Just curious.
Based on my understanding yes. There are certifications for different processes as well as positions. Not necessarily a one size fits all certification. Junkyard
Just ask him what processes he is certified and by who...there are many weld processes in addition to stick, like mig, tig, submerged arc, laser, friction, spot, resistance and the list goes on. Howard
The guy does a really nice job at mig welding but I was surprised I had to show him how stick weld. I'm not certified but the different certs explains things. Thanks
There most be a 100 or more welding certifications. I worked as a welder at a place that had 60 or more guys that were welders maybe 4 could stick weld. In my eyes alot of the certifications are a Joke. that place they gave you 2 trys to pass then on the 3th they put some one with you to help you pass. I was surpriced at the guys that passed the first time and the ones that didnt.
As owner of this company, I can make you a "certified welder" if you want to be one, Rob. (all it'll cost you is starting a new thread on how much better a mechanic I am than you :angel ). It's all in who he's certified by, and what he's certified for. Even if he has a meaningful certification, a lot of guys who are certified in certain processes in manufacturing, and new construction, are lost when you put them under a filthy, rusty machine to do repair welding.
This is going to sound bad ... but my experience over the years is .. If a guy uses the phrase " I am a certified welder" during a conversation about welding odds are he passed a test at a vo-tech or some other type of class and probably doesn't have a whole lot of experience ... Good welding takes practice and repetition of proper techniques to give good physical and aesthetic results ... nothing beats experience ... no card or paper will ever replace that ...
Friends relative is underwater weldor. That he can do. Put him down there with a properly prepped joint, and he welds it. Repair under his car at the farm (weld an exhaust pipe leak) ? Lost. I joked, we should toss his car in the pond, then he could suit up, go down there and weld his exhaust pipe.
What does the title mean? If a carpenter can frame walls and nothing else, is he really a carpenter? If a mechanic can change spark plugs and nothing else, is he really a mechanic? If a welder can't cut, fit and weld steel at least stick and MIG, I don't think I would call him a real welder. If an operator can only run a roller and nothing else.....
... Certified Roller Operator.
I know a lot of folks that have earned a certification in Bull Sh*t. Been even accused of having one myself. LOL
If you think about it stick welding field repairs probably count for 1 percent of the welding trade I do know a few stick welders that cant wirefeed worth a hoot and waste tons of time burning rod
Exactly! There are so many different welding applications, and the different welding processes. "Certification" is a meaningless word when there isn't some specific context. Structural is different from fab, pipeline, aerospace, industrial, field repair, etc., etc. RobVG, So yes, someone could be an experienced, expert, certified tig welder in aerospace welding, and have never touched a SMAW (stick) electrode. Edit: Howard already said it! I need to read first, then comment...
The usual agency for structural welding in this state is the Washington Association of Building Officials, WABO, and they do have certain tests for welding on structures. The general test was for stick welding on things like buildings, signs, any kind of railing and so on and so forth. The standard test was a horizontal and an overhead fillet weld on plate. There were a few community college instructors actually certified to give and grade the test. There was also a written test that had to be passed. Someone with the WABO cert usually knew what they were doing. They also had a cert for squirt guns but I never had to do that. Outside of that for this state there were private certifications given by the ship yards and the aircraft manufacturing industries. The ship yards when they were big here did all kinds of exotic alloys, out of position on plate and pipe welding. I seem to recall the boilermakers also had some tough pipe fitting tests and standards. The big thing is that most of those guys have retired or passed on from all the nasty stuff they were breathing. Technology has also changed just how much anyone uses stick anymore also. Most of the schools work with the little beer can squirt guns now. Sometimes someone will set up a dual shield with 0.45 or 1/16 wire just to show the students what is was like. Stick still has it place but most of the trucks I see now have a suit case and usually a bottle of steel mix. Stick just doesn't compare in speed.
In the early 90's I sort of quit working on trucks for two years and worked for an irrigation and domestic well and pump business welding pipe and building fittings. I worked two Bureau of Reclamation jobs the company landed. I had to test with stick both times. 6010 root pass with a 7018 cover and be able to weld up or down on vertical. I passed it wasn't much of a test. But I was told the certification only lasted til the completion of the project. I had to test for both jobs. I can run wire or stick. But what I find anymore is few people can gas weld. I always liked brazing. Had to repair several pump housings that way. Truck Shop
LOML's ex was a GM journeyman welder (skilled trades, lol) idiot couldn't weld to save his arse......a blind man with a bad seeing eye dog could've done better. Ed
Gas welding. I used to do a lot of exhaust systems with a 00 tip and 1/16" gas rod. Fun, like TIG welding only better, lol.
Dad taught me gas welding when I was about 13yo, lying under cars welding patches onto rusty mufflers.
My dad was a high school welding instructor. He taught his dad gas welding when he was about 80 years old. He used baling wire for filler metal. He would spend his days down in the farm shop making livestock panels and feeders out of square steel tube and such. Some of the first ones were so awful over heavy we could barely move them but Grandpa's engineering quickly improved and he made very practical ones after that, man gates inside wide gates, modular panels, etc. Dad tried to move him on to arc welding once he had the gas part down but he did not want to learn a new way so he stuck with gas.
I was at a Amish farm workshop and they did just the same, gas welding/brazing only. Then I was at the LWS (local welding supplier) and an Amish guy was buying the latest inverter rig. I wanted to ask (as it had autolink and would run on many different voltages) "Where on the horse do you plug it in ?".... But I just smiled.
I still love brazing more than any of the other processes. Big problem is these old eyes have a hard time with focus and making those pretty beads that polish out so nice. I did learn to gas weld pipe many years ago. I understand that is what they still do on natural gas lines. Anyone know if that is true?
Yair . . . I understand here in Ozz in the past, some gas lines were welded with TIG on the root pass and filled down hand with stick . . . I would be interested for an update on current practice if there is someone out there up and doing. Cheers. *P.S. I just took some time out to look at a couple of pages Google Images bought up with the search term "welding gas pipe lines" and it sort belies the often quoted line that stick is an antiquated process.
I haven't seen much oxy-fuel welding last 20 years or so...but have seen stick, mig, TIG, laser, stud, spot, friction, stir process, and at my personal shop, it is mainly stick, mig, flux core, braze and solder. Not certified, but bring in skilled labor to weld critical joints. Howard
Recently one of our trucks came in with a leak at the bottom of the power steering reservoir. I told the young start-up we have working in the shop to remove it, clean it and fix the leak. He had the mig gun ready to go and I pulled a ROBO COP on him. {YOU THERE STOP WHAT YOUR DOING**. I told him to braze it the reply was-I don't know how to gas weld. So gas welding class 101 began. It turned out a little rough but not bad for a first try. Truck Shop
Last year I welded some door and window openings on a shipping container (14 gauge steel) and I used flux core, stick and gas. I'm equally unskilled in all three. I never decided which was best or easiest but ended up finishing it with stick since it seemed the most economical.
Have not seen any big gas lines but all steel lines around the job sites are arc welded. We typically dont install over 4" line. Nearly all of the feeders installed to the projects by the gas company are the yellow plastic looking stuff tht they electrically fuse togather.
Scrub, Yes. Transmission pipeline welding was 6010 stick for the root pass and 7018 filler and cover, downhill as you say. (The root weld needs to be smooth and clean on the *inside* of the pipe, without any back-side protection, as there's no way to put it there on the inside of the pipe...) Pipeline welds are about always x-ray inspected. All tig weld pass welds are typical for high pressure industrial and boiler pipe, exotic alloys and chrome molly pipe. A tig root and stick filler/cover welds are a typical American Welding Society pipe weld certification tests in vocational tech welding programs. Shop made transmission pipe welds are now typically gas shielded wire feed welds, with a dual wires and torches machine, one wire for root passes and the other wire for filler and cover passes. This is done in the shop or the yard to double sections of pipe, and halve the number of field welds. The gas shielded wire welding machines are special, with electronic arc control, to allow short-arc weld transfer without any chance of 'cold welds'. (That's a 'new thing', short-arc transfer was always a big no-no for any strength-dependent weld...) The field welds of transmission pipeline are still typically stick welds, as gas shield doesn't work when the wind blows, and wire-feed suitcases and bottles are heavy and torch whips are short. With stick electrodes, the cable with a stinger and a handful of rods is all the welder needs to drag to the pipe. There is always a 'fit-up' weld of a sharp bend in the line, or a make-up connection, that has to be made down in the trench. IMO, the pipeline welders are to welding like paving crews are to equipment operators, and maybe like chaining crews were in the outback too; peripatetic. Every foot of a hundred mile highway has to be paved, every mile of a pipeline is traversed by the welders. The pipe crews I've been around were very sturdy guys...
Yair . . . Thanks so much for the info Jim D. It is of only academic interest to me these days of course but, us old codgers need to keep our minds active and recall stuff and think. As you confirm I would have thought wire feed would be a nightmare in the wind and mud and crud of some pipe jobs. It used to amuse me to see D8's fitted out with 400 amp Hobarts and the X-ray equipment mounted on the ripper frames. . . seems like they could have used a smaller tractor. (Grins) Cheers.
Yair . . . Thanks so much for the info Jim D. It is of only academic interest to me these days of course but, us old codgers need to keep our minds active and recall stuff and think. As you confirm I would have thought wire feed would be a nightmare in the wind and mud and crud of some pipe jobs. It used to amuse me to see D8's fitted out with 400 amp Hobarts and the X-ray equipment mounted on the ripper frames. . . seems like they could have used a smaller tractor. (Grins) check I like your thinking. Over here it is possible to buy very good quality Asian electrodes for under five bucks a pound. Cheers.
LISTING OF CODES https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_welding_codes Transmission pipe lines ARE welded with Dual Shield mig wires, they have portable wind proof house wrapped around the pipe typically with 2 welders & 2 assistants doing wire bushing, scaling etc... My neighbor is the US Regional manager for a multi-national outfit that does off shore drill rigs, petro storage tanks (with floating roof), water towers etc...all covered under API certifications. I get lot of valve repair work out of the outfit, pays great. Replacing petro storage tank floor, old sections cut out in pie shape, new welds with Jap Hyundia E7024 rods 5mm x 27" length. Another life long buddy, his shop is ASME certified; welding stainless heat exchanger tubes to steel headers is all tig work using 309 rods.. Welcome to This Little House https://youtu.be/p_-2Apzy5mc Be safe guys
Yair . . . Gotcha StanRUS. An old mate (since passed on) was telling me about three foot long electrodes as thick as a finger that were used for prefabbed flat sections of vessels in a shipyard . . .the arc was started and the special holder was rested on the plate and the rod just burnt away. One operator ran several holders . . . this was in Brisbane in the early fifties. Cheers.
If you had a Mini that was a good skill to learn .....
I had a picture in a welding book detailing that, and can't find it anymore. They made special holders that ran down a ramp, you ran rod much like 7014/7024 coating. The picture showed a small Japanese man in a post WW2 ship yard welding bulkheads to plate, he ran from holder to holder and had kept several welding that way. IIRC he had qty (10) going all at once in the picture.
Gas line practices...asked a pipeliner friend, working in the Marcellus fields last year. 8010 root and cover, 100% x-ray.
Mini exhausts were cheap enough to throw away, much more fun to be had welding mini rear subframes however . I seem to remember spending an inordinate amount of my youth patching triumph spitfire and dolomite exhausts, and ford escort and V6 cortina chassis. There's nothing like molten underseal dripping on your arms to make you wish that you listened harder at school and got a job in a bank.