Hey all! I have been scanning this site for years now and finally decided to register. Awesome site! Here is my issue that I hope you guys can help me out with! I have a 2005 t190 with 1500 hrs on it. I recently bought it not knowing the previous owner didn't do any of the maintance. As soon as I bought it I went to dealer and bought all the stuff to do a full maintance. While doing the work I found the case drain on the right side of machine lightly dirty with some silver metal In it. The left side was heavily filled with silver metal chunks an shavings. I changed them both drained the hydraulic fluid did the other maintance and used the machine for one job! During the job the left side started squealing pretty bad! I stopped using the machine and took my final drives off to take them to be rebuilt. Well the place I took them to took them apart to inspect them and found that the final drives themselves were not damaged my problem was the brakes. The we're hanging up and causing problems, the worse being the actual brake housing itself where the gear is was grooved pretty bad. The problem is that the availability on that housing since mine is the 5 port is hard to come by! Long story short my only option was to buy 2 new drives! ($6700 ouch!) my concern now is what was causing the brakes to hang up? I am being told all kinds of things such as I need a new charge pump to the brake seals in the drive were bad which was what caused it. I just don't want to install these new drives and damage the new ones! Any suggestions on what I can do to test the other components or what else to check before I run the machine. Thanks all imput will be helpful!
Note that the machine was working fine, all functions working when the squealing started. I stopped running the machine then and took it apart with everything still working! Is it correct that if I had a charge pump issue that my other hydraulics such as lift and tilt would be affected? Which they were not.
Anyone?
If you were having charge pump pressure issues you would have gotten a code long before mechanical damage to the Motors. I had a customer with a motor going bad and he would get a code say charge pressure low. The. While I was running tests I could get charge pressure extremely low. Were you getting any codes? My guess is the previous owner knew the machine had issues and decided to sell it instead of fixing it. Surprised it failed with only 1500 hrs. Usually see 2500-3000 before neglect issues usually rear their ugly head. JJ.
A lot of this depends on the machine serial number to get accurate information. But I agree with Hardline, regardless of arrangement, if you had a low charge pressure problem causing brakes to not release then you should have got a code. Failed brake piston seals could cause this, and a reputable shop should be able to show you evidence of failed seals.
Thanks a lot for you guys responses! I did not have any codes. My machine is still down now while I am waiting for the final drives to arrive, so pulled my case drains again today to see what they looked like for the ten hours of use. The right one was fine but the left one had metal in it some appearing to look goldish which really bothers me. Remember my machine was working fine no problems with hydraulics just a squealing sound coming from my left final drive and more noisier when going in reverse. I have read that gold metal is normally a sign of problems in the charge pump or other hydrostatic components, but my hydraulics where working fine with know issues, please tell me that this goldish metal can be from the brake issue I was having. Why would only one case drain have the metal in it if I did in fact have a charge pump problem?Also about 5 gallons of hydro fluid has leaked out of the lines where I removed the final drives fluid looks real clean ran a magnet through it and no metal shavings at all. To me It makes sense that the case drain was dirty from the side that was making the squealing but why the goldish color? When the final drive was disassembled The metal inside the final drive appeared silver. One more question what would be y'all's plan if y'all were in my shoes, would you bolt the new drives on fill with new hydro fluid and run the machine or check anything else? If so what. And how? Please give me some more advice and feedback I really appreciate it! I am sorry I wrote so much just trying to give yall as much info as possible.
several things could cause a brake failure bad or plugged brake coil/stem when the case drain filter gets plugged, case drain pressure builds up in the motor housing, and does 2 things, keeps the brake disengaged when the engine is running, and can blow the brakes seals out, no brake pressure, and the brakes start dragging. :drinkup
You would have charge pump codes long before you would get pump failure and metal down stream in the system. Possible machine has had a failure in the past and this is residual material left. Kinda odd with these problems at only 1500 her though. I would install the motors and keep a close eye on the case drains for a while. Also be certain due to the fact you do not have the lines capped off that everything is super clean when you go back together. ANY debris in the lines and or fittings will be circulated right though your new motors and your pumps. Had a customer decide to try and replace his own drive hose once cause he had watched me do it and it looked easy. The part he failed to take notice of was putting the plug in the end of the hose before pushing it through all the crap in the belly of the machine. He filled the hose with debris and destroyed motors and pumps on start up.
Do you have any idea where the goldish colored metal in the case drain is if I'm not having an issue with my hydraulics or no codes! And would you say I am safe to install my new drive motors and carry on running my machine? Please read my last long post to also get a feel for what is going on,and info
Goldish metal is brass from a port plate or rotating group of a pump or motor. If you haven't disassembled and inspected the complete left drive circuit do it now.
When you say the complete left drive circuit, what all are you referring to? The complete left final drive itself?
Pump lines and motor will all be contaminated. Final drive should be OK. Any time you have a failure in a hydrostatic system you need to clean everything. It sounds to me you haven't actually found the real failure yet.
Here are pics of the inside of my drives the brake housing damage which shows the grooves left around the gear from the brake disc's chewing up.. The other two pics are of the brass ring on the shaft from each drive one is ok and the other is ground down on the inside which explains the brass colored metal in the case drain. My question is what causes this to happen? Please anybody help me out with this. I want to put my new motors on and run my machine knowing my problems are fixed and no worries of this happening again. Thanks everyone!!!!
As Mobiltech said it would be a good idea to pull hoses and pumps for inspection cleaning and reseal. If there is any trash in there it will be sent trough your system again including your new drive motors. JJ
You have pictures of the final drive there. Has the drive motor been inspected yet or just the final drive.
Yes the final drives have been disassembled and inspected they are in great shape with no damage at all.
So how does the motor look. I don't see it in your pictures.
The drive motor itself is fine just the damage shown is it. I have all ready put the rest of the drive back together. The problem is only with the brakes. The reason I am buying new drives altogether is the brake housings themselves are really hard to find. The five port drive that I have has been discontinued. I am just wanting help with what causes the brakes to do this. I am hoping it is the brake seals in the drives that were bad causing the brakes to not fully release. But I'm not 100% convinced. Please help me out anyone before I put the new drive motors on and possibly damage them. Just want to know if something else is what was causing the brakes to not fully release
:Banghead:bash
I am thinking this is what happened. Anyway to know for sure?
the most common thing that happens is a drive motor failure, and plugged case drain filter(s). the plugged case drains build up pressure in the drive motor, causing brake problems, possibly blowing the brake spring plate off the back of the motor and external leaks at the sprocket side of the motor. i'd be willing to bet there was a previous failure, and somebody half-assed the repair and dumped the machine. make sure you remove the case drain filter(s) and inspect for metal contamination, also change the hyd oil and filter. in extreme contamination failures, it's not a bad idea to replace the hyd cooler as well :drinkup
I did a full service on the machine then right after the left side started squealing real bad I ran the machine for approx. 8 hrs and then removed the finals to have them checked. That is when the brakes where discovered in this shape. Since then I checked the case drains again. The right side was somewhat clean but the left. Side was full of metal again. Just curious why did it not squeak before I did the initial service and then it started squeaking immediately following. FYI: the service I did was both case drains, hydro filter, fuel filter, oil change, air filters, changed the oil In the front of the drive motors,and pumped out the hydro fluid from the tank under the cab and refilled with the hydro fluid from bobcat. Also note that the case drain on the left side which is the one that is harder to get to had never been previously changed and the oil in the drive motors had never been changed! no contamination got past the case drains that I am aware of.
Today I took off all my lines going to the drive motors and cleaned them real good and then put them back on, I took my recently changed hydraulic filter off and it did have some of the brass colored metal in it. I am going to put a new one on in the morning. I know for sure that the brass shavings were coming from the brass brake bushing that I showed in the pics so that was A big relief! I plan on putting all new fluid and my drive motors on tomorrow, please let me know if anyone has anything else I should do before doing so and running my machine.