Hello all, I Recently picked up a 2004 S185 and it has issues with loader arm drift. I read through the numerous forums and can't find any posts with the same symptoms. The loader arm drifts down fast. Lifting the lap belt or turning off the machine stop the drift. It only drifts one way, if I use the loader to pick up the machine it holds well. Functioning the auxiliary hydraulics(snowblade, turning it back and forth) will lift the loader arms. Just slightly but if continually functioning them I can lift it all the way in a few minutes. I was assuming I would be rebuilding the control valve until I noticed the auxiliary hydraulics issue... I guess it could be both valves, or maybe a cracked control block? Also, with the lap belt up the brake is on but controls are still active, so if you bump a stick while getting in the machine will try and drive then stall. Should the controls not be bypassed/locked out with the band up? Any help would be greatly appreciated.
The brake just drops a wedge into cut outs that are attached to the front axles and won't let it drive forward or back. There is some play in the system so the levers will move the machine to an extent until the wedge comes in contact with the front/back of the disc. The issue with the lift arm may possibly be a relief stuck open or a check valve not functioning properly. I am not 100% sure where to start though hopefully some of the smarter guys show up for you.
Good news thanks, that part appears to be working as it should then. Maybe the last one I ran was newer with electric over hydraulic controls which would have been locked out with the lap band up. Yeah I doubt anyone will be able to point me exactly at the part that needs to be changed. I lifted the cab off and had a look at the control block, does not look fun to pull out...
Dahendo, Did you ever figure out what was going on with your S185?
After a bit of screwing around, I managed to produce an external leak off the control block while continuing to function the lift arms at maximum lift. It appears to be coming from the spool valve. I've got the seals, just haven't had time to pull the block out and inspect. I'll make sure to post an update with some pictures once I repair it for everyones reference. Plan to rebuild the whole block while I have it out...
Dahendo, Thanks for the update. I also have a S185 so naturally am curious. Hope your new seals solve the issue. To find the leak did you have to operate the lift arms with the cab tilted up? If so how did you get the hydraulics to function with cab up? Is it the same as cab down ( lap bar down, parking brake off, hit button on left panel).
Yes, I found it with the cab up, definitely not a safe way to do it. Lift arm to max, shut off machine so arms stop drifting, put in the loader arm lock, lift cab, reach in there and start it, lower lap belt and press the green button. Then you can stare down at the block while reaching up and lifting the loader arm. If I had to find it again, I would pack around the block with paper towel then function everything to its maximum range, pull the cab and see where is wet.
Well i finally managed to get the hydraulic control block out, what a pain in the ass. Checked all the seals and the only thing I found wrong was a little knick in the spool seal for the tilt spool(picture attached) so I replaced that. Put it back together and the loader arm still drifts. I would move on to the cylinders but if you shut the machine off, or lock out the hydraulics it stops. I'm out of ideas, any help fellas?
Dahendo, Sorry to here the problem still exists.Thought for sure you had it figured out when you got the control block to leak. Hopefully one of these guys with a lot of experience will chime in and point you in the right direction.
I am thinking either a check valve or a relief valve must be sticking slightly open for you (probably the check valve), once you deactivate the hydraulics the other side of the lift function locks out and won't let the fluid move any more stopping the movement. But if you had the valve out and went through all that, it might be something different.
Have you checked the manual lowering device (not sure that it what it is called). On my S250, it is the red knob on your right by the throttle. Not sure exactly how it works, never used it, but I know that is what it is for. Maybe it's leaking through there?
I thought maybe that as well but when pulling the valve block, I had the loader arm up (safety support in place) and the hydraulics held until I unhooked the hydraulic line to the manual lowering valve, which bled the arm down. So that tells me it was holding.
I'm leaning that way, seals appear fine but maybe the spring is shot or something. Will pull the block again when I have time and update. Thanks for the suggestions.
Sorry that last post was supposed to be a reply to 05sprcrw
Well I was able to pull the load check without pulling the block so that's a big plus! However I changed all the seals and springs, inspected the sealing faces for scratches or knicks, everything looked great but the problem persists. I had intended to swap the lift load check with the tilt to test it but they are different sizes so that won't work. I may have to load this thing up and take it to a dealer, unfortunately the closest one with a service tech is a 3hr drive.
That is a bummer, I have been chasing something in my aux circuit that is similar to what your facing. I am about at the point of having to take it in as well, have a couple last things to check but everything in the valve looks good. I must be missing something though. If you do square it away please update this with what they find.
It's headed to the shop today. The tech didn't sound very knowledgeable, I'm not all that hopeful he'll be able to repair it. Will keep the thread updated either way!
Hopefully they will square it away quick for you and at least find the problem.
Did the dealer get it squared away for you?
They haven't had a chance to take a look at it yet. only been there 4 days... The Bobcat dealer in town is an equipment rental place that also sells bobcats so I'm not at the top of their priority list.
Well the dealer says the control valve is screwed. Apparently they found scoring in the lift spool bore. Either that or they also can't figure it out and are taking the replace everything route. They can't locate a new control valve, I've found a used manual controls valve (SN; 6818039) but I need a ACS valve (SN; 7101354) From what I can see in the pictures, it appears to be the same block with some different fittings and spool ends. Does anyone know if it is the same block and if the spools are the same so I could part out the two of them and make 1 that works for me? Pretty sure the previous owner knew what was going on and I'm a sucker!
I am not familiar with your machine at all. Are your spools activated mechanically or with solenoids?
The machine I have is solinoid controls, the block I've found is mechanically controlled. From looking at them both, they appear to be the same block and I think I might be able to swap out all the fittings to make it work.
Being electric/hydraulic, and the fact that the drift stops when you turn the machine off, I would think you have an electrical problem, rather than an internal leak. I’d swap the wiring on your lift spool solenoid and see if the loader slowly raises instead of drop. Maybe you have a wiring harness wore through somewhere. Again, I know nothing of your machine. Never even been around a skid steer.
Just a guess but it sounds like the float detente on the back of the spool valve may not be centering the spool. If the balls or spring in there are messed up it could be causing the problem you are having. Did you check it out when you had the block out?
You can always have the dealer show you the damage
Well I got the call from the dealer that it's finally done. Over a month, mostly waiting on parts. They changed the valve block and re-used all the components they could. They say after that it developed a new issue where they could only get 6 inches or so of travel on lift and tilt. Replaced PN# 6685157 and everything is fine. All I can find is that it's a valve but doesn't specify which one. I didn't get a chance to look at the control valve before they sent it in for core refund but I am suspicious that it was useable and 6685157 was the failure. Dealer insists differently though. Thanks for your help, hopefully this thread will point someone in the right direction some day.
I found this reference for PN# 6685157. Looks like it is a relief or check valve to me. It is part 44 circled in blue. Hope the picture comes through okay.