My Case D188 engine has been smoking at idle for some time and is getting worse and here lately has suffered a significant loss of power. Blowby is pretty bad as the dipstick tube puffs air to the point it splatters little {tiny**specks of oil all over your shirt when open while idling. She always starts right up tho, even if left sitting for a month you can jump on her, turn the key and fires up within a fraction of a second. Low compression would cause a hard start wouldn't it ? and how much power can it cause you to loose? I'm thinking its time to pull her in the shop and fix all her little problems going on... any input from you guys ? thanks...
Could the problem is confined to mostly one cylinder, like rings broke on one piston. I'm not suggesting only fixing one cylinder just that it may be starting on three that are still producing fairly good compression. May be the smoking at idle was a bad injector that has finally burned through the piston on that cylinder. You could try doing it like this company does, put it on winter work list then park it for three months and expect it to be all better in the spring!
Good questions, I've got some opinions on whether compression and blowby are the same thing, and just how bad the compression has to be to affect power and starting, but it probably doesn't really matter. It sounds like you lost enough power that you're going to do something about it, and a compression test will probably tell you something (like kshansen says, one will be way low) don't forget leak down and add oil steps. If not then having the injectors checked would be my next step.
Kshansen, thank you for your reply ! The D188 is in my Case 450 track loader. My problem is that I use it on a daily basis to skid/load logs. It is a well taken care of low hour machine so its worked perfect for what I need it to do. But I am a small operation and have no other way of skidding my timber so when problems come up, I most of the time have to patch them to keep working, but they are starting to catch up with me, Lol. You have a very good point, I never thought of broken piston rings on one piston. I was just assuming a worn out engine. I will get an complete inframe overhaul kit online this evening. But I have a couple questions if I may ? #1- Is aftermarket overhaul kits ok to use or am I wasting my time with cheap parts ? #2- If I do an inframe build on her do I have to rebuild the injector pump as well? How do I tell condition of pump ? Is it one of those '' if its bad, it don't work'' deals ? #3 It has pencil style injectors.. Can they be cleaned and adjusted or can they be rebuilt ? Thanks again as I can use all the ''coaching'' I can get, lol.
Delmer, It is definitely to the point were im about to tare into her. She has lost power to the point she wont turn (spin) the tracks over when against a stump or when the blade is buried. And can loss of power create higher converter temps ? My converter temps started running a tad hotter around or after the time the power loss occurred... I wish I could find a bench injector hand pump so I could test and clean them myself. I was always told there is not much to the pencil style injectors and they could be cleaned/rebuilt to new condition.
Only if you're spending more time stalled or slipping the converter. On the other hand a failing torque converter WILL cause higher temps and loss of power. You are going to do a compression test first, right? My understanding of pencil injectors is they are basically disposable. You can adjust the pressure and test them, but I don't think there's much to clean, and they're cheap enough to replace.
From my understanding, the more power/torque the engine produces, the more torque/power the torque converter produces. So I'm thinking, the less power the engine produces, the lower rpm is held under load and the more time the torque converter spends unlocked/slipping, which would result in higher running torque converter temps. Correct me if I'm wrong, as I'm sure I am in some way. Just my theory, Lol. But then again if I actually knew anything I wouldn't be asking would I ? Haha
First of all what do you mean by blow by and how are you measuring it. Compression and blow by are directly related in that blow by is the compression gas that leaks past the rings and cylinder liners when the cylinder if firing. Typical symptoms of high blow by in addition to hard starting in cold weather might include lots of engine oil seeps on gasket flanges, front or rear main seal leaks and engine oil being blown out the crankcase breather tube. There will always be some blowby in every internal combustion piston engine just because of the movement of all those parts in a closed space. The manufacturers specify a way to measure that pressure and specifications that are maximum before a tear down is necessary. I use a quick and dirty check by using a water tube manometer hooked into the dipstick tube. Run the engine till it's at operating temperature, install the manometer tube and run the engine at high idle and full load and get the reading. Anything over one inch is reason to start looking deeper with things like compression tests. Torque converter temps are caused by two things basically. The first is the amount of load applied for a certain period of time or internal leakage in the converter. A loss of engine power usually would not contribute torque converter over heating. The usual culprit to high torque temps is cooler plugging. Internal leakage indicates something is broken and I'm sure the manufacturer will have some kind of procedure for checking internal leakage of the converter. It might be will worth your while as kshansen and delmer are suggesting to spend a little more time doing some troubleshooting instead of just diving into the motor hoping for a single issue to solve all your problems.
responding to the OPs first question for lack of a better way of saying it......Power is compression and vice versa.....the percentage of compression lost is the same as the power lost...... compression can be gained or lost in a engine though various means.....IE...you can lose compression due to ring wear and blowby.......and you can gain compression due to carbon build up ......... point being at some point lack of compression will mean NO power.... that being said i think your on the right Track Timberking
Be sure to check all crankcase vent points, filters, etc. Any restriction will cause problems, especially in an engine with high hours.
Exactly, at least in theory. But in the real world, if you hear hoofbeats, suspect horses not zebras. If the torque converter is running hotter, look at the cooler, oil and filter. If the engine power is low, take the injectors and get them tested, and test the compression while you're at it. While we're speculating, how much oil does this engine use? or leak? What year (ish) and how many hours? Have you checked the air filter?
If you have considerable blowby, is there a associated miss under load, or a weak starting cycle? One cylinder down on compression of a four cylinder will rob you of 30% HP, the running mate cyl. will do more work but the transmitted torque to the flywheel will degrade faster, on a six it is close to 25% for a dead or dying hole. A in general weak engine with all the holes degraded will drop by 20% HP, more fuel just cannot compensate.
[]John C[]. > I relly didnt know of a way to ''measure'' the blow by but i can say it is probably enough to blow a golf ball off the top of the tip stick tube. The puff or ''pupffs'' coming out imitate that of 1 cylinder. I can pull the dipstick out while idling and afterwards my shirt, arm and hands are covered with, hundreds of tiny specks ''dots'' of oil,from blowing out the dipstick hole. []Delmar > Air filter is clean ''ish'' It hasnt seemed to burn a drop of oil ? I check it periodically. No oil leaks, and she only reads 2,100 hours, which i would say are correct by the condition of the rest of the machine. I am the second owner and the first took VERY good care of all of his equipment, being the only reason i would buy an 79 model ( 90% sure) because he did a repaint and covered the tag so i cant make out the serial #, and the gentlemen asked my name 3 times in an hour But he said 79. Dmiller > No miss under load. She will start out good but as i build maybe half a blade of dirt she bogs, she will keep pushing but you can really hear her strain with it. And agains a stump or hard ground she bogs way down and will not turn the tracks, but she bogs very low so I assumed the torque converter was ok. TXGOAT> just looked through everything this evening and from what I see there is no restrictions anywhere, any that i can find anyway. I called 4 auto shops this evening to rent a compression tester and none had one that would reach a diesels pressures. What kinda numbers should i be looking for when i test it ? I will pull injectors tomorrow and have them tested, but almost about to just order new ones with as cheap as they are. $50 a peace. so $200 would put all new injectors in, our local injector shop is ridiculously high priced and would probably charge me that much to clean and test the existing injectors She's an old gal but shes mine and my first peace of equipment so im willing to bust a few knuckles and bleed for her.
If it is a 1979 model with only 2,100 hours I would wonder how long it sat unused. That can be worse that being run many hours. When sitting for long time there can be moisture build up in fuel tank and oil pan and this can lead to fuel pump and injector problem or rust in cylinders. I think some trouble shooting is of first order. Some simple tests with little or no tooling needed. Start it up and while sitting there keep feeling exhaust manifold to see if one cylinder is noticeably cooler than the others. If it's not to hard to do remove the exhaust manifold and with hearing protection on start and see if one cylinder is doing all the smoking or blowing cold air or even fire out the exhaust port. If a very noticeable difference can be found in one cylinder you could try moving the injector for that cylinder to another and see if the problem moves with the injector. While injectors are out you could turn engine over to get one cylinder at a time at the top of the compression stroke with valves closed and use a rubber tip air blow gun to pressurize the cylinder to see if you can hear air leaking into the crankcase or out the intake or exhaust valves. Be careful when doing this as if the piston is not right at the top of stroke the air pressure will make the engine spin over half a turn with some force! If you are having a problem keeping the engine from turning while doing this pull valve cover and remove rocker arms so valves remain closed on all cylinders. A little air leaking into the crankcase past rings is normal but if one is very noticeably worse that is the bad one. Now if you are to the point you know you need to do a major overhaul here is one place to at least look at for prices on parts: http://www.agkits.com/Case-188-G188D-Diesel-Engine-Rebuild-Kit.aspx#hometab This is a machine shop I have dealt with for years, just had them do the heads for my Harley they don't do motorcycles but did for me. The owner is Brian and I think he would give you a honest answer if you were in need of information about the parts they sell.
Used to be a heat triggered crayon(wax compound) we used on exhaust manifolds to locate 'cold' cylinders on a cold start, not certain if they even make them anymore. Could try a welders marker, not necessarily soapstone to mark the port points then start the tractor to see which one melts away last.
Kshansen > The previous owner did mintion it was used at least once or twice a month cleaning up manure on his farm after he retired, so I wouldn't think it sat that long. He still had A REALLY REALLY NICE 580 backhoe, Cat dozer, Tacha trackhoe, rubber tired cable crane and several other peaces of equipment stored in buildings on the farm. I will take an infared laser thermometer tonight to each exhaust port on the manifold and see if there is any differences between cylinders and post the results for you guys to review. Will the dead cylinder run hotter or colder ? I was always told a bad injector would make a cylinder run hotter. But with It being a possible compression issure im not sure. I attempted to pull the injectors today and was unable to get the first one out let alone all of them They seem to be ballooned pretty bad and I didn't want to break anything, any thoughts there ? While I was under the hood I decided to check the timming just for the hell of it and discovered that I have no timming pointer I have two little slide to the side hole plates on the bell housing but when removed there is no pointer anywhere ? One on each side of the engine and I could not see any degree markings on the flywheel or torque plate.
That heat triggered crayon is called Temp Stick and should be available at most welding shops http://www.markal.com/temperature-indicators/
With the engine starting fine and sounding normal, I'd think the bad cylinder(injector) will be hotter. If you start an engine and it's puffing white smoke for a couple minutes the cylinder is obviously not firing and will be cooler than than the rest. If those are the pencil type with two tiny slots that you're supposed to be able to hook into, then just grab the ball part of the body with a vice grips and twist back and forth until they work loose. They won't look good when you get them out, but they'll be fine as long as you don't bend them. If you get the injectors out, you can do a leak down test with a gas engine compression tester if you don't have a diesel compression tester. I mentioned adding oil earlier, do that only after the leak down test, don't crank it that way, it might ignite and blow your gauge.
Delmer> It does smoke white (white ish gray), its hard for me to tell the dominance in color, but smokes consistently, even and hour later at idle.I tryed to check temp at exhaust ports by shooting with laser on each header port and all were within 20 degrees or so except #4 which was dramatically cooler even by the touch except it is the end of the manifold and has a capped manifold port, it also seems to be a bit thicker iron, so i was thinking that it could possibly be cooler due to increased thickness and angle(flow) of exhaust. But when first started and touched by hand the first three cylinders would burn me up when touched but the 4th would only due so if I held the tip of my finger on it for an extended amount of time. I am going to pull the exhaust manifold of tomorrow night to check and see if i can isolate the smoke to one cylinder. I have had no luck on finding an compression tester to rent capable of a diesels pressures. I am on a budget and the cheapest one i found was around $300.00 (here local that is). I also made a little tool that i believe is going to get the injectors out without damaging them. Will know more and post tomorrow. Thank you for your help.
I'd pull that #4 injector, and pull the manifold only if I needed the room to work on the injector. It sounds like you have your answer, the capped end of the manifold won't make much difference at all. You could take that injector to be tested, or order one new one and see if it makes a difference, or try to rig up a leak down test first.
John C. Awater gauge manometer reading of 1inch WG would be hard to obtain unless he has a U-tube Manometer.I doubht he has. He would probably have access to a digital Manometer that would give him both KPA and PSI readings. Not knocking your advice,but Water Gauge Manometers are like buckle up boots. No one buys them anymore, easy to make but.
I was repairing something for a farmer. ...upon leaving he asked ...could you look at my" It was a large propane powered forklift that rarely gets used sitting in a shed. Well what's wrong with it? ""Won't Start" Do it Crank ? " Let's hear it" It was spinning like "a windmill in a hurricane" It's not that you have low compression. ......You don't have Any!
Probably valves stuck in guides from rust.
I never did tear into it so I never found out. ... but thanks K'