My house is built into the side of a hill and the top of that hill, the ridge, is behind my house. I would like to remove the trees and flatten that ridge to make a backyard. The total area is about 1/2 acre (I have 3.4 total) and at the center of the ridge I would be removing about 6 ft. of dirt and pushing it away from the house. Most of the trees are small but there are a few that are probably 18 inches in diameter. Of course, the roots must be removed because I'm moving the dirt below them. No utilities run back there. The question is what do I use to do this? What machine would help me with both the trees and the moving of the dirt? I would like to rent but I could buy an old machine. Options: Dozer - Would a dozer pull over trees if I put a heavy duty tow strap 20 ft. up in the tree or will the tree just break in half? If I cut the trees down, will a dozer dig out the root ball? I hear buying a used dozer can be a big mistake. Backhoe - Probably wouldn't move the dirt as well but I could use it to dig up the root balls. Could I push on trees with the backhoe? Any advice is appreciated!
For a half acre, I'd hire it done. Buying you're own machine is very rewarding but you will also be buying a cat in a sack. You could end up with more work/money than you planned. It takes a pretty big dozer to tip over an 18" tree. Do you have any other projects after this one?
This isn't really a diy project for a first timer. You can get over your head real fast. Where are you going to put the dirt also, you probably won't want to just push it down in a ravine and block water runoff.
It's hard to explain but where I will be pushing the dirt is to the far side of the hill. Right now it's a gradual slope, I will simply be making the slope more steep with the extra dirt. This will not change any water ways and runoff shouldn't be adversely effected. It is well within my abilities. I don't mind hI ring someone but it has to make financial sense. I do have other projects. My driveway needs work and a pond might be in the future.
If you are talking about financial sense, hire it done. If this is about saving money, you can't buy, and do it yourself. If you want to justify it to your wife, I can't help you. Yes it's fun. Mentally therapeutic is an argument. By the way, I "save money" owning ten tractors, 4 trucks, and buildings full of tools. I never said I was better. I'm a sick man! If I were choosing the machine of choice is a BIG backhoe. It is the most versatile machine in the world. I seldom cut a tree. I push it down with the back bucket. I'm pushing from a height of 12-14 feet. That makes a big lever to uproot the stump too. Once on the ground, the chain saw gets used. Moving dirt is where the backhoe comes in.
Yeah , for that type of job looking at the pictures a rubber tire backhoe or smaller dozer would work fine . Check out rental rates in your area to help make the decision . http://whayne.com/rentals/products/backhoe-loaders/cat-backhoe-420f/ http://whayne.com/rentals/products/dozers/cat-d4k-dozer/ As mentioned also find out what some local knucklehead with a tree killing dirt moving machine would do the job for ? LOL
I'm not sure what kind of soil you have there but a 4K dozer will have trouble pushing out trees of any size. I'm not saying that you aren't capable of doing it with a used machine but there is a huge risk buying a used piece, doing a little work and selling it again. I've done it and learned my lesson. I'm still doing it . I'd have to put eyes on the place but it looks like an afternoon job if I was going to do it. I'm too far away but.... You sit on the deck and have a cold one. I beat up my machines. You play a little on my machine if you care to. You give me $500 +/- and I go home. I'm definitely a do-it-yourself guy but I've learned to just hire certain things done. If you plan on putting this new purchase to work then go for it but an afternoon of playing could cost you a lot. Have fun however you go about it and please post pics. We love pics.
I just bought a dozer. I have the rest of my life full of projects, including one like yours. I shopped hard, did my homework, and years later bought it. I paid $11500. Had it trucked as crossing state lines with my truck is complicated. I've put batteries, cables, wiring harness, several hydraulic hoses, including one that cost over 400 dollars. We changed all fluids, and filters, and ordered a seat. I want a winch, haven't found one to fit, am considering a Warn 18000 LB hydraulic one. I can't bring myself to figure out the total cost. Many years ago I bought the first backhoe. I'm on my third. I needed a truck, that story is a long one. The trailer was old, needed a lot of work. My ramble is to stress that buying equipment to save money won't work. Having functional equipment is great. Functional equipment becomes dysfunctional often, it costs a lot, and requires a lot of work. Yes I love it.
I'm seeing a trend! ---> Buying a machine will not save money and can be a pain in the butt but it's a good time! I like that. Truth seems, I'm going to loose money. Renting - I may spend, say, $2000 in renting equipment over the course of getting this 3.4 acres in shape. Lots of trees, lots of brush, driveway, pond, etc. Hiring - $2000 won't cover hiring out ALL the work I want to do and I won't have to call someone when I just want a little job done along the way. Buying - $2000 would cover a lot of repairs (on a backhoe) and I would have a machine at my disposal. I'm leaning toward a decent size backhoe due to the versatility and cost (to buy and to repair). It might not be the fastest for grating but it will get done. Any advise on what to avoid? 2wd are much cheaper, but I imagine 4wd will push much better? Something like this: http://www.ebay.com/itm/John-Deere-...762635?hash=item25b654380b:g:gXEAAOSw5dNWnTc2
I just bought a JD 450B crawler loader with backhoe and 4 in 1 bucket. It would make easy work of that job...the biggest problem will be piling and burning all that brush and stumps. I would simply drop the trees, buck the timber in 10' long sections and stack with the 4 in 1, pile the tops and side limbs, dig the stumps with the hoe, or pop them out with the bucket, depending on size, shake and dedirt with the 4 in 1, and stack the stumps on top of the brush for eventual burning. Burning green stumps is a terrible job. Once you start removing the top of the ridge, do you plan on building retaining walls and terracing? I have also found the pressure washing stumps before stacking saves an enormous amount of effort on burning. It removes the dirt so they are lighter and easier to stack, once the dirt in removed they dry much better, and once the stump is free of dirt and rocks removed, you can trim the roots with a chain saw without damaging the chain to from a much more compact fire and get better reflection between stumps. My machine was purchased last Thursday at is at my local dealer for tracks and steering clutches. The machine was cheap, getting it in proper shape a bit more expensive. Howard
No terracing. The dirt will be pushed away from the house toward the woods. It will be pretty steep back there but that's no big deal. I'm not going to maintain it and it's not visible. Perhaps, I will seed it when I seed the flat part to discourage erosion but it will become overgrown in no time.
If you shave the top soil off first and stockpile it, then you can some on the new back yard, and some on the waste. You might also want to sort out your stone for cobble or riprap to stabilize the bank, plus I like clover as a ground cover. It enriches the soil by putting nitrogen back into it and provided fodder for the deer. Howard
Good thoughts, thanks!
The way I look at this is if you are only keeping the machine for a year or two look at buying one in nice shape a little newer with 4 wheel drive. If you can take your time and find one for a good price that is in demand you just might be able to sell it for what you paid or close to it. If you get the better machine you will be less likely to be spending a bunch of time and money fixing it unless you like that kind of thing.
You know everyone needs a piece of equipment be it a backhoe, skidsteer that would be my preference anyway or utility tractor you could accomplish quite a bit of work on that clearing timber ect then if you needed to hire in a large machine for the day it won't be to bad That is a lot of earth moving to cut all that down to the level of the existing yard maybe your retaining wall is to close to the house already to backfill that way and make a more gentle slope hopefully no bedrock under that ridge
Probably a good idea to buy a decent machine. The trick is to convince the wife of this reasoning! What is considered an average amount of hours?
I hadn't considered bedrock! That would stink.
One if the s3e567x678i345e456s567t terms I've ever heard in the construction industy is "angle of repose." It has nothing to do with s456ex, and Google will give you a much better explanation than ever I could, but when dealing with new material on slopes, it imay be a huge factot. Cheers, Neill
Angle of repose is the natural angle the soil pile will make, and is usually a do not exceed value! However, if you are any where NEAR that value, it will wash like the dickens. Think of the piles of gravel at quarries at the end of conveyors. Howard
If it is to be used only as a backhoe you might get by with a 2 wheel drive. For loader work the 2 wheel drive will be at a serious disadvantage. As you lift to fill the bucket, it takes weight from the drive wheels, causing them to spin. Now you have a hole to climb out of along with pushing the bucket into the pile for the next scoop. Since we're on the subject, a torque converter is in my opinion also important. With it, your wheels don't have to spin. I will never own a loader without. Extend a hoe is real nice. You can engage teeth in a tree trunk 14 feet off the ground, and extend. The lifting action makes the tree trunk a lever lifting roots out of the ground. Besides that all large holes, or deep ditches need space. What you pick up you must put down. If you can't reach far enough, it'll fall back in the hole. Refilling a hole is much nicer if you can reach behind the spoils pile. Thumb is nearly indispensable. If we didn't have thumbs they'd call us dogs. A backhoe with thumb can do so much more. 4 in one bucket is at its best on a crawler. It is a grading blessing on one. On a wheel loader it's still very useful. Weight is the most important feature, I can't imagine too much weight. I like a cab, as much of the time it's outside.
It also applies to grain . Corn , soybeans , wheat all have angle of repose . Differs a bit depending on moisture content but when exceeded she spills rite over the sides of the truck in the dark and you get to shovel it up the morning . LOL
Don't forget the angle of repose also applies to anything stored in any of my buildings as it slopes up from the paths. All efforts to sort or pile will be defeated by gravity, and the angle of repose.
Thanks for the tip guys. Sounds like a good way to get hurt. I will ask my father, an engineer, to look into this but a quick google search seems to indicate being no steeper than 45 degrees.
Definitely getting a thumb! Thanks for the advice!
I really enjoy you that ask all these questions and already have all the answers . Just remember a tree will kill you , quick .