Up in Mammoth getting buried and can't get anyone up here to fix this due to weather and road closures. I've changed all filters and oil but it's still smoking black under load with a noticeable power loss. Running a SB240 blower. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
Hi. I addressed this question to my uncle, he works with this kind of equipment. He sent me back this: Hope it will help.
Black smoke indicates unburned fuel. Is the engine puffing black smoke or rolling it out like a train? There is a possibility you have an injector problem.
How’s your air filter? Maybe during snowblowing it is ingesting snow and icing off. Usually while snowblowing you may have to do something with the air intake to prevent it
I'm leaning towards a bad turbo. I'm at over 8,000 feet here and based on one of the replies that black smoke equates to unburnt fuel makes me wonder. The heavier smoke is when under load and the power is really wanting when blower is ingaged or climbing any kind of incline. All filters new and fresh oil change. Thanks!
Because you have unburned fuel out of the exhaust means your turbocharger will not work efficiently anyway. The fuel has to burn completely to create the heat expansion to spool that turbo and create boost pressure. Also, a bad turbo will usually create a bluish grey smoke due to the lubricating oil being burned in the combustion chambers or hot exhaust piping. I believe the only way this may be a turbo issue is if the impeller is damaged or is locked up completely. Im still leaning on a injector problem.
Doesn't that engine have a timing belt. Is it a Deutz 1011 engine . Maybe the belt is bad or jumped one tooth. This would limit power and cause smoke as Vetech said. I have changed 2 belts on 1011 Series engines years ago and not too hard if you have the special pins too lock timing. Just wondering. Simon C
A boost leak would do it also.
I would start by fully checking the air intake system before the turbo for obstructions. Can you see the turbo compressor wheel with the intake removed to see if it is even spinning while running? You could try it briefly with the intake removed. Does that turbo have a waste gate? If so and it's stuck open, you won't make boost pressure. I had a problem like yours once in heavy snow while plowing. Smoking like crazy and my pyrometer was freaking out. Pulled it into the garage and found the air filter housing packed with snow
Very hard to play arm chair diesel doctor without additional information. 1. When was the last time it ran normally? 2. Was the machine sitting for a extended time prior to noticing the problem 3 Diesel engines move a lot of air even at idle. Does it seem to have normal exhaust flow out of the tail pipe? In my almost 70 years, I've seen more weird stuff then I care to remember. Any obstruction in the flow of air from the inlet of the air filter to the tip of the exhaust pipe will inhibit the turbo's ability to spool up. Equipment that has been sitting a while can make a nice home for wasp nests, mouse nests and a convenient storage place for squirrels to store their winter food. I recently found about 5 lbs of acorns in a Corvette muffler that had been sitting for 6 months. So any additional information "could" help.
The 863 was running fine for a couple of weeks although being worked very hard with the near record snowfall. Can't get anyone from Bobcat up here due to road closures so am trying to get it fixed myself. Have a new turbo and injectors on the way. Hopefully this will help. Thanks everyone for your help as I'm really screwed until I can get this thing fixed.
I would start with the turbo. Inspect everything you take off closely for obstructions/damage. Without seeing it, I suspect you will stumble on the problem while taking it apart. When you get to where you can see the turbo compressor wheel, you should be able to spin it by hand. If not and it's seized, you found your problem. If it spins freely, I would spend more time inspecting other stuff before swapping it out. I'm pretty sure the 863 has a primary and secondary air filter. Double check both and all associated piping first.
Again, thanks stefuel. I've replaced all filters and should hopefully get the parts in the next few days. Fingers crossed as we just surpassed 600 inches of snow.
I know you need to get this machine going but I feel like you are just throwing expensive parts at it with a prayer. Doing this can get extremely expensive and may not do a thing. Good luck!
Interested in what you find when you dig into it. Not a big fan of throwing money at something until it works. Even if there's multiple issues, I like to confirm a part bad before I swap it out. Also, when no other option is available, Swap one part at a time and test. Nothing worse then adding a new defective part to complicate things
If you're ordering parts add a set of timing pins. the camshaft is not keyed on those and can slip. Would be a twenty minute job to check and verify timing. Although the air/ turbo would be a top concern too.
Just got the replacement turbo and will put in tomorrow. Based on the soot stains on the bobcat including the side vents for the cooling fan, my hope is that it is a faulty turbo. Will update tomorrow. Thanks again to all of you. Wish me luck as we have feet more of snow coming next week. God I'm too old for this!
You never said anything about soot stains coming from the engine area. 100% of the exhaust should be going out the tail pipe even if it's running poorly. Find the source of the exhaust leak and I suspect you'll have solved the mystery
Turbo has oil all over the intake tube. Plus, they sent me the wrong turbo. Major soot in the exhaust outlet. Is this due to a bad turbo? I can't get a Bobcat tech up here so appreciate any help
tube between the air filter and turbo, or tube between the turbo and intake manifold??? Start posting pictures. If there's oil in the tube before the turbo (suction side), is there a PCV valve or some other form of crank case ventilation connected to the inlet piping??? If the oil is in the tube between the turbo and engine (boosted side) I'm guessing the turbo oil seal has failed. Does the turbo spin freely with no side to side play??? If you post pictures, perhaps someone with the exact same engine can help. Is the machine inside where it's warm or are you working on it outside in the cold???. If it's outside, I'm still worried that the air filter could be full of snow. Even with a new filter, under the right conditions, the intake could plug up with snow in a very short time
Bobcat is outside sadly. Started tearing it down this AM when it was 19 degrees. Oil is in the intake side and the impeller on the boosted hide is black with soot. It spins freely but didn't notice any side play. Wondering if the oil seal blew hence my symptoms. No snow has ever been in the filter housing due to its design.
You're assuming there's no snow in the filter assembly??? You haven't even checked??? I'm done here.
Black smoke = Heavy soot. A new turbo isn't going to fix that. The black smoke is what fuel isn't burning, some soot in the exhaust side of the turbo is normal. Black smoke is either lack of boost pressure due to a leak in the intake system, a failed turbo, leakage in the exhaust system, or lack of sufficient compression in most cases. Black smoke is also caused by over fueling due to a faulty injector (s), timing being off, or lack of compression, in most cases. Does the engine black smoke as soon as you start it at idle? Or only when revved up? Engine under load or no load? Is it puffing or rolling? Until you answer these questions, we are just farting in the wind here.
Stefuel, sorry for the misunderstanding. The entire intake system (filter, filter housing, intake tube, etc.) Is apart with absolutely no moisture noted. Thanks anyway for your attemps.
Vetech63, again steady light black smoke at idle then increases under load. New turbo has the wrong oil return fitting but there was oil in the intake side of the turbo and the fins on the exhaust were coated with soot. Appreciate your patience as I am not a mechanic and doing the best I can to get this POS up and running again.
Sorry to say. . . but I don't feel it's a turbo. Light black smoke at idle is not a boost issue, for the simple reason there is normally no boost at idle. Oil in the turbo intake, suction side, comes from the breather/crankcase ventilation and is normal. I'm leaning towards timing, either belt that jumped a tooth, or slipped cam gear.
There is usually soot on the exhaust impeller. Borrow timing pins from someone or have someone check it for you before spending the big money. Breather vent will put some oil into intake side as Ozarkag said in his above post. And yes no boost at idle unless under load like stalling out. Simon C
Want to thank all of you for your help! I finally got the right turbo and injectors for the 863 and after many swear words, got them installed. Runs like new. Thank you all!
Ive also got a 863 g series three months ago I pulled the motor out to replace motor mounts and the oil pan that rubbed a hole through the bottom thanks to the mounts, changed timing belt and some other stuff. Ran like a champ for the begining of the concrete construction season, then out of the blue it started rolling out the smoke, like light grey smoke. Just swapped out the injectors yesterday and there has been no change in the smoke so guessing the turbo will be next. Super sucks. Will have dumped about 10 grand into this machine within the last 6 months so reading about you issues definitely relates to mines issues. Next up target practice with the 45-70 perhaps ?
$10000 is a bit of money, but that size machine is going for 100 - 120 thousand in Canada. Fixing might be cheaper. New ones break down also. Simon C
Well. .. . . a new 90 hp compact track loader is, yes. A decent used Bobcat 863, a 20 to 30 year old machine- is probably only worth about 15,000 USD. Chad, while turbo is definitely on the list of possible failures, headgasket failures are quite common on the Deutz as well. A quick physical check for wobble on the turbo shaft would be the next step.
Suggest as ozarkag posted about checking the turbo and head gaskets. And yes used machines cost only a fraction of new and are good for people who use only few hours a year. Not every one can afford a $3000 payment per month. I just finished paying for a Deere 332G and yes if used enough worth it otherwise cheaper fixer upper is way to go. Simon C