Hey, Here is my deal....I've only operated a loader/backhoe once in my life...now I am planning on buying one and starting my own business. I currently make my money by flying airplanes but I've always wanted to operate heavy equipment so I am gonna give it a shot......Now I've been looking around for a used rig and I got a guy who has been super helpful. He has a Cat 420D with all the options, auto shift,q/c front and rear, ride control,AC, everything...its in great shape. But it has 4500 HRs. He wants 60 G taxes incl. Now I've also been looking on sites like richie bros. And iron planet....there seems to be a lot better deals there but these being auction sites I am a little weary. Can u guys give me some insight on how much this CAT is worth??? I like Cat equipment so I would like to stick with that. Am I insane for just going out on a limb and buying my own backhoe and trying to make money with it? When I've got no experience? Rampking
I paid 40 for my 420Dit two years ago from Ziegler....been a very good unit. And as far as being insane, i don't know,,lol it probably helps some. But you better have work lined up ahead of time, just don't go out and think its gonna come to you. Tractor backhoe's are everywhere so you probably gonna have competition... Good luck, Gramps
60 K is a rip. I own a 420D, with 2,000 hours, all the option including wain roy swinger on the stick, cat wanted to give me 35K 3 years ago. stick to flying. this is a dirty business. lol.
Dont walk away, run! I would be hard pressed to give the guy 30k for that set up. There is a member on here that paid 75k for a new one this spring i believe... Save yourself alot of headaches and take a job in the construction industry for a year or so before you jump in with your life savings invested.
I was thinking the same thing about it being a rip off....I am gonna try for something in Montreal on richie bros. Auction.....what's the going rate to hire a hoe in your guys area.....here its from 75 to 95 an hour. Man I gotta give it a go, I've always wanted to and I am so sick of flying.
First of all Welcome to the Forums rampking! The members have given you some very good advice and insight on the excavation/construction business. Not one to try and squash someones dreams, I'll be gentle. A machine that costs $60K and will only bring $75-95 per hour is a tough one to make any money with, especially with 4500 hours. So I agree with the others, run don't walk away from that machine. A backhoe with 4500 hours is not going to fall apart on you (unless it's been neglected and abused) but it will nickel and dime you to non-profitability. Hoses, seals, sending units, pins and bushings, etc, etc will fail and always at the wrong time. Something about that Murphy guy and his laws. ointhead Speaking of the business side (you will need several hats to wear in this business), I don't know what your local market conditions are so there may be a lot of work going on. Not so much going on in the country south of you. There are very good, seasoned excavators that are sitting home 2-3 days out of the week, that's if they are lucky to be working the other 2-3 days. That's tough competition to be going against with no experience - hungry guys with knowledge and experience. In my neck of the woods - experience, longevity, reputation and who you know in the business is the difference between survival and flipping burgers to pay the mortgage. Have you studied the market in your area to see what service is needed? There may be a hole in the market that no one is filling that might be a nice niche and it may be in a totally different direction than what you looking into. Also don't forget - estimating, project management, licenses, overhead, insurance, contracts, maintenance and repairs. I don't want to rain on your parade just prepare you for what the business is like. Good luck!
60K is too much, you can get an E model with under 2000 hours for 70K-80K. A neighbour has an older JCB for use on his property and has a contract with the local township to clear snow in the winter. Its a nice little side job to make some extra cash but not enough to live on.
I don't plan on making a living off it right away, I was gonna stay flying and take everything I make with the tractor and pay it off. Then get an idea if I could make a go of it, if not well I own my own tractor!! The market in St. John's, Canada is through the roof, we have alot of offshore oil business here and housing developments are everywhere, and we do get quite a bit of snow here in the winter timeso snow clearing is an option. I am gonna continue to shop around, when I find something I'll let you know. Thanks for the help, I greatly appreciate it. So have any of you used ritchie bros website? Whats your thoughts? Rampking
I think you kinda crazy. Not to want run heavy equipment, because yeah it can be a lot of fun. But the grass is always greener on the other side, I can think of a few people stuck in the dirt that would rather be making money in the air. I agree with previous comments, go to work for someone else. Cut your flying down to 3-4 days a week and go to work for a dirt contractor for a couple days a week. But there's a very good chance with no prior experience you will be stuck with a shovel, but still good experience you would be surprised how much you can learn by watching a good operator. I have no idea how it works up north, but here the state requires you to prove 4 years full time experience to qualify for you contractors license. Have you considered buying a cheaper machine with your own chunk of land just to play on? That would give you experience and give you a small idea of what your jumping into.
I did the same thing. 15 years ago. I only paid 23K though. I also still have my day job. Actually, I encourage you to go for it. But, like others have said, don't spend 60 grand. You should do more research, and more shopping, and try to find something in the low $30's or even the $20's. You'll feel a lot better, when you have no work for it for awhile. I have A 580K phase 3, with 4 wheel drive. Shes 21 now, but treats me great. And no, I don't have all the comforts, like a cab, extendahoe, or air. But, I don't stress out either, when it sits for a couple of weeks.
Thanks guys, yeah the plan is to definitly keep the day job. Just always wanted a tractor...the only thing I am worried about with going cheaper is that most of the machines are about 8000 hrs or more...but I can totally understand what u mean about the bills...I will keep looking.
I recently bought a CASE 580L at a price that is a fraction of what you mention. It has low hours but other issues, mostly cosmetic. I could have bought spares like it for the price you mention. I could spend half again what I paid for it on improvements and still come in on this level. I also have limited experience with heavy equipment so I read a lot of threads and talked to a lot of people about this choice. A lot of the advice you will hear is in the vein of a Ford vs Chevy debate. You have to have a good information filter. Keep looking and look at backhoes and learn the wear points on them. Take some cardboard with you and crawl up under the backhoes and look some more. Look at how they are built and what you have to take apart to get to wear points and problem items. Learn tests for hydraulics and transmissions and wear in pins, steering, etc. Price some parts and manuals, etc. If you figure out how to make a backhoe pay for itself, please share that information.
Hey everyone, I have found a nice 420E 2007 with 2400 hours in really good shape, the only thing is it doesn't have aux hyd up front,I wanted to have an articulating snow plow blade for it, Is there any other options for hooking up an articulating blade without aux hyd up front??? King
I was at a local auction yesterday Cat 420D 2400 hrs 4x4 rops sold for $26000 two 310J with 3200 hrs full cab 4x4 sold for $32000 appease. If you look there are great deals out there.
hey , im the new guy on the block... love the site , just my 2 cents - run dont walk from that machine. i just bought a 580 super k with cab 4wd and ex hoe with 4800 hrs and good rubber all around for 10k and the only thing that dont work is the front blinkers i think its a step up from my old 580c
Now that is a steel!!!!!!
I use a 12' pusher on my 580L that does ten times the work as a plow.
Front Blinkers not working?Man you got ripped off.Jusk kidding that was a great price.
stay away from scatpiller and jonh deere they are junk!!!!!!!!!!!!
Would you care to share your knowledge of why Cat and Deere backhoes are junk?:cool2
better not
Yes, you better, you posted in pubic forum, you threw it out there, you better back it up.
Do tell, I for one would like to know why a 420D is junk. I have one I bought new in '03 and still have today. In fact I was using it today to push up a little topsoil. Now the machine has it's faults, as all machines do but overall it's been a good machine. I do have my list of things I would change on the machine if I could but there is no machine I have ever owned that didn't. So I guess now it's time that you back up what you have been yappin' about all over the board - that everything that is not Yanmar is junk. I for one would like to hear your first hand experiences.:cool2
cause they aren't Cases?................................ /
I bought a backhoe and did the sink or swim business plan. I had over 10 years experience working backhoes every day when I started though. IMO the TLB market is made with exceptional skill. They are very versatile machines so this opens a lot of opportunity but I can't see why someone would hire you to do the work when you can't do a better job than the customer could if they rented a machine and did it themselves. A backhoe O/O makes it because he can operate that rig in a way that makes the customer more money than they could make if they tried it themselves. The customer has to need your EXPERTISE and it may take a while to get it. Once you have it, it still takes a while to get noticed and build your customer base. You might have more success with contracting small jobs instead of starting out with hourly operated rentals. This way it usually does not adversly affect the customer, unless it delays the project, if you take longer than normal to do the job. This still may be a tough sell if you don't have any experience. Even if you can get your foot in the door it will take some time to become efficient and skilled at the construction work let alone the machine operation. There is a guy in my market that is in the same situation as you. He is primarily a pilot. He has a 10 wheel dump truck and an older Case TLB. I occasionally use him when I need extra dump trucks. He is pretty hungry for dirt work. Don't forget that, at least in the (2) markets that I have been in business in, it will be essential to have your own way to move the machine around. Sorry to be so negative. It is a hard row to hoe (get the pun??) even if you have skills. I own a Cat 416 C that has over 12,000 hours on it. I never experienced "nickel and dime" on that machine. Some hoses are still OEM. If I was buying a used machine though, I would prefer to find one with low hours ( < 2,000 hours). If you do take the plunge I wish you well.
just a quick word to say there are some good deals out there. i pkd up a 93 sk 4x4 extenda hoe for $1500.00 .was stolen and recoverd after 11 years .had rod through block .pkd up good used motor for $3000.00 with all miner repairs have around 6 to 6500.00 total invested . by the way wonderful site lots useful info thanks .
Maybe yanmarman can't reply. He may be in jail for insurance fraud. It wouldn't surprise me when he gives out this kind of advice he posted in another thread. (Quote) toolking set it on fire and collect insurance money then buy a yanmar excavator you;ll be glad give one a try and you;ll see. had jd and cat before yanmar they are total junk (Quote)
His mom had to take him to his first day of jr. high.
Thanks for the replies guys, I am taking everything you all have to say and really doing some serious thinking about it all. I do have several snow clearing contracts all ready lined up. It helps to have friends with businesses. I am looking at two 420E's now on ritchie bros. Trhe auction is fairly soon. If I can get one for a decent price I am going at it. If it goes for more then what I am comfortable with then I'll keep dreaming. Thanks again guys King
Follow your gut feelings.
Hey guys, So just wondering, if I have no Q/C or an aux hyd on the front end, is there any options for an articulating snow blade??? King
I could see how a couple of t's and electric solenoid valves could be fitted fairly cleanly to existing lines toward the front of the machine - run the wires back to the loader joystick. Then just use the bucket dump circuit.
I think you would better off and save money in the long run to find a machine that has a QC and hyd lines to the front. There is a lot of yellow iron out there. A factory set-up will give you better service over the long haul IMHO.
In addition to what CM said you will also save considerable money, if you find one that is already equipped with aux. to the front, compared to retro-fitting with like kind components.
All IT machines are plumbed with aux hoses and electrical but only a few ST machines are.
My 420D is an IT. Really good set up, although I only use it to swap from bucket to forks occasionally, never used the electric connection.
The ITs are good machine, the ones we sell are more expensive than the STs and are normally ordered with all the options like auto shift etc. The STs are normally basic machines and are ordered with only the basic options to keep the cost down. I have only seen the electrical plug used with brooms.
The one attachment I would really like to have. Unfortunately, they are very pricey. I am waiting for one to come along either auction or private sale that can be bought reasonable.
How is it that you know so much when, according to your sig., you are always in a van down by the river.
His van is in a Cat dealers parking lot, down by the river.