I know this a pretty vague question, but I have an F250 with a gooseneck rated at 24k lbs. In Texas the law is fairly lenient on ranchers pulling heavy equipment to a certain extent. So what is the biggest/heaviest dozer recommended for us non-commercial drivers who can haul them around? I have 450C that weighs under 15k.I think I'd like to get a bigger one.
I would say any machine over 20,000 is asking for trouble from a stopping and towing equipment standpoint. We have a D5G that's around 20k and it's a good little machine. If you choose to tow that heavy with a 3/4 ton I would sure want the best tires and brakes I could get on the rig. Also, you want to make sure you have the load distributed correctly. Even being a gooseneck you could encounter a situation where the tail wags the dog. Scary when it happens. If you want to go heavier than that I would consider a heavier truck. Bigger brakes, duals on the rear, heavier springs etc. If you pull it a couple times a year you can probably get by with what you have. Anymore than that you'll wear that 3/4 ton out in short order. Hope that's helpful. Junkyard
And no offense but we would like you to not haul even that while we're on the road thanks. 15K dozer on at least a 5K tare weight trailer, behind a 3/4 ton that weighs what? 8K? If it's flat country and visibility is good, and you take it nice and easy, maybe for the occasional haul, but one mistake or you lose the brake connection, not good.
With an F250 I would stay at the 450c /15k or under size or get a heavier haul rig to upsize dozers. Why risk an accident or hurting yourself or an innocent other?
I dont see the problem, Im legal at 25800, why wouldn't you want me on the road.
Your license may be good for 25,800 but the truck and trailer probably aren't unless you can show the math. Plus, it is still not a good idea.
Have you scaled your rig at that I think you might be heavier.. Also you already square into class A cdl trailer weight unless TX has some exceptions might as well buy a 2 ton with air brakes to pull the trailer then you could up size dozer
That's too much weight to safely haul behind a 3/4 ton pickup. 15K dozer plus trailer weight is not safe in any form or fashion behind a 3/4 ton. I could care less what's legal via the tag the DMV sells or what the truck manufacturers show in their ads, experience says otherwise.
As I understand the Texas regs, although I'm no expert and anyone that knows more about this than I feel free to correct me: Is your trailer a 40'er? Reason I ask is in Texas those have to have a DOT number, in Houston a 40'er will get pulled over on sight. I was able to get the 40'er I've got cheap is that the DOT impounded the truck and trailer on the side of the road until someone with a Class A could take over. After this the previous owner just wanted it gone. And empty your F250 with a 24k trailer is over weight. You need a Class A because the trailer is over 20,000lbs and your combined weight is surely over 26,0001lbs. But with farm plates you don't need a CDL, you will need the corresponding CLASS of license to go with the rig though. With a class B, you can have a truck above 26,001lbs with a 20,000lb trailer behind it, if you want a trailer more than 20,000lbs, you need a class A. To stay on a class C, you need to keep the overall combination below 26,0001 lbs. This is for farm use/not for hire and within 150 air miles of the farm, get outside those requirements and you'll be subject to the normal classifications. https://www.txdps.state.tx.us/internetforms/Forms/CVE-13.pdf A 24k trailer will weigh about 6-8k, so it's legal rated capacity about 18-16klbs, so a 15k dozer is already at or close the legal weight cap. Now that's the law, I'm sure everyone's broken it, I have have several time. The worst time was 35,000lbs of machine tools on a 40', 24,000lb gooseneck with a rented 2015 Dodge 3500 . And also the lights/brakes failed about a block after getting loaded (long story....), so had no trailer brakes for the 20 mile trip. But this was early on a Saturday morning, with an escort car blocking for the truck and traveling no more than 10mph. That new souped up 3500 could pull the load right on up to highway speed if you so desired, but would have no hope of stopping it. Second worst overload was a 17,000 lb, 30' long lathe on a 24+3 10,000 lb gooseneck with a '95 dodge 2500 pulling. Fourth worst was the P&H's 14,000lb counterweight on that trailer, fifth is the W-11, Case says it weights 11,505lbs. That's all on a trailer with a GVW of 10,000lbs, not a rated capacity of 10,000lbs. But again, going slow, moving on holidays/weekends, being able to stop and making sure tires don't get hot is the most important thing to safely overloading something. I say this not as a source of pride, but to illustrate what's physically possible is not necessary what's legal or 100% safe. I'm tired of abusing goosenecks and pickups and will be getting a class A and semi as soon as possible. IMHO, you don't have enough truck for the trailer, and your too heavy for a class C. I couldn't want to drive that rig though Houston in the middle of the week, that's just asking for trouble. Its not what the truck can pull that's the important part, its what you can stop and control in an emergency what's important.
Agree , We pull a tandem gooseneck with a single wheel K 30 chevy . Pretty much a " heavy 3/4 ton " pickup . With skid loader and attachments on board whole rig weighs in around 19,000 pounds . And that's about all the truck wants pulling or stoppin in the hills . In my area farmers move everything on a "farm tag " & medical card . And I mean everything . Wrecker gets a 16,000 pound " plus" recovery tag . I like the plus as it's always over it .
My .02 , a 450 is as big as you want to haul. A friend hauled a 850D Case with a F350 and a 10 ton dual tandem gooseneck. He never did it again. Oh but it was a power stroke.
I pull a 8k lb mini and a skid with a attachments (10k overall) on a bumper pull trailer (thats 3,500 lbs empty) behind a F-250 regularly.... I'd never want to pull more weight then that! Hope your truck is a manual at the very least, if not your brakes will be trash in a short time! Get a bigger truck and get a CDL, its not that big of a deal to get one..
You will be fine pulling a 18-20k dozer as long as you have a good tandem dual trailer. A dually pick up would be better but a single wheel will work too. I have both a 3/4 and a 1 ton and just pull with whatever suits my need that day. I live in Tx too and I would guess the heaviest thing I see hualed around is a trailer load of 5x6 round hay. You just have to be careful and watch out for folks. I wouldn't pull it through downtown town Dallas but wouldn't be scared out in the country. I have noticed as someone else said load placement is more critical with a single wheel pick up.
You may be fine until someone pulls out in front of you, or a critter runs out, or you blow a tire and hit a oncoming car, or any of a thousand other scenero's. Problem is we can't control anybody or anything else around us. When something happens it is automatic that you are going to be at fault if hauling overloaded like that, even if it was the other person that caused the wreck.
Can't argue with that. Guess I better buy a semi tomorrow. In all seriousness I'm more worried about the guy pulling a ski boat with his half ton and a bunch of screaming kids while he's getting directions on his cell phone to the boat ramp from his buddy. I think it has allot to do with where you live and how well you keep your tow vehicle up. I own a c-store in a small town and if any of you met half the OTR truck drivers I deal with you would never get on the road again. Most can't turn a truck around much less back it up or speak english. I'm definitely not scared to pull my 10k skid steer with either pick up. Both have exhuast brakes and stop surprisingly well. Now my '95 F 250 feed truck on the other hand...well I wouldn't feel safe pulling a golf cart around and the truck is in excellent shape.
If you have money to buy a bigger cat you should be able to come up with money to buy a bigger truck. Too many things to go wrong pushing the limits of a pick up.
I'm going to add to the pile. I used to have a SRW cummins 1 ton that I towed around an approximately 19k load behind it with the trailer. I dont know the area you live at in Texas, but stopping that load about gave me ulcers when I was towing it in the hills of PA. I have since upgraded to a 4700 international and would never go back to a light duty truck. Towing the same load is pretty uneventful. I recently completed an undercarriage and bushing replacement on a straight 550 and I'm contemplating hauling it behind my current truck. I believe the dozer weighs somewhere around 20k or so. You couldn't give me enough money to put it behind that cummins. Ill tell you this though. Your a special person if you think putting the load over the tandems on the trailer and not getting 25% or so on the truck is correct. There is no way that f250 is going to handle the pin weight it needs to for having a chance at keeping that rig under control in any type of harder braking situation. We could delve into the electric brakes issues to but why bother.
Nobody here seems to understand the law. Either it's a 10,001 LB trailer, or GCW over 26,000. If it is 10,000 trailer, you're over CDL.
I pull some heavy sometimes and I'd be willing to bet my halfway decent electric brakes makes a better combination than the mercedes suv towing a big fishing boat with no surge or electric brakes. For my own comfort, I'm upgrading to electric/hydraulic disc brakes, use the weight on the trailer to stop the trailer seems like a logical thing. Electrics are only an 'assist' according to the mfg.
Lots of mixed answers here. I ordered a freightliner with a 52' deck just to be safe...
You are correct sir to a point. You actually need a class B cdl in a "commercial" vehicle towing a trailer up to 10,000 pounds, class A for over 10,000. Or that's the way I read it anywho.... That's the federal deal.
That's good! You did order it with the Jake brake right? :tong
Well, some of the law is a little contorted, Class A is usually defined as combined weight over 26,001 and having a trailer in excess of 10k. So an F250 GVW depending on year is about 8-10,000 pounds, that would leave you a trailer GVW between 16 and 18k to pop over the MCGVW greater than 260001 and trailer over 10k
I understand what your saying about some truck drivers. I had a guy in a semi get hung up not bad , a pickup could pull it out. I pull up to offer atow and he gets out wearing a turban and yells at me " I see you and run off road" , I replied go get ****cked and say see yah later. I quit watching Johnny Quest after that. Generally speaking most drivers are good at what they do and courteous.
Around here it is "tows any vehicle [trailer] in excess of 10,000 lbs" 26,000 applies to class B only.
Yea I shouldn't throw all truckers in one group. I have several friends that drive and most truckers are good folks like you say. Some just cause me a lot of grief though. Those guys get stuck in my ditches, tear up my parking lot, block cars in, pretty much just don't care. I bought a dozer in Kentucky and didn't feel comfortable hauling it to Tx with a 1 ton so hired it done...go figure guy showed up in a Dodge dually. I understand everyones concerns with towing heavy and doubt I would tow a really heavy load like the dozer out of the county. I didn't have an issue hauling the skid back from OKC though. It's an everyday day thing to see guys towing a equipment,hay, or say a 36' cattle trailer loaded with cows around here. Some of the stuff you see looks pretty sketchy. We rarely here of an accident involving a trailer though. Newer diesels have so much power they will pull almost any load, it's the getting it stopped that most people don't think about.
Its ok to haul a dozer from Kentucky in a Dodge as long as its a cummings ( pun intended ). If your not moving but a few times a month the calculated risk goes down significantly. 4 times a day maybe not a good idea. What about vac brakes on the trailer , don't they work decent ? Or do like people around here do , buy a dump truck and tag trailer and license it farm , you only have to have a medical card then. If you get a dump with a cummings and wear a turban it could be highly questionable. Highly.
Do I have to wear a seatbelt if I have my farm tags and turban on? I'm out on this thread. Good stuff though
Time to call the wrecker JS300 , LOL ! Know what your sayin Bro .:yup
You might get by with lots of stuff. But if you go out and wheel pack a school bus they are going to hold you to the letter of the law. The law is federal and supersedes all state laws. A cdl is required for any vehicle or combination of vehicles with a carrying capacity over 10,000.
Correct, however there are some exceptions that States may make. https://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/registration/commercial-drivers-license/states Not correct as far as the Fed rules go. Here is the Federal rules which constitute the minimum, states may be more restrictive. https://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/registration/commercial-drivers-license/drivers
STXRancher do run cattle down in South Tx? I know it's off subject but wondering how the cattle handle the country down there. I moved from South Tx to NE Tx been long time now
That's how these CDL threads go, folks like Heavey spouting off grossly wrong misinformation, then the thread totally derails.
That's about how me I run A few uears ago I bought a truck load of bred 3 year olds from down in Marfa. It took them awhile to adjust. Those cows walked more then any I've seen guess they was used to covering allot of country every day. Rain is the key to success and it's been a good year.
Yes you are right, Trailer over 10K and you are in the PRK (peoples republic of Kalifornia) then you need a class A California drivers license
This guy was going to haul this from Kansas all the way to Louisiana and I don't think he put oversize load signs on either looked way overloaded to me Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk
My truck is 12500 empty. I guess my trailer is 5500 empty A four ton load puts me at 26000 the threshold for class A cdl. I did a fair amount of research. The truck registered at 26000 needs no CDL without trailer. With 10,001 LB trailer it needs CDL even under 26000 GVWR. I can't remember the situation, but a customer found a loophole for his F350 dually, gooseneck, and load. I'll ask him about it. CDL isn't a big deal except for the games the DMV plays. I tested on their computer with a score of 95, I was told there was no requirement for a medical card in my situation. Upon arrival for my road test with hired truck, trailer, and class A driver, I was told the law would change in a few months. I would then need a medical card. Since they would eventually need one, I would not be allowed to test until I produced one. I made an appointment with my doctor, upon arrival I witnessed him get into an argument with his secretaries about their scheduling the appointment. In the exam room he vented about his anger with state or federal authorities who want him to pay for a week long training session on how to give DOT physicals. The people running these trainings are inevitably med school dropouts desperate for a job! He wasn't willing to waste a week a year learning from failures how to evaluate health. Appointment three: The examiner failed me on the pre trip inspection. I failed to inspect my mirrors, windshield, trailer headboard, or landing gear. I pointed out the trailer has no landing gear, or headboard. He responded that I should check them, and note that they don't exist. I said I had spent a week cleaning, primping, and confirming that all details were perfect, and drove it 23 miles to get there, so I'd have noticed. He reminded that every trip requires a pre trip inspection. Appointment Four: Again with a borrowed truck, trailer, and wasting part of a day for a class A CDL driver I must have accompany me, they announced they have no record of me having an appointment!!!!!!!!!!!!. Sorry, there are no exceptions, without an appointment, no test. Thank god I had no gun with me. Appointment five: My truck, trailer, and driver bailed on me. I don't blame him. I came close to giving up. In a panic, I scurried around, spent a couple thousand on my truck. My trailer had a fresh overhaul with wiring, brakes, tires, bed, and paint. I begged a retired independent trucker to accompany me. He was happy to do it, but said he no longer had a medical card. If they asked to see it we'd be red flagged at the DMV. They didn't ask! I spent two hours on pre trip. He all but begged me to stop. The road test went well except one underpass I've been under thousands of times in my life, after the trip, he asked if I happened to remember the posted clearance. I guessed 13' 6". The sign said 13' 7". He noted that as an error. In my case it wasn't easy. If you don't encounter people trying to make it impossible, it could be. Worst of it is they said I have high blood pressure! Ever see the movie Anger Management, with Adam Sandler? I now need a new medical card every year. Willie
The standard gooseneck hitch kits don't mount the ball far enough forward on the extended cab Dodges of that era, I had a '97. About three inches further forward you get a more balanced load on the truck, keeps the headlights aimed where they're supposed to be. I was good for 20,000 on the deck of my Eager Beaver gooseneck, but that looks like it might be heavier than that?
https://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/regulations/title49/part/393
You can either learn the law the easy way or the hard way It is all up to you
There are many exceptions to having a CDL. Big motor coaches, toterhomes etc. The CDL gets to be a kicker when you're "for hire" which is damn hard to deny hauling equipment until you factor farm tags in then all is fair regardless of license, medical card etc. The bottom line is like any other debate, CAN it be done? Yes. Should it? That's for each of us to decide. We all know there are drivers that could derail a freight train with a smart car while texting, live to tell the story and be completely oblivious! We've all given the poster our advice based on experience and background. We can rest assured an informed decision will be made. Let's not get into a manhood measuring contest over it. Junkyard
I think this has run it's course... somebody put it out of it's misery?
What part of that section states any commercial vehicle or combination of vehicles over 10K pounds requires a CDL? :beatsme
My blood pressure is up again. Spur of the moment a very good customer asked me to dig a hole for a tower foundation. He wants to pour concrete Friday, Tomorrow will be setting up the steel in the hole. I took truck, trailer, and backhoe, and dug the hole. Likely they need me to suspend the steel in the hole. I left the backhoe, might have left the trailer, but I was concerned about chains, & binders. Leaving at dusk, I discovered no running lights on the trailer. Brake lights, turns, and flashers worked. I had 9 miles to go, I reasoned it'd be best to get home and fix. That was fine until the blue lights appeared. He was psychotic like he was trained to be. Asked if I had a weapon. I never shoot police over a traffic ticket. He wanted my license along with registration. My license was in my tool box where I put my wallet earlier. He wouldn't let me get it. All the while he shined his flashlight in my eyes. Ultimately he watched me closely while looking at my inspection certificate, and plate. After firing several more questions geared toward making a 2,000,000 kilo cocaine bust, he gave me a written warning. CDL isn't as much fun as you might imagine. Willie
There is an awe inspiring amount of misinformation in this thread. If you pull that load with a 3/4 ton make sure you let me know so I can tell my family to stay off the road.
I didnt fully read through all the pages on this, however the way it was explained to me is as follows: I have a 95 dodge 1 ton flatbed (dually, 12 valve cummins, 5 speed) that has a payload capacity of 6500? "ive hauled 10k, but this is beyond that" And for a trailer I have a 20ft gooseneck with a 5ft dovetail (25ft of usable space) with tandem dually axles that is rated for 25,000lbs of payload. The limit in texas for a class C (typical license for driving a car) is 26,0001 lbs. So if you as much as hook the trailer to your truck, you need a CDL lol. But as the OP said in the first post, police generally dont care as long as your being safe, especially if you have farm plates. I hauled a 29,000lb telehandler from dallas to conroe without a problem, your mileage may vary.
A lot of misinformation here regarding trailers, as I understand the law in the US (I am North of 49 most of the time, but do work on your side of border). ANY trailer or towed vehicle with a gross weight 26,001 lbs. and up must have air brakes (or believe it or not, vacuum brakes!!). Yes, there are exceptions, but not for truck-trailers meant for the highway. So, while your trailer may be capable of 25k payload, there is no way you can legally pull that anywhere in North America. A note about trailers: electric drum brakes are just short of a poor joke. They exist because at 26,000 lbs. and down, there is a massive regulatory vacuum. You can not build a 26,001 lb. trailer that does not have ABS and meets a very specific braking performance standard. That should be a hint that what the 26k and down market provides for axles and brakes are no where near to modern standards for braking. The biggest problem of all is going to dual wheels on a 10k or 12k axle - as the brakes are normally meant to fit inside of a 16 inch wheel and are, well, let me be polite and just say they are inadequate. A 26k trailer is usually (best practice) pulled by a class 4 or 5 truck, typically with 4 x 15" disc brakes inside 19.5" wheels. The trailer behind it has four tiny drums, but weighs TWICE as much as the laden tow vehicle. Guess what is stopping the whole thing. Listen to those who are genuinely afraid of overloaded light trucks trying to pull medium duty loads. BTW: I design and build 26k trailers, so yes, I am biased, but got that way by doing stupid things for 50 years and lucky enough to survive to learn not to make those same mistakes.
The federal government doesnt control the roads in states, which is why individual states issue their own licenses; you know every states law on trailers? I am in no way an expert, and yes those drums are a joke, ask me how I experienced boiled brakes; you dont even begin to know what scared is until you boil your only hope of stopping. Im only talking about legality, not if its safe or not. Because when it really comes down to it; the load and vehicle are only as safe as the driver. please follow this link and scroll down to the License classes. C is most common (had one when I was 16) https://www.txdps.state.tx.us/DriverLicense/dlClasses.htm For those who wish to stay here; below is a copy paste. Class A: Authorizes an individual to drive a vehicle or combination of vehicles: Not described under a Class B or Class C driver license With a GVWR of 26,001 pounds or more provided the GVWR of the vehicle(s) towed is in excess of 10,000 pounds including vehicles in Class B or Class C ----------------------------------- Class B Authorizes an individual to drive: Any single vehicle with a GVWR of 26,001 pounds or more and any such vehicle towing a vehicle with a GVWR that does not exceed 10,000 pounds or a farm trailer with a GVWR that does not exceed 20,000 pounds A bus with a seating capacity of 24 passengers or more including the driver Any vehicle included in Class C ------------------------------------------ Class C Authorizes an individual to drive any single vehicle: Or combination of vehicles that are not included in Class A or Class B With a GVWR of less than 26,001 pounds towing a farm trailer with a GVWR that does not exceed 20,000 pounds Designed to transport 23 or less passengers including the driver; vehicles rated as 16-23 passengers including the driver require a Class C CDL unless exempt --------------------------------------------- Class M Authorizes an individual to drive a motorcycle or moped.
What I do know is that regardless of what state you are in, the FMVSS applies. Beyond that, individual states and provinces have a ridiculous bag of different laws for trailers under 26,000 and some that stand in conflict with FMVSS. We custom build, but are thinking of production, and the state and provincial variations are one of the massive hurdles to doing something intelligent. I have lost trailer brakes in the Rockies on a few different vehicles, and it is something no flatlander could ever imagine when it comes to consequences. It is one of the things that drives my own design and operating standards for trailers (and tow vehicles) today. In SK, a farmer can legally tow a 26k trailer of round bales, no tiedowns (!!) with a half ton pickup. Seems TX and a few others are almost as bad. A recent trend for provinces is a "heavy towing" endorsement for lower class licenses (we have 7 classes) to respond to the reality of the RV trailer industry - where 90% of what rolls down the road is illegal or just plain unsafe. There are extremes in this real world that far exceed what even the most careful driver can not overcome with skill and experience. Big trailers with laughable brakes behind tiny trucks (with similarly limited brakes and stability) is one of them. It is easy to be "safe" when crap is not happening (thus the endless testimonials of "I have done xxxx and everything went well".
I would like to know if I can legally pull a case 750 M WT at 20K pounds with my 2021 Dodge 1 ton flat bed with a high output diesel engine and Aisen transmission (rated to pull 37K) on my 20’ (+5’ dove tail) tandem dually gooseneck trailer rated at 25K load capacity. Empty trailer weight is 6.5K so total weight 26.5K And this is just as an individual moving my dozer from one of my properties to another. Not commercial with a not for hire decal on my truck, and without a CDL???
Rated pull is ridiculous. You're not using it in a truck pull competition. 26,500lbs. behind a 1 ton kind of is too. If you had to stop in a hurry the tail would wag the dog.
Look up the laws in your state and you will get your answer. We cannot possibly answer.
Well, I have an F-650 dump truck, but it weighs half as much as my trailer and dozer and though it’s new the brakes are ****** hydraulic. Wish they were air brakes like my A Class… pretty sure my Dode dually would stop quicker….
I need to move it from New Mexico to Arkansas.
Yeah, always a lot of big egos on such forums and no shortage of people being rude. The truth is you can consult a dozen different forums on this subject on the web and get an array of answers. It’s frustrating as hell. But I have to wonder what is the value of the DOT required labels affixed to trailers and tow vehicles if they aren’t to be followed or trusted and you’re going to be rjdiculed for asking your question…♂️
Big Egos? It’s usually the guys that come on here and think their 1-ton pickup is a semi that have the big egos. We get these questions on almost a weekly basis and the answer is always the same, get a bigger truck. In your case you state that you have a ‘new’ hyd brake F650, which is still not ideal for hauling a 20k dozer, but its a heck of a lot better option than a 1-ton pickup. FWIW, the tow ratings on these new light duty trucks are just pulled out of the truck mfg’s ***. They have nothing to do with safety or longevity, only about selling more trucks than the competition.
And you make my point. So tell me, if one is stopped by a DOT inspector, how does he determine what your trucks GVWR is?
Btw, I’m up and down the 1-40 corridor monthly and see numerous 18 wheeler wrecks. When something goes wrong you don’t think that 50,000 pound trailer is wagging that 20,000 pound tractor. That’s why they are brutal wrecks, flipped upside down, jack knived, etc…half of all tow vehicles are pulling much more than they weigh. All these 3 axle 5th wheel RV’s are double the weight of their tow vehicles.
As someone else said, there’s a difference between a person moving his equipment from one property where it just spent 3 years being worked to his other property where it’s going to set 4 years being worked, and a contractor who is moving his equipment from job to job every week. They deserve different answers quite logically. I’m not buying a two axle dump truck for 3 or 4 moves of my dozer over the 20 years I’ll own it…
I have a friend in Ft. Worth that could and would move it for you reasonable if you will allow the scheduling. He has a Landoll slide axle and is both careful, and experienced hauling equipment.
A five axle highway tractor trailer can gross 80,000 anywhere in the US. The truck is 46-47k, the trailer is 33-34k. The truck might weigh 18k by itself, but then it takes another 1.5 times it's own weight from the trailer.
Same here that's why we hire all our moves out to a local wrecker/lowbed service. Monte you need to hire it out and not have to worry with it. I'd PM 169 and get the guys info. Reality is you will need to research each state's CDL and weight laws you will be traveling through. Each one can be different and more stingent than the Fed rules. Just pay the money to have it hauled and be done with it. There is no way on God's Green Earth I would pull 20K behind a 1 ton dually from New Mexico to Arkansas. Even if the truck could safely handle the load it's all the 4 wheelers tic-tocking, fb'ing, eating and doing everything else but have their concentration on the road that's the real problem. I drive amongst these fools everyday.
You're sitting in a perfect case scenario for hiring the move. It's a huge can of worms when you start crossing state lines. In any case. Once you get it close to home, that's a whole another ball of wax. You can figure out local moves with your own stuff. I'm looking at this right now with a old road grader. I could go get it with a company truck but I have to cross into Oregon, I'll bet they don't have insurance across state lines, I don't have my license set up right.
I crossed state lines when I bought it and brought it to New Mexico. Using an F-250 diesel in those days….
I bought a truck and trailer to move my dozer, I’d get a CDL IF that’s actually necessary….before the hassle and expense of hiring it out….
They will look at the door sticker (which I think is what you are alluding to), and/or trailer sticker for the GVWR and Axle Weight ratings. They will then weigh each axle reference it to the 1) Tire weight limits, 2)mfg axle weight limits, 3)gross vehicle weight, 4)state/fed axle weight limits. You will be very close to being overweight on the rear axle/tires with that load. Regardless, there is still a difference to what is 'legal' and what is 'safe' especially when we're talking about these smaller trucks. You will need a CDL to legally move that dozer no matter what truck/trailer combo you come up with, unless it's for farm use, and then DOT is still going to hassle you when you go out of state. Also a CDL is not as easy to get as it once was, now you'll have to go to truck driver training school before they'll let you take the test. On top of that you'll probably also need a DOT physical/med card, and so on. It'd be far easier to hire it hauled if it's only on the rare occasion.
did you figure a route out that avoided the scales?
Hmm. Even many 1 tons have GVWR of over 10k. My 5500 is 19.5k and I tow a 25k trailer. I have a CDL, but not because of my pickup truck.
I thought they mostly go by the tire ratings. Doesn't matter what a sticker says if the tires aren't adequate. This appears to be a case of someone asking a question and not liking the answers so they somehow try to change the narrative to suit their way of thinking. 26,500lbs. behind a 1 ton is a bad idea.
Latest Ford pickup is single rear. Tow rating is 19500. Nope, math won't work. I believe VT says trailer GVW rate + Truck actual weight over 16000. A trailer rated for 10001 LB behind a truck 16000 actual requires CDL. Or total scale weight over 26000.
I would be surprised if DMV has a chart of tow rating for each truck. Whether you are exceeding your tow rating would have to be extreme if DMV were to pursue that fine. They have others. Vermont says any trailer over 10,000 LBS requires CDL. A few pages later, the truck actual weight plus trailer rated weight must be over 26000 to require CDL. I drove a truck titled 25999 with air brakes a number of years. No fine, I don't know if they could have. I then got a class A CDL. I don't believe I am limited as to tow rating. I've questioned, haven't got an answer. If I exceed trailer GVWR, I get a violation. If I exceed rear axle rating of the truck I get a violation. No one seems able to tell me the tow rating of my truck.
GCWR (tow ratings) are sometimes difficult to figure out for medium and heavy trucks where there can be literally dozens of engine, transmission, axle ratio etc combinations for a given truck. Most modern (80's to present) diesel powered/air brake class 7 trucks have a GCWR of around 50K, some setup as a semi tractor upwards of 60K. Given our steep/bad roads, ~40K gross combined weight is as heavy as I like to load mine.
If 25,800 is gross weight, and I believe it is..... the pickup/trailer combo is going to weight at or around at least 10,000. You're pushing the limit with the 450 dozer.
37000 Gross is the most I have hauled. That is low gear, 2000 RPM, 10 or less MPH up some of the hills around here. Younger generation has done some STUPID stuff I didn't find out until after the fact. One of the extra sons had my old truck 427 gas engine, 5 speed with two speed rear axle. He was towing a telehandler (20,000 LB on a borrowed trailer. Dugway Road South Wallingford is 1 lane & very steep, I'll guess 20% grade. Gravel road he was climbing, & spun out. Trying to back down, front wheels kept sliding sideways. He called Seth. It took Seth 1/2 hour to go the long way around with a 4x4 2500 & tow him up the hill. Said his legs had turned to jelly. Didn't dare turn off the engine, he needed air for the brakes.
I do not consider a 5500 a one ton. A 3500 is what I think of as a 1 ton. A single wheel 3500 has a tow rating under 20,000. A modern John Deere 450_ will weigh near 19000. With trailer you'd be over tow rating & well over CDL required.
Didn't say it was.
I would not have an issue hauling that locally as I do haul a similar weight on a similar set up. I would not try crossing numerous State lines doing that. Regardless of what anyone says, DOT laws are sometimes subjective, just as pointed out, you can ask difficult DOT questions to 10 DOT officers and get 5 different opinions. I would not want that kind of hassle in my life, and would hire it hauled to your location. Especially since it wouldn't cost that much to have hauled.
So they’re going to look at the sticker placed on the truck by the manufacturer who you said pulled a number out of their ass to see whether I’m overweight or not…..OK.
Yes, but not because my load won’t be legal. The manufacturers stickers on the truck and trailer cover my load. Of course there’s apparently a conflict on the whole sticker issue…..
Heh, I agree if you're not 200% comfortable, a hauling service is the way to go. I had to bail out of CA during the crash, couldn't find a uhaul truck anyplace within 1000 miles, everyone had the same idea. I had my 89 F250 with a 4.9 5 speed, 330k miles. Plenty of extra springs from being back east and hauling a slide in 2 yd sand spreader. Added a gooseneck and found a trailer local, 25 foot with a beavertail flat deck. Built some sides and loaded up all my stuff to move out. The performance of the truck was dismal, it'd pull 52 mph on the flat and I'm heading from CA to MA. The day I left was 9/11 so all the construction sites and dot spots were vacant and abandoned. I rolled over a scale in Reno to see about 28k combined weight, oops. I had been adding air to tires to keep the temperatures in check, decently over-inflated tires but they were running under 120f. Drive axles and bearing temps all seemed happy at every gas stop. The trip was slow but uneventful, that 4.9 ran 12+ hour days at full throttle and never a complaint. Still have the truck and trailer! I should have called a moving company!
My 1 ton Dodge dually has 14,000 So are you saying all the rednecks riding around in these Dodge one tons with HO engines and Aisin transmission’s towing nothing with their mirrors folded out are required to have a CDL…..
Yeah, and my point is that they are very unsafe, and these days those trucks will run 80 mph down the highway and do, following each other and other vehicles at distances that they could never respond to, constantly impeding the passing lane (out west here the interstates only have two lanes) and if anything happens they’re not stopping, they are going to jackknife, flip etc…
Mo DOT Brownshirts do, nearly every manufacturer has provided OEM By S/N stats as to GCWR GVWR. Seen the Laptop Database in use, removing tags or labels does no good except to add Over Weight to Tires, Axles, Suspension as the DOT boys and Girls can write up.
I think raising the tires issue is a valid point and must be looked at. But I don’t think I’ve changed a narrative. But no, you’re right that I don’t like the answers. Here as all other forums that I’ve posted the question the answers vary significantly. It’s like tacking my box of tax papers to 10 different CPA’s and asking them to file my taxes and getting it back from each one with ten different results on deductions, what I owe etc. same thing taking a legal question to ten different attorneys and getting 10 different answers……
Explain that to a DOT person and see how it flies, Lead balloons do not bode well. DOT here is applying pressure on all manner of Hot Shot style transport since have had numbers of incidents Overweight, Overloaded to GCWR, Tire Failures, Axle Failures and lives threatened. Do not listen to anyone just take off and do it your way, Your Cash, Your License, YOUR insurance. Pays your Money Takes your Chances.
According to what, the sticker on the door jamb or trailer with a number on it that the manufacturer pulled out of their ass that DOT is going to check to see that you’ve loaded according to……
Wish the sticker on the truck had a GCWR. Why is it all so difficult. If it’s that damn important why is it that forum after forum, these discussions go on page after page and there is NO consensus, even arguments, sometimes fights leading to moderators shutting down threads as is even the case on one thread in this forum….. I’ve got a truck and trailer with manufactures data which covers my load and I’ll move my equipment when I get ready to as I have 2-3 times in the past. That’s over a 15 year period. I’m not out there on a regular basis moving heavy equipment for others for hire.
Explain what to DOT? That my load complies with the manufacturer’s data on the stickers that NTSB requires manufacturers to affix to vehicles so that we know what our load limits are……
And again, I move my equipment once every few years. I’m NOT commercial, I’m NOT a hotshot driver……♂️
The common answer is, you will be at the mercy of the DOT guy who gets you in his sights and HIS interpretation. Everybody says ask DOT 6 times and get 6 different answers, so you can see the problem. My issue is this: I have pulled heavy trailers with electric brakes, and I have had something happen, a loose plug or whatever and was on the highway at full speed with no trailer brakes. They worked when I hooked up and checked the brakes, and then they didn't. It is just 1 wire in a plug. There is no alert or chime or red light, no clue unless you look at the brake controller and see the little "N.C". There is no alternative method, no hand brake lever, nothing. It's just you and a heavy trailer and only the truck brakes now, no fun at all. Compare that to air brakes. I hook them up and check them. If a hose pops off or breaks, the whole rig is coming to a stop. If the air pressure gets too low I get a light and an alarm in my view. I don't deal with that and the whole rig is coming to a stop. On the electric brake rig, a wire or connector gets loose and the whole rig comes to a go go go baby.
If I did listen to someone, which poster would I listen to? You guys are all getting butt hurt here, yet you can’t even agree or all come to a consensus on this yourselves. And that’s not just here. Go to Facebook or any other heavy equipment forum and look at these discussions, it’s freakin ridiculous the amount of disagreement and ******** one has to wade through only to get nowhere….
I believe your first sentence is likely accurate….but I’m also betting that if my load is within the limits of the manufacturers posted data, I win in court if DOT tickets me… Also, I don’t travel “full speed” when moving my equipment. I back road it and take my time. As to trailer breaks, I squeeze the two levers on the trailer brake controller together regularly to check them, at slow speed, you can feel the trailer pull. Also, if there is a problem in the wiring, the dash message says “no trailer connected” when you squeeze them. Well of course there IS a trailer connected, and I’m looking at it in the mirror…. So that is indication of a problem as well….
so why ask? As one of the other posters here would say, nothing will happen, you'll get there OK, never see a DOT guy and this is the normal thing now. If you get in a fender bender or get pulled over and sidelined, have to park it and hire a haul, winning in court will be a moot point. They say park it you park it. A few weeks later you get your ticket thrown out, but what have you done in the meantime? I weigh all that above with hiring a haul and I cannot see what the hassle is of hiring the haul in the first place. Professional outfits do it all the time. It is part of doing business.
The last time the two posters you quoted above were on HEF was 2016 and 2017 respectfully so you probably will not get a response from StxRancher nor Heavey Metal. Currently you seem the only one getting "butthurt" since you've asked a question and the consensus is don't do it.
Yeah, pretty damn unacceptable that the “law” is so confusing that the DOT brownshirts don’t even understand it and asking six DOT inspectors will net you 6 diffent answers…..
I think everyone agrees that there is 'no consensus' At the time I ran my own crap coast to coast, I called my home state police truck team and spoke with the LT on duty, I knew I was heavy and was told at the time, 2001, if its your personal property and not part of a business transaction, you are exempt from CDL requirements in this state' Now I had that piece of paper and the LT's cell phone number with me for the trip (for state reciprocity). Now DOT would have had my ass over the coals as I was way over the sidewall and axle ratings on truck and trailer, all of them. There are a lot of 'Depends' which is and is not an answer. The feeling is that if you're within axle and tire ratings, manufacturers towing rating be damned. (who has the picture of a dually and pintle ring towing a 53 foot box on a dolly)
What’s a win in your mind? The absolute best is they drop tickets. You will be out your time, any expenses and believe me now they’re gonna watch for you to make any little infraction. It’s what they do. We’re all speaking from direct experience. It seems to me that the answers you’re getting aren’t what you seek. I can tell you from experience that most states look at GVW of truck and trailer. Add those up and if they exceed 26001 you’re in CDL territory. How and when they choose to enforce that is up to them. Every single solitary law or rule is subject to their mood or discretion. That’s what makes it hard to give you advice or direction. Having run all 48 and some of Canada with big trailers I’ve met some great officers and some royal douches. You can argue, cite laws, reference other forums or whatever you want. We’re trying to give firsthand experience, possibly save a major headache or worse. It’s interesting to me that you came here seeking advice and seem to want to argue and contradict most of it. We didn’t catch you at the fuel stop and start picking apart your rig or questioning your license. There isn’t really a straightforward answer to your questions. It is 100% at the mercy of whoever stops you.
Why ask. I suppose that one might expect that in time, the confusion gets remedied and all 6 DOT inspectors understand the regulations they are enforcing and we finally all know that the manufacturers sticker on trucks and trailers is accurate and these forum threads are no longer necessary. But apparently not….
Yeah, see, you were running your crap coast to coast. There’s a big disconnect here and every other forum on this subject. You’ve got the guy like me that moves something once every few years, that gets piled on by all the CDL guys moving heavy loads down the interstate daily with all kinds of personal experiences and it never seems to get separated. I can assure you that if I was a commercial driver, hauling equipment for OTHERS at a fee, I’d have a commercial license, I’d have a tractor and flatbed, and I’d have the maximum limits on insurance, and not just on truck and trailer, but the clients equipment, and a liability policy for my company that would be an LLC……♂️
Well, I think I’ve made clear that a “WIN” would be that the law was pellucid, and that all 6 DOT brown shirts understood it and gave the same answers, that the NTSB required stickers on trucks and trailers was accurate and that I could load and move according to it…..♂️
It’s not arguing and contradicting to point out that you guys can’t even come to consensus, or get tangled in your own commentary like telling me that manufacturers pull load limits out of there ass and put them on a door jamb sticker that the DOT brown shirt is going to look at to determine if I’m in compliance….
When I was in the mind to do bad things, like slapping an old triple axle air brake eager beaver behind a pickup, no spring brakes thankfully (or not) but later found that in europe, a trailer over a certain weight has to have air brakes, they had hydraulic to air relay valves to control the trailer air brakes on a non air brake tractor/tow vehicle, you get the service and emergency line and a single button on the dash for parking. Looks tempting!! I gotta say after hauling triple live axle hay wagons more than 15 miles on the road behind a JD 6300 tractor, air brakes would have been welcome!!
Probably the most accurate thing you said and makes the rest moot….
The forum thread is not the vehicle to remedy the confusion and get those inspectors lined up. We just tell you what we have experienced. If you are seeking change or vindication or whatever else, you came to the wrong place. Recently, I got 22K tonnage on my personal 3500 SRW to cover a load I took across a few state lines. Nobody flagged me in and I was under the required stop at the scales for 26K and over. Did I need the tonnage? Apparently I could have skated through on that, but from personal experience, I did not want the furball that could happen if I did get pulled over.
Keep my windows clean, trailer deck clean, lights working, chains tight, trailer well painted and looking in good order, all my stuff and also avoid known dot hot spots. Officer I have no idea where that trailer came from.
Yeah, that’s apparent……
PERFECT…..
Feel free to go elsewhere.
Will not get vindication nor a allowance commentaries here. Try your game on the road, you make it you win, you don’t, well, you were told. Most of us on your thread do have CDL, the majority will chance a slight overload around town or county but likely NOT interstate as the fines and fees are seriously stupid. In most cases will park you until get a qualified truck to haul out from DOT stop. Wanna play, will say again, your Dime not ours and Your choice.
Funny that you guys all agree that the law is as clear as mud, that not even the enforcement officers agree on it and you want to run me off for pointing it out, lmbo….
Because we read it AS WRITTEN, Nothing New and Nothing Muddy. Take it to a DOT officer, we DO NOT CARE.
Feel free to go elsewhere for agreeing with the poster…..lol
14,000 more than 26,000?
Cap locking me now huh, lol… No clear answers, the DOT brown shirts don’t even know the law they’re enforcing but I’m the guy that needs to run along….hahaha….Ok fellas.
You should probably try one of the harry homeowner compact tractor fourms, I'd bet they're more likely revere your 1-ton semi and deep knowledge of CDL and DOT law. I apologize that most of use here have real world experience and aren't giving you the answer you want to hear....
Some threads are just destined to enter the realm of ridiculousness.
Time to lock it down I feel as has entered the combative state.
I don’t have any deep knowledge of DOT law, and you can’t quote me suggesting so. I came here asking what DOT law is only to be told that not even the DOT inspectors know….
CLOSED