Hey Ya'll! I am looking at buying a used excavator (ideally) in the 160 size range, to use on the farm and possibly some basements down the line--nothing crazy probably 1-2000 hours or so are what I need out of it. We run skidsteers and minis exclusively so a machine of this size is new frontier for me. Anyways, a buddy of mine recently picked up a volvo EC160CL at an auction and I've been seriously considering it, but would like the advice of this community. It's a 2006 volvo EC160CL with 14-1500 hours on it (Hour meter and computer are within 100 of each other, computer being higher). It's pretty beat up cosmetically, but the machine starts well and is very tight and smooth. I ran it hard for an hour and in 70F temps and it remained cool. it does need a bucket (or this one rebuilt). I do not care as much about the aesthetics as I can pick away at sheet metal and paint, but I am worried about the electronics, as ive heard they can have electrical issues. Here are some of my concerns: 1.) Can hour meters/ computers be tampered with? 2.) Fuel site glass has a crack in it (notice the drips on the tracks) 3.)color of the hydraulic fluid is milky green (see picture) 4.) AC/heat do not work and there is an internal temp sensor code being thrown (SE8706-03). Called dealer and they said it is a $65 part located in the right console, but they did not know if that was what was also causing the blowers not to work. 5.) lights/radio/wipers do not work 6.) lower front glass is missing along with all front glass window seals. 7.) door latch is broken 8.)when tramming, it seemed to lack power turning and on a grade. A little light came on with a guy lifting a barbell over head. It honestly seemed like it was stuck in rabbit mode. and here is the kicker: 9.) i accidentally hit a switch on the left hand console (which my friend later said was a manual/limp mode switch) and the machine is now throwing the following code: Communication failure PSID201-09 and the throttle, auto idle, and any hydraulic function will no longer work. So, with what I have said are any of these issues deal breakers (obviously #9 is if we cant get that issue resolved)? Are all the little electrical issues going to kill me $$$ ? For $34,500, what do you all think? Also, does anyone have the service manuals for this machine? Thanks in advance, -Chris
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Can't speak for US prices but for CAD I would say that's way too high. I wouldn't go close to that thing if it's actually 1500 hours because it was abused like hell for every single second, I would say it's missing an extra 0. I know my 08 210CL the meter was replaced so it's 5000 too low, computer shows working hours so you need to factor in idling hours on top. I'm sure it's possible to change computer hours, though likely not easy. Placing a value on that thing I would be factoring in it having like 15000 hours. However a 160 is generally a rare size and therefore is worth a premium dollar, if it's not an exact size you need, a 200 is generally cheaper for same hours/year. That hydraulic fluid is bad and that machine shouldn't be run until it's changed, maybe it's already done a lot of damage. The strongman is on the joystick for extra power, or if RPM's are below a certain range. Rabbit/turtle is only for track speed and is a switch on right side. I have zero complaints about my machine, i've had a few electrical problems but none of it was the machines fault, my only gripe is volvos awful electrical diagram's for troubleshooting. For the AC/heater not working, does it turn on on the computer and the fan just doesn't come on? There is a single wire that bypasses the battery disconnect that will cause that that's located in the battery tray. The fuel sight glass is pretty flimsy, i've pulled mine out and just put a bolt in both holes.
Hydraulic oil looks to me like it has had water intrusion. This can be very bad for entire system. Taking fluid samples and calling out Volvo mechanic for a look see would be a minimum (and wise) investment prior to purchase. The Volvo dealer may also have some service records on it (or access to them via a nationwide dealership data base). In other words they should be able to tell you any, and all, service/repair performed on that machine by a Volvo dealer. You may not see every service ever performed on the machine (unless all were done at a Volvo dealer) but it can give you insight as to any major repair, and (maybe even more importantly) can help you determine actually how many hours are on it. This is because each service/repair will indicate what the machine hours were when service/repair was performed. If you see that a service/repair was done at higher hours than what your being told the machine has then the hour meter and computer accuracy would certainly be called into question. Weak travel motors (in my opinion odd for that size machine) could indicate worn travel motors. Case drain pressure check (when operating the travel motors) would tell you much about that. It is often hard to judge a book by its cover, and I know that you said you don't care about looks, but it can often reveal a lot about how the previous owner cared for the machine. That looks to me to be a machine with way more than 1,500 hours on it.
Thanks for your thoughts. I've run the vin with the local dealer and there are no service records on the machine. Really the only thing that leads me to believe the hours are how smooth and tight the machine is when it is functioning, compared to anything else ive seen in that price range. My buddy doesn't think there are more than 5k hours on the undercarriage either, so id be curious your thoughts on that as well. also appears pretty clean in all the compartments. But again, the condition and the state of the hydraulic fluid concern me. It was a rental unit at one point so that could explain the damage and lack of records. The AC heater functions show up on the screen but nothing happens physically. all fuses appear to be intact. we will have to look for that wire in the battery box. As for the track speed, will an icon appear on the screen designating it is in rabbit? the toggle switch doesn't light up when it is moved. We will have to check the case drain pressure per your suggestion DGODGR. I was thinking water might have been the culprit on the hydraulic fluid. I can see how that could be damaging to the system long term but I guess I do not fully understand the severity of that situation. What are we risking here? will a full system flush rectify if it hasn't been running like that for too long? Would a fluid test answer some of these questions. That all said, we can't get passed the ECM error code: PSID201-09. He thinks the ECM needs to be flashed so if volvo needs to come out anyways I can have them look the whole machine over. Thanks for bearing with me guys, a lot of new frontier here for me. -Chris
If the oil is contaminated with water, there is simply no way to quantify the potential damage done. It functions OK now ( except for that pesky code ). All sorts of things hydraulic might start cropping up, or not. So let's look at that hour thing. If it is accurate, then the machine has been doing a whole lot of nothing but sitting around gathering that contamination in the hydraulic fluid, where it has had time to do real damage. It has too many electrical faults for that few hours too. If it is not accurate, then you have no idea either. This is one to just walk off from and keep looking. I know it moves nice and tight and you want to be done looking, but that hydro sight glass gives me the creeps, those multiple electrical things set off my radar. You asked and I say walk away. I'm just an operator who fixes the company equipment I know nothing really, but I have seen cans of worms before.
The problem I see with the physical shape is it's a million little things. If it was obvious it was just from one mishap then it wouldn't be so bad, but it's clear it's from tons of abuse. If the operator doesn't care about swinging into things, do you think they ever checked fluids, filters? Cared if dirt got in when adding fluids? Warming it up, etc? Even the inside of that panel door being rusted like that, that's pretty bad on that age. And i'm comparing to my 08 with 9500 hours. I look after it pretty well but it's in a million times better shape, there's no rust on the side of any compartment doors and we get tons of snow, salt on roads, etc, and I can't say i've been good at pressure washing it. Running smooth doesn't mean much, mine runs smooth are can be. My old Deere I had with over 13,000 hours on it ran just as smooth too. These engines if somewhat looked after run forever and will sound great. The engine isn't even the biggest concern, that hydraulic oil is bad and pumps, drives, etc will break you in a hurry. If your buddy really wants to sell, i'd say change hydraulic oil fix the little things, and tell him you want to test the machine out for say, 100 hours before deciding. If you don't go ahead offer a reasonable amount to compensate. You could still end up with a nightmare after that, but it would at least lessen the chance a lot. Also check the oil in the drives, check for play in slewing bearing, etc to get a better idea if you have a bunch of other repairs coming.
I don't know if that Volvo has a visual indicator (rabbit vs. turtle) but you should see a noticeable difference when tracking. Just start tracking the machine and operate the switch/button while tracking on level ground. The machine should change speeds with the button being switched. If there is no discernible difference then you may be correct about the unit being stuck in "rabbit" mode. The reasons for this can be multiple (including electrical) and the electrical issues can be hard to get figured out. With as many as you've already encountered, and the look of the hyd. oil (have you looked at the planetary, swing drive, engine oil, or grease in the slew?) makes me wonder if that thing fell into a pond, was in a flood, or some other type of submersion episode. The engine bay looks pretty clean though! Undercarriage is too hard to see from the photos to make an accurate assessment of remaining life. If it was a CAT I'd call my local PSR to have him come take measurements and asses the undercarriage. This service is usually free of charge. Does the local Volvo dealer have a PSR (Product Support Representative)? Looking at the pics, the list you put in your first post, and considering the possibles I would be a bit scared of buying this unit myself. The price is certainly affordable (Maybe too low -Buyer beware) but repairs are very expensive. I have found that buying a machine that is in good working order is always cheaper than trying to fix one up. The only advantage to buying a "fixer-upper" is having to come up with less initial money. Don't be surprised if you spend more in the long run though. If the hydro oil has water in it, and leads to failure of components, your repairs will be high. Figure $10k-$15k for replacing hydro pump. Probably $5k each for planetary drives (?). Probably $750 to $1k for hydraulic oil alone (complete machine removal and replacement). If the machine has been sitting for a while the oil and water may have separated (until it was run again) and that water sitting against metallic components will cause them to rust. Highly precision components (like bearings, etc.) ike those found in hydraulic systems dont react well to rust or any other foreign objects. Who knows?! I think that Volvo 160s of that era are good machines. At least there are quite a lot of them in my area (in the hands of competitors -I have never owned one), and I'm not hearing folks complain much about them. That being said, to look at your list, and the pictures, it looks like the current owner, and/or previous owner, did not give a "poop" about that machine. Again, if you really want that machine to be the one your going to have to do more homework than inquiring on this (or any) forum, or relying on the anecdotal comments of your friend (or the seller). Pay for someone to look closer at the machine. Run the machine for a long time to be sure everything is hot and that you've put the machine under the stresses you would if it were yours. Take oil samples from all compartments and send them to an oil analysis lab. Without any history they won't be able to be as precise in expected component life, but they will be able to tell you about contamination and if eminent catastrophic failure has begun. The other tool you have is to follow your gut. Did you talk to the seller? Did you ask him questions (like why is the oil milky) about how the machine was used?; How it got to be in the state that it is in?; Why is he selling it?; How many hours are actually on the machine?; Can he explain why computer and hour meter don't match?, etc., etc.? Did your gut cringe? Did you get the impression that he was BSing you. Did it seem as though you were talking to a used car salesman (apologies to all UCS that may read this)?
1 ) anything can be tampered with. That said, a hundred hour discrepancy between an hourmeter and V-ECU is not uncommon. Volvo does not make it easy to rewrite hours on their computers. SO, unless all the computers and the hourmeter were changed at the same time, it is highly unlikely the hours have been changed. 2) that ain't nothing to be afraid of. Wait till the level drops out of the sight glass and change it. Not a bad job 3) There's legitimate concern there. A) complete change of all hydraulic oil and filters, while oil is drained remove and inspect the sump strainer for foreign objects and debris. I have listed elsewhere but can repost if necessary the proper drain and fill procedure and frequency it should be done at til oil samples "clean" Most importantly, drop that case drain and (using a proper filter cutter) open that rascal up. There must be no glitter. A little vinyl, some grey pencil lead looking scum on the can is ok, but no glitter silver or bronze. 4) A/C concern, a temp sensor will not knock out the blower. The blower is an absolute PITA to change. but worse on other brands. Volvo is very proud of their blower and resistor. Always change in pairs, because you will change them in pairs. Along this line, take a moment to climb up on the tracks and smell inside the fuse relay box mounted directly behind the cab. Open the box and stick your nose in there. The early models had weak connections between printed circuits inside and would burn the connection or board before blowing the fuse. That smell is lingering. 5) Lights/ radio /wipers, Check the fuses, are hey powered on one side? If not check RE3301 and RE3302 those are the accessory relays for the machine. They are the heavy 4 pin square bosch type relays vs the 5 pin. 6) glass and seals, you definitely need the upper glass sealed. You have to keep the instrument panel dry. That is an expensive piece of hardware. It should be water proof, but it's not. 7) That's what bungies are for. 8) My GOD!!! Those tracks are tight as banjo strings. Slack em up . Raise the track off the ground , bleed off the tensioner. Pump grease in until the track pad to frame on the bottom is approximately 11.5 - 12 inches. Volvo undercarriage is strong. It doesn't like being run tight. The travel motors and gearboxes don't appreciate it. 9) You bumped the switch in the right armrest, Now it won't go back to normal? The switch , once it has some hours and time under her just doesn't like being touched. Most times, you wind up replacing the switch. It just won't reestablish contact. You could try flipping it back and forth a bunch to see if you can clean the internal contacts, but that's it. In chicago area market 160 and 170 size machines go quicker than they can make em. GCs and plumbers love em, they haul without permit, make bridge weight and sip fuel. The machine you've shown has some nice upfits. You have hammer and shear plumbing with bi-directional control and you have anchorage for a thumb. The B series machines, while the epitome of smooth are becoming obsolete. This machine has the best of both worlds. You have common rail injection ( good power and fuel economy) but none of the emissions hassle. No EGR, No DPF SCR or any of the other alphabet. I believe all the cosmetic damage results from it being used by a GC for demolition in an urban area. I can't speak to the price point. I'm a wrench and couldn't tell you what you needed if I knew how much it would cost. Good luck in your decision
Yea there is nothing that will come up on screen to indicate rabbit or turtle. The strongman light shouldn't be on though unless turned on, or fairly low RPM's which would make it seem like drives are weak if RPM's are too low. Depending on what oil you use it will be a lot more then that, plus filters. Last pail I bought was $150 for Volvo oil and that was long before prices of everything went insane, and you'll need 14 pails! Not to mention how difficult it is to flush out a full system.
powerman will be lit when in travel, you're in boost in travel, whether low or high speed travel, you're in boost. It will also be lit when in throttle position F1-F3
Like mentioned, the hours seem suspiciously low. But the fluid should be ringing alarm bells.
For a machine that size with those hours it's about 20 to 30 grand under priced and in today's market that's a big red flag start checking auction results for the last year and look what's advertised on the internent
Thank you everyone for your recommendations and professional opinions. I have decided to move on and look elsewhere. I let my buddy know about this forum and he may try picking some of your brains as we try to get some of those issues figured out.
I disagree with a 160 being a rare size at least on the east coast. that's what 99% of guys have because it's pretty much the biggest one you can pull with a 20 ton tag trailer which most smaller time excavators arent going to have a lowboy. But I agree a 200 is cheaper because they are harder to get around. If it's got 15000 hours I wouldnt do it unless super cheap. Not worth 35k
If it’s from 2006 it would be hard to imagine that low of hours on a production machine, if the machine isn’t running your not making money haha we have same size but newer and it’s about 1000 hours a year
When you figure what the repairs could be based on the condition of the hyd oil, you could use that money to buy a better machine upfront and have a better machine at the end of the day. You would have to WORK at it to jack up a machine that bad in such few hours.