Hi, first time post. I have a 2005 Bobcat S185. I have a crank, but “no start”. There is A LOT of black smoke at crank in the tail pipe, and soot when you run your finger in ehaust pipe. Things i have have done: verified my fuel shut off solonoid is good. Fuel is primed (primer bulb pumps up). It has intermittently started with no rhyme or reason, but mostly cranks with a “no start”. Any direction to go is appreciated. Thank you.
I think that would still have the Kubota engine in it. If it does, are the glow plug all working? If you loosen one of the lines to the injectors, will it squirt fuel while it is cranking? When it does start does it fire right up or does it take it alittle to get going?
Have you tried using a jump pack? What happens if you use a bit of WD-40 in the air box? When was the last service? How are the air filters? When it does run, how’s the smoke after it’s warmed up? How many hours on the machine? How long has this been going on?
Is it cranking fast enough, as some on the site found out their machine did not crank fast enough. As HarleyHappy said try some WD40 into the intake to see if it fires all of a sudden. Did you have the block heater plugged in and glow plugs working properly. When were the valves adjusted on the engine. If you loosen all the fuel nuts at injectors about 1-1/2 turn is there a lot of fuel coming out when cranking. I mean a sqirt every time and not a drop. Is there any codes on the machine. What Mr Wrench posted is good to find out. Have you checked all the fuses. Simon C
My Kubota powered skid steer is indirect injected so needs glow plugs even in the summer for first start. When it's colder out putting it at full throttle helps when trying to start it. As soon as it's running I put it back to a high idle about 1000 RPM. If the aux. hydraulics were accidently turned on it will crank slower and not start but have black smoke. I had 1 glow plug burnt out and that made me have to leave the glow plugs on quite a bit longer. Make sure it's spinning as fast as possible and has lots of fuel. If it has a lot of soot you may need to work it harder. Might want to put some fuel conditioner/injector cleaner in the fuel tank. I always run full throttle. It's easier on the hydrostat and gives faster response to the controls.
Hi, I am not sure if my response last week came through. Thank you for your input. My glow plugs are bad (i just tested them) but i do keep the block heater plugged in. When cracking the injectors i dont get any spray from them, hardly a dribble. I hooked up an auxilary pump tonight and checked, and i have fuel to the injector pump, but still nothing at the injectors
When it does start, it fires up right away
I have used a jump pack, spins over fast. WD 40 will bog the engine a bit, but not fire and still smokes black a LOT out of the tail pipe. I noticed my filters are dirty, but they have been changed within 70 or so hours ago. When running last summer I did notice a little black smoke and could smell it in the cab (never used to). Machine has 6200 hours. This no start happened last November and have been trying to figure it out since. Thanks for your input
I have tried the WD-40. Once i realized all my glow plugs were bad, i did use a small shot of starting fluid and still had a no fire. When i cracked each fuel injector i got either a small drop or nothing at all. I even hooked up an external electric pump, verified flow into the injector pump but still nothing out to the injectors. No codes on the machine, and i have checked and re checked fuses for the fuel inside the panel located inside cab
It is a Kubota diesel
Thank you for your response and input. I will put some conditioner in the fuel plus try the full throttle on cranking, i usually crank at part throttle
Typically speaking, black smoke from a diesel engine indicates a rich fuel/air ratio mixture, more fuel than available air to burn that charge of fuel. Low compression or faulty injectors cause white smoke unburned fuel, the smoke will burn your eyes and nose. But black smoke, that typically indicates fuel is being burned, i.e. good compression, but just not enough air for full burn. You see this with the diesel truck jockeys where they have tweaked the injection system to the max and they roll coal when they mash the gas, but that's a rich mixture on purpose in that case. Check you're air intake system, air filter, piping in and out of turbo if it has one, especially the pipe/hose that comes out of the turbo and feeds air into the intake. If you have a failure there you're going to lose intake air and cause this problem. If all parts of the intake system check OK, then problem has to be with injection.
Thank you for your input. My inner air filter is unusually dirty (never has been before). Inwill check the whole intake, i did see a mouse inside the cab, i wonder if a mouse decided to mess inside my air system. I will check that. Thank you
Yes, it does have a turbo
That would be a good idea to check the intake and make sure it is clear. If the air filter is questionable just take it out and try it without it. I have seen were the engine will pull in alot of exhaust smoke and it is fine enough that it plugs the filter but is not real obvious. The fuel injection system seems questionable. Make sure the shutoff is working. You can just take it out and that will put it in the on position.
Thank you for both insights. I will try both of your suggestions and report back. Thank you.
I have seen Bobcat machines with exhaust leak inside the engine compartment, maybe a blown out muffler, and that smoke goes right back into the air filter clogging the filter with black smoke carbon, which just produces more black smoke from the exhaust. Continuously goes downhill from there.
Hmmmm, i have noticed the machine acquired a small exhaust leak on the exhaust manifild at the end where the intake is.
I have 2 Milwaukee heat guns that I shoot into the air intake at the same time as well as a very good dose of WD40. Some engines will not run without glow plugs. For your info an inner air filter is pure white or blue usually with zero signs of dirt on it. If it doesnt fire like that and the fuel solenoid is working, if no fuel is at injectors then pump is suspicious. Simon C
I like the heat gun idea. I will try this and see what happens. The guys on this forum and yourself are offering great help. I look forward to trying out and checking into all the tips and direction
Hi, I checked on the air intake system tonight. All the piping is clear with no obstructions, checked the turbo wheel and it spins freely. The pipe going in and out of the turbo is good. I cracked the injector fuel lines in (one by one) and I did get some fuel come out while cranking (pulsing small spurts). No fire, I threw some heat into the intake manifold with a heat gun, used a little wd-40 and still no start. I will replace the glow plugs, any suggestions other than a dealer to buy quality glow plugs and other parts? You mentioned possibly the injection pump? Can those be tested without taking it to a shop? Thanks for all the help.
Hi, I checked on the air intake system tonight. All the piping is clear with no obstructions, checked the turbo wheel and it spins freely. The pipe going in and out of the turbo is good. I cracked the injector fuel lines in (one by one) and I did get some fuel come out while cranking (pulsing small spurts). I pulled the fuel shutoff solonoid and that didnt make a difference when trying to start it. No fire, I threw some heat into the intake manifold with a heat gun, used a little wd-40 and still no start. I will replace the glow plugs, any suggestions other than a dealer to buy quality glow plugs and other parts? You mentioned possibly the injection pump? Can those be tested without taking it to a shop? Thanks for all the help.
Hi, I did pull the fuel shut off solonoid, and cranked engine with no luck. I did verify through this process the solonoid is working as it should.
If the fuel rack is set into medium fuel, with the injector lines loosened 1-1/2 turns the fuel will gush out of those injectors. Maybe post a picture of your injection pump for more comments. Maybe have someone remove tank cap and put a rag ballover the opening with a blow gun slipped under the rag while putting 1-2 psi of air into the fuel tank while someone else cranks it over to bleed out the fuel system. If you put too much air you will have a bath of diesel if you let go of rag ball too fast. Be fore warned. Also might need to try sucking your fuel from a remote fuel tank to the first filter. If you pressurize the fuel tank and hold pressure for 3 minutes if anything is sucking in air it will leak fuel with pressure on it. Simon C
Thank you. I will give this a try
On the Kubota engines I have worked on, at the lines, you just see fuel spurting out in small pulses. They usually sip fuel when running, so they don’t push out as much fuel as you would think. Last one, I was concerned about the IP and it was literally just shooting up about an 1 1/2”’s right from the pump, with the lines off. Pump was fine, still running. From what you described, with the fuel and everything else, I don’t think you have a pump problem. If you want, you can pull an injector out and disconnect a line from the rail, turn it so it’s visible and hook the injector up to the line and check the spray. I have done this and checked all injectors before. Right now, I would be checking compression, while you have the glow plugs out. Everything done so far, that motor should have at least kicked off with heat and some spray. You can take the side plate off, where your throttle linkage connects to and check your rack travel, when turning over.
Hi, I will have to put off working on the machine until this weekend. Here in Minnesota we have bad weather coming in so I need to pay attention to that. I will be checking compression (hopefully this weekend) and re looking at the injectors also. I was going to inspect my crank sensor (just to make sure it is clean), but that broke upon removing it, so I need to buy a new one also before I proceed.
Bad weather is coming into Minnesota so I will probably get back to my machine this weekend, plus while attempting to remove my crank sensor to see if it was dirty, it broke in the hole it was screwed into. I will need to replace that as well. At least I was able to "pick" the broken pieces out of the hole.
Hi, its been a while, but I want to share with everyone my machine is fixed! I did replace all 4 glow plugs and the speed sensor (I broke) but those items didnt change a thing. I hired a mobile mechanic to check out the machine. He had it running in 1.5 hours. The repair was nothing I would have thought to be the cause. My right side joystick stick was the problem. It was out if adjustment (always was a bit sloppy). The joystick was setting far enough backwards that when cranking the engine it caused the hydraulics to start pressurizing and keeping the motor from cranking fast enough to fire. He adjusted the joysticks and BAM! Fired right up. Thank you to everyone who invested time and expertise in helping me work on my machine!
Trick for next time is to put the machine on stands and you would of seen the tires moving immediately when cranking telling you something is wrong with the joystick . Simon C
I will keep that in mind. I learned a lot working on this and all the information on the forum
Hi, its been a while, but I want to share with everyone my machine is fixed! I did replace all 4 glow plugs and the speed sensor (I broke) but those items didnt change a thing. I hired a mobile mechanic to check out the machine. He had it running in 1.5 hours. The repair was nothing I would have thought to be the cause. My right side joystick stick was the problem. It was out if adjustment (always was a bit sloppy). The joystick was setting far enough backwards that when cranking the engine it caused the hydraulics to start pressurizing and keeping the motor from cranking fast enough to fire. He adjusted the joysticks and BAM! Fired right up. Thank you to everyone who invested time and expertise in helping me work on my machine!
Hi, its been a while, but I want to share with everyone my machine is fixed! I did replace all 4 glow plugs and the speed sensor (I broke) but those items didnt change a thing. I hired a mobile mechanic to check out the machine. He had it running in 1.5 hours. The repair was nothing I would have thought to be the cause. My right side joystick stick was the problem. It was out if adjustment (always was a bit sloppy). The joystick was setting far enough backwards that when cranking the engine it caused the hydraulics to start pressurizing and keeping the motor from cranking fast enough to fire. He adjusted the joysticks and BAM! Fired right up. Thank you to everyone who invested time and expertise in helping me work on my machine!
Hi, its been a while, but I want to share with everyone my machine is fixed! I did replace all 4 glow plugs and the speed sensor (I broke) but those items didnt change a thing. I hired a mobile mechanic to check out the machine. He had it running in 1.5 hours. The repair was nothing I would have thought to be the cause. My right side joystick stick was the problem. It was out if adjustment (always was a bit sloppy). The joystick was setting far enough backwards that when cranking the engine it caused the hydraulics to start pressurizing and keeping the motor from cranking fast enough to fire. He adjusted the joysticks and BAM! Fired right up. Thank you to everyone who invested time and expertise in helping me work on my machine!
Hi, its been a while, but I want to share with everyone my machine is fixed! I did replace all 4 glow plugs and the speed sensor (I broke) but those items didnt change a thing. I hired a mobile mechanic to check out the machine. He had it running in 1.5 hours. The repair was nothing I would have thought to be the cause. My right side joystick stick was the problem. It was out if adjustment (always was a bit sloppy). The joystick was setting far enough backwards that when cranking the engine it caused the hydraulics to start pressurizing and keeping the motor from cranking fast enough to fire. He adjusted the joysticks and BAM! Fired right up. Thank you to everyone who invested time and expertise in helping me work on my machine!
Hi, its been a while, but I want to share with everyone my machine is fixed! I did replace all 4 glow plugs and the speed sensor (I broke) but those items didnt change a thing. I hired a mobile mechanic to check out the machine. He had it running in 1.5 hours. The repair was nothing I would have thought to be the cause. My right side joystick stick was the problem. It was out if adjustment (always was a bit sloppy). The joystick was setting far enough backwards that when cranking the engine it caused the hydraulics to start pressurizing and keeping the motor from cranking fast enough to fire. He adjusted the joysticks and BAM! Fired right up. Thank you to everyone who invested time and expertise in helping me work on my machine!
That's the same thing that happens when the aux. hydraulics are accidently engaged. Glad you got it figured out.