So we had a driver spin a wheel this week and when i pulled the inside dual we found this. The boss said pull the hub he wants it welded. Is that the right way to go or what? Is all this cracking in the drum normal and how about wear? This truck is a 94 international but it runs great and every day. Pretty soon it will need wheels and spacers due to rust so would doing a hub pilot conversion be worth it or a waste of money?
That hub has probably had it, so has the drum. Its time to check into the cost of converting it to pilot wheels if that's what you guys want to do. If the rims and spacers are getting beaten out and the rest of the hubs have damage from spun rims I would definitely look into it. Then you can do brake jobs without pulling hubs. Lately I've been changing out a lot of obsolete trailer axles due to the fact that a complete brake job is only about $400 cheaper than a new axle with outboard drums. And much cheaper to do the next couple of brake jobs.
That hub is scrap, who wants to be responsible for a weld on an item that is easily replaced?
Agreed. Best thing that could be done with it is to turn it into a boat anchor.
The cracking is probably from overheating the brakes and like RZ said above the hub is scrap. Any one of those cracks could open up in a heartbeat and you'd be left with pieces of hub scattered down the highway. As above - turn it into a boat anchor.
No welding. Scrap pile.
That is the same thing that i said when i pulled it apart and saw everything. But i was told by people who apparently know more then me that the cracking is normal. I will not be part of putting it back together if that is the route that greater minds chose.
Well under Federal DOT rules, you can not weld wheels aluminum or steel or on any type of wheel end or hub period. Anyone who would risk using a failed hub or wheel has no business being in business. If my boss/owner asked or told me to repair something like that or let a repair slide that could cause a accident-he knows what will happen. I've told him straight to his face {Don't go there-I will pick up the phone and call the WSP-asap- job or no job.
Been there as well several years ago, older IH, with Milwaukee Mags as TS calls them, one ear damaged or cracked and an owner screaming to begging to weld it to "Get one more load off". I would NOT put MY name to that, have outright yelled back at a boss telling me to do it or walk that he knows where to send my last check to where he backed off and apologized. This becomes a What of the OTHER stress cracks in that hub, spin wear you cannot measure, a death of the operator or someone the truck takes out not IF it fails after repair but WHEN it fails. Whole Heartedly agree BOAT Anchor Scrap yard material is all that one is, any others with Spun damage follow this one.
Ditto all the other guys comments, scrap it. Anybody that want's to skimp on safety has no business being in business. Had the opportunity to disassemble a brake system and measure components (drums for oversize) at the direction of the district attorney's office on a trash truck that the driver died in after a run away downhill accident (lost brakes). Found nothing wrong with the truck and it was later determined the driver suffered a medical event, however as a mechanic its a stark reminder on the importance of safety.
I remember seeing an ad in a truck magazine probably 15 years ago of a company that would take a hub like that, machine off all the wheel tabs and weld a ring to the hub with a locating rim the whole way around so the wheel would automatically install straight. From the posts here that would seemingly be illegal but on paper it seemed to be a viable solution. Don't know the name of the company or if they're even in business anymore
nowadays I would not work for anybody that would argue with me over safety issues. it is my mechanics license that is on the line-not their's. if I were to lose my license I would not be able to make journeyman wages. an employer that tells you to use unsafe parts will throw you under the bus if and when a fatality and lawsuit happens
CYA (cover your ass)
You should scrap it
Going to be a ongoing theme, as more and more 20 year old plus rides suffer that issue. We had one on an older Mack last year. No longer available from Mack. Our Master Mechanic finally located one that a dealer had on a shelf somewhere in the midwest. With the loss of investment tax credits years ago and the soaring cost of new iron... this is an issue that someone somewhere probably will be visiting on a daily basis. Hopefully those people will make the right decisions as well.
This thread and other threads always reminds me of this fellow below. He never wavered. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roger_Boisjoly
So the boss asked if i could get that truck back together tomorrow. When i said nope cause a wheel end cant be welded his reply was well **** i guess we better find a new one eh.
So how do i go about finding this hub? After a quick internet search would i be correct in thinking that it is probably not made anymore? Will i be having to find something used?
Go off the Vin number first and see what comes up you never know there might be NOS or a hub that crosses over.
or if what Truck Shop suggests doesn't get any results do a google search for a Webb or Gunite pdf catalog and check in those. You'll need your inner and outer bearing #'s and other dimensions off the hub to ID it but its a pretty straighforward process. At least if you have a Webb or Gunite PN it'll broaden your field of vendors that may stock it and may even drive the price down a bit - but only a bit my guess is.
One thing no body noticed in the photo of your dump truck, it's running a 60" spread on the walking beam. I bet the traction is real good.
OK I did miss that!! Used to be Gunite had a Cross Reference to Manufacturer numbers, I have not dealt with them for over 20 years so no clue if that is still a fact.
Get a good one from a junk yard. they're not that hard to change.
I find that is the best truck we have it holds 20 ton legally. Has a 3176 and a 8ll it might not get anywhere fast but it always gets there. With some weight in the box you have to try to get stuck and its the most stable when dumping on an off lever surface.
Not certain he will find many in yards N of the Border, duty may be excessive getting one from this side.
Happy to say we are changing it over to a hub pilot set up. Our local truck shop has a scrap truck that hubs and wheels will work. Only thing that sucks is that i just put new tires on the drives and that is why i found the cracked hub in the first place. Oh well I guess more tire wrestling for me.
Better than having a major disaster on the highway.
You are way better off with hub pilot wheel ends, easy to find parts for.
Oh dont worry i am very happy about the change. Only bad part is a 1/2 impact wont be removing wheels anymore.
Actually one of the higher power 1/2" guns will take off pilot wheels if they were tightened to specs and not rusted solid. Now... If "Torquezilla" at the tire shop went crazy with the inch gun, all bets are off. A year ago I had to change a trailer hub because some local tire animal overtightened the nuts and stretched them to the breaking point. The duals went into the median on I-90 in a snowstorm, the brake drum was 1/3 ground away as was the bottom brake shoe. Tire shop paid my time and parts. Oh, if you meet a deputy sheriff that that can roll TWO 22.5 tires and wheels through a foot of snow at the same time... RESPECT him.
Yep, these are not the old trusty step lug Budds.
Yep, 450 LB FT max.
It's like any other practice using tools, some people have it and others never will. Because with some just right is not ENOUGH-those people will always over do it. A two second burst with a 1" gun is all that is needed and counting them down when running them down is a must.
Absolutely worth changing all of them to hub pilot. We have a 99 international paystar 5000 tri-axle. We found them all used at the salvage yard. Only thing is your axles are like 5/8 holes to bolt to hub. They're the only ones that'll work.
I have a Ford LT 9000 with those cast spoke wheels. I had one go bad and all I got from several dealers was NLA. I talked to another dealer and they got me a Gunite hub and they said they sell quite a few of them. Like someone said, just make sure they are the same bearings. FWD
Nah- hammer those puppies down. That way you can hope its someone else taking them back off.
Odd to think a 3/4” gun is all that is required for these style wheels/lugs after decades of the old budds. Mindsets
All is good now.
Will appreciate that lack of Wheel induced Truck wobble in the long Run!!!! Long Beam rides were a better set up for working on than standard length.