A c13 (kcb) I'm considering is not holding OEM head gaskets. The head is a new OEM CAT and the mechanic suspects a block deck issue. The rest of the motor is in good shape, despite approximately 650k miles on the current build. The liners are in good position. Is it advisable and is there a sealant to use on a new head gasket that would address the problem? I'm not able to sink $ for a full rebuild, but was only going to do main and rod bearings along with the head gasket work. This motor also has the single turbo conversion and tuned to about 510hp Thoughts?
I have a pretty good idea, but you are not going to like it. If this engine originally had IVAs, which I'm guessing it did, they are no longer functional, since it has been converted to single turbo and has a tune. That engine will NEVER hold head gaskets because you are running an absolutely ridiculous amount of cylinder pressure due to having too high of compression pistons for how it is being operated. Of course, if this issue was addressed at the time of the tune, disregard this information.
Just to clarify, I haven't bought this motor and am weighing the risks. My current c13 vented the block with a rod, so I am shopping around. I'm not sure if the pistons in this motor were changed during the turbo work but that's a good point. The current owner has tried two head gaskets already plus a new head, as described in my original post. The motor is now on a stand, out of the truck. If there are too many red flags/risks, I have no problem walking away from it.
You don't consider the fact that you are here asking what kind of sealer to use on a head gasket on an engine that seems to have a propensity for blowing out said gaskets a big enough red flag???
I'm considering everything. I'm not an engine expert or diesel mechanic so I'm gathering info.
Lemme guess. Your KCB has a big ol’e hole in the block where the connecting rod escaped?
Anywho, welcome to the HEF Mr. Husker Farmer. Good to have you. We have the skill. We have the tools. And we know how to chat. If you are looking for a Forum,, the HEF is where it’s at.
To answer your question. No. There is no magic sealant. The problem is the liners have worn into the block deck and the block needs to be repaired.
I use Kopper Kote on a ton of head gaskets......but I don't believe it will repair this problem.
Have used that product on head gaskets since the mid 1970's and it's still a good product albeit $$$ nowadays.....
IMHO there are steps you should take regarding this engine - f'kin big ones in the opposite direction......
Nige, if there is one man on here that I would give anything to have a few drinks with, you would be it. I'm still chuckling an hour later. Well done.
Pew.
Max out of deck range end to end .002, but there is also the possible issue of a slight twist diagonally corner to corner. if that is just .001 combined with the .002 and fretted counter bores-----------.
Thanks, that's helpful. Can a good engine shop or machinist measure this without tearing down the engine?
For any deck measurements the top end needs to be stripped and for the most accurate measurement the block surface needs to be cleaned with a fine sand paper. To make sure nothing is obstructing the procedure. More than likely because it's already had two head gaskets--the block has been subjected to X amount of scrapers and abrasives, next to liner bores is where the low spots will be found.
Not to say this works on diesels I would never try it. In the olden days of flat head engines if Copper Coat wouldn't hold--Then the last ditch was Indian Head. Coat both sides torque head let set 24 hours run for 1/2 hour to cook the Indian head. To remove head remove head bolts and start engine. *
Good old "Indian Head". A big prybar in an intake port worked on small Chevy engines to break them free once gasket shellac was used.
Here is what you want: https://www.amazon.com/401612-Copper-Coat-Aerosol-Wt/dp/B000M8NZ8E/ref=asc_df_B000M8NZ8E/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=312097317052&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=16615440600561535012&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9022077&hvtargid=pla-569142974371&psc=1&mcid=1e3ea1dc58a73e10aca8c53e58760411&tag=&ref=&adgrpid=57631863970&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvadid=312097317052&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=16615440600561535012&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9022077&hvtargid=pla-569142974371&gclid=Cj0KCQiA1rSsBhDHARIsANB4EJYR8Vt4O0EG6ejIJhm_5HWbJv-AWIoP7zU3aTfpO-hTBYU86it0kEkaArNnEALw_wcB
I don't want any of that. Hard to find a intake or exhaust port on a flathead.
That's when the railroad pinch point pry came out pivoting/fulcrumed on a 4X4 standing on a frame rail for the leverage while you forced upward bearing against casting flash, the "ledge" that slightly overhung the block surface, or a bolt or stud threaded into a mounting hole for some bracket. If that didn't work, you drove a very stiff blade scraper between the deck and head in several places to destroy the gasket and bond. Gawd, I remember the days. Better to do things right, but all kinds of cowboys out there..... Seen a guy in high school run the valves on a 302 Ford engine in a Maverick and used gasket shellac on the gaskets along with a brand new set of Mickey Thompson polished covers. No Polylocs and solid lifters so next time he wet to adjust, you guessed it, the original stamped rocker covers went back on as the nice aluminum ones had pieces broken out of them getting them removed from the engine.
I don't know loosening the head bolts/draining coolant hit the key-pop.
I imagine on a diesel that would work. Never seen it used on head gaskets on an OHV gasoline, or diesel engine myself. Older flatheads; seen it a lot.
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Worked on a straight eight flat head.
Buick?
Well like he said my fix was that approach. A c12 damn near bolts in its place. Not that it is a favorite engine of many but we have good service from them.
I mean, surely Lucas, STP or some other such highly reputable company makes a bottle of some miracle snot to pour in there and fix everything right up . . .
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So maybe i missed it, but was the head gasket leaking only coolant or was it blowing the compression seal ring part at the liner surface?
Never said. Does it really matter though? We all know what is causing the problems, don't we?
C13 motors are available ex-factory rated up to 525 BHP but it is specific to fire truck applications and uses compound turbocharging. I would assume that the problem with this particular engine is that it doesn't confirm to any standard arrangement - therefore it is, and always will be, a ba$stard step-child when it comes to parts.
You are not familiar with the redneck delete process that goes on here? They convert to a single turbo, disable the IVAs, and stick a hotrod tune in it. They run 60-70 lbs of boost. Pull like a freight train until the head gasket fails because of the extreme cylinder pressures due to way too much compression.
On a some what related theme, in todays local paper: Oswego County man pleads guilty to violating Clean Air Act SYRACUSE, N.Y. (WSYR-TV) — An Oswego County man pled guilty in federal court in Syracuse on Thursday, Dec. 21, to violating the Clean Air Act. Matthew Talamo, a 38-year-old man from New Haven… www.localsyr.com
Hot rod tune--Cummins initiated the original factory blow your motor up with compound turbos combined with too much fuel all the way back in 1979 with the crazy *** 475 hp MVT. At a possible boost of 52 lbs, it broke head bolts and was guaranteed to distort the engine block. Long before IVA's and new era rednecks with a hoodly dang laptop.
I never did understand why an engine’s maximum rating could be increased for fire apparatus. Max power for a short burst? Ya right . Some of the firefighters i used to know could break an anvil. I would think they would want the best dependability out of an engine or just design the apparatus for a bigger engine. The bean counters sometimes have too much input into the final product
The firefighters around here could truly bust an anvil with little effort. They keep in shape by beating their own chest and drums, along with locals doors for "fundraising" all while attempting to break their own shoulders patting themselves on the back.
I have yet to find a bean counter that smart, not going to get their cotton dockers dirty.
I never said bean counters were smart—just in some situations have too much input
They are designed that way because they know most fire trucks don't even pass 100,000 miles in a lifetime. Same ratings usually for RV which also get similar low miles. I never had much problem with head gaskets but I suspect rods and mains suffer, but who cares, it all heads to a scrap yard long before it ever becomes a problem. Every truck or piece of machinery has its expected life span before it turns to razor blades.
New Tesmec M5s are powered by 496 HP C13B’s. They’re designed to grind on solid rock at 100% load all day long.
Fire trucks/RV's rated high HP. Ones around here are defiantly nothing special. Now a Fire Truck for a AIRPORT yes. The local airport has a runway that will accept the largest of aircraft like 747. Their old Oshkosh crash trucks that articulated in the middle were powered by EVERYONES favorite on HEF-The 8V-92, both trucks were rated at 575 Hp. I asked the Captain, Colonel, or Sargent in the airport fire department why so much HP? This was 18 plus years ago. answer was- To meat FAA rules for response we have to be able to suit up and be at a crash scene in X amount of time--That means this truck with full load be able to hit 70 right F-----n Now, And we get tested periodically. * Now for a High Horse Power RV------That's just some or a few rich Booomers showing off their crap while towing the Harley's in a trailer they never ride.
He is and/or was accurate in response capability. Numbers depend upon airfield capacity and traffic count/density of large heavy aircraft. Most everything around here is built around Caterpillar engines given their presence to the local area. 500+ hp engine ratings are common in the heavy response vehicles on larger airfields.
That's why I posted what I posted--I seriously doubted he was pulling my leg. Because my old company was/is located at the airport I was contacted from time to time to work on the plow trucks and fire trucks. ---Imagine that, TS working on a Detroit powered fire truck.
All I know I tried the 505 1550 turque horse rv file in the c12 powered dump truck the 430/1650 standard setting was way more drivable. It was acting like a 671 I guess 100 ftlbs means something
Now High Horse Power Buses---Yeah----The Washington State Penitentiary at 1313-13th Street Walla Walla has three. Chain Gang Buses, one spare that's kind of a dog with a 8V92. The other two are 550 Hp 3406 E powered. Dwight my farmer friend when he worked for Cat would take them for a test drive and stop by the shop, Chain rings all along the floor with guard cages front and rear. He took me for a short ride at the port--that bus would COOK. * Now the spare was used about 11 years ago, last it was used, it exploded on highway 12 just before the Twin Bridges crossing the Snake River near Pasco. Which caused some issues, the highway was shut down to one lane while waiting for another transport bus form the Pen. Once it arrived highway was completely shutdown, every available law enforcement officer in Washington State Patrol & Benton County/Walla Walla county were on scene to off load a full contingent of high profile prisoners to fresh bus. You never know who is going to reside at the pen--11 of the worst serial killers on record reside here for one reason or another, Home to gary ridgeway green river killer--Kenworth's top painter.
Must have gone nuts from the paint fumes
Pretty close to what actually caught him, in the end it was Kenworth's types of paint mixes that ended up on his clothes and transferred that put him away, forensic science at work.
I remember that.
What about an MCI MC-6 with a Buzzin' Dozen? That'd have to have some get-up-and-go. Pity they strangled the engine back to 400HP, though. Bus Stop Classics: MCI MC-6 "Supercrusier" - Six Inches Too Far Ahead of Its Time - Curbside Classic (first posted 4/8/2017) Unless you’re a certified bus fan (and a certified old guy), it’s unlikely you’ll recognize this coach. Motor Coach Industries (MCI) built only 100 of them for […] www.curbsideclassic.com
Which cylinders are blowing out?