Brand new here, my background is 24+ years as an Automotive Warrant Officer for the US Army, and Construction Equipment Repairer before that. Anticipating retirement in the next few years I started a new business this year doing septic systems mainly leech field and setting plastic tanks, concrete set by company, some land clearing, mowing, light grading etc... looking to buy a new excavator not really a need at the moment I could rent for a while but at the point of doing 4 days of work a month it would only make sense to buy. Plus I’d use it around my land a good bit. Specifically weighing the options of 2 machines with a third being compared on the side lol. My weight is restricted to 12050lbs trailer capacity, otherwise all options are still on the table. Both Bobcat and Yanmar sales seem really engaged so far. Bobcat E42R2 with cab, long arm, thumb, angle blade, 16” toothed bucket, 36” smooth, and ripper. My quote was $62,895 if I add the extended warranty to take it to a 5yr 3000hr full warranty it would bring me to around $66k. Yanmar VIO50-6a cab, thumb, angle blade, 18” and 36” bucket quoted at $60865. 4yr 4000hr warranty standard Yanmar SV40 with same options but 6way blade. $58943 Weighing out pros and cons So far spec wise only. Power goes to Bobcat Comfort probably goes to Bobcat (radio, display, etc) Reach goes to Yanmar Hyd Aux goes to Yanmar Tail swing Bobcat 12.8in, 0 for Yanmar Overall price is less with Yanmar Resale isn’t anticipated but still a concern. Throw any thoughts, concerns, insights, questions etc out there! Thanks Josh
Parts and service are a large part of the equation.
Welcome to the Forums JJy! X2 on the parts and service so the question is - How far away from you are both dealers? How large are the dealers? Does any of the two dealers have a rental department? How large is their parts department and how much do they keep in stock? A very large dealer may give you the cold shoulder and a very small dealer may lack parts and service availability. The dealer having a rental department offers two things - a loaner if you machine goes down under warranty and additional equipment at your disposal when you need a different machine for a job. I don't think you can go wrong with either of the 3 brands. Kubota and Yanmar would be my final 2 IMO. Good luck!
I have a 2019 Bobcat E42 and I'm quite pleased with it and have a good local dealer. Consider the entire ownership package - good dealer, good equipment.
Both dealerships are about 40miles away, I’ve not been to the Vermeer dealership to check it out, I do know they have no Yanmars in stock so I’m guessing they do not have a rental fleet either. Bobcat on the other hand is a pretty good size dealership with rental so that may be another plus for Bobcat. There is a Kubota dealership 20miles or so but I’ve not checked their prices yet, I looked on the website and assumed they were more expensive than Bobcat.
Does the tailswing of the E42 limit you on any jobs, the only place I could see it being a problem for me would be French Drains, or in the woods if I wasn’t paying attention.
I've never had an issue with the tailswing on my e42, and I've got an extra counterweight that adds 6".
It's a consideration on some kinds of work. General mini work, I can handle having a tail out there. I dig for plumbers inside the building footprint, and get right up against pipes, columns, other people's stuff. I can't deal with a tail in my particular situation. I really value the zero thing.
That is true, it all depends on what you do. I've got a tiltrotator and swing boom that keeps me out of trouble in tight spaces. Really depends on the application. If you're digging up against walls all day long, get a zero swing. If you're lifting heavy stuff, a conventional will typically lift more than a zero swing of equal weight.
Yes a thousand times on the bigger machines especially. The old 120 with a butt is so much better balanced than a similar big footed no butt machine.
what other dealers are near you. Parts and service are a large part of the equation i would go with 0= swing, i do a lot of odd jobs /trenching / grading / mowing / brush clearing / and im glad i have 0-swing , some of the jobs would be undoable other wize
As far as dealerships with rental fleets it would be between John Deere, Takeuchi, Bobcat, Case.
I have the optional 500 pound counterweight on the butt of mine also, however my use of the E42 is general ranch stuff. My priority was good lift capability especially with the boom over the side. The tail swing has never been an issue for me. The Bobcat E50 is zero swing and incrementally a larger machine over my E42.
That seems like a lot for that size mini ex. Maybe that is what they go for now, but it seems high. Yanmar makes a really good mini ex as well.
I’ve debated going down a size to the 3.5-4t class but with those it seems over the side stability drops off pretty quickly and hydraulic aux flow for running mowers and such. I really think the majority of my business will be digging leech fields, ditches, driveway work, compared to mowing/land clearing. Do you think the smaller machine would better suit my needs? As with just about anyone I like the thought of more power, but don’t really need overkill. I’ve dug with a couple 26’s and 22hp E35, and I know they could do the job just a bit slower, and not sure about their ability to run a mower.
Forgot to thank you for your military service. I was in the USAF for one enlistment. Anyway I wanted to comment about your attachments and configuration. I was torn between an angle blade or just the straight blade. I do quite a bit of grading with the blade and sometimes I wish I could angle my straight blade but from what I've read the angle blade doesn't have the 'push' capability of the straight blade. I have no idea if this would be a limitation or not. You absolutely do want the thumb - for me it's incredibly useful to move rocks, stumps, trees, etc. My E42 with the extra 500 pound butt weight can lift 4500 pounds three or four feet off the ground and out five or six feet or so. I have the ripper which is probably my least used implement because I don't be a lot of trenching. If you will be doing mostly digging you will find it useful. I did use the ripper to bury coax cable a few inches underground, I ripped going in reverse. The 'trench' was quite sloppy but it was fine for my need. My 12" tooth bucket is my go-to bucket most of the time when I'm trenching/general digging/and picking up heavy loads. It weighs less than the larger buckets The 24" tooth bucket is a good size for large excavations which I rarely do so it sits most of the time. My last attachment is a 40" grading (no teeth) bucket, it gets a lot of use around the ranch since I'm making swales to control runoff. I don't think you mentioned a pin grabber, Bobcat calls it X-Change or something like that. Incredibly useful option, I've thanked myself a thousand times for selecting that option when I spec'd out my E42.
Regarding size, we asked and answered that question this summer. For my work, the 35 was better. I can wring a lot out of it if need be, and you can always rent upward for a particular job. Keep that in mind. I was going to be pushing the axles and tires on my 12K trailer with a 50. It's almost a foot wider, and that becomes a liability now and again with my work.
Does your thumb get in the way digging with the 12” bucket, that’s the only reason I’m looking at a 16”. Lines from the house to the tank will be 4” schedule 40 so really anything over 12” is overkill.
Running a mower requires strong GPM and PSI at the aux. to be productive. Also enough machine to stabilize the mower at full articulation. I have a Rock Hound mower on mine, it is a bigger unit and 6 ton machine, it is a good mower. Typically the hyd. specs improve considerably as you step up in size and of course they can lift more. I would select the mower you want, then you know what GPM and PSI you need, as well as the weight of the attachment and find an excavator that meets those needs. I think your probably in the right weight class in a 45ish size. Everyone is different, but I prefer running a 2' as a primary dirt bucket. Putting in 4" PVC with a small bucket requires exact cutting, which is easy when the runs are straight, not so much when changing direction. The 2' allows for the ability to manipulate the pipe easier on hook ups. Just my experience.
Very true...
tape measure the thumb pins on the machines you are shopping. That will tell you what will fit and what you will have to widen out for deeper trenches. Keep in mind a 12" bucket removes a miserably small amount of dirt per pass. It might well minimize the disturbance, but there is an associated cost to it. In sticky materials, it is very difficult to keep clean. Do you think you will be fine grading or cleaning the ditch in any way? Try to turn around in a 12" trench. I have an 18" and 24", and for ditches that require a precision grade, the 18" is about minimum.
I won’t need a big mower, just want to be able to do my creek banks and part of my hillside mostly because I despise yellow jackets, one more reason I want a cab! Two summers ago I hit 7 nests on a rented open cab dozer... one within the first 15min of operation! It’s a good thing I can react calmly under horrible circumstances lol so many bees, looked like yellow water flowing out of the ground!
My 36” trenches will have to be level, the line from the house will be about a 2% grade, so there could be some shovel work but I’d rather make the excavator do most of it so that would still be a + for a bit bigger bucket.
The excavator does ALL of it, but things roll back in. You knock rocks in while setting the pipe, etc. With a 12" dug trench, it gets really annoying The little trenches are great for poly and cable runs that just don't care so much.
Exactly, that combined with wet material, getting the bucket to clean out is a problem. You spend more of your time shaking the bucket, than digging.
go with 16 in bucket , i was putting field drain pipe about 4 ft deep with 18 in bucket thru damp top soil and clay i could not keep bucket clean , some of it dug with the bucket packed full of dirt it not stay clean
Look at a kx057 kubota - very powerful and smooth machines. yanmar are very unbalanced too
Have you weighted what it's lifted? Find it really hard to believe a 4 ton machine can lift 4500lbs. My 6 ton with bucket on can lift 3200lbs at the very most.
4500lbs. does seem high for a 4 ton machine. Former neighbor had all he could handle with a 3000lb. wrecking ball on a 3/4yd. 16 ton machine, mind you that was swinging the stick in and out with the bucket still on.
I had a 2017 E42 cab with extendible arm and angle blade. Also added the extra counterweight. Very capable and reliable machine, but have to admit the extra counterweight got in the way a few times in the woods. I’m doing primarily woods work...clearing, stump pulling etc. I recently upgraded to an E50 cab, standard arm, fixed blade. I wanted increased digging and lifting capacity and like the zero tail swing. Decided as time goes on the angle blade and extendible arm were potential maintenance items I didn’t want to deal with. Both were convenient but certainly not deal breakers. I’ve got less than 20 hours on the e50, but so far, so good. It is a more formidable machine...feels much bigger. Dealer support was a big deal for me. In my area, I could have went Bobcat, Deere, or Cat. I liked Bobcat best of those three. Our Kubota dealer seems so-so. Only handles the excavators, not any other Kubota construction equipment. The other players aren’t well represented in my area. My Bobcat dealer and salesman have treated me first class
The new E42 weighs close to 11k rated at 4700lb lift with the long arm that’s at 120” out and ground level according to the specs?
That is what the spec sheet says. Even over the blade, that is pretty impressive. Weighted down like that it is essentially a 5 ton machine, but still impressive.
Yea that's really impressive. I know my 6 ton unless the boom is most of the way up, it won't even pick up 3000lbs, not a chance it would pickup 4700lbs 120" out and not from tipping just doesn't have the power. If you had something perfect in the bucket you could lift easier as I find the biggest limitation is running out of height with the stick tucked in, but still no way would it do that weight. Funny I looked at the specs for my machine and at 6.6' out is says it will pickup 5700lbs, at 120" out ground level it's 3400lbs which I would say is exactly right. So clearly the ratings are way out of wack.
Looking at some fo Yanmar’s lifting specs there are certain heights that the capacity drops drastically then goes back up as you get higher. I could see that as an interesting lesson to learn, you pick up 1500lbs at full extension and 9ft off the ground then at 8ft your tipping load drops to 1100lbs better hurry down lol.
Most of the chart weirdness is due to geometry and hydraulic limitations, not tipping forces. Just like your arm, there are awkward places where you just don't get as much power.
That’s what I was looking at too, the length of the arm, the length of the boom, counterweight, width of the tracks, so much math has to go into these things! I’m glad I’m just diggin holes!
I have the Yanmar VIO55a I didn't like the zero tail swing at first coming out of a Cat 320 the cab seemed cramped and it like your setting up to high. I have gotten use to the cab and its not to bad. If your used to a full size machine I guess all the mini's are going to take some getting use to. The zero tail swing has came in quite handy several times. As far as the aux hydraulics on the Yanmar for running a brush cutter you will not like them. The factory turns down the pressure from around 3k psi to maybe 1800psi to keep from bending the thumb cylinder. You can change it but it requires removing the floor pan and manually turning up the pressure. Not something you want to do every time you hook up to the mower. I have talked to Yanmar about this several times. They said they were coming out with dedicated circuit for the aux hydraulics on the new machines. Not sure if the 2020 have this yet or not. This is my biggest complaint on my Yanmar. Other than that I love it. I have a RUT brush cutter and I use it. It's just not going to operate as intended. I really like the angle blade. Comes in handy. I run a 18" 24" 36" digging buckets and a 48" tilting grading bucket. I have a ripper I use for stumping. Not sure about the difference between the 50 and the 55 but I believe the 55 just has a turbo. It's quite a load with a few extra buckets on the trailer. I use a 10 Ton trailer and pull with a single axle dump truck.
Re aux hydraulics, I’ve been very happy with Bobcat, both in flow and pressure. I run a 30” Eterra flail mower that works very well with the Bobcat hydraulics. No sure how other brands are set up, but on my e42 the first hyd circuit controls the thumb and boom swing with a selectable toggle switch on the LH console and the operation switch on LH joystick. The second hyd circuit ran the extendible arm thru aux connections. To run my mower I had to manually pin the arm retracted, unhook the arm hydraulics and attach the mower. Three different flow rates were available via the control screen. Momentary and continuous flow switches were on RH joystick. My mower has saddle grapple teeth that line up with my thumb so obviously want both circuits to be active. My e50 and I assume all R4 excavators has an arm mounted diverter valve to route flow to either the thumb or aux hyd connections. With my mower setup, I wanted both the mower and thumb active so I ordered an additional hyd circuit. So I have thumb and boom control on LH joystick with a selection switch to go back and forth right on the joystick. Nice improvement from the e42. I have momentary and continuous control for the second hydraulic circuit on the RH joystick and there is extensive setup for flow in the touch screen. You can now fine tune hydraulic parameters and save them per attachment via the touch screen. Just pick the attachment you’re using from the menu and all the settings are already there. Very nice. The diverter valve is still on the machine so if I ever have an attachment that needs 2 hyd circuits, I’m all set.
That is where having the bells and whistles come in handy. Being able to adjust hyd setting from a touch screen. I looked at Cat Takeuchi and Bobcat but they were close to 10k more for the same size machine. But if I had known about the aux set up, before I had purchased the Yanmar and bought 11k worth of attachments. I would have spent the extra 10k and went with something else. I'm not trying to hate on Yanmar. I still like my VIO55 for everything else, except for running the brush cutter.
This info helps a lot, I did see where Yanmar is offering a 2nd Aux Hydraulics but I’d assume you would still have to adjust everything the same as you described.
If you wouldn’t mind sharing what did the E50 run price wise setup like yours?
Which Rut brush cutter do you have, been debating theirs or a flail? Thanks
Looking at the specs of the E42 long arm sure are impressive compared to my Takeuchi TB153FR. More digging force, hp, bigger fuel tank, and weights about 3,000lbs less. I'm guessing a fair amount of the lower weight is due to the side to side boom on the 153, it's not a light setup. It gives up 5 gpm aux flow, about a foot of reach and digging depth but that's pretty small. I do wonder though even if you factor in the boom weight difference, that's still like 2,000lbs less weight, it would have to be more tippy I wonder if it performs the way the specs say and would be capable of out digging the 153. I never looked at the counterweight swing, but being 6" narrow track stance i'm guessing the counter weight swing is same as the 153. If I was going to replace my mini ex i'd definitely be going down in size to something like that. Loosing 3,000lbs make it easy to haul with CTL behind a pickup which I can't do now. But it only has 4500 hours on it and I plan to keep it for a long long time yet.
It the 2020 models have the 2nd aux hydraulics! You'll be good to go! I wasn't sure when they were going to have it in production. That would be a game changer for sure. The teck I talked to said it was going to be for higher flow attachments, like mowers and mulching heads.
I got the standard cutter I believe it's 36" It was around $2700 The pictures on there website shows it to have a gear box, but they are direct drive now. Build quality is good. For the price I don't think you can beat them!
The specs on the new Takeuchi 257 which is the replacement for the 153, specs better. I honestly don't see how the BC E42 can lift that much. The 153 has a much closer to center of gravity design than does any typical swing boom mini ex. I have never seen a swing boom of equal size out lift a 153. I would be really surprised if a lighter swing boom machine could out lift it. I know it says it can, I just would have to see it to believe it.
Answering two questions here - the thumb has never been in the way when digging. The 4500 pound lift capacity is right out my E42 manual for the standard arm with counterweight, I don't remember the exact distances. My E42 operating weight is right around 5 tons.
Yea I don't get how the specs are possible. The hydraulics on my machine are not weak, the limiting factor on most things is tipping, it has no problem tipping the machine picking up something heavy over the front if the blade isn't down. I don't see how weighing 3000lbs less you would have any chance of even picking up the same weight unless you had that counterweight out another 1' or 2' which it doesn't. I've only ran 8 ton machines, or a bobcat E24 so no comparison.
The Tak TB250-2 has more lift capacity than the E42 by a little and around the same weight. I’ve not got to try the E42 to grab a full bucket and sling it around yet, but the ride was much smoother and more stable than the E35’s I’ve ran.
We had a deere 35D that i put almost 4000 hours on and i loved that machine. It had the long stick and the extra counter weight. My boss sold it this spring and picked up a kubota u55-4 and i absolutely hate the machine. I find the 5.5 ton class silly. I dont think the reach is even a foot more then the 35. We also have a takeuchi tb180fr and i will take that pretty muchanywhere the 55 will go and it will do a much faster. I find the 55 is just kind of a funny in between size.
You need to compare apples to apples when looking at breakout, lift, etc. In my E42 manual there's several charts listing specs for various machine combinations - long arm, standard arm with/without counterweight, long arm with/without counterweight, lift capacity with blade down, lifting over the side with and without counterweight, lifting fully extended etc., etc.
I’ve been comparing every apple out there lol... lift capacity is just one small piece of the apple pie. There are things I like about each, right now I’m leaning more towards the E42, because of the dealer support I know I’ll get. My best friend bought an E-35 and Track Loader and they have treated him great! Vermeer has been really responsive with quotes and questions about the Yanmar but when it comes to service when something goes wrong I kind of figure I’d be very low on the priority list with all of the mine companies, large construction companies etc... I could be wrong though?
Honestly i would be looking much more at cycle times, bucket force, reach and digging depth then what it can lift. Its a excavator its made for digging and moving dirt its not a crane. My biggest deciding factor would be how comfortable i felt in the cab since i spend thousands of hours in that seat.
Agreed, cab comfort is very high on the list, breakout, reach, depth etc are all important to me, I’d like for this to be the most thought out purchase I’ve made! It’s a lot of money and I’d really like to get it right the first time!
Thats exacly how i feel about it but numbers and just numbers. Demo the machines or even rent them if need be amd spend some hours in the seat. Something can look great on paper but when you figure out your favorite coffe mug does not fit in the cup holder or that your knees hurt after all day because the seat is too low or something stupid those numbers dont look so good anymore.
I can guarantee I will spend time in them before I buy, but the only way I’ll get to try the yanmar would be if I have the dealership find one for me to demo, I’d really hate to have them bring in multiple models for me to choose Bobcat or Takeuchi lol. Specs just narrow the list by ruling out ones that I don’t think will fit my needs. And I’ve learned enough the hard way that when I don’t know something I ask those who do, and there is none better to get a feel of equipment than the guys that sit in them every day. I appreciate everyone’s insight!
Get them to bring them for you to try. Its part of the game. If they want your money make them work for it. Companies spend hours of time making quotes for jobs and dont get the job its the same thing when you demo a machine. Its the name of the game.
I agree lift capacity isn't the only factor, but it is a big one for a lot owners. Mini excavators are used for a lot of different things and the more it can lift, the more you can use it. Setting concrete drains, man holes, and so forth are important because if you do these things, that means lesser chance of having to mob something bigger in to do those jobs. I am all about bucket breakout and reach, both hugely important, but lift capacity is right there as well. I also agree not to buy strictly off a spec sheet for a ton reasons. One example is some of those breakout forces are generated using a bucket you would never likely use to dig but generate good breakout numbers due to a very tight tip radius. So like Don.S states demoing the machine is really important in getting an overall idea of how a machine runs. However at the end of the day, it is up to the buyer to base the decision on what factors mean the most. If the machine can lift a lot, huge proven breakout but the radio location sucks, you have to decide what carries the day. There are a huge number of OEM's all with positives and negatives in their machines. The buyer has to make the informed buying decision on what aspects mean the most to the company using it.
Totally agree and exactly the case for me just before christmas, I was able to set 2 manholes with my 153, had the machine been a tiny bit smaller I would have had to bring the 210 in which is a lot of extra time. The spec sheet is also deceiving, the heaviest parts were about 2500lbs it's at the machines limit to set it and be able to pick it back out of the hole if you need to reposition. I wonder how many employees say the creature comforts are top priority, whereas the people paying for it are about the productivity? My 153 doesn't have the best creature comforts, but it gets the job done extremely well. I just replaced the radio with one that works properly after almost 6 years. Kids these days getting too soft!
This is good advice. If you have not tried them you really won't know much.
Knew a guy that had 6 P&H hoes with 6V-53's in them running 2650 RPM's digging pipeline with hand and foot controls. Be happy with anything from the newer generation. Not a coincidence he wore a hearing aid.
I guess i am a spoiled brat. Sure wouldn't catch me in that for more then 15 minutes. Also wouldn't catch me in a machine for 6 years with no radio.
Mine was about $77k, ordered with with all the options plus a 36” class 4 digging bucket. I got the large touchscreen, Bluetooth radio, heated seat, climate control, extra hydraulics, quick attach. They gave me a good trade in on my e42. I kept all my buckets and attachments.
How do you like the heated seat? Im curious if it would help with the sore back issues. I wanted the heated seat in my snow tractor for that exact reason but the extra cost was out of the question.
Depending on what you're doing a radio can be a distraction and/or not allow you hear when something goes wrong or breaks. General work a radio is OK.
You have a phone right? That's what I use for music if i'm in it for a long time and bored. Do you have a radio if you're working outside? I'm not sure what the big deal is.
Yep. Many times when i'm digging looking for a pipe I open the window and turn off radio so I can hear if bucket touches something. Maybe i'm overly paranoid but no matter what equipment it is until it's warm in the morning especially in the winter radio is off to make sure everything sounds good, and throughout the day here and there I briefly turn it off to make sure no odd sounds. My dump truck doesn't have a radio either.....
Really don’t use it much. My machine sits idle a lot in cold weather. It wouldn’t be a deal breaker for me.
I specifically buy machines without radios. All the small equipment is too damn loud as it is. We give all of our guys a set 3M worktunes. Syncs to the phone if I need to talk to them, and otherwise acts as both hearing protection and headphones. All the guys love them, and we all have Spotify or Audible. As for heated seat, I always forget it's there. After greasing the machine, topping up fuel, checking fluids, and general running around to get the job started, I'm warmed up enough.
Work Tunes are OK but still difficult to hear unusual sounds over the music. I was using some when I ripped the top swing mount of my backhoe. Would have been nice to hear something prior to seeing the boom hanging funny. Break was partly due to a bad design from the factory.
Well thanks to COVID exposure I’m quarantined for a while any other brands I should compare specs on while I wait?
There a lot of online vendors selling conversions for heated seats.
Parts availability is very important. The company I worked for 10 years ago bought a brand new komatsu excavator 200 size. Operator accidentally broke a pipe on boom a couple weeks later. 1st pipe came 3 weeks later, but wrong pipe. 2nd pipe came a couple weeks after that, wrong pipe. 3rd pipe was the right one. Imagine being without machine for 2 months and still paying for it. If your the sole operator you can get lucky. If someone makes a dumb mistake some good operating machines with less parts availability can put you under. Simon
I agree on parts availability, and dealer support, to a certain extent, but that sounds fishy. All the dealers I've ever dealt with will overnight/express ship parts if you're willing to pay for it. If a machine was down for 2 months because of some broken plumbing on the boom, it's because the company didn't care it was down. I would have just got a temp line made up and put it back to work.
Wonder if you relief is hitting too soon on your stick or boom Be interesting to see how your lift changes if you lengthen the chain if your specs are really like that.
Today i was setting ~1000 pound type 30 catch basins inside a building. The 35G with standard arm and counterweight was pretty much at tipping with the bucket rolled out and holding it out flat. I had to do that to get in the door and set them under a 9' ceiling. I had some custom rigging to keep it short, 2' cable chokers to the pins and a 2' with swivel hook. That rolled out perfect, the swivel hook was *just* below the teeth to allow for swiveling.
Yeah lifting capacity is a huge consideration for anyone that does utility work. Boxes, manholes, pipe, fittings, valves, tools...