I finally got sick of it today, and cut the wires to the switch to splice them together, that didn't work, so i busted the switch trying to get it out, only to find out its some kind of magnetic switch which I guess is I couldn't bypass it with the wires. Raised the cab, found the parking brake and successfully unlocked it by giving it 12volts. Found the two solenoids that locked the pedals(right where the pushrods go into the valve block, and over rode that the same way. They seem to take alot of juice, so not sure its suppose to be 12volts. anyways, that unlocked the pedals but there is apparently one more valve somewhere because the loader is not operating. Its trying to, can hear it straining, but its hitting another valve. By this time i was really pissed off and wanted to bury an engineer next to a lawyer, so i just scooped it up with the excavator and dumped it aside. Anybody know where the other valve is? And is there a way to defeat it, if i hadn't destroyed the switch? I guess take it off and tape it together.
I feel sorry for the guy that has to fix all the wiring after they power wash your guts off this machine.
Are you the owner of this machine ? Are you the only one that runs it ?
With all due respect, legal liability implications compels me to not tell you how to defeat the safety bar switch and other various safety devices of your machine.
With all due respect, everytime one of us chooses to bow down or bend over, it gives the lawyer the audacity to go an inch further in. I prefer(and have a lot more respect for) this kind of disclaimer: If you do this, you will most likely be injured or killed. If you sue me I will simply kill you, your family and anyone around you that i think might try to revenge your death. I don't have time for lawsuits....here is the answer: This is a personal machine, nobody else operates it. Besides, seriously? You call that a safety feature? Thanks for the help.
No, I'm being serious douglasco, I've worked on Bobcats and other machines for years, these safety devices are there to protect you from the machine having a mind of its own. It's no slander to you or your capabilities. It's just the fact the machine has no brain. And when you disable these devices you're taking away what little brain it has. I feel you're frustration with the machine being a PITA, but you really need to get it fixed proper. Again, no disrespect to you, I'm just imploring you to watch out for you.
Thanks for the reply. So i have another problem. I have another t300 that is in great condition. When I put the bar down and enable the controls, the machine will drive, and the loader trys to operate but can't. I've been trying to diagnose the problem, and see that the two solenoids on the front of the valve block for the work functions are good. I'm guessing there is another solenoid somewhere that is shorted out. Can you tell me where that might be so i can properly fix it?
I think we have a pretty strong "safety culture" here at HEF, as evidenced by the replies so far, and it really goes beyond lawyers and legal liability. I wouldn't be surprised if nobody seems to be able to come up with the answer you're looking for now... :beatsme
Sheep culture is more like it. But I understand thats just human nature. An idiot hurts himself, is selfish or prideful enough to hire a lawyer, sues the company, the company decides whether the bad PR/probablility/payout is enough to merit a design change or worst case, a recall. An engineer comes up with his best guess for the cheapest solution possible. The customer is convinced into upgrading to a new machine thru engineered obsolesce of the old one or just thru marketing gimmicks. Now he is stuck with more electronics and less machine. Safety engineering is maybe like what volvo started. American sheep safety is more of the instance that your seatbelt in your car is no good if your seat is reclined because you still get ejected or end up in a ball under the dash. But you won't see any 5point harnesses or even a big obnoxious warning sign about it because its bad for business. Speaking of which if this safety misnomer was such a science, and even HE operators need to be reminded to lock themselves in b4 the vehicle will function, don't you think those fancy automatic seatbelts in some cars that ride on the track when you shut the door would have been mandatory in all cars by now? But then again, I realize that sheep need a Shepard. Dead sheep aren't too useful to society..... Well thats not true, but they aren't pleasant for the other sheep to look at. If you know the solution, please pm me. For proof i'm more of a Shepard then a sheep see my other thread:
douglasco, your slamming of us being safety conscience and having a desire to cover our arse is getting a little over the top and tiresome. I've looked over your other posts and you seem to be a very intelligent and self driven person. But your completely missing the point on this safety issue. This is not about you. You are probably more than competent to work with a machine that has safety devices modified. But the part your not considering is this is "the internet". Once anyone posts an answer of how to disable safety devices on the internet, it's in writing, it's permanent, it's there for all the world to see. And like I said, this ain't about you, it's about some jerkwad dingdong that would read that post, perform the action, get injured, then do a Google search on ATCO. Next thing I know, I get served some legal papers. Again...it ain't about you. It's a big internet world. Therefore, I choose my words carefully. About your T300, there's a black solenoid in the mid of the main hyd control valve, set a little below center of valve body. That's the loader valve hyd lock out solenoid.
Well said ATCO.
I think ATCO missed an important part though. Think of all the old, experienced hands from years and years ago who got hurt by equipment that never had safety system installed at all, and cite some figures to convince me that machines aren't safer today. Safety systems don't exist just for the worst operator--they exist to protect the best operator on his worst day. There are lots of guys in the graveyard, and some permanently sidelined for lack of spare parts (our manufacturer really is awful about parts support from the factory), because they got complacent about safety and safety systems. Guys with tons of experinence can still get injured because they think they know better. A guy with little experience who starts out with that attitude already has two stikes against him...
Review of OSHA's Integrated Management Information System (IMIS) reveals that between 1997 and 2007, 100 accidents were recorded specifically involving skid-steer loaders. The deliberate bypassing of safety features (such as seatbelts and control interlock systems) was identified as the direct cause of 20% of these incidents, with all but one resulting in a fatality. Three cases are described below: Case 1: An employee was working alone, operating a skid-steer loader for "fine grading" or smoothing out dirt to provide the final contouring around a new home that was nearing completion. While operating the skid-steer loader, one of the bucket bolt pins, which connects the loader arm to the bucket, fell out. The employee dismounted the vehicle with the engine still running, manually lowered the lap bar safety device, and operated the hydraulic controls from outside the vehicle. The employee was attempting to realign the loader arm hole with the bucket hole and reinsert the bucket bolt pin. In the process, he was trapped between the bucket and the body of the skid-steer loader and was crushed. The employee was found in a position that allowed him to operate the controls from outside the vehicle with the bucket bolt pin and a large hammer nearby. Upon inspecting the skid-steer loaders on this job site, the following conditions were noted: The interlock control system was disabled on the unit involved in the accident. This system was intended to prevent the loader’s controls from operating unless the operator was in the proper operating position. The absence of the operator's weight should have deactivated an electronic switch under the seat that allows the loader controls to function when the lap bar is also in a lowered position. The system ensures that the engine stops when the operator leaves the seat of the skid-steer loader or attempts to lower the lap bar to operate the loader controls from outside of the skid-steer loader. Interlock control systems on other skid-steer loaders on site had also been disabled or were not functioning properly. This condition allowed the operator to activate the loader's controls with the seat bar in the raised position. Backup alarms did not work on some units. Seatbelts had been removed from the skid-steer loaders. The employer received a citation for a serious violation under the General Duty Clause of the Occupational Safety and Health Act (OSH Act) (Section 5(a)(1)). Case 2: An employee was ordered by his company to repair a leak in the hydraulic slave cylinder of a skid-steer loader. He drove the skid-steer loader into the warehouse and began the repair. He bypassed the safety bar by jamming it into the interlocks without being seated in the cab. He then started the skid-steer loader and raised the bucket over the cab. Upon exiting the cab, his foot inadvertently pressed the down pedal for the bucket. The bucket came down and trapped him between the lift and the cab. He then hit the left side lever, causing the skid-steer loader to move in reverse. It crashed into a parked forklift and he was killed. Upon investigation, the three causes of the accident were identified as: Employee's intentional bypassing of the safety features of the skid-steer loader to perform maintenance, Failure to use an approved lift arm support device, and Improper employee training on operating, servicing, or maintaining the skid-steer loader according to the manufacturer's instructions. The employer received a citation for a serious violation under the General Duty Clause of the OSH Act (Section 5(a)(1)). Case 3: An employee at a tractor implement dealership was cleaning debris from a wash bay using a skid-steer loader. This particular skid-steer loader was equipped with a manual seat bar as well as a pressure switch in the seat to detect the presence of an operator. The operator was able to leave the cab to wash the skid-steer loader bucket while it was still operational. The bucket was left sitting on its nose which prevented the loader arms from resting against the body of the vehicle as it was designed to do. This position made it difficult to enter and exit the cab. As the employee attempted to get back into the cab, he slipped and fell face-first into the cab seat. The loader arms dropped and caught him between the body of the skid-steer loader and the loader arms, and he was killed. The two major contributing factors to this accident were: Employee's intentional bypassing of the safety systems of the skid-steer loader, and Improper employee training on the safety features associated with the skid-steer loader. "On-the-job" training did not include a review of the operator's manual. The employer received a citation for a serious violation under the General Duty Clause of the OSH Act (Section 5(a)(1)). Conclusion Properly maintained and functioning seatbelts and control interlock systems are critical to the safe operation of skid-steer loaders. Field reports have shown injuries and fatalities can occur by operating skid-steer loaders with one or both of these safety systems bypassed, disabled, or improperly maintained.
Osha only knows of 10 skidsteer accidents per year.....hmmmm. Glad they are your authority. I'm not taking the bar off (sometimes I sit on it so i can have a better view ointhead) But I am making my own attachments, and using it for many other purposes. I bet if i really thought you guys weren't genetically :Banghead, i would sit here and write up at least 50 scenarios, where the stupid switch is more dangerous. Ever heard of a seatbelt killing someone, it happens alot. Not saying that its probable. But believe it or not, there are some instances when its smart NOT to wear your seatbelt.
>>>
Over riding safty systems is just DUMB. This coming from someone with 35yrs in the equipment business who has seen the results of some jackleg disabling safety equipment. Buy yourself a set of service manuals with wiring schematics and they will provide all the info you need to override anything you heart desires and no one here will be sued by your family over you death. Some guys just have to learn the hard way.
wow, i have seen some goofy posters, but you, douglasco, take the cake.
I've personally had the displeasure of inspecting machines that have killed their operators. Every single time,a safety feature had been bypassed.The worst one was an owner operator of 32 years,who one day slipped on the way out of his machine. The mini excavator kept spinning around until his carcass was eventually torn in half and enough weight fell away from the left pilot lever. Do your family a favor and have a pro fix your damn machine.
Well, with your attitude and self proclaimed lack of equipment experience, you are in the running for a top "10" spot this year...:cool2
You guys should google "lathe accidents". Sometimes common safety sense just comes with the job.
After reading this posting and looking at pics you have posted of your equipment in action you are no one to be preaching "common safety sense". Use of a log as a boom pole, operating without the counter weight, bypassing safety circuts lead me to believe you are a careless person and people like you hurt and kill those around you. Are you a one man show or do you have employees?
Lets be honest those safety devices are as cheap as it gets. How many times have we had to wiggle them to get a peice of equipment started or moving. A little better engineering on these could go a long way to prevent these cobbel "fixes" that result in deaths. We've become so used to running equipment with these devices that there is SERIOUS issues when someone bypasses them.
X2 :Banghead
Its nice to see at least someone on doesn't feel the need to argue on the internet because nobody listens to them in real life. I love the fact that when you put the bar down, it says "FASTEN SEATBELT" But there is no safety switch on the seatbelt now is there? Thats because: "Lets be honest those safety devices are as cheap as it gets."
I don't think OSHA typically gets the reports of those fatalities suffered at home... I suspect the wife never thinks to give them a call... just make sure the insurance is paid up... sounds like you're the kinda guy who's wife might enjoy a nice big policy.... spend a few extra bucks for that accidential x2.
What is it you don't understand.... SAFETY IS NOT A OPTION ...
Man you guys are so smart! "I don't think OSHA typically gets the reports of those fatalities suffered at home." Wow, so there really is only 10 skid steer accidents a year in the commercial industry "SAFETY IS NOT A OPTION... " Mentalities like that are the reason that eventually stairs are going to be outlawed and the government is not going to let us drive or walk on our own. You would not even know what safety is unless someone spoonfed it to you. I hope you loose your job because you can't afford to meet some safety or bureaucratic standards. "Wife"...don't even go there, thats the root of most of your problems. But I know- I know, XXXXX and Pencil Pushing XXXXXXX are what make the world turn. If you're not going to answer the question. Please go waste someone else's time.
27 posts in a thread that asked probably the dumbest question on the internet,Do you have your answer yet???....
Douglasco, Im gonna go out on a limb here and ask....is it that you want to be able to run the aux. hydraulic circuit from outside the machine? I know this is a stock feature on certain brands....it may be stock on yours too. ...and if that is the question you meant to ask,you might wanna sit down and think about the problem before you start asking absurd questions to a bunch of professionals who act with the best interests of a complete stranger,in mind.
I understand their concern, but really i think its just a power trip. I personally am not one to tell someone that they are too stupid for their own good. I'm sure the truth is only one of them, if that, know the answer to the question. the others just like to talk. But to answer your question, no that is not the only thing i am after. There has been several times while designing and fabricating my own attachments and also while doing fine/precision activities with the machine where the bar has been a hassle and even dangerous. I'm sure trying to do the job by myself is "dangerous" but thats just life. In other words, sometimes I need one hand or foot on the controls and the other on the load/strap/welder etc. I'm not going to go full speed raming things on a slope with my bar up(or seatbelt off). When you bypass something that you are use to, or that someone else thinks you need, you just have to make sure you put on a different thinking cap. But thanks for trying to bring some resolve to the thread. There is a solenoid valve somewhere that is keep the oil from flowing, i just can't find it, or don't have the right current to activate it. No worries. I'll call the dealer Monday and I guarantee you I will get the answer(once i get a knowledgeable tech on the phone). I was going to post a pick of the 580 extendahoe on my bobcat. It worked out pretty good, and finally a bobcat is the envy of all the guys around that were bashing on them because they owned a backhoe. But now I don't dare, i don't think there would be much tech or constructive conversation.
Seeing as your such a "thinking out of the box" kinda guy ....why did you wreck the switch instead of just removing the bar?
I am trying to figure out why the ownership and moderation of this site allows a thread that is about disabling a safety feature of a machine. There are certainly a lot of people stating that this is a bad idea, and that is a great addition to the conversation. But what about those that just see one person hell bent on making this happen, and take his information and use it on their machine? Now lets say someone gets hurt or killed, and then points to this thread. I certainly would not want my name attached to an incident such as that. Weather or not I agree with it or not, it could be perceived that I do agree. I wouldn't want my name attached to that when our lawsuit happy society drags this possible incident to court.
Oh, and to stir the pot a little more. You wanna talk about dangerous. This POS is so noisy its ridiculous. That is very dangerous. I hear some of the new skidsteers(non-bobcat) are quiet. I hope all you "lawyer's best friends" get on that bandwagon, so that one day a noisy machine will be considered a "safety hazard" because its just annoying. It reminds me of the standards for headlights in the auto industry, they probably haven't changed in 50 years. But with the new lighting technology the potential to be so much safer is there, I guess the marketing gods have not yet decided to capitalize off it by making you feel unsafe in your current vehicles and getting you to sue and petition congress for "higher standards". Heres a point I know you've probably all heard and agree with. My dad always said we spend too much money on trying to keep people safe and not enough on teaching people how to drive and do things theirselves.
Maybe the owners and moderators have balls and see it as a battle of freedom(of speech etc) vs tyranny. :usa And aren't going to bend over to lawyers and courts and give up what the generations before them worked so hard to create. Why don't people see that lawyers take the cases they feel good that the courts will give them money for. Everytime there is a new case it provides a little more precedent, one more aspect, one new way for them to make money off of striping our freedom, free will and free thinking. " Seeing as your such a "thinking out of the box" kinda guy ....why did you wreck the switch instead of just removing the bar? " A. Because i have a temper which doesn't mesh well with my intolerance for BS. But i'm sure thats just what you were waiting to hear(save it) I clipped the wires and smashed the switch while trying to get it out. B. Because now I see the whole problem, I should have posted something more like: "Where can I get a booster seat so my 5 year old can operate my bobcat in a parade while i ride in the bucket" .....that is to say, you guys are just looking for someone to go off on. so sad. I need the bar, i use the bar!
Battle of freedom, HAH. Bud, you want to kill yourself, thats fine. Once you figure out how to make this work, why dont you start your own website. Lets see how long it takes before someone is knocking on your door with court papers. Wish you the best of luck in your defeated safety measure, maybe you will make it thru no problem, the next guy might not. Temper is a great reason to dismantle the safety features of a machine. Whats next on the to break list? As for your noisy complaint, maybe thats something else you can talk to your bobcat tech about. We have an S300, T300, and T200. The T200 and S300 are noticeably louder than the T300. Hey, it would be cool to see your T300 hanging off a log chained to a front shovel, maybe you could arrange pictures for us tomorrow?
As I said above, it's not about law and lawyers. Every poster is responsible for what they post. I can't imagine most of our members wanting to post information that might help a guy hurt himself anyway. As I said in my first reply, I think we have a pretty strong safety culture here on HEF. Obviously, douglasco isn't here to be a part of that. That's his prerogative, and I sincerely hope it doesn't come back to bite him in the butt someday. That being the case, there's probably not much point in going any further here. This one has become counter productive.