Is it okay to leave the Backhoe's Engine Block Heater plugged in all the time when its very cold out? I've been keeping the Stock Heating Unit plugged in for very long periods all day and into the night, sometimes I'll unplug it because I'm not sure if its okay to keep it plugged in, but only when its very cold outside being I keep the Backhoe stored outside. The temperature has been between 3º to 8º all night long, and 15º during the day, so I've been keeping the heater plugged in, even though the last time I checked the antifreeze was good for -15 degrees below, but I get a little worried when the temp dips that low, in case of wind chill my thermometer is not picking up thats in the window. I wasn't sure if the heating unit was built for long use periods, and I haven't checked the manuals yet to see what John Deere says, I figured to hear what others have experienced. Joe
You can leave it pluged in all winter. Many people do. Only thing to worry about is your electrical bill. I beleive they draw 1000 or 1500 watts.
Yes, you can leave it plugged in all the time. But there's no reason to. The heating element will burn out eventually so leaving it plugged in is a terrible way to keep the coolant from freezing, plus what happens if the power goes out? A couple gallons of new antifreeze is cheap compared to what that will do to your electric bill, not to mention cracking something or corroding your engine. You don't have to worry about the wind chill, it can be blowing 40mph and the temperature of the engine won't be any colder than the thermometer (just not much warmer if it's plugged in). Around here we only get significant snow if it's around freezing, so the backhoe will start if you don't wait a day and let the temp drop, but it starts much happier if it's plugged in for an hour before starting.
Great, thank you!! I remembered I had a device that once plugged in line with the engine block heater it measured electrical specs, it tells me the KWH Per Hr, Volt, Amps, WATTS, Hz/PF, etc… I plugged it in line with the block heater and its exactly what you said, the Wattage that came up was 968 Watts, that's like having 10 100W light bulbs going all the time. Thanks again!! Joe
Hi Delmer how are you… This is whats been going on, I did change the antifreeze using the John Deere Antifreeze with the JD Additive. That was about Two years ago, maybe Three I forget. I don't have real heavy hours on it since I changed the Antifreeze, I figured Antifreeze wears down due to use than age (guessing). Last time I checked the Antifreeze just before this Winter it showed it was in good shape, protected to something like -15 below, but that worried me being I'm use to seeing antifreeze protection at the -25 when I do the cars and trucks, and especially with the low temps we've been getting here in CT. I feel better when the tester shows -25º. And since the Backhoe showed it was protected to -15º it bothered me because the temps have been reaching -3º and until you mentioned what to expect from the wind chill I didn't know what the wind chill does being it stays outside, so I figured while the temps are in the single digits I'll turn the block heater on and off using my educated guess when I need it on for a few hours, then shut it off come morning during the day when the temps warm up. "I think" I have another 2.5 Gallong of the JD antifreeze, I need to look for it… I knew I should have changed it for this Winter, but its not common lately that we get Single digits temps. I forgot all about the block heating unit wearing out faster when left on all the time until you mentioned it, so I'll use it sparingly when the temps hit real low. Thanks Delmer!
I just had to chime in here because this is the second time you mentioned windchill. Windchill has no effect on inanimate objects other than possibly cooling them down quicker. An inanimate object cannot have a temperature lower than the ambient temperature (provided it's cold, of course). Secondly, I hope you used heavy duty antifreeze. With a thorough flush, hd antifreeze out to last 5-7 or more years on medium duty equipment , provided you use less than 1000 hours per annum. Thirdly, although block heaters will theoretically wear out quicker with continued use, and you'll have a higher electrical bill, they are simple things, and a well made one will last ten or more years. I have plugged my heater in 24-7 for my snowplow (K2500) for the past five years so I can use it on demand, and it works like new. Not much can wrong with them. And a block heater is simple to install...even simpler to replace. I just had to plumb a recirculating pump on my backhoe because the designated block heater wouldn't fit...and that took almost a full day. Just make certain you're using the correct antifreeze per specs (usually no more than 70%), and you'll be fine. -0' is nothin' (when you're used to it).
If you have it protected to 15 below it will never freeze solid anyway. At worst it will get somewhat slushy in the colder weather . It wont freeze enough to crack anything
Do yourself and your wallet a favor and buy yourself a heavy duty timer for your block heater.Time it for 2-3 hours before you need to start it and you'll be golden.
Back again after about a year and a half from asking questions about my engine coolant block heater. (It looks to be a JD Factory Installed Heating Element) It looks like my block heater burned out. I had it plugged in for an hour and the machine (1988 JD 310c) would not start acting like the heater was never plugged in while cranking it over, I knew right away it was not working. So I'll assume it's the heating element after having performed the preliminary checks of the extension cord, etc…. although I didn't take an ohm meter to it because I'm not sure what the reading would be, plus not even knowing if thats the way to check it in the first place. I'm back being more curious to ask if anybody knows if the burnt out heating element will give me problems to removing it… because if its frozen in place perhaps I should go another way with installing another kind of heater someplace else, then there is the question what are my other options? I looked at what seemed to be the replacement kit and there looks to be a large nut that is some kind of plastic part? Any help always appreciated…. thanks a bunch… Joe
Remove the power cord from the element and check it for continuity, inspect for burned contacts. There should be a chrome knurled nut that holds the power cord on if I remember correctly. Fairly common failure point. As a guess the heating element itself will read around a hundred ohms give or take. These are usually bone easy to remove and replace, the new element should have an instruction sheet which will show you the proper orientation for the element inside the water jacket
Thank you for the info Iantraxco… I was thinking, when you mentioned it's common for the power cord to burn out where it connects to the heating element this is going to be some fancy and custom repair work if this happens to be whats wrong if I fix just the cord, but first I'll check with the dealer if the cord is serviceable, perhaps ordering the entire kit once I get into it and know whats wrong, might be the better way to go. The JD on line parts list shows a part number just for the cord. I'll post back after I call the dealer to find out if just the cord is serviceable for future referencing, but if this happens to be the problem hopefully there is a repair kit just for the cord connecting to the heating element. If I can I will post some pictures... Thanks again Iantraxco, I totally forgot to look all the way down the electrical line for a burnt connection at the heating element.
The cord is available as a separate part, there are as I recall two pins on the element that the cord connects to. It's a real simple plug affair similar to the old coffee pots and such, except there's a ring nut to lock the plug to the element socket. Remember when most of the small kitchen appliances had plug in cords that we kept in a pile in a drawer? LOL
About 40 ohms for 400 watts, lower ohms for higher wattage heaters. You should be able to easily see the cord spark when you plug it into an extension cord in anything but bright daylight.
After you check the power cord... If the heating element has to be replaced, here's a thread with pictures. I started it as a fan belt change, ended with the block heater. The whole kit cost less than the combined cost of the element & cord alone. HeavyEquipmentForums
hosspuller, I like when you guys put instructions like that. One question. Is it possible to loose the heater element assembly into the engine block? I don't mean if you brake it off, I mean as a whole assembly.
I checked the coolant heating element and I got a steady 13.5 Ohm across the two pins. I figure that might be too too low of a reading, but thats just a guess… so before I ran out to buy a heating element I wanted to recheck everything, so I now plugged it back in and now I'm getting heat right away, not even a minutes time at the base of the heating element. In the mean time I cleaned up everything and rechecked this and that and maybe there might have been a dusty extension cord plug-in connection to the heating element cord, after all it was plugged in and left outside for over 6 years, but it looked good when I first looked at it. I have this gadget that I plug into the wall outlet and then you can plug the heater into it and get all kinds of reading, such as the volt, ohm, KWH, etc… and so far I plugged everything back together and since I'm now getting heat at the base of the heater I'm going to wait and see whats up then post back. I don't want to speculate now that I don't have an answer on why I'm now getting heat, maybe the backhoe is not starting up, but then when it didn't start before I felt the block and it was too cold after being plugged in for an hour on a not so cold day, and there was smoke coming out of the exhaust pipe like it was almost ready to start, this is why I figured it was the heating element… I'll post back when I figure out more. So far the unit shows its drawing 968amps, it shows the proper voltage while plugged in according to the gadget I have. oh geeeeze!
You just had a loose connection somewhere. That's over 1,000 watts, a lot of power for a block heater, and a lot of power for an extension cord. Try to use a short 12gauge cord with good plugs on both ends so you don't start a fire, or melt a connection and have it cold when you're expecting it to start. An hour at 1,000 watts will warm that in any temps you need to plow in.
Like you said Delmer, that had to be it "a bad connection", it sure fooled me this time around, next time I won't be so quick to go over the preliminaries when diagnosing. Oh well, at least we now know a 1000 watt engine block coolant heater on a 1988 JD 310c is 13.5 Ohm across the pins lol…. I think I'm using a 16 gauge extension cord, it does heat up a bit but only about 8 inches off the power source outlet, I might as well do like you say and go to a 12 gauge extension cord now.
I'm sure anything is possible when one is working on these machines. But It's not likely. The heating element is "L" shaped with a good bit of shaft to hold on to. The large nut has to be removed to allow the "L" to be inserted into the block. If the element is broken off... then it's an "anything is possible " situation.
….and them old time percolator coffee pot cords get real hot and soft too, I took one pot apart one time and there looks to be a real heavy duty heating element in them coffee pots lol…
They needed it to burn the coffee like that, LOL
I'm back….. The prior info in this post recaps how the engine coolant block heater was not working and when I cleaned up the leads and contacts I thought I fixed it…., but it is not fixed…, after plugged in for 4 hours the engine block is hardly warm to the touch, the temperature has been hovering in the single digits for the last 5 days, so it's sort of working but not enough obviously. Okay, so I get it..., the block heater must be on its way out and needs replacement, seems like the only things left. But before I do that I wanted to throw this bit of info out there about the wattage reading I'm getting, because I don't understand it and just hate it when I replace something and its not what's wrong. Why does the engine block coolant heater draw 967 Watts according to the meter I use and it's barely warming the area where the block heater is installed? I never had an issue in the past during the Winter. Back when I had no problems I use to have it plugged in for no more than 1.5 hours and it started right up. How I checked this is I have this meter plugged into the wall outlet, then the extension cord plugged into the meter to get the readings, and what I get is this; 118.0 Volts… 8.23 Amps… 967 Watts… My understanding is I should not get any Wattage readings, Amps too I believe..., am I wrong? or at least something like 100 to 200 Watts if the heater is on its way out…. or even if the extension cord was weaken and fried in spots would I still be getting the 967 Watts??? even with a 8.23 Amp Draw? I even used the meter on a heater I have under the desk just to test the meter, and even the heater under my desk shows almost a 1000 watts, but draws less amps than the backhoe heater lol… oh geeeze! oh yeah by the way it's a JD 310c that looks to be the factory stock unit.
Volts times amps = Watts. If it's pulling almost a thousand watts, it's turning it into heat, you can't beat physics. You DO have a thermostat in this engine yeah? Even then the bypass may allow enough circulation to let a lot of the heat dissipate out the radiator.
My stock heater in a 310C makes a faint sizzling noise when heating. Can you hear anything ? 967 watts is going somewhere. Perhaps the heater is shorting out and the power is going through the metal of the block instead of the element. I seem to remember the element was 1200 watts ??? Take a Ohm measurement between each pin and the block. If you get any reading 1, it's dangerous. 2. the power is dissipating through the machine to ground. Otherwise ... Lantraxco is on the right track. Something is taking away the heat.
Put some snow on the bottom radiator tank. If it melts you need a new thermostat. For the winter just drain enough antifreeze so the level is below the bottom of the inlet to the radiator top tank, no more thermosiphon.
I never would have thought of that Delmer, good idea! :notworthy
It really keeps the engine warm too, if you shut it off for an hour when it's cold.
You guys nailed it!!! I can't believe I was always feeling the left side of the engine and it was always cold, so I just assumed the rest of the engine was cold… but after all the help you guys gave me I went to the right side and was so shocked on how very warm the engine was all on the right side, so after realizing that I cranked it over until it started up…. Before I didn't think it was necessary or even practical to be foolish to crank an engine that you know it was too cold to start, but little that I knew the heated coolant from the block heater was flowing back out into the radiator and getting cooled down too much… but what I don't understand is why was the left side of the engine cold and the right side so very warm? I don't think there was an air gap in the block on the left side? I really don't know the engine that well like you guys, so I'll take a guess and figure when the coolant flows back into the engine it favors the left side? then the coolant flows across the water jackets letting the coolant flow over to the right, but then the heater is on the left…. I don't know, but I can't thank you enough times for the help. So I'll need to replace the thermostat, thats if there was even one in there, if there was none I wonder if I should not put one back in? also I figure its a good idea now to install a temp gauge, so now having learned all this perhaps the right side of the engine seems like the best spot for the sensor? unless the coolant flows differently when running? Well anyway I still need to figure out the specifics on what you all were explaining to me, thank you!! I was ready to install a heater element for no good reason... ~Joe
Not sure if any one has mentioned it here but it is always a good idea to disconnect a block heater BEFORE cranking over an engine. If engine starts with the block heater working it is possible for enough air bubbles to go past the heating element to cause it to burn out. May not happen very often but why risk a failed heater in the middle of a cold spell?
hosspuller, I don't hear a sizzling sound, back last year I did pull the lead off the pins and got 13.5 ohm across both pins, good info to know…, all great ideas you have, I was going to do it all and then I found out what was going on, I believe you'll get the same post on what I found, thanks for the help...
Oh Geeeze good to know, I always start first then unplug shortly after, or at least run the cord over to unplug it lol….