I have a number of Budd equipped vehicles:a dumptruck and two equipment trailers. Always concerned about wheels coming loose so I like to check them periodically. Seems to me that to do this right one has to check inner nut as well as outer nut tightness. To do this one has to loosen off outer nut.Invariably it seems at least some of the outer nuts are stuck to the inner nut and require additional measures to get them loose.ie heat.Usually I do this all by hand but I recently upgraded my air 3/4 drive so thought I d give that a go. Didnt go so well. On 3 nuts they came slowly off and I thought all was fine and kept rattling but in fact the outer nut was seized on the inner(after rotating a few turns alone),and it was turning both. Impossible I would have thought because inner nut will come up tight against the inner wheel. Wrong.It pushed the stud backward out of the hub. On realizing something was amiss I removed both wheels and sure enough theres the stud just poking out of the hub/brakedrum .At first I thought they were snapped off and in figuring out that they werent,I inadvertently pushed them back whereupon they dropped into the brakedrum!So off comes the hub and drum. etc etc. See title. Anyone have any good procedures for this?Im actually thinking of buying a bunch of outer nuts and kind of doublenutting the exposed threads of the inner nuts,sort of like having deep nuts on a pickup so the threads stay clean.
After awhile you can tell if the nuts comeing off. If the outer nut dosent spin free in a second or two you know there is a problem so you lossen up the rest. Make sure you use antiseas on the outer nuts and replace any thing that is corroded. I dont think you have room fur a inside nut. This set up has been used for over a hundred years and is very relyable.
At least you were checking the nuts it usually happens when your changing a flat middle of the night in a snowstorm and had only thrown a board under the inside tire to jack it up (; If the inner starts coming with I put the two on each side of it back on sometimes works but also can push that stud in So the other way is to let the inner come with the outside wheel and cut them off when you get the wheel off Of course you never start on a Budd wheel without having new inner and outer nuts available in case one or more get boogered it can be a frustrating experience if too many come off with the outer Im known to toss it in the I'll get to it later pile and use a different wheel Also I have never rechecked the inner nuts wonder what the general consensus on that is
my idea on the double nuts was just to cover the threads. theres around 4 threads past the first nut that the doubler could catch on.wonder what the downside of this
Rule in our shop all wheel stud threads Hub Pilot or Stud Pilot sprayed with WD40 before gunning off. On stud pilot Anti-Seize should always be used on the stud for inner nut and on the inner nut for the outer nut. Makes life a bunch easier. As far as double nutting the outer wheel just spray the nuts down with penetrating oil before removing. DOT sees extra nuts they might start asking too many questions.
Get a pork chop and a square socket. If the outer comes with the inner, place the pork chop and run the inner tight, that will usually knock the outer loose as well. The downside, it tears the hell outta Alcoas and other premium wheels. Throw on steelies without a second thought
I'll be darned, someone that does something the same way I do. LoL I always give lug studs a little spray of WD-40. It reduces friction that causes galled threads and wear by running the lug nuts on/off, plus it helps overcome friction that would cause a false tightening torque of the lug nuts. And Anti-Seize, if it don't get Loktite it gets Never Seize.
I always got a laugh out of some of the threads on this forum about not lubricating lug nuts on a wheel . They never had to change one on the road .
Pretty much as the others said. We put a spot of anti seize on the studs and outer threads of the inner nuts before assembly. Most 3/4 guns are not up to the task. Check them with a torque wrench once in a while just to see how your impact is doing. We are using a 1 inch CP and know when the compressor cuts on to stop. After that they will not be tight enough. Also ran into problems with rust streaks and customer compliants. Finally figured out the coating was gone from the nuts. The surface rust from the nuts was streaking the rims. They were not loose. Do this to retighten them. Loosen all the outer nuts except one on the top and one on the bottom. Then tighten those inner nuts followed by the outer nuts. Then do the last two. Don't even have to jack them up unless you suspect a bad problem.
One thing I didn't mention was the power of the newer 1" guns. There ok for hub pilot studs which are larger and can take the torque but the small stud on stud pilot the high power guns will stretch and strip the studs if not careful and you don't know when enough is enough.
Can't go wrong with a little anti-seize
I use it on battery terminals to stop corrosion
just don't get any lube or antisieze on the ball seat (taper) . the old rule of thumb- use sparingly. do not slather it on. use the low end of the torque spec to account for the lubed threads.
You mean the tire shop torque wrench? They are only supposed to be 450-500 ft-lbs. But Bubba down at the tire store turns his inch gun up to 11 and tightens until the air compressor can't keep up. It must be in the tire shop training manual somewhere. They all do it the same way.
I've seen studs after those guys hit em. If there are threads left, often times they look like an hourglass.
How else are you supposed to pull the inner nut through the rim?
Are you talking about anti-seize or the chop?
The anti seize on the tapered seat. Helps to ruin the wheel when you get the guy running the gun till it stops. Pulls the nut right through sometimes
PS You also need a 3/4 air hose for your 1" air gun. 1/2 " air hose won't work any good.
I have a good Ingersoll tire gun, works just fine on 1/2" hose (50' and 175 psi) When I reinstall wheels I use an older Bluepoint AT750 3/4' gun on a 3/8" hose and my torque wrench tells me it's more than enough. Click, Click at 450 LB FT. It's never missed a lick in 20 years. Most guys with a 1" gun over tighten the pizz out of budd nuts. Again... I check with a torque wrench.
Most guns are rated at 90 psi inlet, so with 175 psi at the front end of the hose it might just be dropping to 90 by the time it gets there...or more... When I worked on trucks I had a similar setup, only 140 not 175. Never ran into any difficulty but just our own stuff which was well taken care of.
I run a 1" gun everyday. A two second blast is all that is needed after the nut makes contact. Especially with hub pilot studs and nuts. I have too many axles and wheel ends to chase them with a torque wrench.
Well, whatever the drop is... It works and I doubt my 3/4" torque wrench lies. I don't run a tire shop so I have the luxury of actually checking every nut I put on. No argument here. Never had a customer lose a wheel.
My largest local shop now hand checks every nut with a break over torque wrench. Unfortunately, it breaks over on every nut before the nut moves. But, they also got in a truck tire mounting machine. No more sledgehammers and bars, yay.
Are they aware how the torque wrench is supposed to work? What is it set to? Is its calibration ever checked? Is tension released when not using it? I can guess the answers to these questions.