would pull of the zerk and little stings of grease would stretch for about 2'.. I have a pictures of the cranes when I was on the job. Building an office/lab addition... Back in the early ninety's.. I'll look for them
canadian I am from Canada. We have store named «Canadian Tire». Anybody have any suggestion with the brand they sell. From what I read, it should be grease with added moly and moreover used the gun often:cool2 Dany
Cat recommends Moly 3% Extreme pressure We have shifted over to a 3% moly grease from Cat and have seen a marked improvement in the life of our bearings and pins.
Thanks Rod, I will go with 3% moly in the futre on my Komatsu pc 75 Dany
there used to be a schaeffer rep that used to sponsor here, and i kind of beat him up a little bit on the additional expense for his product over what i was using....were he around now, i'd apologize, it was pure ignorance of his product on my part that made me spew my misinformed opinion. we just had a young man give us a demo on his schaeffer products...right along side what we are currently using, and thinking we were buying the best available....the difference was incredible...we ordered a barrel of the motor oil, and 30 tubes of the gun grease just to try out. if they perform any where near the demonstration given to us...we'll be switching.
red and tacky:usa
i use shell retinax cmx2 contains moly and very tacky good grease!
Lubriplate 3000 Thick nasty stuff mainly use it on pto splines, fifth wheels it dosent pump into any thing else easily Lucas red and tacky for everything else Lucas heavy duty. just started using it . The container said for use where frequent greasing is not possible or neglected . Well see how it works for cables and chains I've been using Belray cable and chain lube . The best I've ever used ! 6 months and it looks like you just applied it.
Amsoil Heavy Duty and Off-Road Grease Hello I am an Independent Amsoil Dealer and I just wanted to say you should checkout the video on Amsoil about the HD grease. Very interesting test, shows a lot about the grease. You can either keep your normal grease interval and use 50% less everytime or extend your grease interval out twice the original time. Checkout this link http://www.amsoil.com/storefront/synthetic-grease.aspx Get with me if you would like to purchase and I can tell you how to get the Amsoil products at wholesale prices. Thanks Jayar
I'd rather use Mary Kay .
We use Irving products http://www.irvingoil.com/pr_business/pr_lubs/prodsel.asp?inid=2&catid=17 Lubex Syn Lubex CG
Wow Everyone has an opinion. I'm not saying your wrong but do you have to be so harsh? Take a look at the video I am not telling you to use it I am just putting it out there for everyone to see. Thanks for your input.
I run Amsoil in my truck and race quad and see no reason there grease shouldn't be just as good, although I do use Shaeffer's. The Mary Kay comment has me confused as well. There's always a place for varying opinions based on everyone's experience, but that post doesn't help me one bit.
Cat420 Contact me if you are purchasing Amsoil from a retail store. I can tell you how to receive Amsoil at wholesale prices. Thanks Jayar
Any type of Heavy equipment pins/bush 5th wheels anything that "slides" one should use a 5% Moly fortified aluminum or calcium-sulfonate complex thickener base grease,it's very sticky/tacky stays where it's put HIGHLY resistant to wash out/pound out applications not like a Lithium base that will actually mix with water and wash away. the new Amsoil Off-Road grease is very good as is Schaeffer's #238 Moly
I hate that Mystik is owned by Argentina but their red grease and gear oil has given me excellent service for 20 years so I am scared to change.
Grease for pins and bushings Grease that is good for pins and bushings in not even recommended for use in U-joints. u-joint and wheel bearing grease must be lighter and have much higher temp ratings than pin and bushing grease. Pin and Bushing grease needs to be thicker so it does not get pounded out. I use Mobile CM with Moly for pins and bushings. They also have mobile CMW for winter use but I don't buy that. I use Mobile HP with Moly for U-joints and wheel bearings. I also use Mobile HP for pins and bushings in the winter as Mobile CM seems to heavy to use in the Winter.
Grease that is good for pins and bushings in not even recommended for use in U-joints. u-joint and wheel bearing grease must be lighter and have much higher temp ratings than pin and bushing grease. Pin and Bushing grease needs to be thicker so it does not get pounded out. I use Mobile CM with Moly for pins and bushings. They also have mobile CMW for winter use but I don't buy that. I use Mobile HP with Moly for U-joints and wheel bearings. I also use Mobile HP for pins and bushings in the winter as Mobile CM seems to heavy to use in the Winter. Mobil has gotten very expensive however.
Shell SRS2000, recommended by Shell rep. Says it is their top seller around here.
no offense but yea...he wouldn't say Amsoil...lol and that grease is sub par very average here,,many better..
Which grease is Sub Par Shell SRS2000 or Amsoil? Usually Amsoil is too expensive for me.
No the shell im talking,,that's a red grease right?? if it's the same stuff it was crap IMO washed out pounded out mixed with water it was terrible. for years now we use Schaefer's #238 outstanding grease. search back i got a post explaining better.
I was at the Shell depot to pick up some Rotella 15w40 for the diesels and some Rotella T6 for the Duramax, so I figured I might as well pick up some grease as well. (was recommended Shell SRS2000 for use mostly on pins and bushings). If it is that bad a grease what do the experts here recommend? It has to be available locally (Sudbury, Ontario, Canada) and I don't intend to buy Amsoil until they come out with a superior product that sells at a reasonable / competive price. My equipment is old but in relatively good condition, paying for amsoil won't make my pins and bushings any tighter, I'll have to do that in the shop. If I had a brand new machine, I might be tempted to use a premium lube, but in my experience, pins and bushings wear no matter what grease you use and greasing regularly is more important than the brand of grease. I'll post back when I've had a chance to use the SRS2000 for a while.
read my post #61 highly recommend it,,you can buy it on line reasonably priced and a little goes a long way,you'll find you grease less often because it stays put. you want a Moly fortified grease,,5%
ive always used the blue castrol and feel it work well. nothing fancy but it gets the job done.
If you read my post I said I wanted to be able to buy it locally, I don't want to wait a week if I run out before I am supplied with grease again. There is also a 5% moly version of SRS2000, the catch is it costs 40% more. If I am not satisfied with the SRS2000 I may give this a try. Has anyone found a cost/benefit analysis on the different grease products out there, done by an independent tester? Which grease produces the best results at the lowest cost?
A simple constant inventory check would cure that no? i'm sure you do that with your other supplies?? and if you have a dealer located by you(zip code search)he'll have it hand for you and no it don't take a week even IF you had to order it. here click the link and type in your zip code and see if you have a dealer located by you i'd bet you do.... http://www.schaefferoil.com/dealer_locator.html IF not here is a great web site that will ship it fast..... http://www.speedpartz.com/oillubepage.htm this grease is reasonably price and out standing performance.
Ok guys I've read over the replies and now I have quesitons, is this basically a ford, chevy, dodge debate as to what one is the best, can we summarize the different catagories grease falls into and who makes what and who just labels the tubes, I'm thinkng that the one who said maybe all red tacky grease is same and only have different pachage on the outside more like the case but I don't know. Are we comparing chevy to chevy and the only difference is the paint color on the outside, I agree with norite and asking about an independant tester done any testing on the different products. I understand the moly thing and have used moly and yes I like it and I'd also have to agree with the synthetics are only higher priced I've used lithium grease and several others as well, I'd agree that some grease does some jobs better but does anyone have a cheat sheet so to speak as to what does what job. My oil/grease supplier told me years ago that the only basic difference between grease was the basestocks use to make it and the addatives put into it, so red grease was the same as any other red grease except for maybe an addative here or there, is this true? I'm not lookng for a sales pitch but more of an information pitch on grease. Please keep the replies coming and thanks for the interesting reading so far a lot of these names I've never heard of before.
I've put more customers on Shaeffer 238 and all they want to know is where to buy it. When i first started using it i noticed that a lot less bearing failures in my customers grain drills ....Shaeffer 238 won't pound out.
If you read back i explained why my recommendation is ideal for this kind of use. I'll cover it quickly again.... 1st...anything that "slides" like 5th wheels,,backhoe/excavator ,payloader pins/bushings,,drive shaft splines,,or even tie rod ends anything with a high load application/requirements etc,,etc,,etc.. you want a Moly fortifyed grease..you ask why?? well because Moly(Molbdenum)is a very good,excellent anti wear additive ok,and in these situations that's what is needed and wanted, obviously. 2nd..IF your looking for a good grease that will repel water hold up better against wash out and pound out and lets you grease LESS often your going to want a grease with a better base(thickener). Now most your common greases are going to be a lithium base(a thickener that will yes actually mix with water), yea it gets the job done but not ideal for this kind of use your going to want a aluminum or calcium complex base(thickener) this stuff will not mix with water has extra tackifiers in it to able it to "stay put" and not dry out wear off. three greases that i have used are all covered under my above statement and are excellent grease with high timken ok load ratings. http://www.amsoil.com/storefront/gpor2.aspx http://www.schaefferoil.com/238_moly_grease.html http://www.trclubricants.com/grease/moly880crownandchassisgrease/moly880crownandchassisgrease.html
daman, I have researched grease for a long time and came to the same concussion as you. You need to have moly and a base that is not going to mix with water. The problem I have with calcium is it does not mix well with some other greases that a person might have been using previously and could be hard to remove (tracks, house gears) before switching to calcium. I use aluminium complex with moly from a supplier in western Canada. You cannot get Schaeffer in Canada for a reasonable price unless you have a local user or buy large quantities. For some reason aluminium complex with moly is not an easy find in our area. In the past I did use a red tacky aluminium grease without moly and found it lasted about half the time of the aluminium with moly before the bushings started to clack.
Hi nobull1, yes our friends in Canada are usually stuck when it comes to certain things unfortunately, so them guy's have to use what is available for sure or pay the price for the item. as far as compatibility you are correct some greases don't play nice together but from what i have found out is just keep feeding it in heavily eventually you'll get the old worked out.
If a person really wanted to use calcium they could use a cheap lithium grease, if not using already, before using calcium as they are compatible. Unfortunately the aluminium and calcium are not and could cause lubrication issues which is why I have not used calcium. The test for aluminium or calcium with water is to put some of your grease in your hand and add a couple of drops of water and try and mix. Aluminium and I believe calcium will not mix but lithium will easily and change colour.
Correct i was going to put that in my post but thought i was lengthly enough. yes it will mix as you said.
I have been using LUBRIPLATE No. 3000 Tacky, Moly-Lithium Type, Extreme Pressure Greases
Just an update about Schaeffer grease in Canada. I sent a couple of emails to Schaeffer and was contacted by a rep in Ontario. He sent me a case of 30 tubes on account to my door. It couldn't have been easier and the price was reasonable. I am now converting over as my guns run out.
What formula did you go with? good for you it'll searve you well.
I went with #238 #2 as it seemed the best for my applications. I will just have to have a tube or two around of non-moly aluminium complex to be able to do my trailer wheel bearings.
Synthetic-Grease.com Hello Everyone, I would like to tell everyone about this new synthetic grease from AMSOIL. This Polymeric Grease is far superior to lithium grease because the calcium-sulphonate tickener withstands washout and pound out far better. I would encourage you to at lease check out the site, watch the video of the test and maybe try a tube of it. synthetic-grease.com Please let me know if you have any questions. Thanks, AMPRO
I have had pretty good luck with Frontier Performance Lubricants out here in California. They make a heavy duty grease called Silver 70. I have found that it works really well for multiple aplications such as bearings and pins. Its expensive but I think its worth the cost. I use it on my D8 and I have yet to have a problem with it. Its about double the cost of Chevron grease but it stays in alot better. Has anyone tried Frontier products?
Synthetic Grease I am glad to here you have found a product that works for you. One thing I would be curious to know is how the product stands up to pound out. This is just one of the areas where the AMSOIL Polymeric grease tends outperform all other greases. Take a look at this video and let me know what you think. Thanks, AMPRO
We use Irving's Lubex EP-2, seems to work great
I have may have missed any reference to Thixogrease from Power Up / Maryn International in Calgary. It has been spec'd by Boeing and Bell for use in some of their helicopters. Companies like these do extensive testing before certifying anything. So if they're satisfied Thixogrease has the performance and safety issues covered then use in land equipment is not an issue.
anyone familiar with Silogram? Specifically TR77?
Pins and bushings, first off, you should have or be using hard chromed pins.... If not, get some and you will be ahead of the wearing game. Whether pins for connector links or king pins / king bolts for your axles. Get HARD CHROMED PINS. Working industrial maintenance for years, we used lube reserviors on lots of machine bearings etc. They work like bearing buddies for trailer wheel bearings. Always keeping some pressure on the grease to replace any that leaks away etc. They have spring pistons (like the BB's) and keep lube available even if they are missed on a regular scheduled lube job. The reservoir keeps lube available at all times if normal lube is pushed, beat, or washed out. They come in many sizes so check your supplier, Grangers, etc for what is available. Might help with your wear problems. They can be used anywhere a zerk fitting is used, On that axle to keep those king pins lubed too. Hope this is useful in some applications, There are lube (grease) and oil reservoirs so use the ones that fit your application needs
Does Amsoil make anything like that?
there is not a one grease fits all. Grease does different things, high speed low load, high load low speed, shock factor, temp factors, lots of other things. Different complex grease serve differently as well as the additive packages. At Trapper coal mine we use Belray 8626 on all the heavy equipment, 3% moly? heavy load low speed. Tried other greases and always come back to belray, its aluminum complex which is alot different then the other lithiums most others are made from. I know the shaeffer is lithium semi synth I think it has moly. Both are EPs which is why neither will pound out. Ill have to see if I can look at the product sheets and compare them. It would be interesting to see the timken test and the viscosity differences. Reminds me eveyone has there opinions but look at the data sheets for everything your looking at Timken for high wear 4 ball test for weld and speed vs pressure the higher viscosity the better additive packages (moly)
Make sure you research before mixing greases!!!! Calcium sulf doesnt play well with others, dumping lithium over it or viseversa can make glue! Mixing thickeners can rip a machine in half
Calcium sulphonate plays well with most other thickeners I have a compatability chart for greases if anyone wants a copy. Just email me [email protected] Also, for operating temperatures between -40C and +250C there is a "one grease fits all" product. Contact me if you want more information.
Thixo, You mean something like this http://www.finalube.com/reference_material/grease_compatibility_chart.htm Any grease that works -40 to 250C might work but if your going to be able to pump it through a automatic grease system at low temps its going to be 00 or at least a 0. Usually the the base stock on arctic grease is very low visc. You take a grease with base viscosity 70 centistokes at -30* it will drop below 20 centistokes at 70*. When the above chart lists thickeners as borderline the wrong additive package can make it incompatible.
I realize a "one grease fits all" solution doesn't help your business. Our clients have proven our solution to this issue so we'll go with their exeriences and results. In the chart you supplied it seems to indicate your comment "Calcium sulf doesnt play well with others, dumping lithium over it or viseversa can make glue!" is 100% inaccurate. Either that or you should make up a new chart that supports what you want others to believe.
I have found this thread to be very educational. Nothing is better than first hand experience. Looks like I will be using different grease on our equipment. Thank You All
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bqvq5IHjHTg this sold the bossman man on sight, he bought a pallet of it!
old1 - what grease did you choose?
deerefan - ASTM has testing protocols for all useful characteristics of a grease. "pound out" would be a standard test if it had any value.
Kinda wondering how it doesent have value, every time a hoe bucket applies force in any direction that force is a pplied on the pin therefore on the grease, trying to force it out aka "pound out". Most ppl have seen the famous shaeffers ad with the hammers witch is strictly focussed on pound out.
I have so many stories about grease over the years that if I posted them all here it would probably double the size of this thread .......... I'm not going to read the whole thread again so my apologies in advance if some points have already been made. Here's my thoughts. I'll say here and now it is awfully hard to select one grease that will fill all your needs, unless you're lubricating just a couple of machines. In my present job we use 4 different greases for different applications but then again we are looking after about 100 pieces of equipment on one job site. 1. What is the application..? Slow moving, heavily loaded pins & bushes that don't rotate 360 degrees (Loader pins, ripper pins, etc) are better lubricated with a moly-based grease. 3% moly as a minimum, 5% is even better. Low speed rolling element bearings would be better using an EP lithium complex grease. High speed rolling element bearings (such as fan drives) are better using a specific high-speed bearing grease. These greases are often (but not always) synthetics. 2. How is the grease applied..? Hand grease gun..? Power grease gun..? Automatic lube system..? Each of these forms of applications needs potentially a different fluidity of grease - the NLGI Number, so that you can pump it into the bearing and for it to stay there until the next time you grease. NLGI 000 would be for super Arctic temperatures up to a NLGI 3 for desert application around 50 DegC. A hand-applied grease would normally be an NLGI #2, an autolube would often be a #0 or a #1, but it's very much dependent on ambient temperature. Of course if you hand apply the grease it needs to be less fluid (more "sticky" or "tacky") because it might be 4-8 hours before you grease again, where an autolube system might be greasing every 15 minutes. As a comment here a lot of people find it totally amazing that a manufacturer can produce 6 different grease viscosities from NLGI 00 to NLGI #3 all using the exact same ISO VG 220 base stock . The difference in fluidity all comes from the additive package. 3. Mineral-oil based grease versus synthetic..? The high quality mineral oil based greases I've worked with from companies like Exxon-Mobil & Shell are every bit as good performance-wise as synthetics such as Molub-Alloy in my opinion, and usually 30-50% cheaper. I went away from synthetic grease a number of years ago except for some very specific applications (fan bearings are one) and am more than happy with the results. 4. Water wash-out and corrosion resistance. If you're in an area where there is a lot of rain or your equipment works in lots of mud you need to consider the resistance of the grease to being washed out of the joint, and also the resistance to corrosion. 5. Heavily-loaded pins. These would be pins on machines like large front-end loaders, big excavators, shovels, etc. A high-performance grease is essential for these pin/bush joints. A lot of my experience is on Cat 994's and similar wheel loaders. We found early on that 5% moly grease wasn't cutting it on its own. We soon came to the conclusion that what was required was a grease that could maintain a lubricant film under extreme loads in 24/7 operating conditions. Here's where the "4-ball weld & scar test" comes in. I won't bore you with how it's done. See ... http://www.luboron.com/pdf/4BallTestDescription.pdf if you want details. Basically the test gives a result in kilogrammes, the higher the number the better the grease film will resist shearing in the joint and keep the pin and the bush apart, even if it's only by a couple of thousandths of an inch. The length of the scar before the balls weld themselves togehter is also a sign of how well the grease keeps the metal surfaces apart. Now most typical NLGI # multi-purposes greases will have a 4-ball test load of around 315kg. High performance greases will often give 5-600kg, extra-high-performance greases will be around 800kg. We found that greases with 5-600kg 4-ball numbers were not doing the job on big loaders and went to an 800kg 4-ball grease. When you might be talking of $3-5000 per pin, plus bushes, plus downtime, plus machining, etc, you can't afford to make mistakes with grease. The relevant numbers for everything listed above should be on the spec sheet for the grease. If I couldn't find ALL of them I wouldn't even consider buying that particular grease. I will tell one story here. I visited a mine site where they were having lots of pin troubles on big wheel loaders. They looked well-greased on the face of it, plenty of fresh grease visible, and all the diagnostics on the autolube systems showed that the pumps and injectors were all performing as they should. Head scratching time ....... I asked them " What grease are you using" "A special grease from Mobil" was the answer It turned out that the grease they were using was one called "Mobilgrease Special" (well it was special, it said so right there on the barrel...!) When I looked at the tech spec for it. NO moly additive and a 4-ball weld load of 315kg ....!! Reading the spec sheet it was designed for automotive lubrication on things like a pickup truck. In fact that's how Mobil marketed it but because the customer had gone out to tender for greases accountants not maintenance pros had made the decision what lubricants to buy. At least we found what was wrong and why they were having so many pin problems. It must have cost them close to $100,000 in parts alone before the problem was sorted.
hi new to the site i love it so far, i worked for a golf maintenance company we had shopped around in the grease area for the best the rollers that hold the height of cut run constantly in the morning dew anybody that said there was better and resisting water we tried finally found that chemsearch made a lithuim that held up little pricey last year we had a schaffers salesman stop and get us moved to there 238 ultra duty way better than anything we ever tried best part had to be couple weeks ago a new chemsearch sales man stopped thought he would prove the 238 mixed with water, mixing in his palm the water and grease five mins go by and hes wondering how to get it off his hands, later he returned with a sales manager that was on a ride along that day wanted to do the same test the salesman looked at his manager and says "you really don't want to do that " the manager had the most confused look on his face
When the ASTM comes out with a "pound out" test then that will indicate they, and the rest of the grease lubricant industry, see any relevancy in this property for a grease. It seems only 1 or 2 companies try and sell their grease based solely on "pound out". How does "pound out" relate to the lubricitating properties of a grease?
If you are still interested in a superior grease for your application just let me know and we can discuss the details.
Greasypin - If you are still interested in a superior grease for all your golf maintenance applications just let me know and we can discuss in more detail.
where pretty happy with what we have now for the course equipment, but im personally looking for something to grease my buddys harvesting equipment with that a little less in price for him
If its for harvesting does it need to be non tox?
Does your buddy rely on his harvesting equipment for his living? If so, then the price difference between a proven, high perfomance grease and a grease with lesser perfomance will soon be forgotten when he has his first avoidable breakdown.
superlube it has PTFE which is teflon slickest thing known to man!
It really is worth spending on a quality grease in my opinion. Personally I have had excellent results with Omega 77 bearing grease . Although for a cheaper alternative I do think that some Mobil products are good.
The PTFE (teflon) / encyclopedia said slickest thing known to man. The superlube brand grease w/ptfe in it done their test with 40 brands of grease and the superlube grease/with teflon.They some how put a bolt with a nut on it in a vice and put 4000 lbs of pressure on it ,they turned the nut and bolt 1000 times and stoped the test cause it never galded, The best grease w/ out PTFE in it only,they turned the nut and bolt 8 turns then it galded, Another thing I noticed when SLICK 50 had Ptfe in it I changed the oil on my diesel truck and put slick 50 in it and it ideled up 200 rpms higher ! Im sold on teflon(ptf
I use AMSOIL Synthetic Polymeric Truck, Chassis & Equipment Grease in the summer on both my trucks and backhoe and in the winter I use AMSOIL Synthetic Polymeric Off-Road Grease 5% Moly.... Works great just the AMSOIL Synthetic Polymeric Off-Road Grease (GPOR2) (NLGI #2 - 5% Moly)
While everyone's raving about reducing friction using PTFE, Teflon, and all sorts of other weird & wonderful additives, think about this. What is the purpose of a grease (or any other lubricant for that matter) ..? If you answered "reducing friction" in my opinion you would only be partially correct. A lubricant also needs the capacity to maintain a film in between two metal parts to keep them from contact and thus producing galling. Metal-to-metal contact is what kills your pin/bearing setup. So you need a grease that will hang in there under extreme conditions. So in reality you need a grease that will not be squeezed out from the joint under the load of normal (or maybe abnormal depending on how good your operator is) operation. For that you need to look at the 4-ball weld test numbers for the grease. The ASTM D-2596 4-ball test takes 4 balls (well duh....) holds 3 of them in a fixture and rotates the 4th one while applying pressure to it. A sample of the grease is put in between the balls. The load is increased until the grease film fails and the 4 balls are welded together. The point at which this happens is the "4-Ball Weld Test Number" in kilograms for that grease. Most of your common-or-garden greases have 4-ball numbers between 250 & 350kg. What we use in large equipment has a 4-Ball number of 800kg. Notice the difference...? For slow-moving, heavily-loaded pins & bushes I would always use a grease containing 5% Moly disulphide. A few examples mentioned above: AMSOIL Synthetic Polymeric Off-Road Grease 5% Moly - 620kg+ AMSOIL Synthetic Polymeric Truck, Chassis & Equipment Grease - 620kg minimum. The Omega 77 bearing grease mentioned above does not even quote a 4-Ball number. It's also worth noting that greases designed for high-speed rolling element bearings usually do not perform well in low-speed high load applications.
Double post - sorry ......
Nige I agree with what you said. Im guessing you've worked in mining, 800 kg 4ball is not an unusual spec for equipment. I think people get the wrong idea about synthetics when it comes to lube. Synthetic greases are needed for wide temperature ranges. If you get lower then -20* then you may need to look at synthetics, on the heat side mineral grease will do just fine unless your in an oven. Also the tests people come up with are crap, unless its a ASTM sanctioned test. I get a kick out of companies that invent tests then compare THEIR product with a test they made up to show THEIR superiority, thats marketing not a superior product. You need to look at the full picture with grease, lubricity, EP if necessary, water wash out, copper corrosion, rust protection, what speed, what load. You can excel at any of these categories and show a test showing how awesome it is, but you need to look at the other categories as well and see if what your using is really the best thing for the job.
It appears we're both thinking along the same lines. I was a big fan of synthetics many years back when it was impossible to get a mineral-based grease with 4-ball numbers of 600kg and above and for it still be pumpable in temperatures well below freezing. Bel-Ray molylube SP-4 was my favourite and it is still an excellent grease today, if a tad expensive. During the last decade or so there have been a major advances in high-performance mineral-oil based greases and a number of them have come on to the market that give 4-ball numbers of 800kg+ (for NLGI #0, 1, & 2) and in excess of 600kg (for NLGI (#000 & 00) and are still easily pumpable in auolube systems at temperature down to -20 DegC & below. They give just as good performance as synthetics in my opinion and at much lower cost. If there is a big swing in ambient temperature then you maybe need a different grease in winter to what you need in summer. Big deal, change over when the weather gets colder and back again in spring. Sometimes a single synthetic grease can give enough temperature flexibility to avoid the need for the changeover of greases for different seasons, but figure out what it's costing you extra to buy and suddenly it might seem a very expensive option just to avoid the need to have to change greases twice a year. To select a grease I basically look at the following: - 1. What is the application. High-speed bearings, low speed bush/pin, special application.? 2. How much load does it need to carry..? 3. Are friction modifiers like moly disulphide desirable or not ..? (For example rolling element bearings do NOT like moly.) 4. Is it going to work in a water-based environment - in other words does it rain a lot..? 5. Is corrosion a factor..? 6. How is it applied..? Manual or automatic system. Answers to the above will guide me to the best grease for the job. Amongst the major brands I have no prejudice towards one manufacturer over another, I'm looking for what will perform well in my application. Depending on geographical location you may find some of your "preferred" greases are unobtainable in the area where you're working. Based on past experience there are some manufacturers whose grease, while it may seem up to spec on paper, just doesn't cut in when put to the test. I try to avoid using those greases if at all possible. As you say there is so much bull talked about greases, especially by the smaller producers trying to make their own little niche in the market. I usually refer to them as "Moe's Bait, Gas, & Grease Shack". There may well be a place for these guys in the world of lubricants, but with all due respect to them it ain't my place ......!!!
Garrie here from Queensland here, whats the problem shipping to Australia?
Another very good grease is the Lubriplate extreme pressure 1200-2, it seems to stay in place longer, especially in pins, bushings, turntables, and bucket pins.
I am currently using the Valvoline with moly and we've tried other brands, like the Texaco moly and Top 5. They all seem to be a decent grease, but it seems to pound out of the pins of my excavator (Deere 800) quite easily. We're digging blasted shot rock in 30+ feet of salt water with a heavy tool package (8' stick extension and a 60", 5 cy bucket) so we needed something that could stand up to those conditions. Of course we grease the machine every day, but it doesn't take long for a machine with that weight and power to squish the grease right out of the bushings. I recently tried some Green Dot High Impact grease from Chemtron and it is pretty impressive. It is for high impact applications and is highly water resistant, which is what we need. It is visibly thicker, and strands like chewing gum. We used a couple of tubes in the bucket pins, and after a day of hard digging, hardly any of it had pounded out of the bushings. It's quite expensive, but when you consider the importance of lubrication, especially in heavy underwater digging, its worth it IMV. I have now ordered 4 buckets of the stuff and will report back soon on the results. Here's a link to the spec sheet: http://www.chemtron.com/uploads/products/tech/CT-705-GREEN-DOT-SUPER-IMPACT-GREASE--TDS.pdf
If your getting pound out you need a better thickener base grease then just lithium,the moly is great and what you want but one also needs a good thickener to "stay put",check my above post for more info.
Thanks. You daman! I have been looking at that Amsoil Off-Road Grease as well. According to the Amsoil website a 35lb pail is $304.95. Chemtron just quoted me $396 for a 45lb pail, so they are about comparable price-wise ($8.71 per lb vs. $8.8 per lb)
The Ams is good yes but i prefer the 238's thickener over the ams calcium complex. 238 is a great grease and perfect for this type plication,less greasing involved because the grease stays put. you use tubes or you bulk fill your guns???
Thanks. My machine came with an electric (24 volt) Grease pump that sits on a 5 gal pail with a retractable hose reel, so that's what we use, although it can be a PITA to get it primed sometimes when the bucket gets below the half-way mark. We used a hand pump for the green grease, since a friend of mine gave me a couple of tubes to try. To be honest, that Green Dot stuff is so thick, I'm not sure if the electric grease pump can actually pump it!
To be honest that sounds like a PITA to use when your crawling around up and down etc,IMO I'd switch over to tubes with a good quality lever or pistol grip action, but just MO. i use Lincoln guns very high quality easily primed and shove 500+ tubes a year through them no complaints.
I'm not going to knock a grease that you have obviously used & that I have no experience of, but on paper it's only a hair better than a standard multi-purpose grease - 360kg 4-Ball weld test versus 315kg for a normal multi-purpose grease. OK for general use but I wouldn't use it on heavily loaded pin/bush joints TBH.
Can you ask Chemtron what is the 4-Ball Weld Test result and what viscosity is the base oil that they use to manufacture it please. Their spec sheet does not show it. In fact the spec sheet is short on all sorts of other information also, which always gets me twitchy. The Chemtron grease is an NLGI #2.5 (a very unusual spec) which is probably why it appears so thick. Usually the heaviest grease available is NLGI #2.
Thanks man. I will ask the Chemtron rep for a full spec sheet. It is definitely thicker and strands like gum when you try to separate it, but it would be good to know whether it has the lubrication/load qualities that it needs for heavy digging. I will report back with what they say.
Give this a shot, its about 1300 bucks a barrel. I dont know how much a pail would be. http://www.belray.com/sites/default/files/pds_files/Bel-Ray Molylube SP Lubricant PDS.pdf
Check out this comment on Page 8 .............. I was a big fan of synthetics many years back when it was impossible to get a mineral-based grease with 4-ball numbers of 600kg and above and for it still be pumpable in temperatures well below freezing. Bel-Ray Molylube SP-4 was my favourite and it is still an excellent grease today, if a tad expensive. A question though. How many people deciding to try Bel-Ray Molylube SP4 would know right off the bat whether they needed an NLGI #0, #1, or #2 grease they would need for their local climatic conditions. Furthermore if they decided they needed NLGI #0 then which of the 4 options of base oil viscosity (46, 100, 150, or 200) would they need ..?
Will a Moly grease harm turntable bearings in excavators?
As a general rule moly grease is not good for rolling element bearings, so that would rule out turntables. Hitachi have flatly refused to let us use this type of grease in the swing on their machines, I have no idea about other manufacturers. Moly is really just an additive commonly used as a friction reducer, rolling element bearings are by definition low friction anyway. Where moly helps out as an additive is reducing friction in heavily-loaded pin/bush joints.
I would like to switch with moly but am afraid one of the guys could forget or make a mistake and pump moly into the turntable bearing. If it would not harm anything then I would go for the switch. What do you guys think.
look up superlube brand grease and look at test results! ( its the grease with PTFE(teflon) in it) the test was a bolt and nut in some type of vise that put 4000 lbs of pressure on it, then they would count how many turns it would turn before it galded,(they stopped the test at 1000 turns w/ no galding) Im pretty sure the bolt and nut with the 2nd best grease only turned 6 turns.I bought a case of it online 12 tubes for $60. Im in the process of buying some PTFE powder from a company called Shamrock and I will mix it with grease but I cant mix it with oil,they said Id have to get their concentrated mineral oil,cause you could never mix it enough to get it to stay.Yall know that PTFE is what was in SLICK 50(by the way slick50 dont use it anymore ?) Superlube also has PTFE in a penatrating spray,you should try that on a sliding glass door track unbelievable! Im sold on it! If anyone has any more helpful info on PTFE please let everyone know about it.
More tests developed by lubricant suppliers to "prove" that their product is the best. IMHO the ONLY test results you should be looking at in considering a grease are industry-standard ASTM tests. All the rest are just so much horse crap.
A normal lithium base thickener #2 moly grease in slow moving bearings will hurt nothing we do it all the time in slow moving implement bearings here,it's in high speed bearings with a aluminum,or calcium complex thickener that could cause bearing skip because it has extra tackifyers and thicker base grease. not sure on the type of set up a excavator turn table has but i highly,highly doubt it would cause any harm.
As per my post on the previous page Hitachi absolutely refuse to permit any sort of moly additive in grease for their swing bearings. I know because we specifically asked them. I have no idea about other manufacturers.
I understand that but i still stand by my post so the poster has a choice to make,you should ask Hitachi exactly why a 3%lithium grease cant be used, get a better in depth(if they can) explanation from them.
We did ask. They provided a letter from the supplier of their slewing bearings (NTN if I recall correctly) stating that friction-reducing additives such as moly were not permitted in the grease used to lubricate said slewing rings because they had past experience of rollers "skdding" and wearing flat spots. In truth a cross-roll slewing ring is already a low-friction design (as are all roller bearings TBH) and therefore should not require additional friction reducers in the grease. With a new slewing ring for one of our shovels close to 100 grand and probably on a 6 month delivery time we figured it would be better to follow their recommendations, especially while the machines were under warranty. The reason all this came up was that we wanted to use a moly grease in the pins in the front end linkage of our Hitachis for obvious reasons, but the machines have automatic lubrication (including the slewing ring) all fed from a single grease tank and a single grease pump. What we ended up doing was to manufacture our own tanks with 2 compartments each one with its own pump. The central lube system was split and now one tank contains a lithium-base NLGI #2 non-moly grease and supplies only the slewing ring, the other compartment has a high-quality 800kg+ NLGI #1 5% moly grease in it. As a result pin galling on the front end of the machine has reduced almost to zero. We haven't done a pin in months.
Usually you will only get skidding from smaller needle type bearings for obviously reasons,we've yet had any type issues with our bearings,anyway...glad you got yours figured out and using the proper grease in the pins etc,extending maintenance intervals is a time/money saver.
I agree. Most of the skidding issues I've seen before were with uncaged parallel rollers where they tend to "bunch" and therefore end up rubbing on one another. When Cat switched from taper rollers (extremely expensive) to parallel uncaged roller bearings (20% of the price of taper) on the 2nd reduction planetary shafts of their large trucks back around 03-04 all Hell broke loose. However as I said before when a slewing ring costs around $100k there's a limit beyond which I'm not prepared to stick my neck out just to prove a point that it'll run fine on grease with a moly additive.
Nige every time I start to respond to a post you beat me to it and said about the same thing I was thinking.
Great minds think alike, or so my mother told me ...................
This really good info. Thanks Nige. BTW: What type of high quality 800kg+ 5 % moly grease do you use for the pins?
I'm just curious but why are you using a #1 grease in your pins? to thin for summer temps should have a #2 in there.
Lubricating manually I would tend to agree with you, but with an autolube system things are a little different. Also you need a grease with the correct base oil viscosity .............. that's what makes the difference in my experience. One grease we use is a manufactured using a base stock of ISO 220VG viscosity. It's actually rated NLGI #0 but it pumps beautifully and sticks to pins like a sticky thing ........ having an 800kg 4-ball weld number doesn't hurt either. Also for Lincoln autolube systems an NLGI #2 grease can occasionally cause the injectors not to reset properly because the grease doesn't flow back through the vent valve freely enough when the pump shuts off, thus leading to pins getting under-greased. I've had quite a few instances of that, even in tropical ambient temperatures. This is especially true on loaders where grease cycle intervals can be as close as every 5 minutes. If you have a maximum pump running time of 90 seconds per cycle that only leaves you 3-1/2 minutes after the pump stops for all the injectors to reset. However the benefit of an autolube system is that your pins get fresh grease very frequently. Actually what you want to happens is that the grease moves through the joint on a regular basis and takes all the cack like dirt, water, etc, with it as it leaves the joint and falls to the ground, thus keeping the joint clean internally. Greasing manually once or twice a shift I would agree with you and use an NLGI #2 in my sort of climatic conditions. In actual fact our lube truck is equipped with NLGI #2 for manually lubricating things like graders, dozer rippers and smaller excavators. On this particular job site I've been running 3 x Cat 994's & 2 x Hitachi EX3600's for the past 3 years and we have had a sum total of 1 pin failure on all 5 machines in that time. The case for the prosecution rests m'lud ......... JHESL. We're using either Bel-Ray Molylube SP-4-220-0 (synthetic-based, actually an NLGI #0) or Cat Ultra 5 Moly (mineral oil-based). They are both extremely good and I would recommend either one. Other greases I've been around in the past that worked well were Exxon Super Moly & Petro-Plate M5/800. I have also got good reports of Conoco Omnigard XD5 but no personal experience of it.
We use #2 in all our AL systems no problem pumping it,maybe yours is different.
Not so much a pumping issue, especially in hotter climates. More the injectors not always resetting properly. Do the systems you have include a line pressure sensor that monitors the time it takes for the pressure to decay to zero when the pump stops and the vent valve opens ..? Ours trigger an alarm if the line pressure does not fall to zero within a certain time. This indicates that some or all of the injectors may not have reset properly before the next cycle.
I don't believe so,just sensors/alarm for flow,making sure grease is moving..manual cycle and cycle times/duration.
I can tell you the first machine we got with that set-up gave me nightmares. First we figured it was a defective pressure sensor, but then two replacement sensors behaved exactly the same way. We got the lubricant supplier involved and discovered that although the grease moved fine under the positive pressure of the pump in the direction of the injectors it was really reluctant to move backwards in the line when the pump stopped and the vent valve opened. If the grease does not move back freely and the pressure in the line falls to zero some or all of the injectors will not reset in time for the next greasing cycle. It only happens in loaders/excavators because of the short time interval between one cycle ending and the next one starting. Other systems like haul trucks on say a 60-minute cycle interval have no problems if it takes 5 minutes or more for the injectors to completely reset. Indirectly this is where I discovered that although a grease may be rated NLGI #0 or #1 it can still stay in a joint really well in high ambient temperatures over 40 DegC so long as it is manufactured from a high viscosity base stock. As I said before one of the best greases on the market, Bel-Ray Molylube SP-4, has 4 viscosity options and every one is rated NLGI #0. What brand of NLGI #2 grease are you using in your AL systems ..?
Just your run of the mill John deere HD lithium #2, as that feeds moslty the high speed drum/cutter head/kernel processor bearings on our JD forage chopper, everything else on the header/steering etc,etc gets the Schaeffer's #2 238. Our large square bailer has basically the same AL system with same #2 grease used.
Until recently I sold and installed Lincoln systems. The grade of grease really depends on the temperature and of course what type injector your using. The newer "V" injectors vent at a much lower psi. I can post some injector info if anyone needs it or if you tell me what type of grease I can see if I still have the info for different types of grease.
I'll second that. SL-V injectors are now much more common than the former SL-1 model which is the one we had problems with resetting when using heavier grades of grease. Somewhere I have a Lincoln video showing how much faster and easier the SL-V injectors vent compared to an SL-1. As I said before, if your time between cycles is longer than 5 minutes there is no problem, it's the short intervals that kill you on injector resets if you don't use the appropriate grease for the system.
what do u think of superlube grease or any grease with PTFE (teflon slickist thing known to man)
You don't give up do you ..........?? Look back to my comments on the previous page.
Superlube is a decent grease for low pressure applications but its way to expensive. You can find better grease for the money. Btw Nige I work for Belray now, let me know if you need anything concerning Belray!
just wanted to report back on the Chemtron Green Dot Grease. I decided to bite the bullet and bought 2 45lb buckets. Got part-way through the first one before we realized it was complete crap. It was congealing and washing out of the bushings and by midafternoon, the pins started squealing. It looks like the grease turns to a whitish-grey crud in the salt water that we're digging in, and just sloughs out of the bushings. Now I'm pissed because this is supposed to be the "best" grease on the market, according to their sales rep in Davie, Fla. I would have though that if they are based in Florida, their grease should stand up in a salt water environment. Worst of all, after shipping and import taxes, I ended up paying - get this - over a thousand dollars for 90 lbs of this ****. I'm thinking I just bought two buckets of the worlds most expensive play goo. Maybe I'll save it for Halloween and give it to the kids to make green slime with...
I take it this grease is lithium base? earlier in this thread i had mentioned a better base thickener is needed for water washout performance vs a lith grease, i'll say it again look for a aluminum complex or calcium complex thickener. you should have only boughten 1 bucket till you now how well it works.
Yep, I'm kicking myself now. Thing is that we had used a couple of tubes already (before I bought the two buckets) and it looked like it was standing up good to pound out, but after digging all day in salt water, it was a different story. Expensive lesson learned, I guess... What I need is an extreme duty high load grease that stays put when digging submerged in salt water. Anyone have direct experience with those kind of conditions? FYI: We're using a Derre 800C (80 ton machine) with an Add-a-Boot (which weighs like 5800lbs) and a 5.3 CY heavy duty bucket (which weighs 7780lbs) digging very dense blasted crystaline coral rock in 30+ feet of salt water - just to give you a picture of the lind of conditions we're digging in.
Our long stick excavator used for dipping manure pits(sand extraction)holds up good with a the grease i mentioned above. And acidity manure as you can imagine is a very tough environment for pins and bushings. look at Schaeffer's #238 grease or Amsoils off road grease should do what you need very well.
JHESL, I can send you some sample cartridges if you want to try the Belray SP-6 I mentioned. If you want to get a pail then I would have to charge you for it, but I could give you your money back if it wont hold up. Its an aluminum complex that has been tested in salt water.
Cool. Thanks very much Blitz. Please PM me your email address and I will be in touch (once I get over the new year hangover!).
I see someone on here posted that they worked for lincoln in the past. I have a volvo l180 wheel loader i just purchased and it came with a lincoln auto lube system. is there a certain way to tell how often the system is greasing? and how do you know if every joint is getting grease as it should be? Also it currently has a tacky red grease in the bucket, but what i use is some of the kendall super blue on the rest of my machines. Would this work properly in the lincoln system? thanks in advance!!
zlssefi, If your using the modern quick lube system the main block should have pins that go in and out as the system is pumping. If something is clogged the pin will be stuck, it should stick out like a sore thumb. There is a timer, you will have to find it and see what it is set for. If it was a factory installed system you should be getting the right amounts as long as the timer is set correctly. For the Kendall super, how cold is it in the winter? What grade is it? If your hand pumping #2 grease in the rest of your machines, you may need to get a #1 or #0 grease for this machine. The Kendall grease is a lithium and I would GUESS the red tacky grease in the bucket is a lithium so they should be fine to mix. To be on the safe side I would clean out the bucket as well as you can then put your Super Blue in. Why super blue? its listed as an EP but it doesn't even pass the standard EP tests?
grease To my knowledge the system was installed at the factory.For the pins should you be able to move them by hand? or just when the system is injeecting the grease? Would the timer be under the grease bucket or would it be in a fuse block area? As far as the grease it self..around here the coldest it gets is zero for very limited amounts of time...generally in the 20s until late feb then starts warming up through the 30s. the blue is a number two grease but seems to "Run" pretty easily. Thanks for the reply!!
You should not be moving the pins by hand. Each block will have pins where the tubing comes out. When the pump is cycling the pins will be moving in and out to show that they are working. It may not have a timer from the factory and which would have it cycling every hour. Whenever I installed them, I would put the timer somewhere in the cab. The system should have a button to start all cycles of grease, I would guess the timer would be very near it. Heres a video from Lincoln, it may help you recognize the pins http://www.lincolnautolube.com/construction.htm
Do you have the Operation & Maintenance Manual for your loader and does it say anything about the greasing system ..? Maybe even a wiring schematic might give you a clue if it shows where the lube pump gets its power from. On some smaller Cat machines that use Lincoln Quicklub system the timer interval is adjustable and is controlled by the machine electronics, you have to enter a certain mode in the electronic dashboard to re-program the time.
Just wanted to report back that the Belray grease blitz138 hooked me up with is the best we've tried so far. I don't have the specs handy, but will post them later. This stuff stands up to the extreme environment we're operating in and has way less splatter and washout than anything else we've tried over the years. Thanks blitz! I'm gonna order me a few more buckets of it today.
Bears out my previous experience that Bel-Ray greases are very good, if a little on the pricey side. However a grease that stands up to the job at any price is cheaper than downtime and parts resulting from using a grease that won't stand up ....... if that makes sense.
Yep. Exactly. Same thing I say about engine oil. I can't get why some guys try to save a few bucks on motor oil and end up spending thousands on rebuilds. Same goes for all lubrication, I guess... BTW: the Belray grease is way cheaper (less than 1/2 the price!) than the Green Dot stuff that I ordered previosuly, so I'm doubly happy. BIG thanks to blitz for hooking me up.
The grease I'm using is the Belray Termalene EP2 Ex Tacky grease. It retails for about $135 for a 35 lb pail. Worth every cent, in my opinion.
Im glad the Termalene worked well! But you aren't paying retail......I got you a deal. Now I need to talk to Nige and convince him to come to work for Belray lol. Let me know if you have any other issues I can help with.
I don't dig in water, but I have found a grease that resists water washout. We tried a lot of greases to find one that resisted washout by water based coolants in the machine shop and settled on Kendall SHP grease. The spec sheet says it's calcium sulfonate based and is good in corrosive conditiions - http://www.royalpetroleum.com/Uploads/safetysheets/item-1_field5-PIS - Kendall SHP.pdf - I'm also using in my Cat track loader pins and it seems to hold up quite well.
Gulf Western oils
Calcium Sulp greases have alot of benefits. They are pretty good for water washout and the thickener itself has a good degree of EP properties. Looking at the Kendall PDS sheet I wonder what the 4ball weld load rating is as this is the test used to qualify whether it is an EP grease or not. Other than that it looks like a pretty decent grease I've never used it though. Wonder if Conoco calls it by another name as they are the blender.....
Judging by the 4-ball weld test scar size (0.39mm) I'd say that the 4-ball weld load ought to be pretty high, possibly in excess of 500kg. I agree that if they are calling in an EP grease the 4-ball test result should be there in order to prove it. If it's similar to most greases (not Bel-Ray I hasten to add), they all come out of the same plant anyway. The name of the company escapes me at the moment but they are out West somewhere. Only the fine details of the blend vary, and quite frankly you can have them blend anything you want if you buy enough of it.
Thanks Phil. I am very pleased with the Bel-Ray Termalene and the service we get from the folks at Bel-Ray. This grease holds up much better than anything else we've tried. With the punishing conditions that we work in down here - we're digging some heavy-ass blasted shot rock in 30' of salt water with a heavy stick extension on a Deere 800C - we need as extreme a grease as we can get. Just received another 8 buckets of it, which should keep the old 800 happy for a while. Even though I have to pay for shipping from New Jersey to Miami in order to get it shipped on to me, it's a good deal, IMV.
the water wash out looks to be too high on this product....everything else looks good. water wash out for the northwest should be max 3%
Have the lincolns not been sent to China for the manufacturing? The batteries have a horrendous recall since, according to warrenty reports.
Ya the grease that JHESL is refering to is this one http://www.belray.com/sites/default/files/pds_files/Termalene Heavy Duty Construction Grease_0.pdf
I think you were responding to the electric grease gun in a different thread
Thixogrease is a good brand of grease. It is ideal for applications with high temperature or extreme pressure. It has also superior protection against corrosion and rust, and at the same time, it is also water wash resistant. __________________________________ plumbing
Awsome grease! Hey guys, Lubemaster, a division of Certified Labs has a grease with an aluminum complex base with moly and graphite. It`s called Premalube. It`s a multi-purpose, heavy load, extreme pressure, high temperature grease specifically formulated for heavy industrial equipment. It will stay in place under heavy loads, performs better than the Amsoil youtube video. Has a high dropping point of 500°F and does wash out. It`s marine grade. It will outperform any other grease on the market. I`ve tried it multiple demonstrations against other greases and none perform on the same level. Check it out!
Thanks Premalube for such a useful information.:notworthy I will check out it definitely.
loving caterpillar ultra 5. contain 5% moly, if you dont use this on the cat graders it voids your warranty, has a very high shock and load capability.
Permalube did not tell everyone that if you use a Aluminum complex based grease you must flush your components first since Aluminum based grease is not compatible with other lithium based greases.
I've tried the CAT Ultra 5 Moly grease, which is available locally from our Cat dealer, and it is good grease, but it is not as good as the Belray High Viscosity Moly that I'm using now, for what we're using it for anyway.
We use the Cat Ultra 5 moly and I'd agree with that comment, it's an extremely good grease for heavily-loaded applications. What's the price difference between the Cat grease and the Bel-Ray..? I've always had very good experience with Bel-Ray greases but they were always extremely expensive compared to other products on the market. By the way the comment about voiding warranty if you don't use a specific grease on M Series is incorrect as far as I know. The O&M Manuals for all the M Series graders all recommend Ultra Moly 5 for "Heavy Load Factor" applications (Ditching, fill spreading, spreading base material, ripping, heavy road maintenance, heavy snow plowing.) For "Medium" applications (Average road maintenance, road mix work, scarifying, snow plowing) the O&M calls for Cat Advanced Moly 3, and for "Light" applications (Finish grading, light maintenance, road travel.) it calls for Cat Multipurpose grease. Of course all the previous information could also include the wording "or a similar specification grease from another lubricant manufacturer" IMHO.
Hey Nige. It would be hard for me to answer on the price, as I'm getting a reduced price from Belray for buying in fairly large quantities (like 12 5-gallon buckets at a time), and I have to pay freight and import duties on it. I get it from them for around US$135 per 5 gallon pail. For me, the CAT grease is much more expensive, as I would buy that locally, and the local dealer has to make his profit and then some, so he sells te CAT Ultra 5 Moly for CI$255 per pail, which is US$318!!! CAT parts and service here are beyond ridiculous, which is why I only own Hitachi/Deere machines. I guess that's what happens when you buy a large franchise for a small market. I only bought the CAT grease once (when I ran out and was desperate) and it worked good, but I still don't think it is as good at staying in the joint as the Belray High Viscosity Moly, and cost me twice as much. Plus, the Belray folks (like Blitz138) give me real good customer service, and I believe in that, so I'm sticking with Belray.
Glad the grease is working for you Sammy. Nige I can get you pricing, ill send you an email. You will not void warranty by using a different grease then the Cat grease as long as it meets the specs that CAT has put out. Its called the Magnuson–Moss Warranty Act, its federal law. The law basically states that you can not dictate OEM manufactured parts unless you give them for free. This could apply to grease, oil, or any other consumable.
This is not always true. You can not go off the charts stating what thickeners are compatible with what. Different charts have totally different conclusions. I would do compatibility testing just to be on the safe side though.
This is what I use for now. OLD STOCK What I have for now is some grease I bought at a silent auction to benefit Relay for Life. I've had this stuff for 8-10yrs. and it was long before I had my excavator and really had no real need for it but was the best thing I could throw money at given available selection,(I'm not much for nic,nacs) forget what I paid for it(think it was $10. for 10 tubes) Tried to post pic but failed. will you give opinion on how this compares to the better greases mentioned in this thread. I really want to try shaefer, spelling? 238. But I MAY use 2-3 tubes a year, small machine and certainly don't run everyday. and I have 5 or 6 grease guns laying around. I would like to get rid of this stock or I may Ebay it LOL. This is BP grease, Energrease LC-EP 2 its extreme pressure, Very high Temperature.. NLGI & GC-LB So its lithium complex NLGI No.2 Temp. range -10-300 F. for ball, roller and sleeve bearings including with disc brakes, farm, construction, industrial, mining equipment, motors, pumps and there's more. BUT. no moly.!.? is this right.? Would you guys use this up? I'm very interested in this subject and didn't realize there was so many variables and do's and don'ts. But I have sure learned a bunch in these 13 pages. Thank you to all.
Do you mean BP Energrease LS instead of LC..? Is it a buttery yellow colour..? If so I've just looked at the Data Sheet on BP's web site and quite honestly I'd think twice about using it on my pickup truck, let alone on construction equipment. http://www.bp.com/liveassets/bp_int...a/STAGING/local_assets/downloads/b/BP7137.pdf
Pretty sure its LC ? on the label it states its lithium complex hinse the prefix LC. but it is a tan or darker yellow color. There is no telling how old it is and may have been discontinued before I got a hold of it, 10-15 yrs. or maybe older. I forgot I had it and just started 1st tube and thunked I should ask about it. This is why I wanted another opinion. I can always run it on the mower or less critical equipment. This would give me reason to go ahead and buy some better known quality grease.
It's pretty old, Lectro. Have the tubes leaked at all? Most will after a couple of years, especially if left outside in a hot climate. If they have leaked, that means the grease is breaking down. I'm not familiar with BP lube products at all, never used any in 45 years in the heavy equipment industry. But, I don't believe I'd use the stuff as it's so old. You would be better off finding a good grease containing Moly. It's not that expensive. Some I've used are Shell, Texaco (favorite!), Mobil, and Chevron. Good Luck!
There is no seepage; tubes look good and grease is as it should be, but the quality may be lacking due to the compound components or lack thereof. This grease has been stored in-doors, so it all looks good.
This is a run of the mill EP Lithium complex grease with nothing really special about it. Shelf life is 5 years max, it doesn't matter if you can see if there is something wrong with it. Throw it in the garbage. If you only use 3 or 4 tubes a year go spend a little cash to get some new grease. Edit: I just looked at the PDS sheet, they list the 4 ball at 2600 N . This seemed screwy to me as its usually listed in kilograms, once in awhile in lbs, but never in newtons. 2600 newtons = 265 kgs? If my math is right. It seems to me it was a subpar grease to start out with, now that its 10 years old it will have degraded badly.
WELL, I must first thank everybody for all the knowledge I gained from the 14 pages on this matter. Which prompted me to ask the question to begin with. I located local Scheaffer rep, bought 2 tubes of 238 #2. WHAT A DIFFERENCE, A case 30 on the way.(lifetime supply LOL) on another note I used to run their oil in my stroker Harley but had forgot about it, I knew this name Schaeffer seemed familiar.
We use hydrotex grease on our forestry equipment. Tried shaeffer and didn't have much luck. Especially on pins with brass bushings
I have excellent results with amsoil syn. Grease. Been useing it for almost 40 yrs and i,ve ran the same u-joints in semi trucks for 500,000 miles and they still showed no wear but i,am not afraid of a grease gun neather. Bob
I believe this is your best bet.... http://www.yoursupplyshop.com/premalubextreme.pdf
I'm going to try something called Paragon 3000. Specs out really well, price is about what I'm used to paying. I have been using Mobil 1 Moly. Doesn't seem very good to me. In heavy digging it liquifies and runs out of the pin. Never seen a grease go so watery.
First impressions of the Paragon 3000. It's thick. Takes more effort to pump than the moly I was using. Time will tell.
I have been running DOC fir about a year and a half now its leaps and bounds better than the MFA grease we were running before. Its a 5% grease, I have tried the CAT Desert gold before its good but $$$
Whats DOC fir grease?
That was supposed to be DOC for a year. Fir was a fat finger typo. DOC is Dennis Oil Company located in Springfield Missouri
Does anyone know what specs to look for when purchasing a lithium complex grease nlgi2? What makes it a high temp? I found a deal on for the pail size on amazon called High Temp EP Lithium Complex. http://www.amazon.com/High-Temp-Lith...complex+grease
What are you using it for? Most of the time I look for the working temperature range, pour point, and the four ball ep tests. We use the same grease at our ready-mix plant for general application.
Need it for all purpose applications. The lithium complex grease is usually way out of my price range. its called sinopec high temp lithium complex, sold online by stryker lubricant distributors
I have bought a pallet this grease in a 400lb drum size recently online and it works great. The red multipurpose drum sells for $550, probably the lowest priced grease in America, shipped to me fedex from new jersey
Requested some grease samples for sinopec grease from stryker distributors, got this in the mail today.
Be cautious when looking at the Stryker pds info, all the testing is in "n" for newtons. 10 n = about 1 kg. [/SIZE]
So to compare apples to apples, how would I do a conversion to compare the ASTM D 2266 4 ball test? For example, if I wanted to compare Mobil and Sinopec. MOBIL XHP 222 4-Ball Wear Test, ASTM D 2266, scar, mm (0.5) http://www.mobil.com/USA-English/Lubes/PDS/GLXXENGRSMOMobilgrease_XHP_220.aspx SINOPEC EXTREME TEMPERATURE EP LITHIUM COMPLEX GREASE (HP-XT) Four ball wear, 60 min @ 392 N, mm, ASTM D 2266 (0.44) http://www.strykerdistributors.com/hp-xt-grease/page1
I have been using D-A Lubricants for 40 years and NEVER had any problems, I use D-A Moly 5 for all grease applications, it does not liquify, pound out or run great stuff. http://www.dalube.com/
Ok for the ASTM D2266 this is a wear test, not an extreme pressure test. For this it doesn't matter newtons or kilograms, 392 N = 40 kg. They both use the ASTM D 2266 test. Now for an extreme pressure test you use the 4-Ball Weld Load, ASTM D 2596 or the timken test (more for oils). In order for a grease to use the EP in their name it has to reach a 250kg on the 4 ball test. The stryker pds sheet doesnt not list the weld load, if they dont list it you know its nothing to brag about. They do list the timken but in newtons @ 178, that is 18 kg which is ok but we like to see it over 20. This is a soso grease to use in lightly loaded bearings not heavy equipment.
BigChris, what are you greasing?
Thanks for the clarification, greasing cement mixers.
Saying they are both not for heavy bearings, which of the two would you say has the edge?
If those were my only choices Id pick Mobil. They are pretty similar greases from what I can see. Mobil has pretty good quality control, Sinopec is from China.... Ill admit to be being biased, Im not familiar with Sinopec but Im familiar with Chinese knockoffs that dont deliver what they promise. How is the Sinopec priced? *edit* Why did you chose the high temp grease? The mixers shouldnt be getting hot. Are you using these greases on kilns?
Writing on my Chinese IPad…I have not problem with Chinese products, but I’ve always just used the Mobil 222 because it’s supposed to be good for just about everything and I don’t want to buy a lot of different greases. Should I be considering just a regular multi purpose?
There have been a lot of good greases mentioned here. The best I can say is look to buy your grease from a company that specializes in lubrication. Not from a diesel supplier that has lubrication. Of course the names mentioned here could be ranked for quality but it all depends on the price of the product as well.
I agree somethings out of china work, but it certainly raises some flags. I wouldnt trust it on machines that mean your livelihood. Id say a multipurpose EP grease.
Global lubricant companies have the ability to produce some of the best greases. Companies that are fully integrated with an upstream, midstream, and downstream operations. China is certainly a player, http://www.avionics-intelligence.com/articles/2014/02/biofuel-china.html Shell's largest grease plant is being built in China, quality will not be issue.
frntlineteschsup what's your association with Stryker Distributors?:cool2
My relationships are with IOT in Jordan and for Stryker in the US. My last project was power generation projects IPP3 and IPP4. Marine http://www.shell.com/global/product...sses/marine-products/distributor_locator.html Industrial http://www.shell.com/global/product...us/contact-distributors.html#textwithimage_39
Please take a moment to read the Forum rules, specifically this section - Since you are associated with Stryker Distributors, this is you "freebie".
My eyes crossed while reading this thread, so I just skipped to the end. I ended up with a case of Cat #2 EP with molly dropped off instead of what I regularly use in my grease guns. In my uneducated greasmanship, I compared the ratings etc., and they seemed the same as best I could tell. The only thing that seems weird is that this case of Cat brand grease is white in color. In the opinion of you educated greaseheads (a compliment, not an insult), since I ended up being told to just keep the case of grease, will it work fine in greasing the numerous grease points on my excavators, tractors and track loaders? I'm not into arguing what is better etc. I've been using the red Lucas Tuff Tac stuff for decades (because that's what I got with my first machine) and I've never had any issues. Heck, on my mowers my spindles show no measurable wear after 2000 hours which pleases the heck out of me. I really am asking if I can expect the same good qualities out of the white colored Caterpillar brand (yes, I'm aware that Cat doesn't make grease) grease tubes as I have the Lucas I've used forever?
What Part Number of Cat grease do you actually have ....?? From that number I can tell you what spec it is.
I use Mobil delvac extreme grease or wally world high moly or tsc traveller's 3% moly grease. I've never had any issues.
Blitz, can you please contact me, email in profile. Thanks, Tim
Lately been using the travellers multi purpose hd lithium grease from tractor supply. Well the store made a mistake and I ended up getting 10 tubes for $1.89 before I could notify them of the mistake. So i figure for that price o can just throw the grease to her .