A logger friend has 7 bolts break on 450h rollers on an undercarriage change. Rental shop running 3 450j have had one bust off on the last 3 sets. A diehard Dresser man claims trouble free changes on his td8s and TD 15 e. "Always one" says the Cat guy. My plan for my first farm dozzer is to get the best machine with the worst undercarriage and do the change myself. $8K for everything on 450h and most times a bad uc sets price back more. (Or am I wrong?) So why the drastically different bolt breaking? Brand? Installation? Use? Salt? (Logger runs in salt a lot, rental-never)
Anti-seeze is your best friend when putting on new track pads or other components. Changed out a several sets of pads over the years, used anti-seeze every time and never had a broke bolt. Now that I have said that, the D5 is coming up for a set of pads.. ointhead
I could not agree more with what CM1995 has said. I have found the copper anti seize is far better and longer lasting in the organic environment of off road stuff. Good luck Ron
CM1995, It's like I have said for years about using the anti-seeze in many applications when asked why bother. I say you should make it easy on the next guy because the next guy just might be you. For you POGO fans it is just a revision of the "We Have Met the Enemy and He Is Us."
The pads are no big deal. The rock guard and roller bolts can be a pain. It does seem on the 350-650 JD dozers they break pretty easy since they are so small. I have the same issues on D4's also. You get good at welding nuts to the broken ones.
Deere dozers and anything case always has broken bolts..when doing u/c only thing I have noticed about the small td's is that there is no where for water to sit because it's a c channel side frames.. Just my observations and experiences.
Track rollers was what I asked guys about as it was brought up first. Never a comment about sprocket bolts or segments giving trouble. Cat D4h (early high track with lever steer at the dump) got nothing but hate for breaking the big bolts that held the front idler. Never heard about the back idler. Copper anti seize is sometimes rated for Stainless steel but not always. On critical stuff I know I will have to deal with years later I run a tap and clean up with air/kerosene(I now will use Ultra low sulfer diesel) and make sure to work the never sieze in really good. It does pay. Our soils eat all the steel on steel contacts before pads. No one has regretted the $20-40 a pad for new.
I still have about 1/2 a can of the Cat anti-seeze. Didn't Cat discontinue it? I know they didn't make it, just a branded it but what's the equivalent?
Hi CM1995 , Yep CAT has discontinued most all of its branded maintenance chemicals. tread locks anti-seizes and such but I think you'll find that most if not all dealers sell Loctite brand which is the same stuff. part number for 2.5 lb can is 1615524 8oz is 511447 these are Loctite part numbers . we order them with these part numbers though our parts system . here's a link to CAT / Loctite http://www.proloctite.com/caterpillar/downloads/cat-global-catalog-na.pdf
Thanks for the link PAcattech. Loctite has some pretty interesting products.
Anti seize for sure, don't forget your old friend the tap! I swear by running a tap through (most) threads in contact or close to dirt. Makes a hell of a difference when re fitting and torquing.
We use stocholme tar for our roller and trac bolts, guaranteed to undo after 20 odd years. Beats any antiseize stuff you buy. Bill.
Never thought of tar. I have seen it used only in museum exhibits. Can you elaborate? What makes for good pine tar? Where would I FIND it? How do you use it? Heat?
Years ago I did some marine work and taking stainless bolts out of aluminum or steel housings resulted in breaking many of the bolts due to corrosion. I'd tried several types of anti seize compounds and finally I tried some RTV silicone gasket maker. Viola, no more broken bolts. Since then almost everything I work on gets the same treatment. .clean and run a tap into the holes, put a dab of RTV in the hole and a dab on the bolt. I've found this works well on crawler undercarriage bolts. .it doesn't let water etc get into the threads so no corrosion takes place. Bolts break loose with about the same effort as it took to tighten 'em.
Take the swing frames off the tractor ,turn them upside down and use a impact wrench.Makes the job much easyer and if a bolt breaks it can be drilled out. Good luck Bob
Yair . . . FarmWrench . 8k bill is exactly right, it is good stuff and can be obtained from a horsy shop or vet supply place. Bill had the spelling a little wrong. It is "Stockholm" tar as in Stockholm, Sweden which is where the best stuff comes from. It is a pine tar used for preserving timber, ropes, horses hooves and what all and also very good on threads. Cheers.
Don't forget to throw the old bolts away and buy new bolts when you installing the new rollers or any undercarriage part, also buy the best bolts you can get, not just something off the shelf out of the local farm store.
I bought the same kind a dozer you are looking for. Ended up with a Dresser. I broke 3 rockguard bolts and one roller bolt and had to cut a few rockguard spacers also. Thought I was lucky with just that. I managed to get them all out by welding nuts on as said above and patiently swearing alot. I thought I was used to hard work until I did an u/c with back yard mechanic tools. But it can be done. Good luck.
Along with buying new bolts make sure you get the correct length bolts. Just long enough to go through the track frame but not much more. If the bolt protrudes an extra inch into the frame then you'll have an inch of rusty end to screw out through the threads next time you have to take them out. I've been wanting to try some Stockholm tar for a while. Will any brand work? Here's one US supplier that claims to have good stuff....but not inexpensive. http://tarsmell.com/tar.html I've got a Jeep bumper rope that I'd like to preserve with it too....
Yair . . . D6c10K . Never were truer words spoken . . . same thing with cutting edge bolts, they should be dressed off just level with the nut. Things may be different now but grade 8 and better bolts . . . in Australia they used to be generically called 'Cat' bolts . . . were relatively expensive and I never viewed them as "consumables". As well as a tap run into the holes rock guard and roller bolts were often cleaned up with a die or at least given a mechanical wire brushing. Cheers.
Oh yes, when we did full u/c jobs in the shop at the dealership we would pull the track frames off and flip them upside down on heavy sawhorses. Every hole was tapped and every bolt was replaced. We would put 2 techs on it and roll a JD 450-650 dozer out in a day. Including building up idler pockets and resealing the adjusters.
We don't have much trouble with the cutting edge bolts on our loaders. Any bolt that extends beyond the nut is worn away flush with the nut long before the edge needs changing. One thing I have done for years is to use hardened washers under the nuts. I feel it gives a better surface for the nuts to turn on making for a tighter clamp and on the rare time you may need to torch off a nut it gives something to protect the base edge from getting notched with the torch.
The washers are a good idea as I am rubbish at torching things off.I have some scraper edges ready for turning soon and will probably end up needing a new moleboard if I cut them off!!
I am finding that a 4-5 inch grinder with a .070 cut off wheel,is doing most of the work we were doing with the torch,on bolts bearings ect.
Call us at Heavyquip. We sell aftermarket tractor parts. We specialize in undercarriage and small tractor parts. 972-570-1330
Back when I had a steadier hand and was in practice I could split the nut on two sides, wash all the way down to the plate, pop the remaing halves of the nut off with a drift and hammer, save 9 out of 10 bolts, just clean them with a thread chaser. We were mostly working in sand, the bolts were usually good to go for flipping the edges, new edges, new bolts. The sand would wear the nuts to where a socket wouldn't begin to grip on them.
Take the time to run a tap down each hole and blow them out with a slovent/air gun. Clean is good.
Welcome to the Forums Hqdallas. Take a moment to read the Forum rules found here - HeavyEquipmentForums Specifically this section - This post is your freebie.:cool2
Used to use Cat neverseize exclusively on dozers and excavators. Now that I'm working for Bobcat, I chase the threads, wire wheel the bolts if the customer is cheap, and liberally apply pipe dope to the bolt. Seem to do a good job for rollers and sprockets, not so much on other fasteners that are exposed to high vibration.
If you can smack the bolt on the head a few times with a very large dead blow, that does help
8k bill your showing ur age a bit there mate, for those of u who don't know Stockholm tar is the original never cize and still the best on undercarriage , think clean that should help
Yair . . . Guday Cam85 . You're back!!!. . . . whatcha uptah? Cheers.
Hey Scrub yea mate I'm back,been back a few days now been doing a bit of sleeping. I will have to start a thread and catch up. Bad news my camera went flying the outher day fell on 2 the track and is smashed but I think I might have some footage of my little d6c 71a direct drive open cab flat track hooked to a 8k pulling on some big timber I'll have to get it up. Just finished a 35 thousand Meg dam with a 615 managed to do it for a buck 70 a meg. And just lost my job did to good a job and ran myself outa work that's the short version. I trust u been keeping well
:drinkup:QUOTE=Cam85;515092]8k bill your showing ur age a bit there mate, for those of u who don't know Stockholm tar is the original never cize and still the best on undercarriage , think clean that should help[/QUOTE] Yep,only a 70 model but feel like I'm defiantly over the hill and pumping the brakes! Good to see your back.
I use the hell out of the copper based anti-sieze on undercarriage bolts