Very soon I am going to have to remove and re-seal the bucket cylinder on my '97 555E. I've read a lot of the posts on cylinder repair and have sourced this seal kit through Reliable Aftermarket Parts . My questions/concerns are: 1. How much does this darn thing weigh? (I assume I am going to have to remove it to make the repair) 2. Is there a preferred position to have the hoe and bucket in so as not to kill myself Plus in some of the posts I've read that the nut on the end of the rod is torqued to an ungodly high value, making it near impossible to remove --but I am not sure if what i read about was the same nut. Any tips or things to watch out for would be greatly appreciated. Thank you in advance. R
Leave it on the machine, lay the boom out and block it up to a comfortable height. I prefer a little below waist height so you can reef on the gland to get it apart. Curl the bucket so ram is mostly out of the cylinder. Once you get the gland out, unpin the ram and it will slide out. Big mess, fluid comes out too, lots of it. Block the cylinder up out of your way, secure with chain or straps so it doesn't come loose and down on you, it's heavy. Now put the pin back through the ram to keep it from turning while you undo whatever holds the piston on. Put wood blocks under the ram to support it. At this point the ram is laying on top of the boom just where it was in your picture, but without the cylinder. Does that make sense? Lots of wood blocking is handy, strap the blocks to the boom so they don't squirt out. Worst case take ram to a shop and get the bolt/nut/whatever out. Heat and long bars are you friend. Joe H
Joe--h hit the nail on the head. A couple of points to drive home... The gland nut is going to be TIGHT. Don't be afraid to whack the end of the barrel where the threads are on the inside of the tube, with a BFH. This usually will allow it to turn. FYI, I usually pein in rows. I did not do the one in the pic, but it too worked. Plan on using a gland nut wrench with a 3/4" breaker bar, and a pipe. This is best achieved with 2 people. Some use a 4' pipe wrench and a pipe. This does make a bit of a mess of the gland nut tho. Loosen the hydraulic hose that feeds the back or blind side of the ram. Without doing this, the rod will not come out.
A u-cup seal installer is a nice tool to have. Ebay sells them in a set of 3 for like $30. A pick set is nice to have as well. Harbor freight has them for like $2. My go to cylinder tools below.
You guys are great!! This is exactly what I needed. @joe--h Thanks. yes I understood everything you mentioned -- thank you. There is a local shop that rebuilds cylinders. They do good work and are not too expensive. I would really like to attempt to do this myself. I've seen others here on the forum do it in the middle of the woods with less tools than I have, so I should be able to tackle it. Most of my tools are automotive based, so I'll need to upgrade a few. @Swetz Looks like you have answered this question a few times already Thanks for taking the time for all the pics and tools. The step-by-step is very helpful. I definitely need the gland wrench and the seal installer. The tools image is great reference. I have a 3-foot pipe wrench, but I'll need the 3/4 breaker. What's the paint marker used for? Anyway, thanks again to you both for the responses. Not sure when I will get to this, but it is leaking pretty bad when in use. In the position shown in the above image, It doesn't leak but a drop every few minutes. I will repost with images when I decide to jump into it.
I have used the paint marker to mark the bolt head in relation to the piston, and piston to the rod. I do not have a torque wrench that goes that high, so I make it as tight as it was. Recently, I purchased a 1" drive impact gun that blasts them off and on. I feel comfortable that they are tight with this gun. It is an IR. I have herd others sat the Harbor freight works, but others say no go. I think it is more about the size of the hose and volume of the compressor, honestly. You need a 2 stage compressor and a 1" hose for the correct air volume. A socket with a breaker bar and a pipe will work as well tho.
My gland nut wrench is OTC. Many on here are buying the knock off brands with good results as well.
I didn't see the process for removal of glands on mine that just came back from the shop but the guy said they were seized on pretty good, basically rusted together. Now, I didn't pay attention prior to sending them off but I did noticed on their way back that the holes, on mine, that the gland wrench go into, got stretched a bit... When all else fails my instinct is a longer pipe, but I've never attempted this before. Also, I helped pull the boom cylinder and the secondary boom cylinder (both can be seen in my avatar over there <---) and they were both, definitely 2 man lifts. We ran an iron pipe through each pin hole and it made it much easier to carry. Easily a couple hundred pounds each. Also again! I don't know how much it helped or if it helped but it was suggested to hose down the pins with wd40 or an equivalent a few times to loosen them up a bit. Other than some work swinging the BFH and holding an iron pipe in place they came out nicely. There may be a spot, when you set the bucket down that loosens the force put on that pin, so it's not bound by the weight of the boom. I can't think of how the physics works on that so it may not be possible. It would suck to pop that pin out and things come crashing down on you. We blocked from the ground to the main boom pivot as well, so that may allow for a little bucket pin play... Excellent description Joe and Swetz, thanks guys!
Looks like the weight of this particular cylinder is in the 140 lb. range -- according to messicks shipping weight. I've already been hitting the pins and associated attaching points with penetrating oils. There are a few pipe wrench teeth marks on the base plate so this will not be the first rodeo for this cylinder. Pin holes don't look too bad... Removing the bucket pin is not something I'm looking forward to. I'll be extra careful when I get to that point. Thanks for the heads up. R
Good point aighead. I did not mention that I do support the boom. The black stand you see in the pic below is what I welded up (different cyl, yes, but it would work on the dipstick as well.
Well, I'm gearing up for this. Ordered the seal kit, gland wrench and seal installer this AM. Been looking at the cylinder and re-reading what you guys have posted -- going thru the steps in my head. I really do get it now. I might take a few practice swings at the base plate with the pipe wrench just to get the feel of it. It isn't like I'm gonna scar it up it any further than what it is already. I have an eight foot metal fence post for added leverage that I've used before. Looking forward to it...film at 11
@rumblecloud I will give you this warning. Buy good tools especially stuff you are going to rely on. For instance I broke a 3/4" Snap-On breaker bar trying to remove a piston nut. Horror Freight stuff is sub standard at best. I know many here love that store but don't risk injury saving money. Buy good tools and have them forever. Picks and stuff if they break are not going to get you hurt. Years ago I nearly knocked myself out and I thought I lost some teeth when a cheap ratchet I was was using a pipe on let go. After that day all the cheap junk went in the garbage and I replaced it with good quality. Ebay is a great place to find tools. Being an automotive guy I did not have any 3/4" tools. I bought a new setup of Snap-On for a fraction of new. Who cares if it is 60 years old? Just hunt stuff down.
Harbor Freight is okay for some stuff, but not somewhere I go to on a regular basis. Most of my stuff is older hand-me-downs -- Craftsman mostly from my dad and brother. Some odds and ends. But yeah, I hear you on the tool side. I'm still using the Craftsman tool box and some of the tools that came with it that I bought when I was little. Thank you for your concern and advice. Well received
The older Craftsman tool are excellent. They are starting to make stuff in the USA again.
From what I am hearing Stanley Black & Decker just decided to close the brand new Texas plant where Craftsman tools were to be made I don't know if it it is SBDs fault...we make it hard to do what they were trying to do.
Well all the parts are here. Picked up a 3/4-inch 36-inch breaker bar to go along with my 8 foot equalizer. Now I just need to find the time to tackle it. I've watched numerous vids of people removing the gland nut with varying levels of success/failure, but in the end, most of them finally came off. Looking forward to the challenge.
Don't forget to pein with a BFH. This is your key to cracking the gland nut loose!!! A second person to keep the pins engaged in the gland nut is also important.
I like doing them on the back of the dump truck to keep the cylinder up not to loose alot of fluid. I clean everything good first.
When I did my crowd cylinder I bought the 1" HF gun. It wouldn't touch the piston bolt with my little compressor. I took the rod to the local yellow JD dealer and the guy there pulled out the exact same HF gun I bought and zipped the bolt right out. He had at least a 1/2" hose with who knows how much air pressure and volume. Air pressure and volume is indeed the answer. My 3/4" pull handle and pipe extension also did not touch it. Next time I have to use it I am going to pull the large pipe plug on my tank and adapt a 1/2" hose to run the gun unrestricted to see if I have enough pressure. If not I see a compressor upgrade in my future.
Always nice to get new tools!! I have a 2-stage IR T30 compressor (5hp 230V, 60gallon tank) that I purchased over 20 years ago. I love the compressor, and never had a lick of problem with it. When I was looking for another compressor for my PA house, I went right back to the IR compressors. I found though, that they had been moved offshore, and did not look at all like the old one I have. I continued my search, and found a Quincy that is similar in stats to the old T30, and is still USA made, and looked like quality. I found that Lowes was the best price, and they would ship it to the store, so no freight. I used the Lowes card, so 5% off too. I have had the compressor now for about 5 years, and no problems with it either. I think they had a deal, whereby if you purchase a maintenance kit on the same invoice, they doubled the warrantee...think that has come and gone, but could be handy, and worth looking into before you purchase. ...Update...Lowes no longer sells it , and, It is now ~$2,000.00...I paid $1,200.00 +tax 5 years ago Prices are crazy!! https://www.lowes.com/pd/Quincy-Compressor-60-Gallon-Two-Stage-Electric-Air-Compressor/50073343
Was able free up the gland nut today in between rain storms. I have to tell you all I was getting a bit discouraged. I won't go into the details cuz you have all been there already. I didn't completely remove it as I didn't have time to complete the entire job, but I accomplished what I set out to do. The 36 inch pipe wrench and 8-foot equalizer were what I finally succeeded with. And Swetz, you'll appreciate this --- the BFH is what did the trick! I peened it as you suggested - hard - and it finally gave up. I used a black Sharpie to mark the podition and I got it to move about an inch. Enough to know I can loosen it all the way when I get the time. I'll post more pics when I finally finish the job. Thanks for all the advice. The piston nut is the next odstacle..
Something you might want to do to avoid nicking the rod is wrap some cardboard and duck tape to it. If (when) that pipe wrench slips off you'll be glad you did. Forgot about that in my first explanation. Joe H And congratulations, it's downhill from here. Well, sorta. It's still a miserable job but you're on the way.
Quincy are generally considered the cream of the crop of compressors. I was looking at some at Peavey Mart (farm store) and I think they said 20,000 hours life expectancy! Of course this would be for regular use and not steady sandblasting or gouging at max. volume for hours on end.
You are half way there! Great advice! Be careful that the pipe wrench is not grabbing the nut and the barrel at the same time. It will be snug all the way off, so don't think something is wrong. As you stated, the next hurdle is the bolt holding the piston on...keep your equalizer handy
I think my Quincy had something about being rated for 20k hours on it too. I will prolly never test this fact tho...LOL The old IR and the Quincy are very different. The IR has 2 large cylinders in a v configuration, and seems to run relatively slow. The Quincy is also a v style, but has 4 pistons, and seems to run fast. It may be a shade quieter too, although both let you know they are running. My ultimate plan is that once I sell off my house in NJ, and move full time to PA, I will have both of them in PA. I will switch from 1 to the other for regular work, and run both when high volume is necessary. The way they are both built, I figure my kids will get to use them after I am gone .
I was just thinking about this... I want to make it clear that I did not invent the peening. I learned it many years ago from an old timer. Additionally, when I joined this forum people were already talking about the same approach. I don't want to take any credit for your success, others figured it out and I parroted it. That said, it usually does work if you are brave enough to hit hard enough. Many try, but do not whack the snot out of the barrel and often do not succeed.
Somewhere there is a thread about it with 27 8x10 color glossy pictures with circles and arrows and a paragraph on the back of each one explaining what each one is. Can't find it search hates me today. Joe H
My search worked really well and I don't believe you did what I think you just did: "And they was using up all kinds of Cop equipment that they had hanging around the police officer's station. They was taking plaster tire tracks, foot prints, dog smelling prints, and They took twenty seven eight-by-ten colour glossy photographs with circles And arrows and a paragraph on the back of each one explaining what each One was to be used as evidence against us." Hahaha well played Mr. Joe H
FWIW ! Hoist piston end cap removal question? Trying to get the cap off to install seals in my Lull hoist cylinder piston. It seems frozen / rusted. I had a adjustable pin spanner wrench and I did the oppostie side and it came off easy. It now started to deform one hole as the pins are not really big enough and it slipped. :( I don't want... HeavyEquipmentForums
I worked for a petroleum equipment company for a year in my younger days. Mostly rebuilding gas pumps but we were also a Quincy service center. I did a few valve jobs on them but never had to go into the bottom end of any. They were the only compressor I have seen with an oil pump and pressurized oiling like a engine. We had a big one at my last place of employment that had been running the whole 3 story building and our shop for over 20 years and was still pumping when I retired.
Sorry it's been so long to respond to this, but the weather and honey-do lists have me pretty busy the last couple of weeks. Anyway finally had the time to pull the rod and get it to the bench. Next is to try and loosen the piston bolt. I'll try it on the bench first but more than likely I'll have to re-attach is to the bucket. I want to clean it up first and make sure I won't damage the rod. I was surprised that not a lot oil came out -- prolly cause it all leaked out. Ended up using a 36 inch pipe wrench and the equalizer until it got loose enough for just the pipe wrench.
Your bench sitting on those plastic sawhorses is never going to work. How the hell are you going to hold onto it? Put it back on the machine where it can't move and have at it. Joe H
Also make sure your table is really really clean. Don’t want any crap going in the tube or on the new seals.
I wouldnt waste the time on the bench, unless it is strong and has a big vise on it. One of the keys to cracking the bolt is that the rod doesnt move every time you apply torque. Put it back with its origional pin and give it a whirl.
Ha...yes I know. That's my wife's painting bench. It was the only semi clear horizontal space available. I kinda figured that --- but you're right. I'll just go back out and re-pin it. Hopefully I can get to this today sometime if it doesn't rain...again. Thanks for all the input.
When I did my crowd cylinder I had to order a socket to fit. I wouldn't touch it without the right size 6 point socket. I ended up taking mine to a dealer where they had enough air pressure to zap it out. The guy that loosened mine used the same 1 inch HF air gun I have.
Funny you posted this...I just came back from AutoZone with the biggest socket they had and it would not fit. But you are right. Don't want to take a chance on f'ing the bolt head. According to the book, this is the bolt: #82866944. I found a resource at AVS Parts that lists it as an M30 x 2 x 100mm, Cl 10.9. There is a stamping on the bolt head that reads TMZ 10.9. I was just trying to find the size of the head to find the right size impact sockets. I don't know how that number translates to a size though. Suppose I could just use ruler At any rate I'm not gonna get to it tonight, so I'll do some more looking later. Thanks again. R
10.9 is a metric designation for the highest strength bolts available. It is above grade 8.
betting 45mm socket fits or 1 3/4
1-13/16th" but 45mm is close Took it to my son-in-law this evening. He does a lot of older JD tractor restorations. Has a good size compressor for that and his autobody trade/work. Not a 1-inch hose though and a standard size impact gun. Still I thought it was worth a try. No joy though. Tomorrow we go to a company called AIS. They sell heavy construction equipment. Son-in-law knows a couple of the mechanics. Hopefully that will come through. If not, then off to the cylinder shop.
Which AIS location, they should have no problem
65809 Gratiot Ave, New Haven, MI 48050 I still salivate when I drive by. They have a ton of equipment out front.
Awesome, I'm not far from New Hudson location
Update and a question... I did end up at AIS and they were able to get the bolt out. They had to heat the bolt head and use the big two-handed impact gun. There was quite a lot of thread locker on it. I do have a question on replacing a couple of the rings on the piston. The kit I bought from Reliable Aftermarket Parts did not include the two black seals (I guess that's what they are) that are on either side of the yellow seal, (which came in the kit) in the center. The question is are those two black "seals" supposed to be replaced? They got a little scuffed in the removal process. Thanks R
Happy times! Glad you got it cracked loose! The black pieces you pointed out are often called bearings or guides. They are used to keep the piston square in the bore. They are oftentimes not available separate from the piston itself on NH machines. They do not seal so if they got a little roughed up, no big deal. Make sure there isn't any metal imbedded in them, they are smooth, and clean, and reuse them. If you are going back to have the piston bolt reinstalled, carefully wrap the piston to protect it. It is not ok if the seal in the middle gets banged up at all.
Dang...unbelievable. You sir are a God send. I just finished posting a ticket with Reliable and I return here to find the answer to all my questions. Bless you. R
Success! Cylinder is back on and not leaking - so far One last question: What is the secret for installing these: What a total PIA they are. I tried pretty much all the tricks I have and ran out of daylight. Thank you all again. R
I have 2 different pairs. This one is the best, in my opinion. The lower right hand pic shows the little dimple in the face. The ends of the lock ring go in the dimple. Regardless, you are correct, these locks are a pain in the.... Wilde 9" Right Angle 90 Degree Lock Ring Pliers Snap Retaining Satin Finish USA 85432084729 | eBay View all Wilde Ring Pliers HERE. A 90 degree Right angle tip for hard to reach areas. To top it off these pliers will have the smoothest spring back action of any Lock Spring pliers you have used and proudly made in the USA! www.ebay.com
BTW, congrats on your first major hydraulic repair!
It was quite a learning experience. And I was able to do it without any help -- except for AIS. But now that I know how they did it -- using heat -- I may be able to handle the next one on my own. Cylinder rods are heavy I'm currently shopping for snap ring pliers (thanks for the tip) and different style snap rings...hah!
But now that I know how they did it -- using heat See post #2 back when you started. Heat and long bars are you friend. Congratulations, it wasn't rocket science after all, was it? Joe H
@Joe H I do remember. Their (AIS) equipment might be a little more sophisticated and they probably brought more heat than I can, but I am persistent. I do have to pay my respects to AIS though. They quoted me a price of $180 for an hours worth of their time. But when I went to pick it up, they waved me out with no charge. I did however go back to the tech guy who did the work and gave him $20.
I have the same spreader pliers that Swetz has for these type c-clips but I have sometimes started one end and taped it into the groove by following around it with a hammer or punch. Where are these used on your machine? My bucket cylinder pins have flat covers that prevent a pin from falling out.
On either side of the base of the cylinder rod base ...
Those are easy! Start one side in the grove, take a flat tip screwdriver and work yourself around until the thing pops itself all the way on.
Yup then when get it about two thirds on it goes flying and you spend 10 minutes trying to find it. LOL
Funny you should say that...I now have my metal detector stationed inside the The Beast...
Or worse yet, It hits you in the eye and you need to go to the hospital Dumb design...It does work once they are in tho.
My bucket pins are made different. They have a flat groove about a quarter inch wide a metal band fits in. Under the band is a hole a loose fitting pin is in and the band prevents the pin from falling out.
Hmmm...sounds like a tractor-style clevis pin. Better design and much easier to remove and install.
These things suck too. Maybe worse than the snap ring!
I can get these on and off pretty easy with a couple of thin blade screwdrivers.
This one behind the front loader prop rod took me about an hour to get off. It was a real PITA!
Yikes! Item 10 in your illustration is different than what I pictured. I was thinking more like this
Yeahhhhhh that does happen on occasion.
Just wanted to put a bow on this one... I got the tools from eBay and the installation could not have been simpler....sorry if there ae typos cuz I do not have my glasses on. Again, I am so very grateful for your help.. Thank you. R
Thanks for the follow-up! We try to help a lot of people on this forum. Many of the people just disappear. For the people trying to help, it always nags them...did it get fixed or not. Glad you reported back, and were successful!
See, not rocket science. And nothing wrong with buying new tools either. Joe H