What will cause a injection pump to have reduced fuel coming out towards the injector lines? It has a full line of fuel on like the filter side of the injection pump but on the other end like the injector side of the pump it’s barely squirting any fuel out. It’s a Bosch VE pump on a 4bt Cummins.
Is the shutoff solenoid good?
Check your supply pressure to the pump. Also check all electrical connections. I do not know your machine but extra wires on battery cables and all related grounds. They are known for low fuel supply pressure to over heat the injection pump, lack of circulation for cooling. That messes up the electronics in them.
To bench test the shutoff solenoid do you just put power to it & the stem suck in? Or is there a proper way to do it? As far as electrical wires & things, it’s a older machine. For the fuel system I think it just has a wire from the main disconnect switch to a toggle switch on the dash then onto the solenoid. As far as a fuel pump, to my knowledge it only has a lift pump on the side of the block. The machine really has no electrical system on it.
Check your voltage at solenoid and your manual shutoff lever on pump. You can pull the shutoff solenoid and pull plunger out and reinstall solenoid and then see what happens.
Ok Coy I’ll check the voltage at the switch. See if I’ve got low voltage
Coy has a good idea..P#5 IF U CAN check the fuel pressure coming out of the lift/supply pump going INTO the inj. pump. SHOULD BE 3.5bar or 5psi in.. low fuel IN = low fuel OUT.. IF the pressure "in" is good & it still has low or no fuel out, u have an inj. pump problem.. {internal}
Ok pumpguy I’ll check that out. Thanks to you & the others for the help. Anymore ideas are greatly appreciated.
That's about all I can think of..12v at the sol.. decent fuel pressure in & a strong battery to spin the motor. Keep the lines loose at the injectors to watch to see the fuel squirting out of the lines & no air.. & tighten them up when that happens.. If its a Cummins engine.?? They're the only engine I've seen that LIKES to stick the injector OPEN & blow compression back thru the injectors.. I've seen THAT several times on engines that wouldn't start..
When bleeding the air should the lines on the pump be just loose or taken plumb off?
Tighten lines at pump
Someone once told me to bleed air at every connection. The 1 you have loose when it get fuel you move to the next connection continue on.
The fuel cutoff switch is working, I can get fuel to come out of the bolt that’s in between all the lines coming out of the pump. I ain’t sure what the bolt actually is but you can crack it loose & fuel will come out but just barely, barely squirts any on the lines towards the injectors. I’ve attached a pic of the pump & the bolt I’m talking about that’s in the middle of all the injector lines.
You loosen the lines at the injectors to purge the air, no reason to loosen at the pump as you will just drain the injector lines introducing more air.. Bad idea to start lossening random screws, bolts, plugs on the pump without knowing what they are, that plug in the pic accesses the pumping element. Did you measure voltage at the shut off solenoid as others said?? That wiring connection looks odd in the pic. I'd say the shut off solenoid is not opening fully, Or you have pump issues.
The injector lines was already drained cause the whole system has been took apart from 1 engine to another. I forgot to check the voltage on the wire. I just pulled the cutoff switch & put power to it & seemed to be working. As far as the connection it’s just a crimp on terminal with hoop that goes over the bolt & then tighten down. I’ll check voltage on the wire ASAP, I’ve gotta leave out tomorrow for dr appointments next week in Atlanta so it may be a week or so. I might be able to get someone to check for me just so I can relay the findings. As far as the bolt on the pump we didn’t take it out just cracked the threads on it. I’m not bad to fool with what I don’t know about.
Its good the sol. works.. but u have to find out if the machine is putting the correct voltage to it.. That "bolt" is a plug for the timing tool u use to time the pump to the engine. U tighten the lines ON THE PUMP & it really doesn't matter about the lines at the injectors.. but u have to be able to see the "drips".. The fuel needs to be squirting out w/ no air.. then tighten the lines.. The more lines u have loose, the faster the air comes out.. The problem I'm seeing is>> you've spun this over enough for the air to be purged.. so that tells me u got a pump problem..?? So u took the fuel system off of 1 engine & put it on another?? {not a good idea} Just because they "looked the same", there can be a gazillion things that can be different. Did it run on the other engine.?? Did u time both engines?? Was the drive shaft on the pump keyed.?? Regardless of the timing, it still should pump fuel.. Did u DE-GREASE & TORQUE the nut on the drive shaft.?? IF the dr. shaft is not keyed, it could be spinning in the gear & not fully turning WITH the gear.?? Just a few things "it could be".. OH & don't forget about the fuel going INTO the pump.. 5psi
Is this the same engine your mechanics chose not to time the fuel system in the first place?
Good Lord.. .. & the plot thickens.. I see where ur goin FWF.. but if it was running on another engine{?} it should at least squirt fuel on this one.. regardless if its timed or not.. UNLESS, someone didn't degrease the shaft & gear & tighten the nut tight enough.!!! 125 FtLbs {the Cummins manual is wrong} If it doesn't have a key, the gear could just spin on the shaft & not actually turn the pump..
Yes it was running on the other engine until the camshaft broke. The shaft on the pump is keyed with the gear. Both engines are the same cpl#
Do you have sufficient ground to the engine block? Not the starter, the block. Do you have a chassis/ block ground? If not, what happens if you just make one with a jumper cable? Good luck
Seeing I gotta pull teeth here.. A GAIN.. WHY are u swapping pumps.?? WHAT was wrong w/ the other 1.??
You need to make sure that the key didn't peel out of the slot in the shaft when the second pump was installed.
His engine crapped the bed. Bubba and LeRoy swapped the engine which he ordered by CPL without a pump . He's havin them swap the pump from the dud to the RECON. They told him, "it dont need to be timed." And here we are. I think I got that right.
There is no other pump or fuel system. I purchased what I guess some call a reman. long block. It was complete except for fuel system & engine bolt on’s. Don’t mean to make things seem rough, it’s as tough on me as you all. I’m in a wheelchair due to a recent mining accident & can’t even get to where it’s at. So I’m just trying to relay info back & forth. Again I apologize to you.
No need to apologize. We all wanna help get it resolved.
Have you had any results measuring voltage at solenoid and verifying ground integrity? BTW is this a recon or a take out from something else? Do we know the lift pump is up to task?
No one has actually been to it today to check anything. My dad & my uncle will be the ones looking it over for now. If the weather holds they’ll check it tomorrow for the correct voltage & the proper ground strap. I know with the old engine it had the ground hooked up. It’s a reman engine not a take out. The lift pump was purchased new & put on when engine was put in. But I guess it is possible to get a weak 1 off the shelf.
Do apologize to those that has helped out on this for not responding recently. But as I’m from east Ky & have had to travel to Atlanta to my spinal cord dr. Hopefully I can relay some info to you fellas soon. Let me ask this, I know the engine not timed won’t cause the no fuel coming from the pump but what are the consequences of the engine being out of time & it being run if the fuel issue gets fixed. Thanks again guys
Out of time means overfueling, overheating, predetonation, and your engine failing real soon..........and your mechanics scratching their balls wondering what the hell just happened.......with you footing the bill for their ignorance, again.
10-4 on that!!! Was just checking, gonna have to find someone with a little more knowledge to help me out there at home.
Great idea there my friend!
I know it has nothing to do with the pump not putting out fuel, but with this all being out of time people has said it being the ve pump with the keyed shaft it’s easy to get the engine & pump close. If the #1 cylinder is on tdc with the markings lined up. Do you install the pump then turn the pump shaft to try & line up the keyed slot with the cam markings then install the pump gear. Does that get you close with the install?
Some engine applications use a key and some don’t, I am not sure which you have. Most all the shafts on either type have the key way cut in the shaft regardless. It would be best to contact your Cummins dealer, give them your engine serial number, and they can tell you if it is a keyed pump or not. Some keyed systems use offset keys also. When there is not a key on a keyed shaft, you basically do the same timing procedure and ignore where the key way lands. You will stab the pump, while it is timed correctly, into the gear and tighten the shaft nut to 125 ft/lbs.
Vetech63 It’s a keyed pump Ve rotary pump, I know this for sure. So the things I said in the previous post you responded to, Will that get you close? Seems like some of what I read online that will get you in fair shape.
What happened to Darrel & Darrel?? why aren't THEY figuring this out?? Why not just do it right.?? On the timing cover there should be a data plate.. It gives u all the pertinent information for the engine.. CPL, HP, RPM & "TIMING LIFT" at outlet ?..{A}? Go SEE if its there & I'll run thru the pump timing w/ u.. No sense in doing it if its not there.. I've personally never put 1 on w/o the pump being in time.. I've done ahelluvalota service calls to TIME ONE after Darrel & his other brother Darrel unlocked the pump before putting the pump on.
Well thepumpguysc Darrel & Darrel is no longer with us. I’m in Atlanta Georgia right now for the rest of the week I had to come to my Dr. But to be honest with ya I don’t think the big tag is on this recon motor. To the best I can remember it’s just has a small tag that says the cpl# & hp, I’m thinking. I see no reason why it shouldn’t be done right. But I’m not a diesel mechanic myself, was just kinda learning as I went along. I was just asking questions of how things should be done. I had no clue that the pump needed to be locked. I thought you could just unbolt it from 1 engine to the other. I was just asking if I put the motor back at the #1 cylinder tdc & lined the dots or letters up with the key way on the pump would that be close or in the ballpark. I could’ve swore that someone said if the engine was in time & I lined the key way up the markings it would be darn close. But I don’t know, this is all new to me. So if something happens & I have to get this injection pump rebuilt will the shop lock this thing the way it’s supposed to be or what? Is it ruined because it’s done been removed.
Does the pump have to be locked down to install or would it be ok just to remove from 1 engine to another. All of this time when people has said the pump needed to be in time, I thought that it was just meaning install with the engine in time & line up my key way with the markings. But I don’t think he even done that. I know I’ve got 2 issues with this machine. 1 being I have a problem with the fuel system somewhere, possibly a pump problem. The other nothing being in time when it was installed. I’m pretty sure they just took the engine out of the crate & bolted it on without checking anything. But like I said I couldn’t get to the machine to even watch. But I do know 1 thing for sure the thing is getting moved to an area at the house that I can get to.
There should be a push pin just under the injection pump. I would remove it first to make sure the tip hasn’t already been broke off. There is a small hole in the gear, that when on compression stroke, the push pin will enter the hole which locks the engine in timing position. At this point is where you would use the injector pump shaft lock to lock the pump shaft in place....then you remove the injector pump. You will need to pull the injector pump at this point and a fuel shop will time and lock it for you. You will not unlock either the engine push pin or the injector pump shaft lock until the installation is complete (pump mounted and gear nut torqued.) TPG May know a shortcut for retiming that pump on the engine, but I am unaware of that procedure.
Thanks for the info vetech & all others that has offered help with this situation. Thanks Brandon
Whos to say the Darrell didn't take the key out.?? I had a customer do that once.. I couldn't figure out why this dam thing wouldn't time?? It was a fresh rebuild w/ a KEYED SHAFT.. The guy calls up screamin mad & wants "someone" out to his place RIGHT DAM NOW.. I get there & naturally have to listen to all the B.S. & THEN he says.."I KNEW something was wrong when that key wouldn't go into the gear.. SO I TOOK IT OUT".. ***.??!!! Anyway.. I THINK theres enough movement in the pump mounting flange that u can move it, to where it wont fire..?? Do U have the tools to remove the pump.. engine turning tool & special puller.?? When u get home.. BTW> I feel ur pain.. I've been sliced/fileted twice & wont do it again..{I need to} Theres a BIG screw plug infront of the pump on the timing cover.. u have to remove it.{un-screw} Then theres a nut & lock washer on the pump drive gear. {22mm/7/8"} Remove the nut & washer.. CAUTION>> DO NOT drop the washer..USE A STRONG magnet if your in doubt of your dexterity.. IF u drop the washer, the front of the engine has to come off.. Its not a bad idea to stuff a rag between the gear & timing cover after u remove the screw plug. What ur looking for is the actual key in the gear.. You'll need a mirror & flashlite.. More to follow.
BTW>> ALL THIS INFO is written in plain English WITH PICTURES in the shop manual.. GO GET 1..
10-4 TPG.... I needed a shop manual anyways. I may have a puller don’t know if it’s special or not, don’t have the engine turning tool myself either. I guess if I do it I might have to take the front off the engine to turn it over, I ain’t sure. I’ve gotta hunt down the right Manual when I get home. I do know the screw plug you mentioned on the timing cover. I’ll be able to check for the key steel that way.
There's an access plug towards the back of the engine on the bell housing that u pop out & insert the tool & it engages the teeth on the flywheel & u use a ratchet to turn the tool which in-turn, turns the engine.. REAL EASY & I wouldn't work on 1 without it.. Just google "Cummins engine turning/barring tool" & "VE pump puller/remover".. to see if u have anything that looks like it.. Yes, once the nut & washer are removed, u can use a mirror to look in the hole & SEE if the key is in the slot in the gear..
TPG, I just googled the 2 tools you mentioned while sitting here in the dr office. No I have neither of them, but I will. Hopefully before to long I get this thing figured out. I sure appreciate all of your knowledge & the other guys as well