Looking to buy a tandem dump this spring, largely to pull my 210 hoe around, and the occasional use otherwise. I am trying to decide between financing a $40-60k truck, or paying cash for a older $15kish truck. I hire out trucks fairly regularly for digging basements and wouldn't mind having mine working a bit but at the end of the day I know there is very little money running trucks and don't mind not having the headaches. If I go older I would try to find a semi-retired person to run it maybe 1-2 days a week tops and run my skidsteer a bit, or if it's too difficult I would just move my hoe and use it for the odd sand for services, etc wouldn't get used much maybe on average 1 day every 2 weeks but if i'm only spending $15k I don't care if it's rarely used. If I spend $40-60k I would need to be running the truck average of about 2-3 days a week to pay for it, if I get a good truck should make a bit of money on it, but at the same time I would have to have a driver running it. I'm leaning towards the older truck, economy here isn't great and no idea how busy this year will be. I'd rather buy a old truck be super busy and worst case upgrade it really soon, then buying something newer and worrying about the payments. Right now there is a 95 L9000 with Cat 3406C 500,000 miles, says 8000 hours on rebuild, 425 hp with 18 speed asking $16,500. With the hoe I will gross about 90,000lbs, I would think this would be enough power not to be too hard on the old truck? Would obviously get it inspected prior to purchase, not overly comfortable buying such a old truck at auction I just don't know enough to look it over myself. I had a 88 L9000 a few years back and was really pleased, my only complaint was the 260hp Ford motor grossing 35,000lbs wasn't a powerhouse but was reliable and incredible on fuel. I know cab rust is a big concern with these trucks. My big concern with a truck like that is, even if it checks out good is it going to nickel and dime me to death with little stuff? I have no problem doing what I can myself, and can do stuff like water pump, starter, basic stuff but don't have the knowledge for any actual engine, etc work. I would guess it would see maybe 4000-6000 miles a year.
I would have a hard time justifying 40-60 on a used dump truck for your uses We run a herd of older trucks all under $20,000 if you find the right one thats in decent shape and keep up on things they pull dirt just as well as a newer no emissions crap on the old ones to worry about The old fords are getting a little harder to get parts for mostly cab stuff ect but not to hard to keep going of course much of it is generic parts One thing to watch for is rust buildup in the double frames pushing them apart and splitting the outer rail As far as engines the big cats are quite reliable if it blows its usually time for another truck A new seat and working AC and stereo goes a long ways with your drivers
Going Corn Queen IHC can still achieve most parts to keep them viable better than the Ford chassis. Get into KW or Pete even Western Star and prices will escalate rapidly.
If you are the type of guy that keeps stuff for a long time, 10-20years, I would take the time to find a nice one. you will be better off in the end. I prefer KW or Petes, Parts are always available and the cabs last forever it seams like. My currant dump is a 1996 378 with 950,000 miles. I would drive it anywhere tomorrow. Good hunting
The more expensive truck I would be hiring out, I use one guy for all my trucking, he has 5 trucks and the rest he subs out and since I give him roughly $150k a year in business I would be one of the first. But at $85/hr, $22-$25 to driver, $30 to fuel there's not much left, so I don't feel like i'm missing out on much. There's a few guys running old trucks, and there's been a decent amount ending up broken down, but they are also running virtually everyday and who knows what maintenance is like. First dump about 10 years ago was a 89 INT with the Cummins 400, was a great truck. Didn't need a lot of repairs, eventually got rid of it when something went in the rear end and it was getting close as per the shop that it was going to need a lot of work like kingpins and issues with double frame cracking, but it was only about $16,000 and had it for about 4 years with maybe $10k at most in repairs. Did injectors, starter, brakes, hoist, few other little things. I'd be more then happy if I could find something equal to that, and we used that truck more then i'd use this one. When I had the Ford the old dealer here said most parts are still available for the old Fords. Not sure if that means all parts, or just maintenance things. I have no plans to expand beyond equipment I cannot run myself so if I get a good truck I am happy to keep it until it's not worth fixing. Seller got back to me, truck has current inspection until May, only seen about 1,000 miles since last inspection as it's a spare. So good is that it hasn't been parked. Said no major rust anywhere. If you're comparing same year, mileage everything is the KW or Peterbilt or Western Star, going to be that much more reliable and longer life? I guess seeing a truck with 1,000,000 miles scares me and thinks it's got to be worn out? I think some of the problem is some are good trucks that were looked after, but many where owned by people who patched them together, etc and are just garbage now. Some bring really good money at Ritchies other don't.
At times is just the Side Emblems that people must have, truck is a truck is a truck unless get to Hino or Old GMC where parts are a disaster. The older L, LN, LNT/LTL Ford series parts are getting lean, the dealer here in town has access to some aftermarket and a few odd parts NOS on small stuff no large components, but for the large part they are obsoleted in inventories. Big concern there is damage repairs from others damaging your machine where parts can be obtained somewhat used but the insurers rush to that point of Total where they discount the machines to nothing. Have seen worn slick W900 KWs double the price of a LNT Ford with that ford in better but not great shape. A lot will be up to what you must afford and have room to maneuver with on repairs.
Yea I agree with that. Me I don't care what the brand is, whatever is going to be the cheapest to run and the least headaches. As long as the truck looks decent as I don't want a junker because it looks terrible showing up on a jobsite, other then that it doesn't matter. Maybe I should give the old ford dealer a call and see what they can actually source for parts. If it was in a accident though could just take payout from other company and fix yourself? There is a fair amount of the trucks kicking around, I don't think sourcing hoods, doors, etc would be difficult in decent shape. A search of kijiji and someone is parting one out with good doors and hood. Would the body/interior parts be the only hard ones? I'd guess anything else like engine, tranny, diffs, suspension would not be at all unique to ford parts? I know the fords definitely bring less money then the big names for sure. International does seem like a decent bet as they are cheaper too. But not that many older trucks in good shape around, bit harder as some of the bigger HP ones aren't plumbed for trailer on air and if i'm only spending like $15k I want something already rigged up as it's too costly to be trying to put a hitch or air lines on. If i'm paying cash I want it $20k at the absolute most to allow room for repairs. The problem with jumping to $30k is no one wants to finance a 12-15 year old truck, in order to get any decent financing it needs to be 8 years old or newer and then i'm up into minimum $40k+ and even that's tough. And if I wait to save the extra coin, it would be probably July before I could afford it and loosing 2 months of prime working time with it.
I recently, and reluctantly, sold my '97 IH 2554 single axle and bought a '97 Ford L8000 tandem, mostly because the DOT is going overboard here on 100-250 pound overweight tickets. I really don't need to haul much volume for what I do, but figured as long as I had to move up in GVW I just as well get enough truck to do some legit hauling for others on the days I'm not at my regular gig. I had a concern about parts; engine, powertrain, rear ends and suspension are fairly standard makes, so no problem. Cab/chassis is harder, but I did get referred to a truck dealer in MN who is able to obtain a lot of NOS items, including doors, door parts, glass etc. I would think there is probably a similar source up there, not sure how many Fords Canada would have imported during the 80s/90s.
My LTL9000 Ford, big cam 400, had the God awful neway air suspension. You couldn't run over a nickel without out it lifting one wheel off the ground. And, if it came back down, it would shear an axle shaft (replaced at least 5 shafts, and 4 differential carriers in the 6 years I had it).
If that 3406C is still set up as an electronic PEEC engine, don't walk... Run away. JMO.
Haven't bought a truck yet. Went to last Ritchie's auction and just cannot see paying $20k for a 20 year old sterling with 400k-500k miles that is probably going to need a decent amount of work anything under $20k is just junk imo. And what really worried me is such an old truck still having enough power to gross 90,000lbs+. The thing that caught me off guard is how cheap the newer internationals have gotten. A 2013 with 60k miles for under $40k. I think that has to be a better way to go then a old money pit. My dad has a 2015 in the same truck with 75k miles, it's had it's fair share of problems but for the money I think it would still be less problems then a old truck. Tell me if i'm wrong but my thinking with the international is the really bad will be the maxxforce and the wiring. Such a new truck will have a solid allison, diffs, frame, etc etc that I don't need to worry about. The emissions has had issues but worst case is delete it. While the 20+ year old truck I have to worry about engine, tranny, diffs, anything really being that old with that many miles. Plus trying to find someone to drive it and the perception of hiring it out is so much worse then a newer truck. For the extra $20k all I would need to do is work the truck an extra 15 hours a month to cover the cost, and I would imagine with the extra use the newer truck should cost less to keep on the road.
Well saludas I bought a L9000 tandem at auction. It was a muni truck in really good shape. In the process of getting it road/DOT worthy. Wiper motor, a few seals, full service, couple of brakes and 2 sway bars on the Hendrikson tandem. Paid $15K for it. HeavyEquipmentForums Just going to use it to move our equipment around and as a site truck. I will still hire out most of our hauling to tri-axles and our stone is delivered by the quarry's at a reasonable rate. The biggest benefit is not waiting on a lowboy to move the D5G, roller, backhoe or loader around plus it will make a good on site truck. We'll see how it goes..
Maxxforce is a cuss word if you ask me a rental outfit had 4 maxxforce water trucks sold them after 2 years and they were basically a give away at the auction they would not run a week without issues I know of 21 trucks that got traded to the dealer at the end of warranty it took them 18 months to get rid of all of them maxxforce just sucks
The Neway air uses the same pivot hangers on the axle housings as Hendrickson spring over beam or beam biscuit. It's not a bad job to remove the Neway air ride and convert to walking beam.
Yea I seen that, nice truck. Problem i'm finding is many of the nicer old trucks like yours are auto, or low power, or no heavy pintle and air lines. I don't want to bother trying to put a hitch on a 20+ year old truck it's just too expensive to bother. I need to pull my 210 hoe so I need at a very minimum 400hp in a old truck, and I don't want an auto if it's more then about 10 years old.
Oh I agree. Some are a non stop problem. I had a maxxforce 15 a few years ago only for about a year and had no problems with it, but I didn't have it that long. My dads dump in 5 years and 75k miles has had a fair bit of problems a lot of it due to dealership incompetence that you can't blame on the truck though, but at the same time if i'm spending $40k on a truck that say a peterbilt or kenworth would cost me $70k I can deal with quite a bit problems. I will use the truck 1-2 days a week tops, and I have my dads to borrow if I need to move my hoe. The thinking also is, the only real downfalls are the motor and wiring seems to be an issue with many internationals. Other then that, it's not that much different of a truck. And having had this one for 5 years and seeing some of the problems, it helps. My brother also had a international picker which has been ok so far with the maxxforce. I can see why someone who needs a truck everyday doesn't want one, but for someone like me who doesn't use it all the time and has a back up, saving the money seems very attractive.
I get your point about wanting 400 hp to move a hoe that size but unless you have good size hills it's a non issue to me while I agree everything is priced to high at the moment I have spotted some decent tandems under 30 grand with c12 3306 ism l10 to name a few and for the most part are good engines I have a buddy that does pools he has a ford with a 3208 and pulls a 314 with a hammer on it I have also pulled backhoes on a service truck and tag with a dt 466 now I know that's not a fair comparison but both those motors are rated under 300 hp and do an ok job it's not a hot rod Point is when buying used trucks beggers can't always be choosers and if the difference is keeping money in your pocket and taking an extra 20 minutes to move a machine or have payments so you can pass other trucks on the freeway I will be cheap Also it is not that big of an undertaking to put a hitch and airlines on a truck if you have more than 2500 into it something may have gone wrong If you buy an older truck and take care of it do the little extras to keep it in good shape they last a long time and most of all it is paid for work or not it can afford to sit there
I understand that. Originally bought this L9000 thinking it would be a good site truck, never tag it and run red fuel but it turned out nice enough to put it on the road. Personally I wouldn't be scared of an Allison that is 10 years old or order. Now I wouldn't want a 10 year old (or a new one for that matter) automated mechanical. Ran 2 HD4560's in an IH and Mack during the 2000's. Even when I had a Mack Granite tri-axle with MP7 and HD4560 we didn't move our 320 size hoes- just too much weight on a tag going through our hills, valleys and traffic. Moved a 321DL once behind a 7600 IH, C13 Cat @ 430 and HD4560 ONCE. I made a deal with the Good Lord above that if he could just see us fools safely to our destination I would never do it again - I have since kept my end of the deal.
Newer trucks are cheap for a reason, sensor goes out on the road and shuts you down. Tow bill and hook up to a computer. Older nice trucks around here are at a premium. Maintenance verses payments, Payments come every month, I like older equipment that's not eating when it's not working.
I'm with you, had many experiences working for companies where a sensor or electronic control shut the whole day down, and sometimes a week or more. Perfectly good running truck/machine, but an electronic signal either wasn't present or incorrect. In several cases, it was over $10K shop/parts plus the downtime to discover emissions add-ons that were faulty, or a complex ECM failure pattern. I'm admittedly a bit of a Luddite when it comes to the latest and greatest. I've run both extensively this past 40+ years, no argument from me that improved versions of machinery have some real advantages, especially ergonomic. It does come at the cost of increased complexity. I have lost jobs because I do not run new equipment - older but clean and well kept is what I prefer. Surprisingly, some people will pay more to have the same job done by new paint, on the premise that the machinery is better and it must follow that the operator more successful (and thus more experienced). Irks me, but those may not be the people I want for customers, anyway. I'll run my late 90s L8000 tandem down the road alongside a new tandem any day of the week. At the end of the day, I'm betting I know which one of us takes home a little butter along with his bread.
We don't have that many hills here and most of my moves are in the city, but right now i'm pulling it with 330hp with a 6 speed allison and I know it's pushing the truck right to the limits. I know a standard will have more power, but i'd be scared of killing a 20 year old 300hp motor trying to pull that much weight. Old truck was a 1989 INT with the 400 Cummins and had about 600k miles on it and even just at 50,000lbs it was enough for that truck, the motor was tired. I don't care how fast it moves it, I just don't want something that i'm going to kill in short order pulling the hoe. Again maybe i'm just scared of old trucks, but i'm worried about trying to drill into a old frame like that and throw on a hitch and stress it in new ways. The old INT was a double frame and it was cracked and splitting in numerous places. Plus i'd rather just put that extra money into the purchase price, if i'm only spending $15k an extra say $3k goes a long ways. It cost me about $1200 for parts and labour alone just to run air lines for my trailer, the trolley lever and trailer button was already there.
Yea there's been a few times I didn't know if the truck was going to make it up the hill, crawling up in 1st barely moving. It sure makes the engine work, even at -20 the fan will kick in. There's a few hills I try to get a good run at but still drop from 65 mph to about 25 mph. Well it's also for price. The 10-15 year old trucks that are nice and the last of the pre-emissions in an auto are worth a fortune. And if i'm only spending $20k or less i'm fine with a standard as I won't bother hiring it out, and less costs to deal with.
I do agree with that. I'd rather the old truck buy it with cash and just use it when I need it and not waste my time hiring it out, it doesn't make much money anyway.
Funny enough, the guy I use for all my trucking has 5 pretty much new kenworths and subs out the rest. Every single time i've had a truck break down it's an old one. Last one turbo blew, others like box won't go down, etc. But i'm also being unfair in the sense that one these old trucks are running pretty much everyday so it's going to happen, and some just aren't looked after. I will admit though I do prefer the newer trucks for the most part except for a few of the good old ones. Many of the old ones have bad drivers, small boxes, can't get into as tight of areas, etc. But if it's a good old truck, I don't care about age at all. The only time I specifically say I need new trucks hauling is when i'm dealing with road bans, because most can legally haul around 2-3 tons more so it makes a big difference. Yea it depends on the customer. I find some appreciate old iron that is looked after, some want new and shiny. But a lot of people seem to be wising up and realize the best stuff is what is paid for. My stuff is kind of in the middle, oldest equipment is 2007, newest is 2013. It sure feels better running it when it's paid for though. When my mini hoe was having electrical issues I was looking hard at buying a new one, toughed it out got it fixed and since I made the last payment I like it so much more and will not get rid of it until it is completely worn out, or not worth fixing. I am leaning towards old and paying cash. If next year is busy I want to expand and buy at least 2-3 more pieces of equipment and buying a cheaper dump will help a lot.
Here's one i've been looking at, it's been for sales at least 3 months though, seems odd it would be up for so long as it seems pretty cheap to me? I was going to take a look just to see, but it's 3 hours a way so not quite as easy to look at. Things that I like are the rims changed from the old style, ready to pull trailer on air, electric tarp, etc. Looks in decent shape for the age. https://www.kijiji.ca/v-heavy-equipment-machinery/calgary/ford-9000-phone-403-660-4436/1440047626
The drawback stares at you from the back, Air Ride, old Tractor converted to dump. First item to look for, an air bag dump system so that when use the bed to dump, the Air Ride is already down on stops, not there and a lay over looking for a place to happen. Check the frame as likely single rail not reinforced.
Interesting, I had no idea from looking it was a tractor. I actually figured the air ride was a plus but partly just me being lazy it's nice for unhooking the trailer with the hoe on, and easier to load with small equipment. I figured all trucks with air suspension would have a dump switch? If it's not double frame it should be reinforced where there is a lot of stress from the dump box right?
One would at least hope so. A visual inspect would be in order.
Ok. Wish it was closer to have a look. I think buying something of that age it would be a good investment to have a shop spend a least a few hours looking it over. Provided the frame was not an issue and an inspection checked out, it would seem like a pretty good deal, no? $15k sure doesn't buy much here. And i'd gladly pay a bit more privately then auction when at least I can drive it and take it to be looked at.
..No doubt! Take what you win, run what your brung!
Could be worth the money Would still pay someone close to it to go give it a look first Money well spent
My old 1994 9400 works great for me. Not saying I pull heavy but my equipment includes a 973 cat and 200 komatsu hoe and I don't own a lowboy. If I were to put another truck together I would look at single axles and buy a set of cutoff to make it a tandem. SA seem to be cheaper and not as beat but I'm almost 60 and this IH will probably be my last truck.
gwhammy, Are you saying you haul your 973 on a tag trailer behind a dump truck? I might be wrong but I'm pretty sure if I tried that around here that the DOT would have me pulled over immediately. In your post you didn't actually say this but since this is a dump truck thread i was assuming that's what you were saying.
Not seen much in the way of a 30 ton tag along trailer myself, a 973 would lean out to around 54K IIRC.
I'm not saying I haul this but it is legal with a heavy haul permit as I read the laws. I do have a triple axle air ride pintle hitch trailer I pull. I actually do a lot of farm work close to my house and will drive the loader a couple miles down the shoulder of the highway and down gravel roads. Poor people have poor ways!!
The only reason I was questioning is years ago I worked for a guy that had a 973. He had a 3 axle lowboy and a regular 3 axle tractor. He was constantly calling the dot to get permitted to move it and even had to have an escort on some roads. I realize different states have different laws. The way the DOT have been around here lately they would probably pull you over with a D2 on the trailer. LOL
Well I need to find a truck ASAP now. Maxxforce POS is in the shop, either head damage or headgasket...... Definitely listening to the good advice here of not going close to one, the thing only has 75,000 miles on it..... Anyways here's a few trucks i'm looking at. Leaning towards this one if it checks out. Looks like old plow truck which isn't ideal though https://www.kijiji.ca/v-heavy-truck...ck/1452175707?enableSearchNavigationFlag=true Concern I have with this one is according to my search this engine could only be max 350hp which isn't a lot but it has a 18 speed? Seems really odd to have such a small motor with a 18 speed, owner says they've had it since it was 3 years old and nothing has been changed. https://www.kijiji.ca/v-heavy-truck...ck/1451330234?enableSearchNavigationFlag=true Getting pretty old I think? But like the idea of having an inframe done. https://www.kijiji.ca/v-heavy-truck...ck/1451260087?enableSearchNavigationFlag=true Lots of work done, but not sure that's always good. https://www.kijiji.ca/v-heavy-truck...ck/1435611194?enableSearchNavigationFlag=true Seems decent? https://www.kijiji.ca/v-heavy-truck...ar/1423907418?enableSearchNavigationFlag=true Not super interested in this, it's someone who buys from auction and flips so obviously knows nothing about it and just trying to make a buck, but kind of give me an idea of worth on others. https://www.kijiji.ca/v-heavy-truck...ed/1444458863?enableSearchNavigationFlag=true Don't want to rush a purchase, but would like to get something right away. What truck would you guys say looks like a good buy, if any? Obviously provided it runs/drives like it looks, etc. Would prefer the cheaper end at under $15k, but if I have to spend $20k for something decent I will.
Whichever machine you get to interest enough to spend money on, even as you would have to pay up front have the seller take it to a reputable shop close by for evaluation. Money well spent to keep from having a large Lawn ornament arrive at the house. I really do not get the exposed lift cylinder no cab guard beds. Asking for problems.
For sure. As far as engine/make/year does anyone stick out to be a lot better? I find it odd how different places do things so different. No one runs can guards here, some beds the cylinder is kind of tucked in but not the majority.
3406 was pretty bullet proof, I did not get into the E series too far before bailed on mechanic work, C series no ideas really but heard good of them, the DD 60 series seem to have their plusses and minuses as all do where any of these engines are EXPENSIVE for a full overhaul and a light in frame refresh is hardly worth the effort. Cummins up to the N11s I had little issues with, long duration pretty well sledgehammer engines. More gears the better the options on grades, locker differentials likely Meritor, have been in one that failed but managed to limp it close to 150 miles get a load off and back to a shop, kind of handy in the muck but can grenade as any can. Look for Hendrickson or some form of beam suspension between axles, more durable, less shock to the system in crossing rough country.
DM I've wondered that myself. No cab guard and exposed cylinder works for some but it wouldn't work for me. Like this new truck for sale in TX. The rear lift axle would seem to hang the truck up, probably runs on the pavement all day.
Can see that plastic DEF tank sitting on the ground when getting loaded at some point!!
Other then that funny tag axle that's pretty much how they are rigged here, except the DEF tank is tight to the fuel tank. IMO I see no reason for a cab guard, I won't ever swing over the cab when loading. But with some operators I could see the benefit if it was your own truck getting hired out.
It's all about saved weight with cab guards and cylinder covers Trucks like the one cm is showing with the tag axel is to make better turning radius having the drives moved up big down side is you have to have the tag down to dump or they lean big time also on that bed there is so much room between the bed and cab you dont need a dog house for the ram cause space is abundant saves weight of dog house and creates less corners for material to stick and they make the truck that length for bridge 3406 e series have never let me down same with the bs I have seen 2 bs die one was an oil pump with 1.1 on it the other driver crammed her into gear down shifting freshly rebuilt motor hit at least 25 on the tach before it threw a rod I was never a dd guy just not much exposure there are a lot of guys that die by there 60 series M 11 I have never had complaints against not a powerhouse but they stand up well Food for thought back in the day with 300 hp motors guys ran 5 and a 4 or 5 and a 3 trans its convenient to have multiple gear options with smaller power most purposes built dump trucks have 8ll in them to save weight and low rear end ratios A lot of 10 wheelers were road tractors repurposed into a dump so you will find a variety of trans
My concern with the trans was if it came like that from the factory, or if someone swapped something and it's a potential headache. Also scared of getting too small of motor and overworking it as I gross over 90,000lbs and I would like to be able to run with like 6-7 yards of sand in the box when pulling my hoe and gross around 105000 if I need to. Weight of the truck doesn't concern me much, purchase price, maintenance cost and reliability is all I care about. For the amount I run it, fuel mileage isn't really a concern even.
Man you guys can haul weight we can't dream of down here
Trailer axles are allowed 53,000, truck depending on spec is about 51500-54000.
Ok... this is really starting to drag out and get tiresome. OP go find a truck YOU are happy with. Your requirements keep bouncing all over the place, you seem to be suspicious of every used truck you see, worrying about whether the trans is not original or worrying about "killing an older engine" or "drilling holes in an older frame". You can beat this dead horse all you want, but go buy something. My recommendation is a 14L engine, at least a 13 spd trans, and a walking beam suspension with 40,000 pound rears minimum. Hope this helps. One of my customers is running a 75 KW with a 15 yard box with a 400 Cummins, a 13 spd, and a lift axle drilled into his old frame. That truck runs every day pulling a pup at 80,000 lbs. I think it has a little over 1.8 million miles on it.
Can agree RZ, time to bite that bullet, Pick One and charge. Walking beams, minimum 40K rears, preferably 48s, 13 or Deep Reduction 15, and at least 350hp large Cubic engine, 14L(855) or better. Six bolt pintle on rear and air set up for trailer already installed, Me as to tires/wheels, no six spoke Dayton's, Budd's on 22.5 rims. Forward mount air lift tag(s) and a 16-18 yard box. Having a lip at the gate to send dumped material AWAY from the back though not a necessity is nice. Cab is open to users choice, all are good/bad/hard or easy enough to find generic parts to fix the OE that may be non-existent. Curved glass more expensive flat glass gets more stone bruises another coin toss. Pick one you are comfortable getting in and out of.
Having a dump truck full of material and hauling a skid steer is one thing. Even 6 or 7 yards could be over 20,000lbs. If you want to use an older truck under 20K, I think you either haul the hoe or you haul material but not at the same time. You want something reliable but at the same time want to push it to the max. Doesn't sound like a good plan for reliability to me.
Thanks guys. It's just even in those specs I can't find one truck that meets them all. Even searching prices up to $50k, as I figured if it's a good enough truck I will pony up to $40k just to make sure I can get something good. Going to take a look at two tomorrow or monday, same seller. One is a 2000 sterling c12 13 speed 46 rears 260k miles asking $20,500 not sure of hours, other is a 2005 sterling c13 18 speed 46 rears 160k miles asking $27500. Pretty similar trucks both have live hydraulics and are plow specs, both plumbed for pup. I'm thinking the 2000 is a much better choice obviously pending the shape as if i'm not mistaken the 2005 is the ACERT with twin turbos and had some issues?
Did some digging on the truck, they bought it at RB last year. It was rigged up for a plow, but oddly had a fifth wheel. Considering all they did was put a box on it, everything else was done I think it's good negotiating to know they only paid $9k, figure $2500 for a used box maybe the same to put it on. Was certainly hoping it was the higher HP version of the engine, think with a 13 speed it would have enough? I can live with hauling only empty when i'm pulling the hoe. https://www.rbauction.com/2000-ster...Id=10646633&id=ar&auction=edmonton-ab-2018223
Is best to do homework
HP doesn't determine what you can pull, it determines how fast you can pull it. In my teens I pulled a 2-yard michigan loader behind an f-700 with a 300-6 gas engine every few days. When I got a little older I graduated to moving D8s with a 237hp Mack.
Old Thermodynes could cough out HP from 1900 to a grand on the dyno at Mack in St Louis Not much curve just hard power only 230 but steady as a rock Maxidynes pretty similar
Old 290 Cummins same Dyno would start at 275 around 1850 peak drop slightly to 260 at 1680-1700 and drop like a rock below 1650-1550 DD 8v71 maxxed at 2100 redline at 2300 only pulled HP to 1800 delivered 270 on 318 rate When Mack said 237 HP they meant AT the wheels!!
BTW Econodynes SUCKED! Had to add gears to get them to work well. Can still remember that Old Man's B series, had a Maxidyne in it(Transplant), odd pull cable on the dash with a 1" flat Washer on edge for a pull. Was getting readout from running valves new nozzles and a little intake repairs for that previous mod, BTW Straight Stack Exhaust NO Muffler just a rain rattle. On the Dyno SAME Dyno, was pulling HP of 270+/- at 1800, curious George got the better of me, and I pulled a little, not much resistance, pulled a LITTLE Harder and ROAR!! Dyno gauge went over 350 WELL OVER, foreskin was walking the lot JUST HAPPENED to see it go off, came a running. Said Fireball out the Stack was really impressive, then we heard the crackling and he had me get the truck the F outa there. Takes time but I got it out so the STL FD could get in. Old man had a Custom Shop Stinger on the rack or governor, SOMETHING, Some rather inconspicuous pump work where COULD go a little MORE fuel than allowable. I set fire to the Dyno exhaust hood where some thirty plus years of oil and carbon had built up really well. That took almost an hour to recover from. He explained was a little hard pulling assist he and another guy had figured out, truck left the shop NO WARRANTY.
Do your homework and research to reach whatever sense of peace of mind you seem to be looking for. Considering the OP for this thread and the truck you were looking at and the 210 on a trailer it seems that I would be more concerned with the trailer and the truck hitch. I have hooked a 3406B and 13 speed with Eaton 2 spds to a lowboy and a D8H with a ripper and a full U grossing 123,500 more times than I can remember. I did eventually swap the 13 for a 18. It seems that you are looking for someone to say "it will be perfect buy this one"... You are buying a used truck. Nobody is going to sign off on that, you need to sign off on that. Your last post re: the Sterlings... someone will correct me if I am wrong, it seems that it takes about 70 HP to turn the fan when it comes on. we have a IHC single axle that has live hydraulics that is the largest toad we own. I suggested to the head wrench that hot wrenching the pump drive was a viable field repair I could perform, as opposed to going 15 mph uphill listening to the live pump doing nothing except dragging the available hp down into the toilet. In baseball, if the pitcher does not throw the ball the game will not advance. You seem to have a fair idea of what you want/need. Time to move out of the batters box to the plate. Perhaps you can not reach a decision, on which used pearl of the realm to invest in. The prospect of it's possible unforeseen failure/financial loss due to downtime and repair is a barrier that you are not comfortable with. There is a alternative, the new Peterbilt, Kenworth, Mack and International stores have them lined up. Trucks not besmirched by former owners and protected by warranty. Many of us have done this. Have the big monthly stroke but no downtime to ensure that our gear works everytime, everyday. (in a perfect world with good drivers) Some of us like to buy used trucks purpose built for the task by others that aren't completely used up for 1/2 the money and throw the dice a bit. Some others of us will settle on a used highway tractor with a 4 dollar box thrown at it with Reyco suspension and frame full of light weight highway components that were originally purchased to haul 45000 pounds of cabbage up and down the interstate and won't be able to understand why their newly minted "dirt" truck is broke constantly. When you are comfortable with your choice, dive in. Were all out hear paddling around together.
Hmmm Been there done that on a 35 ton Fruhauf
I'm not so sure about the sterlings, major components should be fine but cab and in cab parts are already becoming a problem from what I hear. If you can be patient, look for an older well cared for rig that isn't a repurposed over the road tractor. Even if you need to put a few dollars into something after the purchase, at least you'll know what you've got, and something with less electronics is probably better in the end anyway....
An old mixer chassis converted to Dump is a FAR better choice, Air Rides are NOT a good choice any more than Four Spring setups under dump trucks. Usually Single rail frames, weak backed, end up with more carnage than worth in short order.
Nothing like a Bulldog dragging a Cat by the Tail!!!!
Mixer trucks are h$ll for stout, got a local farm running a couple with poo spreader boxes on them carrying huge loads. Problem is that most of them have smaller engines (300-325 HP) in the 3306 class and more often than not an 8LL trans. They make a great farm truck though, with 20K fronts and 60K in the rear on solid walking beams they can break the driver before he can break the truck.
Around here an old rear mixer is usually toast when the mixer body is done. Cab will be shot and the frame rust jacked badly, buying a used mixer with a worn out drum or bad drive at an auction can net a heavy spec truck that you can then put a dump bed on.
The problem with mixer trucks here is in the last 15 or so years almost everyone has went to tri-drives. Any tandem that ever pop up are worn out twice already and not worth trying to put any money into. One company doesn't even sell their own trucks, they have a yard they sit and rot in as they won't risk any competition buying them.
Worth the mention tho'.
well I finally bought a truck. 92 western star with 3408 cat and 13 speed for $7500. Gambled by not taking it to be looked at, guess I will find out if it will come back to haunt me or not. But it didn’t miss a beat the hour drive with it and loooks good. Needs some work for sure but even if I need to dump $5k into it still a cheap truck.
Really a 3408 now you can haul a 360 and have power left over lol
Keep it wound up, torque on a V8 is not as quite as good as a inline, but will make HP.
Lets see some some pics. of it. 3408's are apparently hard on fuel and expensive to repair. Hope it works out for you.
Keep it wound up to protect the crank, those engines do not like being lugged. I've seen 3 with broken cranks from bad vibration dampeners, one had a set of really bad injectors and had been running rough under a pull. IIRC "Fluiddampr" makes an after market fluid filled damper for them (it's not cheap). The 3 I saw had broken through the offset rod journals. Two were in D9N's and one was out of a truck. The truck got an 8V-92 @475HP and the owner was actually happier with the Detroit.
Sorry I totally typed the wrong number, it's the 3406B. I don't think I could ever buy a V8 diesel...
Might not be the best looking truck, but runs well.
Give some more details, suspension type and axle ratings, miles/hours, HP, etc. Price seems in the ballpark. Western Star should have parts available which is a bonus. A few years ago I bought a 94 Ford L9000 with an M11 310E for $8000. 16K front, 40,00 rears with Hendrickson springs and walking beams. Double frame with no rust jacking and twin steering boxes. Former plow truck, not perfect but basically works. Figured it will haul a lot more than a dump trailer behind a pick-up for less money and could also carry a large water tank if needed down the road. M11 is really good on fuel. One issue is it needs to held at about 1100 RPM after starting so it keeps running when it runs out of prime after about 40 seconds. After that it's good all day to shut off and start back up at idle. Not a big enough deal to worry about. Only other issue is it has a solenoid valve for the hoist that sometimes doesn't activate and you have to play with a bit. Might look into that more but still not a big deal for what I use it for.
Don't have to be pretty to get it done. 3406B is a damned good engine, lots of mid range torque. Western Star is a nice size cab and appears beam suspension so I believe even if needs a little will be a good unit.
Should work pretty good for you the only thing that kills 3406bs is stupidity so your in great shape there I'm kinda envious for a used dump truck that seems to have a good foundation the 13 speed is good to have as well there is only the slight down side 13 speeds dont have a deep under so they are kinda geared high for certain situations on a dump truck but it's by no mean life altering
The old Pete I was running I never used Low, was deep enough in Second to start off behind a 3406E. Not too many will need the lowest gear save a really slop house site and that is best left to drier days.
She don't have to be pretty to get the job done, remember, paint makes it what it ain't
Well gave the truck a pretty good test today pulling the hoe, even worse being downtown in really tight area and had a few steep hills. Trucks pulls harder then the 330hp 6 speed auto by far. The worst hill I had to drop to 4th, the rest it would hold 6th easily. Good to know the motor is in good shape.
This is geared really low. 1600rpms is about 53 mph. 13 is perfect for me, I doubt I will rarely if ever need to even split, it has a lot of power, I’m really surprised. It honestly doesn’t even feel like the truck is working getting up to speed on flat ground.
Yes it’s spring suspension hendrikson beam I think? 14 front, 40 rears. It had a plow on it at some point. 300k miles but speed reads about 20% low from my estimate, neither hour meter works. It fires up instantly in the morning. It needs some work and maintainaince for sure but really happy with it.
Use the splits to your advantage, the 3406 will lug but they do not like it and unless you are watching a pyrometer things can heat to destructive pretty quick. Let the engine breath and work at its peak performance rpms.
What RPM would be lugging it? I was downshifting at 1500 before, doesn't sound like it's lugging at that yet. What would be the top RPM to be running on the highway? Been keeping it at 1700, not sure if it would be ok to go higher or not.
Going to be doing some maintenance like oil change, fuel filter, air filter, belts. The air box is kind of rusted, was thinking of trying a wrecker for a replacement. As far as the diffs and tranny, I was thinking of changing those fluids to, but no idea how? Is it something I should just let the shop do? Is there anything else maintenance wise I should be doing?
Under 1300 is grunting above 1800 and they eat fuel like crazy
Every piece of used equipment I have ever purchased gets a complete fluid change, right down to the power steering. All fluids were drained into a clean container so I could look for problems (metal chunks, coolant in the engine oil, etc.). I dropped the oil in the front axle of a Cat 960B loader once and it sounded like marbles hitting the pan (bearing rollers, win some, lose some). The trans and rear end changes are not that difficult, drain out the bottom and pump into the fill hole. See if you can find out which oils the previous owner was running. Personally I like synthetic gear lubes anymore. mostly because you don't stink of sulphur after rebuilding one.
Ok great, then i'm right in the range. I'm shocked so far how easy on fuel it is. Was nearly on empty, 50 gallons in and moved hoe twice, fairly long cross city moves and if gauge is somewhat accurate haven't even burned half of it yet.
Making max torque at 1300. I used to run mine at 1800ish. Great engine
Oh yes, coolant and power steering change for sure to. Figure might as well do as much as I can myself instead of paying shop $120/hr to do it. Previous owner never changed them, so have no idea what was in them.
Ran one in an '86 Freightliner that came from DCC Chambers, Had the Canadian spread and a 20 spd Spicer. The thing was set to run at 1400 to 1600, if you couldn't maintain a load (lug) on the engine past 1600 it just fell on its face. It would pull to 2000 if it was loaded heavy. I don't know how they set their pumps but it had a black haze when it idled, and could really smoke things up when you were getting started out.
There should be a filter in the power steering reservoir and depending on whether it was running red or green coolant there may be a coolant filter. If you are going to run red coolant take it off, plug the holes, and throw the thing away.
The 3406 B came in several high end rpm ranges. Most produced in the late 80's and early 90's fuel shut off at 1800 rpm, but can be refigured to 2000 rpm and they run better at that upper range. IMO I had three recalibrated for 2000 from 1800 rpm and the difference is well worth it. A friend that worked at Cat for years is probably the best Cat injection pump rebuilder I have ever run on to. He has a large file on 3406B and C performance specs and ratings, When harvest is over for him, I'm going to copy off the many pages of 3406B & C specs and hopefully post them here under a sticky file so everyone has a source of info at their finger tips.
If no coolant filter will need a supplement to add and USED to be done by test strips for concentration, have not had to do that in awhile so not certain how is done these days. Green Coolant has a initial load of corrosion control chemicals, is Not enough generally to control Electrolysis and combustion pressure caused liner Cavitation, follow instructions unless has a Filter then just change on intervals. Orange Semi Permanent AntiFreeze I have not dealt with on the newer big engines, Listen to the Words of wisdom of others here.
The current coolant is green. Am I better off to stay with or go to red, which way would be less work?
Stick with what was in it. Swapping involves flushing and chemical applications to remove residual of the previous material(incompatibility) where not all that great on a older engine/cooling system.
Yea that does sound easier. Question, where would be the best place to source filters? There is a Finning close by, as well as Western Star dealer, Cummins, almost all places. Current fuel and oil are fleetguard which is why I mentioned Cummins, mostly wondering about air filter if that will be tougher to find? Couldn't find a brand or part number on it. Would matching the size work?
WS Dealer likely will carry OEM Cat, Finning will have what you need but could be pricey, Fleetguard I never had issues with but filter companies are flighty at best as to subcontract on certain off makes filters. Do NOT go FRAM or Wix, WIX have changed in the last few years, not sure why but both are crappy, NAPA and Parts House Distributor no names I will use on a Car but nothing HD. Donaldson is the Name to trust on Air Filters or OE from WS, should be a number somewhere on it otherwise the Dealer should be able to determine what was in it.
If I can jump in here I wouldn't trust Fleetguard filters as far as I could throw them, despite Fleetguard being part of Cummins. Donaldson are the only one I would personally recommend although there must be some other good aftermarket (i.e. non-OEM) brands out there.
Just out of curiosity what's your beef with fleet guard I was always under the impression they were pretty good I always thought wix was decent not necessarily the best but good and anything was better than baldwin
All I can achieve for my Allis Loader is thru Baldwin, Knock on my wooden head No Issues so far and Yes, I am NOT fond of them.
Well there is a place in the city that says they stock Donaldson filters so i'll give them a try, there is a partial number on the filter but worse case they should be able to match it up if I bring them the old one as it is a Donaldson. Before this truck and a short lapse of judgment with a Maxxforce the only diesels engines i've ever owned is Cummins, and I would not hesitate to ever run their filters in their motors. But if there is a better option for this i'm fine with it. Cost doesn't matter a whole lot to me as it's not like i'm going to be changing it again anytime soon. Drained the coolant and power steering fluid, both looked perfect which is good. Belts looked worse before I pulled them but they were still in decent shape, oh well last thing I want to do is trying to change a belt on the side of the road. I didn't notice any coolant or power steering filter though, i'll have to take a picture of them both maybe i'm missing something? Is there a certain brand I should stick to for the coolant sticking with the green stuff?
What are the problems with Baldwin filters?
In a word, they're ****...... Too many bad experiences over the years in all sorts of systems, not just engines.
If you are using NAPA filters, you are using WIX.
Pretty much, made by GARD corporation in Gastonia... wherever. So are the CARQUEST filters. I use Napa or Wix on my personal stuff and never had an issue. Been using Luberfiner brand on the customer trucks with no issues yet. Haven't checked to see who is making them.
Champion owns Luberfiner, plants in IL, MI, CA and Costa Rica. Hard to find suppliers around here for some reason.
Finally got truck in for inspection and it's not bad at all. 2 tires are cracked and in rough shape, 1 rear axle needs brakes, 1 s-cam in backwards needs to be fixed, few lights, few air leaks, 2 leaking brake pods, power steering leak. Nothing big at all. Thinking I should make out around the $3000-$3500 mark which I can't complain about at all. Have about another $1,000 replacing fluids, filters, and belts. Bit more to get a better seat, stereo, etc. I was concerned at first, they called me and said we haven't even pulled the wheels and have a list a page long, should we even keep going? But all it was was a bunch of tiny stuff.
how do you put an S-cam in backwards?
I put them in with the shaft pointed out once, but then I had trouble getting the drum on. I figured out what I was doing wrong and swapped it around.
Put them on the wrong sides. They don't work that way but they will install and look OK to a novice. Although with COs way, he needed to get a bigger hammer.
All depends on whether the S-cam is mounted in front or behind axle housing.
Yea that's exactly what it was, passenger side put in on the drivers side. Although after going by to drop off new tires today, I have a lot less confidence in the shop, specifically the guy who's working on it, I don't know that much about brakes but it was pretty clear I knew more then him. It's kind of scary to see who's working on vehicles, i'm going to have to go over the axle they touched to make sure it's done properly. I hope he was just the apprentice and someone better is looking over him.The last brakes I got done on my trailer (at a different place) they didn't put a cotter key in the pin for the brake, and basically shrugged it off when I told them about it, and thought I was blowing it out of proportion when I told them that could have been a million dollar cotter key if that pin came out with my hoe on the trailer at 60 mph.
Most can't even tell the difference between standard and plus S-cams
If you pay a shop to fix your stuff generally you have to be after a certain guy to work on it, not the business name on the sign over the door, unless the owner/manager is known to be attentive to that stuff.
At first I took my trailer there because after spending a fortune on it last year knew it needed nothing but a few wiring repairs that anyone can do, and their inspection fees are low as well as shop rate. Compared to some shops, it would cost about $300 more for the inspection which is all the few repairs cost. After this I will have my quonset setup for the winter to do most of these types of repairs myself. No sense paying someone to do something I can do myself, and I know it's done right. Fingers crossed that the truck and trailer will give me at least a year before needing much of anything though.
On that note, I was not impressed when they called thursday afternoon saying it needed front brakes too, and that the drums are a week away and cost $1000 alone, I was expecting to have the truck back thursday or friday at the latest. I thought I had made it clear they were not to start on any repairs until I had a full list of what it needed. Sure I would be ok if they found something else small while doing other repairs, but not something as obvious as brakes.
$1,000 bucks for steer axle drums, those must be very rare drums. I think I would be pulling that rig out of that shop. IMO
They said they were, apparently phoned every brake parts place in town, dealership, etc no one had them because they are special. I am getting the part number and will confirm, if they are trying to soak me on the parts price they better think again. On top of that I requested all old parts back, not that I want to keep but that I will be looking at them to verify they are indeed bad.
What kind of truck is this again? $500.00 apiece for steer drums is crazy as hell.
92 Western Star door tag say WS-16 front axle?
I would run the vin # and find out the drum number and take your time looking for some drums. It probably is using a 5" shoe on a 16K axle. Either way I would do some shopping. IMO
I will give the dealer a call and get the number and see. They assured me absolutely no one in the city has these, and $1000 is the best deal. They said they tried the dealer, greggs, fgi, fleetbrake, traction, a few more I can't remember. Covered all the places I know of.
When, in general, did trucks go electronic and start to suffer downtime caused by sensors etc? Are 94 Petes with L10. for example, still reliable? Is it like excavators and tractors, the Tier N crap that came in 5 years ago? I bet it was earlier with road-going trucks that the emissions hoopla started.
Pretty well started with Detroit Diesel mid 80s DDEC Detroit diesel electronic control Moved to Cat next with the ‘E’ series truck engines early/mid 90s expanded to HPO High Pressure Oil operated systems most all suppliers late 90s with IH leading that to where we are now. That stated is becoming problematic for knowledge on older engines as us Old Guys are getting out of the market and moat newbies have dealt with few to no mall mechanical engines. The 94 L10 may very well be a M11 mistakenly listed as L10. Could be one of the last 10s built all mechanical as that is around where the M and N series began to where the ISX series is now. Emissions controls of various forms go back to mid 70s.
There have been sensors on them a very long time but the real bad down time started when they put the filters on them. This is because they also programmed them to punish the driver/owner if the computer thought something was wrong. They are very sensitive to perceived problems but often they miss real problems that are developing.
There is still a wealth of knowledge here in TX about Cat HEUI systems, because it's also on Ford 444 Powerstrokes (7.3) which remain very popular. Had a Cat-motor dump break down in our driveway and it was the IDM. Wonder if the 140v IDM mod works as well on a Cat as on a 444. Felt like +20 HP on my 2000 F-250.
They are ALL electrically Sensitive. '97 Pete I was driving with 3406E developed some sensor faults, in a domino type fashion, had been some welding done to the truck in recent past, had also been a VERY Close proximity lightning hit(less than 50 ft.) then the sensors began cascading into fault. ANY welding to be done on the Vehicle with these engines or even electronic drivetrain need to disconnect the batteries at a minimum. Even welding on a trailer behind them disconnect completely or disconnect the batteries totally.
I'm looking to buy a used tandem dump, so after reading this thread I spent time reading up on class 8 trucks. Peterbilt, Freightliner, Kenworth, International. I found out a few useful things. 1) To avoid emissions malfunctions and downtime, avoid built-after-January 1, 2007 EPA compliant engines. 2) Some guys like IHC for entry-level trucks, starter trucks, relatively reliable. After reading up on Navistar, I'd rather save up some more shekels and buy another brand. Navistar is a train wreck. I've worked at big companies, seen this kind of hubris and denial, but usually it only lasts a fiscal year until the board installs new execs. Navistar sued partners left and right, even sued Cummins, and peddled Maxxforce crap for years. Cat, to their credit, bowed out honorably instead of do SCR. https://infogalactic.com/info/Navistar_International 3) Peterbilt never ran to Mexico like Freightliner did, putting American workers out of their jobs. Petes are still built in Texas, so I think I'll buy a 2006 or earlier, SFFA tandem. Lots of Peterbilts to choose from.
Here in TX, agricultural rigs can get away with a lot more weight etc, no permit, no ticket.
Peterbilt went to Texas so Mexico could just cross the border. Don't fool your self. Cheap labor was a bigger attraction than lower taxes. Got 2 friends that work for the local dealer and go to Denton occasionally for factory seminars and that's what they see. Don't get me wrong, Peterbilt is my first choice too. I think Cat screwed Navistar pretty badly over the ill fated Cat "Vocational" truck and I wouldn't blame Navistar a bit for that breach of contract. 2006 or earlier... all them are about the same... all have weak points. I see a '96 Navistar with a 12L Series 60 once a week. 1.2M miles on that old critter and it's on the road everyday. It's all about the care they get. I know of a mid 80's Ford Big nose Louisville still on the road every day, It's the company flagship and they treat it very well, almost 2 million on that one. And people say big Fords are junk too. All in how they are treated.
Denton is way up north of DFW in the panhandle, 350 miles from the closest border with Mejico. Texas has lower taxes, which attracts business. Texas is 43% hispanic last I looked. A lot of our hispanics are multi-generational Texans. I'm hispanic / european but nobody notices that here. Just sayin' I appreciate Pete staying in the USA. Having read this entire thread now, I should probably start a new one on my own tandem dump search. lol
The cabover petes 320 and 520 are made in the mexico plant. Lots of the wiring harnesses come from there as well
Chicago is far from MX as well yet the largest population of Hispanics in the US reside there, makes little difference as to where trucks are built these days as parts come from everywhere. I prefer KW Construction designed trucks, even the Older IHC/Navistar's as yes, they are a lot easier as are or tend to be simpler to work on and cheaper on the wallet as parts seem to be everywhere. S series IH/Navistar trucks were all too popular with State Maintenance departments and are VERY prevalent as to repair parts used or new. If looking for a initial beater to develop a working use and not too concerned of scrapes and dents even the old LN/LT/LTL Ford series are not bad yet parts are beginning to thin. BIGGEST Mistake most newbies to dump trucks will make, buying a Recon of a old Highway design Road Tractor into a Cheap Dump chassis. Most are single frame(Flex too much and crack a LOT) accept four spring suspensions as good, try changing one under a dump bed, or buy a air ride as they Ride Nicer(they too tend to side roll with the bed up and are lay over bait unless equipped with a dump valve and that does not eliminate the problem). Better suspension, Beam rides. Hendrickson rubber ride or spring ride will transport the weight better less downtime to repairs and less apt to lean over too far without added intentional configuration adjustments during a dumping. Also generally are under heavier frames if not double frame chassis.
Hendrickson also has way better traction off road. I think the wheels oscillate a lot more.
Turns out it was just under $250 a drum and $200 shipping, the $1000 was a ballpark. Still not cheap but that's the same price I found phoning around. Although I was annoyed they didn't tell me it was coming from the Freightliner dealer as I could have gotten a better deal as I know the Foreman very well.
The more I use/go over the truck though the more pissed I am at the shops complete incompetence. I showed up to pick it up, it's running, not just started it's at operating temp had to be running at least 30 mins. Owner came over after a bit and he's response was "It was running because I was going to move it". First thing I hear with it off is the control tower for the box controls leaking still, and he tells me "we try not to be picky". Umm the truck fails a pre-trip and shouldn't be on the road with that bad of a air leak. There was another air leak at the rear axles which I had them fix. One hub cap and all stud covers missing on steer axle, never found them instead gave me some oil to make up for it. Lost the extra 2 good tires. Specifically told them air brakes on trailer weren't working and to make sure they are fixed. Still not working. Charged for fixing exhaust leaks, but I counted 3 leaks behind the cab. They are small and don't bother me but my issue is the bill was high to begin with when I thought everything was fixed well, but now that so much wasn't fixed the bill is ridiculous in my opinion. I've attached a copy, what do you guys think? While their labor rate is low, about $20/hr cheaper then most places I still think overall it's too many hours labour for what was done. An issue that has popped up since I got the truck back is a shaking at higher speeds. Not the truck shaking, but like a tire shaking the truck. It's done it enough in different spots to know it's not the road. Both steer tires and 2 drives replaced all brand new. My thoughts would be possibly a tire out of round or is there someway to install the budd wheels wrong to cause it? It comes and goes, but it's pretty good shake when it's going.
Something else that popped up that has confused me while the truck had a small oil leak on the drivers side before, they said it leaked really bad in one of their bays, then outside when I came for it there was probably a 16" circle of oil under it, they said it was only from it but no idea. They said they believed it was coming from behind pump on drivers side. So I have watched it closely since but it's only leaking a tiny bit here and there, oil level hasn't budged. Probably 1 hour of idling and 2 hours of driving since. I know the truck has sat a lot the last few years, but if a bad oil leak popped up it make no sense it would go away again?
That leak behind the injection pump may be bad o-rings between the pump and block. It can come and go depending on the temperature of the engine. if it is leaking at that point, the pump will have to come off the engine to repair it. (NOT cheap). If those guys charge that kind of money and don't fix the problems.... You are getting HOSED. Find another shop.
Yea I just found it odd, after pulling the hoe would be the worst time to leak because engine is hot, but nothing any of the times. I wouldn't dream of taking it there if it needs that, owner admitted he doesn't even know how to remove pump. Another mechanic said probably 1 day to remove 1 day to put back, which I don't believe it takes that long for someone who knows what they are doing.
I feel your pain. Major Overhaul in Edmonton seems to be a pretty good place for truck repairs. They had a dump truck for sale from a customer that owed them money. I didn't buy the truck but they were very helpful. The owner took me for a ride in the truck around the shop and explained everything to me about the truck and what to look for in a used truck. When I bought a truck at an auction a few years later I wanted to take it there to have a once over. I thought the GF's father in law could drive it there for me but it didn't have an inspection and wasn't a brand new truck so no way. If you drove a truck for 40 years I think you should be able to tell pretty quick if you think it's road worthy. I've never drove a tandem so basically looked on the web for how to drive it. It drove great, me not so much. I made the mistake of taking it to First Truck Center on the South Side because it was closer and they were open on weekends. Their rate was $160/hr. in 2015. Other shops were $120/hr. They changed the oil, checked the coolant (PH?), checked for codes and other basic stuff and charged me around $1000. They said one diff. the fluid didn't look the best so I had them change it. That was close to another $500. It was listed as having a broken spring on the right side. I asked how much to replace a spring and they said they normally put a complete new spring pack in. I asked the foreman to show me (it was a different foreman from when I dropped it off). He couldn't find a broken spring and since then I've had half dozen people look at it and no one saw a broken spring. I talked to City Spring and they said if it's just one spring, that's all they have to replace. I think they were trying to get money for repairs not needed. The other thing is they changed fuel filters and the one filter wasn't even hooked into the system. I think it was an additional filter with a primer pump added at some point but disconnected and the hose made a loop from the outlet back to the input. I realized this when I pushed the primer and it didn't do anything. The truck would start and run 30 seconds and lose prime overnight. I have since found if you hold the idle at about 1100 it will get it enough fuel to keep running and can then idle normal. How does a competent shop/mechanic not realize a filter isn't hooked up and the primer does nothing? https://www.majoroverhaul.ca/
That’s good to know, definitely need to find somewhere new. Too bad you went to south side location, good friend of mine is foreman at first truck in west end and knows his stuff. Did you deal with Mark there? He’s never turned a wrench in his life and is a douche. City spring is great, west end first truck won’t even touch suspension they just take trucks there because that’s all they do and it’s cheap. I think their rate now is $180 or $190 which is why I don’t take my truck there. But I bet my bill would have been the same as I paid and they stand behind their work. He said they get that a lot, lower rate shops tack on so many extra hours to make up for lower rate. Setting up building at my yard to do most stuff for what it costs it makes sense. Anyone can fix lights, air leaks, basic stuff and save a lot.
I think the SS location was trying to tack stuff on and they were already a lot higher rate. When I picked the truck up they just gave me the keys. That's when I looked at the invoice and it said broken spring. The guy from the service counter walked out with me but wasn't familiar with what was done. The foreman at the time seemed annoyed I asked him to go over the truck with me and show me the broken spring. I had to wait about 10 minutes for the foreman to come out and he was like, what do you want? Not impressed at all. I did go into the West end location once looking for an odd part and the parts guy there seemed pretty good. Didn't have what I was looking for but suggested where I might get it.
Good shops are becoming less prevalent these days, have two here where I will allow to change a tire or service my light equipment but NOT touching my older and more serious service machines or doing any heavy maintenance. The Pete shop when was driving replaced the bad differential in that truck, went Meritor Reman as was "Cheaper" yet got to doing numbers and do not think so where also took a full week to get it swapped then had issues with the thrushaft leaking, failed to check the bearings in that and had tons of metal run thru it. Just not many shops I trust anymore.
I felt bad about hijacking this guy's thread so I started a new one and answered you there. HeavyEquipmentForums