Hello, First off I want to introduce myself as this is my first post, and say thanks for the info I have gathered so far. I have browsed the forum and finally decided to join and see if you guys could help me some more. I am a first time equipment owner, and recently purchased a 2003 Bobcat T-250. Background: Purchased T250 with 1570 hours. Machine was on its second owner and has been mainly used on a farm. The day I went to look at it, it started acting up...or thats the story I received anyways. Previous owner swore he had used it the day before with zero issues. He lowered price and I took a gamble since they seemed like honest people....which is what has lead me here. When purchasing, I also discovered the deluxe display was damaged and you could not read anything on it..so I didn't know it had low hydraulic pressure. The bucket would lift up, but wouldn't want to go back down.....and the bucket would tilt back, but not want to tilt back forward. When purchased, the machine would fire up and run for around a minute before you get the low charge pressure codes(05-14 and 05-15). The charge pressure(according to the deluxe display that I replaced) starts out around 350-400 and slowly drops down to the shut off pressure of 150(sometimes read as low as 50 while shutting down). I had read online that a common issue is the hydraulic pressure sender, so I replaced it. The new sender still gives me the same pressure. Correct pressure according to the manual is 410-470 At this same time I also replaced the hydraulic filter(was relatively clean..no metal chunks or flakes but there are some sparkles in the fluid), and the Case Drain Filter. The case drain filter appeared to have never been removed before and was the original one. It had metal flakes in it,and a decent amount of them. The flakes were silver and I verified that there was no brass looking shavings. A key thing to mention here is that the metal case drain filter appeared to have sucked in a bit, and the end of it had come apart. There was a chunk about the size of a pencil eraser missing. Next, I moved on to the pressure relief valve. When I pulled it out I found pieces of the case drain filter stuck between the Poppet and the seat. The poppet was also stuck in place on the shaft and would not move freely. I cleaned it up, inspected the spring, and lightly sanded the shaft so the poppet would move smoothly. There were 7 shims under the spring and I made sure to install all of them. I filled the hydraulic fluid back up to replace the fluid I lost. When I fired it back up, the pressure seemed to be holding a bit better initially but would still drop down to 150(no longer down to 50). I fired it back up to see if maybe there was just air in the lines, and when I attempted to move the bobcat(after releasing the brake), the pressure dropped down to around 18PSI and now will not go any higher. So now I am stuck. While I am hoping its not my pump, it is starting to look like a likely culprit. Are there any other valves that could simply be stuck open? Any inline screens or filters that could be clogged? Any help is greatly appreciated. -Jason
if you found metal and brass in the filters, you likely have 2 problems. charge pump and drive motors. you can furtehr test by capping off the drive motors at the pumps, and recheck the charge pressure. if it stays up, the problem is in the drive motors. your lift/tilt problem is a seperate issue. most likely debris in one of the aux solenoids, and it's stuck open. :drinkup
I kept all of the metal, and it is all silver...not brass. I was told to look for any brass chunks. The only brass looking debris has been the pieces of the case drain filter. Thank you for your input. I will have to see where I can find some caps locally. How would I go about finding out what size caps they are?
Also, I'm assuming the motor has to come out to remove the main pump? I have been working on getting Bobcat out here..but its going to cost a pretty penny just to have them look at it. At this point I may just bite the bullet and let them diagnose what all is actually wrong.
Not just yet, you already have Bobcat here in a way, crewchief works for a Bobcat dealer. You need to do what he said and cap off the drive motor lines at the pump and check your pressure. I'm guessing #12 JIC plugs/caps, crewchief could confirm that.
Will do. I will try to find some plugs/caps this week if he is able to confirm it. I have already noticed I need some anyways..have had to replace a decent amount of fluid just trying random things.
i'm pretty sure they are -12. if you found chunks of a damaged case drain filter, you may have some serious problems. or the drive motors may have been replace and nobody bothered with the case drain..... lets see what happens to your charge pressure with the motors capped off, before i speculate on anything else... :drinkup
That was the case drain filter. I found about half of the missing piece. The sludge around the base is the junk that was in it. I spread it out after the picture and it was all fine silver metal shavings. I'm pretty sure no major work has been done to this machine. This is a weekend project, so I will locate some caps/plugs this week and play around next weekend
If I was wanting to a good assortment of caps/plugs for working on this machine...what would you guys say would be good sizes to get?
-6 -8 -12 will cover most of what you need. hyd supply stores usually have an assortment already packaged in a nice plastic flip top box. :drinkup
Thank you. If it is worth noting, the day I got it home I was able to drive it around for about 10 minutes at higher RPM before it would shut down. To me it almost seem like something, somewhere is blocked and restricting flow. However I know I am still being optimistic.
Last night I decided to swap the pressure sender back out. I noticed that no fluid came out of the open fitting this time. The first time I swapped it out, fluid came out at a steady rate. The sender is located just outside of the control block on mine. What I'm wondering now is if maybe there is a blockage in that line giving me inaccurate readings. I already know there has to be a blockage in that control block since my tilt and lift functions weren't working right. Old sender still showed low pressure by the way.
you're just fooling yourself think a "clogged" line is giving you inaccurate readings. since you already found debris in the filters, and a damaged case drain, you have a (at the very least) a failed charge pump. the charge pump and hyd pump are sold as an assembly, typically if the charge pump takes a dump, the hyd pump is damaged as well. :drinkup
While I try to stay optimistic, I have already located a cherry picker to pull the motor, and a couple places to rebuild the pump near st.louis. I just like to rule out other possibilities first. At this point I will just be happy if the damage is isolated to the main pump and not the drive motors.
It's a bummer that I got hosed on this thing. If it's just the pump, I will still be "ok"...anything more than that and I'm hosed. At least I get to learn how to work on skidsteers...have worked on every thing else I own. May as well learn this thing too.
Removed about a half ounce of fine metal from oil tank today with a magnet. Some flakes of brass were in it. Have a cherry picker and a rebuilder for then main pump. Keeping my fingers crossed that I can get by with just replacing main pump. Ordered a plug/cap kit online so I can block off the drive motor lines and test pressure before I do all the work.
Any good tips on removing tracks from a non running machine? Tensioners are already loose and grease is out. Book says to just use pry bars, but I'm questioning if they ever actually did it with just pry bars. Machine is in a bad spot where I can't get any sort of comealong hooked to the front of the track to pull slack forward.
Also, I can't run the tracks forward to put pipes in to allow the track to slide over idler, as I have seen in some how-to's. Charge pressure won't go above 30 psi at this point. Nowhere near enough to release brake. Can I remove rear sprocket to get a little more slack?
make sure the tensioner is all the way back. it will hit the end of one of the bolts holding the (front) inspection cover on. another hint is to raise the machine only high enough for the tracks to clear the bottom rollers., otherwise you are fighting the weight of the track. the sprockets can be removed, but thats usually a chore in itself if they are rusted. there should be some tapped holes in the face of the sprocket to run some long bolts into to use as jack screws. :drinkup
I'm just curious, why are we removing tracks from a non-operating T250 that's in a bad spot? There has to be a good reason for this. :yup
Thanks crewchief. The machine is jacked up a bit too high and I am fighting the weight of the tracks. I will lower it down a bit. The sprockets don't look rusted at all, and as soon as I bought the machine I coated all nuts,bolts on the tracks with fluid film...i think with an impact the nuts will come off...good tip on the jack bolts. I will keep that as a last resort. Willie- Hydrostatic unit is out. Have to remove the engine to pull the pump...book shows to pull the tracks in order to remove access panels and remove front engine/pump mounts. The unit is in my garage, just in a location where I can't get any useful tools in place, such as a comealong or another skidsteer to help remove the tracks. Removing the tracks was the last thing on my mind when I pulled the bobcat into the garage. Tearing the whole thing apart was the last thing on my mind really.
See, I knew there had to be a good reason.
I wish there wasn't a good reason to pull the tracks at this point...besides to replace them from using the machine so much.
Crewchief I am having some very similar problems with an S250 that i am working on. When the machine came in it was because it needed the fuel tank replaced. when i hopped in the machine to pull it in the shop the charge pressure light was on and it wouldn't operate the bucket. I called owner and he told me you had to rev it way up and then the light would go out and it would operate. He had unhooked the shut off solenoid where im assuming in this case it would of turned the machine off. The owner knew it had this low charge pressure problem and told me to look into that also. I pulled the engine replaced the fuel tank and put it all back together with the same issue when i got done. I hooked a gauge up to it and was only getting around 200lbs of charge pressure when it was reved up. My bucket wont operate also and the bucket lock light is flashing a code that it is fault to ground. I have replaced that solenoid with the same outcome with the new solenoid. when i tested the solenoid it ohmed out where to me i would think that it was a bad solenoid. Anyways back to the charge pressure issue. I removed the charge pump and took it apart and figured out it was worn out. So i put a new charge pump on it and when first fired up it didn't have any pressure and finally picked up and only gets around 200lbs max. You mentioned capping off the 4 lines coming out of the Hydra stat and then checking the pressure. What does this do or tell me? Any help would be greatly appreciated. if you want message me and give me your phone number and i can call you to discuss this.
pull the charge relief, sounds like something is stuck under the seat of the valve. capping off the drive hoses will isolate the pumps from the motors, eliminating the drive motors from the system. :drinkup
Well about an hour before you replied I found in the book where it showed the charge pressure relief valve. Took it out and the face is very checkered up and scratched. Ordered a new one. Fingers crossed. When the machine has proper pressure does that send voltage to the bics valve on the hyd valve body?
no it doesnt. charge pump is seperate from the main hyd pump, but they share the same oil supply. off the top of my head, i'm thinking maybe you have some debris in the bics stem and it's not moving when the couil is energized..... :drinkup