Good evening, I'm looking to attend school this year for starting a career in Heavy Duty Mechanics, I wanted to ask folks that do this for a living before spending all this money and time. I'm also starting this venture in my 30's and want to make sure I have options as a heavy duty mechanic. It will be hard for me to start over in my 40's. As an Apprenticeship will I have work available? I've already been looking and most companies aren't looking for a newbie for job listings. I also know the Alberta oil fields are dead so I'm getting cold feet and haven't even applied for sept yet. about tools, what's an average cost $10k average to be ready working on such big machines, my background is working on cars & trucks but this is a different beast. I wanted to ask here first and hopefully could get some solid answers. thank you
If I had a any son's [which I don't, no children at all to be precise-except for a step daughter} I would have told them to set the bar higher in life than I did. Is that a good answer? Sorry It's just my opinion. If I had it to do over again I would do it different. I'm not trying to spill the beans off your plate do what you think is right for you. No one can make that decision for you. Good luck.
Sounds like you are in Canada. Your career track and training requirements will be much different than what is commonly done in the states. My favorite Canadian diesel and heavy equipment schools are; Medicine Hat college Northern Lights College Grand Prairie Regional College There are better career options. But, this one is good if you like working 7 days a week in crappy places and bad weather, don’t have a family and like destroying your health. Better ditch that wife if you want to live this life. tools? Sure $10k to start with. Then you will continue to spend money for the next 20 years. Once you get tooled up, you will be close to retirement or disabled. Then, sell them for pennies on the dollar. commercial HVAC with an emphasis on controls. Fix medical equipment like x-ray machines. Become some flavor of electrician
There’s a lot of negativity in those two posts. I understand where it comes from though. I work a 40, sometimes 50 with overtime work week. I get excellent vacation time and decent benefits. I use the lifting equipment and such so as not to destroy my body. You don’t have to dedicate your life to this 24/7. I do this job with about 10k in tooling, I buy used as much as possible and stay the hell off the Snap On truck. You don’t need a $15k toolbox and $500 wrench sets to do the job. it’s not the easiest job but it’s a rewarding one for someone who is mechanically inclined and likes problem solving and it’s a job that lets you go just about anywhere you want. the biggest factor for you is your age is starting a little late. Not impossible mind you but it’s going to be quite a shock to your body if you are out in the elements all the time as a field mechanic or standing on concrete all the time in the shop and aren’t used to either.
All good advice, I only have one suggestion. Maybe seek out the operating engineers union in your area . Find out if you can apprentice through your local. You won't be saddled with student loan debt. It might be hard right now. As you mentioned, the people's republic of America under Komrad Biden killed the klondike pipeline. Good luck.
You ever get tired of draining oil out of **** and pouring it back in? Changing filters, constant mess with crap running in your sleeves? I do what I do cause I got to but i hate that with a passion.
It's the health issues that go with it-No Country For Old Men.
It’s a hellofa lot easier if u can specialize in 1 thing.. Take your pic.. fuel injection is what I picked.. it was either that or heavy Duty transmission o/h.. I was good at both.. BUT every one of the HD Trans. people I talked to were missing fingers..!! Everyone at some point in time will need they’re injection pump fixed.!! It’s a gazillion dollar industry.. Same thing with electrical, or hydraulics.. Scan thru JUST TODAYS POSTS.. What r the main topics.?? Hydraulics & Electrics.. & yes you’ll b asked/ told u have to go out in the field.. but most of the work is “in house”.. So I say, specializing in 1 or 2 things is the way to go.. but that’s my opinion.. Good luck in what ever u decide.
I can certainly agree with everything said here. Other than the abuse the body takes and believe us when we say that. I love what I do. I personally think that you are late getting into the game. And I don't know how good of an auto mechanic you are. This job isn't that easy it requires a lot of creative thinking, constant problem solving, and thinking out of the box. I say this because I don't think highly of most automotive mechanics ( parts changers) . I'm not trying to put you in that category and there are a lot of parts changers in this industry as well. It's just been my experience that the one's that are good in my field can work on anything from a mini bike to a nuclear submarine. I am being facetious of course but I am not far from the truth. If I were you I would find someone that would hire you and train you rather than go into debt for a career that you may not like. I don't know what it's like in your market, but where I am from you fake it until you make it. If you have what it takes then you will make it If you don't... Well it's back to the drawing board. Good luck with the career change.
Sure just point out the highlights and fun why donchya?
I forgot rolling on the floor or in the dirt which adds to your mechanic pleasure.
I've worked in the industry almost fifty years now. I don't do the heavy wrenching anymore but am still asked for technical advise and plenty of troubleshooting knowledge. It has been an interesting career. The industry has changed completely from when I started. The field is where most of the heavy stuff was done when I started. Rebuild an engine under the trees, sure. Yard a transmission and torque converter out of a loader and rebuild both in a lean to in southeast Alaska. Sure, just be done before the 4th of July holiday. Pull the heads off a D8H in the winter and then get so much snow you can't get back to the machine for two weeks. Happened more than once. Now days it seems everything has to go on a truck back to a shop so that specialists can do all that technical stuff. Do your stuff with hydraulics, electrical and a lap top to tell you what is wrong. It won't be long before the machines tell you what needs to happen before they will be put to work again. The issue is that my career and everyone else's above was done from the perspective of looking backwards. You have to look forwards to decide what you want to do. The only comments that I can make is that the skill sets in this industry will enable you to work in nearly any other industry with only slight changes. I believe all the commentators above work all the hours they want. They can usually go anywhere they want and find a job. I would say most would never get stuck in an office and be happy. Many work for themselves in their own businesses. We all gripe about what we do, the rotten weather and the condition of our bodies after all these years. Keep in mind we are looking backwards. You are going to pay for training in one way or another no matter what you do. At least when it comes directly out of your own pocket, you have a say in what you learn. My personal motto seems to keep my moving forward. If you are not getting better, you are getting worse. Good luck to you and your future.
Our son has been, and is still a mechanic. He now works for a Cat dealer. He loves his work. His career path started in high school when he majored in the auto mechanics training classes at our district's tech school. He then attended one of the Dallas County Jr. colleges where he got a two year degree in auto mechanics technology. He was sponsored by Ford, and took classes part of the year and worked at a Ford dealer the other part of the year. Ford pretty much paid for this education. From there, with his 2 year degree, he started as a mechanic at the same Ford dealership. He quickly found that it did not pay much, due to "Flag Hours". He next went to work evenings at the local Peterbilt factory, where he placed transmissions in trucks on the assy line. Peterbilt cut back and he got laid off. Very next day he started as a mechanic at an independent import auto repair shop. Stayed there 5 years until the owner retired. Then, he immediately went to work as a field service mechanic doing oil changes for the local Cat dealer. He has since worked his way up to a mechanic in the Power Generation Division. It took him about 10 years to get to where he is now. He found that the real money is in either heavy duty equipment repair, diesel truck repair, or farm equipment repair. The oil field work is to be avoided due to the feast or famine nature of that work. This also shows that you do not have to have any diesel experience to get your start in heavy equipment repair. If you are smart, can learn, and are really good at diagnosis, you can move up quickly. I would say go for it. However, do not expect to start at the top. Just work hard and work your way up the ladder.
You have but one shot at life - make your career something you love to do. There is absolutely nothing worse than hating to wake up every morning to head to a job that you despise, no matter how much it pays. Been there, done that. "Find something to specialize in rather than trying to do it all - you will be better in your field, have fewer hassles and make more money." This was some of the best advice I every listened to. It pointed me into the direction that I took to get me where I am now. I have a great education but I hated sitting behind a desk. I could make lots more money in other fields but where will that get me - gold in a casket? I don't have to deal with employees or excessive government regulations. I can retire when I want to but I continue to work because I love what I do. Maybe I don't enjoy all the repairs so much of the time, but I'm happy with what I do and that is the most important thing in this life. Stay happy, stay motivated, think at least 2 steps ahead, stay out of trouble - everything else will fall into place with ease.
I think a big difference in HD mechanic skills today is the extensive use of computers for diagnosing and calibrating components. New mechanics have been referred to as technicians rather than mechanics and it's been suggested these technicians wouldn't know how to diagnose problems without a lap top telling them what's wrong. You could be a great wrench turner but if you aren't just as proficient with computers you could really struggle. I think it's like any other trade in that you have to take the good with the bad. If you find an employer that treats you well and you like the work stick with them instead always looking to find something better.
I'm not saying I didn't like what I do, If I didn't I surely wouldn't have spent the time, money and effort to build this.
That's different... That's a work of art!
HD mechanic? Best choice I ever made. Really good money in it if you're willing to go after the work.
I used to be a huge supporter of the university, state college and community college based heavy equipment & transportation programs. I still support the concept, but the quality of the the majority of these programs have declined. It’s difficult to explain why without going into the subject of academic politics. In other words, it’s super expensive to attend and the quality of education is poor. Of course, there are exceptions. I believe the Caterpillar ThinkBig programs are the best way to get started. Once completed, I think it’s possible to work a decent career at a Cat dealer. The beauty of the Cat ThinkBig program is that students are dealership employees. Which means they have been vetted and are held accountable by their sponsor dealer. Which greatly improves the quality of the overall classroom/lab experience. You are still paying tuition or fees to attend and have skin in the game. Except, Caterpillar Inc and your sponsor dealer are also chipping in their share of money, uniforms, text books and tools. Many dealers will transfer ownership of the tools to the graduate after work at the dealer for a few years.
Heads up about school and Covid. I would not attend a school right now unless someone else was paying for it. College students are getting ripped off. Lectures have been replaced by distance learning platforms. Lab time hours (working on equipment) has been reduced. The social distancing, sanitizing, masks, requirements have made lab time about worthless. According to friends of mine, still teaching in these programs. Plus, my observations as a advisory board chairman of a local program. For example. The diesel students at AVTEC in Seward, lost 21 days of class time last Fall because of infection and quarantine. They still had to pay for that, BTW. They got ripped off. The value wasn’t there. Everyone gets a good grade and graduates, sure. But the time was wasted and not much was learned.
Agree 100%. I haven't come across a better program anywhere than ThinkBig.
I think we might see a resurgence of Union-based training programs and 100% dealership based programs as the mechanic shortage gets worse and as university, state college and community college programs continue to fail.
I was on the board of directors for WWCC Diesel program at one time, When it got to the point that only 4 of a class of 30 would graduate. I quit.
Truck Shop, That’s a good point about WWCC and I’m glad you mentioned it. To be fair, I’m not that familiar with the John Deere Technology program, or the other OEM programs, for that matter. I mostly talk about ThinkBig, because of my familiarity with it.
Truck Shop, This is funny and sad. This is my experience, why some students in these programs fail to complete. I used to teach at a school in your OA. LCSC in Idaho. Just down the the road. The Idaho Department of Corrections would stuff my class full of halfway house transitional felons and recent releases. The school admin loved the tuition and it gave the social workers and PO’s something to do. Sounds great and gives everyone warm and happy feelings knowing these guys are going to improve their lives. Get a trade, one might say. It never worked. They brought their prison drama and scams to my classroom. Caused trouble all the time. The felons did not mix well with the 18 year old, fairly innocent, recent high school farm girl wanting to learn how to manage the family combine fleet. The recidivism rate was ridiculous. I was required to contact PO’s if Johnny gangster didn’t show up for class. Ten years of teaching in public school and I never had a ex-con graduate. I always battled with administration about that. Very few of these folks will pass a pre-employment background check in our industry, anyways. If they did graduate.
Funny story time. I was teaching at the University of Alaska. I had one particular class and year where only one student graduated from the 2-year certificate program in heavy duty transportation technology. But, I had three students get incarcerated. Schools love reports and tracking. I called it my incarnation to graduation ratio. My program had a 3:1 ratio. I made a chart to share at meeting. PowerPoint and everything. Got my pee-pee slapped for that. Lol. Same deal as Idaho. The Dept of Corrections kept stuffing my program full of half-way house guys. Same with Culinary. Diesel or Culinary. Always Diesel or Culinary. They must watch a lot of reality cooking shows and Diesel Brah re-runs in the pen.
I lot of it comes down to the quality and experience of the instructors. It seems like a lot of trade programs in general are being cut and get less and less funding. I also don't think there's as many students that are genuinely interested in the trades. I remember back when I went for apprenticeship training for welding they were running 3 shifts and there was a waiting list to get in. If you were late or sick more than 2 days or a combination of the two you were kicked out. Worked with a labourer who signed up for welding but was kicked out of 1st year 3 times. I'm not positive but I don't think he was allowed back a 4th time. Awhile ago I talked with an instructor and he said they used to teach more in the 6 week apprenticeship schooling period than they do now in the 8 week period. Some students are very serious about it but others have kind of a take it or leave it attitude. I always had knowledgeable and experienced instructors but some were much better at the actual teaching end of it than others. Remember one who was nice guy but just came across as very boring in the classroom. They're also making the requirements to get into school a lot easier. Someone who took a welding course in high school can challenge the 1st year apprenticeship. Normally you need 1800 hours in the trade working under a journeyman for each year. I went to one of the better trade schools and the best they did then was take 300 hours off each period. I still needed 1500 hours in the trade for each period.
I have a friend-25 year Cat veteran that took a job teaching at the big house in Walla Walla same thing. As far as students go a very high percentage are using it to get out of the basement at mom and dads house. As far as being on a board at least the one I was on-You show up set at a table with a group of people that are there for the title and eat doughnuts and drink coffee. The school really doesn't want any feed back or anyone making even a small wave. Shut up and nod your head in total agreement.
To some maybe, to me it was a major challenge. The end result had to be totally functional and workable.
Welder Dave gets it. 20 years ago, the students were held accountable in a competency-based format. You had to show up, you had to show progress and create deliverables, pass the competency tests and so forth. It was a major accomplishment to graduate. Once you did graduate, you were probably employable. Title 9 has changed all of that.
Maybe working/functional art is a better term? One thing true craftsmen of a trade have is taking pride in their work. There's a difference between between a true craftsman and someone just wanting a pay check. I was always taught to do the best job you can. I don't think a lot of the younger crowd subscribe to the being a true craftsman mentality. Several years ago a teacher at a school was suspended because he gave a student an F on an assignment. He wasn't backing down and had a lot of support from the public. I think the school board eventually reinstated him. The teacher said a student should at least make an attempt on an assignment and he'd do the same thing again. He could care less if it made the school averages lower.
I've worked with the ThinkBig students. I really don't see what was so great about the program. Just the regular apprenticeship program focused on Cat products instead of general knowledge.
That's roughly the time I was on the board, actually 1999. I tried a few of WWCC students in the shop, I had to start my class with 101 in the shop, pitiful doesn't even describe it well.
University’s and state colleges, in the past, had Bachelor and Masters programs to prepare vocational instructors. So journey level trades person could take classes so they could learn the teaching part. I went through a program like that in Idaho, after I started teaching. Those programs have been largely cut. The UA system cut the career and tech Ed instructor classes a few years ago.
Some of the things that make the ThinkBig program successful: A common and well developed curriculum. The instructors know what they need to teach and the presentations are provided. The teachers don’t have to spend time making their own stuff. The students are also employees. And thus, can be held accountable. The students have skin in the game. Cat Inc spends a lot of money to supply current machines and money to the programs. Which removes a huge burden from the school. The students are paid to learn during their time at the dealer. The dealer kicks in money, too. The students earn a real and transferable college degree. Sure, some people don’t care about degrees. Some people do. Especially mom and dad. Mom and Dad would like to see Jr. get a degree. That is also a benefit to the dealer because they like to have employees that can advance academically
The trade school I went to recruited top level trades people and taught them how to teach. They had top of the line equipment. It was one of only 2 schools like it. School administers from all over N. America came to see how it operated. In 1991 they converted it to a regular high school. They said the enrollment in the trades was really low. I think the school board stopped promoting the trades because they wanted a regular school for the fast growing population. I talked with a former teacher and he said the way they treated the trades teachers was horrible. They just tossed them around to other schools that needed academic teachers. The teachers had no say where they went or what they taught. They were just lumped in as teachers.
ThinkBig, or any other OEM program, is not the total answer. Dealers can only send a few students through and less than half of the graduates end up at the dealer, anyways. Construction company’s line up at the back door and steal the students by offering more money and promises. Like 92U 3406 said, some dealers have very good, in-house, training programs or local partnerships with a CC. Western States has such a program with a community college in Napa. One year. And, a good portion of those completer’s are every bit as good on the shop floor as a ThinkBig grad.
The early 90’s, late 80’s were difficult for vocational Ed. Lots of high school and college programs were cut in the PNW. My HS auto program was cut the year I graduated. Oregon Institute of Tech cut the Diesel Power program in 92, Blue Mt. CC cut their diesel program, and another 7 or so various schools. I don’t recall all of them, now.
I started my post-secondary adventure at South Puget Sound CC, in Olympia, when I was still in HS. SPSC cut their diesel program shortly after I started. That was a waste of money. Then, I went to Centralia College and graduated. Next, I did a block transfer of my credits and degree to Oregon Tech for my undergrad degree. Graduated just in time as they cut the program and let the door hit me on the way out.
This is the basis of all problems we are having in society today. I listen to my wife's constant complaints about her teaching job (7th grade) and the lack of enthusiasm , read as LAZINESS, with today's students. This NO CHILD LEFT BEHIND rule is the dumbest thing that has every happened. No child can be failed no matter what their true grade is - they just get pushed along with the rest of the herd and handed a useless diploma in the end. No need to wonder why Johnny can't read or do simple math. In the real world, you fail = you don't eat. Well, except for those government handouts which is who started the problem in the first place. I'll bust my ass until the day I die and I will do my best to never ask the government for anything.
We have Mo State Tech College not far from here at Linn MO. They think highly of their programs but seem to lack a lot of business understanding anymore as became more College than trade school. I graduated Ranken Tech in 1975, class of 33 graduated 15 at the end of 10 months crash course, next class was two year and earned a Associate degree but gained little value. Became stuck on taking Fed dollars for their programs so NO Fails became the absolute and they do graduate 90% as opposed to merit based when I was in. That stated was in mechanics until 1996 full time, side work extended until 2001 where I had not enough time to keep up with full time New career Power Station and 090101 happened. Side jobbed all thru the years trying to hedge income and make a better life only got beaten harder longer with not much added income. Have retired, could not have by staying mechanic, would still be knuckle busting to make a living where now do it as a hobby. Is not a Easy Life, tooling is expensive, changes a LOT and often where most burn out of trying to keep up much as I did. With newer technology changing on half year schedules may not be much of a repair but parts changing business in a few short years.
This is certainly interesting. Until now I never knew that there were so many schools and apprenticeship programs. In my market the only companies hiring kids out of such schools and programs a, are the dealers. I never had any training. I came from the school of hard knocks and the experienced mechanics didn't teach you much. Some will watch you struggle and come over and show you a better way. Most just watched you struggle. You had to really like what you were doing and have the drive to learn. If you were going to make it. I personally am against borrowing money for any kind of schooling. And I am not impressed by what comes out of these schools whether it be a trade school or higher education. I have met few people who got their borrowed monies worth. The rest just got processed through and in some cases came out dumber than when they started.
Ten years of teaching heavy & transportation technology in public Ed. I’ve been away from it since 2015. Watching my graduates develop their careers and grow. The ones that stuck with it, tend to stay in touch with me. I am excited to hear about marriages, kids, houses and promotions. Or, war stories about tough jobs and how they saved the day. With that said, I figure two out of twelve of my students, actually graduate and pursue careers as Techs in our industry. Some go other directions, drive truck, work in corrections, law enforcement, retail, military, incarceration, construction, automotive, farming, health care. Or, transfer to other programs. This is the scary part: despite the current safety culture and emphasis we place upon it, I’ve had six fantastic graduates get disabled within the first year of employment. Injuries on the job. Had to heal up and get re-training. One of my best grads developed an acute allergy to petroleum product exposure no after one year on the job. Eventually, a wiff of brakecleen or penetrating oil tore him up.
Paul, You are correct. State and private university, state college and even at the community college level, has become an industry fueled by the student loan system. I would not encourage a young person to spend money or create debt to attend University, unless it was for allied health, medicine, or engineering. Exceptions, of course. In Alaska, the top 10% graduates of a high school can attend the UA system for free. Or, receive the Alaska Performance scholarship and get $4,755 a year for graduating with High School GPA 3.5 and a ACT 25 or SAT 1210. In Alaska, very few people actually pay for their University experience. Between the native corporations, the GI bill and post-911 VA benefits, Alaska Performance and UA Scholars Program. That’s actually part of the problem. Since it’s free, not many students take it seriously.
In the UA system, native student retention is a huge issue. The school wants the sweet Native Corp cash cow, but the natives hardly ever graduate. Nobody can have a serious conversation about it because it becomes a race and culture issue and feelings get hurt. My native students arrive in the Fall for class. Instant culture shock going from a community of 100 to big city Anchorage. Many of the elders push the young men to learn mechanics. So, they choose my diesel program. But, the young men only do it because uncle told them. If luck holds out, they make it until Thanksgiving break, go back to the village and never come back.
Thank you for all the replies, very interesting at the negative comments about the career and not doing it if you could start over again. I wasn't 100% sure about the health issues many members mention. Is this from breathing in diesel smoke everyday. yes, I'm Canadian based: Ontario Canada to be exact and have slowly been looking what Alberta Canada can offer me. The schools here are booked into January 2022 but some are available for Sept, the cost doesn't concern me unless I'm not seeing the real numbers. example the one booked until 2022 is $15k https://flemingcollege.ca/programs/heavy-equipment-techniques I'm very good with computers and using normal diagnostic tools on normal cars//trucks, just haven't touched a excavator or bulldozer that's worth over $1million dollars. I see many companies still use equipment from the 70s,80s & 90s so back tracking what common problems those machines have will probably be a little hard since i never grow up around these types of machines. I'm aware I'm starting at the bottom like anything new & have dealt with many a**holes being your the new guy.
I see my question has gone off-topic (Three pages long)
I went through Think Big when I started. 2 year program, short 8 week semesters with working in the shop between which is where the program has its best value- taking the building blocks laid in school and building a real skill base on the real jobs. That said, I excelled in it because I was fiercely dedicated. I left behind a career with the government and threw myself into it because it was succeed or fail and I was determined to not merely pass but to dominate. I carry the same attitude to my work where I only accept success and the highest quality of work. But to observe the general population...most don’t have that fire and we are diminished for it. The true craftsman’s pride is gone and dead for the most part.
Continuing on: The native corps would buy my students complete Snap-on student tool sets, plus more. Nice work clothes, boots, PPE and all their books. Pay for the dorm and expensive food plans. Provide special resources like the Native Student Support Center. BTW, the only success we had was by operating special native-only, short term, non degree, cohort classes. Here is the interesting part, more often than not, my native students would gift or pawn their new $10K student Snap-On tool kits within the first two weeks of starting the program. We are in the lab working hands-on. Where’s your tools?, I would say. Lol. Uh, Uh, Uh. I don’t know. Did someone steal them? No. Where are they? Uh, Uh, Uh. All they had to do is show up and maintain a 2.0 for a free 4-year ride. We could not flunk them if they attended regularly. No matter what their performance was. All they had to do was show up. The Title 9 office would blame the non-native professors for the native completion rates. It got so bad that a Division Chair offered my professor colleague a $2,000 cash bribe to pass a student that only attended the first week of classes. !!!
Thank you for the honest reply, I'm coming from the flooring world doing nothing but tile/wood floors. so "up and down" all day wearing work boots. So I don't know if standing on concrete like you mention is the same thing for my feet. I thought about specializing in tile floors but everyone knows somebody, then advertising on my truck or trailer and with the rapid thief of tools I can't win. Even learning installing Granite,marble countertops seems like a closed door. They won't even hire you unless you have 5 years experience. I don't want a job anymore but a career that really interests me. I was going to become a auto mechanic when i was 18 but didn't have the money available. I now don't see any interest anymore working at the Chevy dealer, I'm always been interested in this massive machines and might be the time now.
KG14, We can’t tell you what to do with your career, but there is some great content in these posts about post-secondary education. If you read between the lines and consider the comments of the other guys. Buyer beware is what we are saying. We have this same discussion on a regular basis. Lots of new guys ask about careers info. Search the old posts. Lots of great wisdom. BTW, welcome to HEF!! Good to have you on board.
My issue with the ThinkBig program is the Cat dealer in this region is union and it is very hard to get enough seniority to actually have a career there that spans a decent amount of time.
I went to flemming and graduated top of the class. Could not find work worth doing afterwards because a few years earlier i got my self a DUI and that was still following me around. The work i did find i could not take since it would have been a big pay cut to what i was already doing. I was 24 when i went and it was difficult dealing with the kids right out of high school there because mom says they have to do something. Most of them disappear the second semester.
You and I are probably pretty close in age. I started my apprenticeship at 18 and was a Red Seal Journeyman just after I turned 22. I've tried my best to work smart, not hard. We have cranes, hoists, jacks etc. No reason to beat yourself up manhandling components. Shops take health & safety much more serious nowadays than they did even 15 years ago. Its a risky profession but it can be a very rewarding one too.
Also, there'll always be work in this profession for folks that are reliable and produce quality results. I got laid off early 2020 due to the 'rona. I found a new job and was back working in about a month.
Well............here goes my 2 cents worth LOL I have been fortunate enough to have experienced most the main phases of work in this business being Construction, Dealer, and self employment. I, like yourself, only had automotive experience when I was first hired into this industry at a construction company............I was 17 years old. My auto experience was not any type of training, but was just hands on flying by the seat of my pants. My first day the boss shows me a broken down Case 207D engine that had all the machine work done, all the parts, ready to be assembled. He hands me the service manual and says "Get to it. If you have any questions, read the manual." Yeah, my jaw hit the floor as I had never even seen one of these engines. Took me 2 weeks, but I got it done and it ran perfectly! The confidence you gain in this type of situation will carry you forward, its something you NEVER forget. The moral to this story..............Sometimes the best way to learn is to jump into the fire. If you are mechanically inclined, have the proper tooling and information, and the drive to succeed and problem solve.....then you have what it takes to advance in the industry. I advanced from the above 3 years later.........4 different heavy equipment dealers over 8 years. Everything from skid loaders to 4100 Manitowoc draglines. My biggest issue working for a dealer was, after a couple of years I had done about everything that could be repaired for the lines of equipment that dealer carried.........basically, I got BOREDDD. Move to the next dealer, so on and so forth. We constantly hired mechanics fresh from schools with the school being the only experience they had. What I learned about them back then (early 80's thru 1990) was they were great when directed what to do. Need an injector pump changed out....they got it done, changeout a hydraulic cylinder, good as gold. What constantly kicked their asses was troubleshooting problems. It never seemed like they knew exactly how any system really worked, but they could change that part out! Look, I dont want to knock down the schools or the people that invested in them but back in the day they didn't really teach a lot to get you ahead in this game. Maybe things have changed? I don't know. The moral to this is.............You have to understand the when, where, how, what, and whys of everything heavy equipment. Every system whether its electrical, hydraulic, powertrain....whatever........if you don't understand how it is supposed to work its not easy to fix. If you don't understand what you are trying to do........then you become a parts changer, and those are a dime a dozen now days. Now, here is where it gets interesting! LOL In 1990 I was a field tech at my last dealer job. I was topped out in pay (within .50 an hour of top pay Cat field service) and had no where else to go. The customers were calling ME.....not my boss, and I started , really noticing that for everything I was doing I was making this company a crapload of money and in return I was getting pennies in comparison to the shop/field rates they were charging. SO......I just turned 28 years old and had the bright idea that "HELL, I can do better than this." ..........off to self employment I went. I am still self employed today...31 years later and have NO regrets. I have lived a full life of "Baptism by Fire" in this business and would have it no other way. Does it suck ass some days........you DAM right it does! You freeze your ass off, you feel like your dying of a heat stroke, your body sometimes says "ENOUGH!! MOTHER F%$#@*R!!!" ....But in the end this job, this type of work, the people, the rewards are endless. SO, here it is in a nutshell. Your 30 and late to the game.....so what. Your never too old to learn and in this business you will learn something new daily as long as your in it. Everyone that has replied here has great advise and that advise is based on our own experiences, good or bad. What you have to do is create your own path and apply the knowledge you gain as you go forth. DONT BE DISCOURAGED! DONT put yourself into debt for a career you may not enjoy with so many unknowns. You have a decent shot at getting on with a company as a trainee and get paid for it while learning. The industry is in desperate need for people that have enthusiasm and are willing to do what it takes to thrive in this business. Learn from the skilled old timers....yeah some are ********, but their experience is dying fast and that knowledge needs to be passed on to those worthy of it. LISTEN AND LEARN as much as possible and you WILL be successful. Besides, this forum has more experience and skill available to everyone that asks.........more than any school could ever offer and is a priceless tool for all of us.
92U 3406, Your Union comment makes sense. Union and ThinkBig don’t play well together.
Finning tried to break the union here for their parts guys several years ago. It was a disaster.
Union guys, I’m not Union bashing. Alaska is a non-right to work state. Can’t avoid Unions in my homeland. I had to join the Alaska Federation of Teachers to work at the University. Even joined the IBEW 1547 to work at a big Powerplant for a season. It’s a touchy subject, I know.
I will never make the mistake of working for a union shop a 2nd time.
I tried to play nice with the Operating Engineers in Spokane when I was teaching at LCSC. It’s just another opportunity for the graduates to pursue. The Local 307 thought we were competing for new students. I told them we should be working together. Why not allow my graduates, to enter the apprenticeship with an advanced placement.? They already have a lot of training and experience on their resume. It should count. Nope. The Local 307 would try and get my students to drop out of school to join the Union.
I’m surprised to hear that- I figured a state known for rugged individualism would not be such a state.
Me Neither, 92U 3406. Unless the IBEW 1547 dispatches me for a sweet $75 @ hour power plant gig close to home. Day shift and schedule O/T with double time. Yup, I’m just a whore that way. (for the record, I’m not a paying member of any union)
JD955SC, lol. I wish. Unfortunately, Alaska is the biggest welfare state in the union. Uncle Ted brought home the federal bacon for us for many years. Oh’ boy. Can’t de-rail this thread. Alaska has so much welfare it takes a couple dozen 501C social welfare organizations just to distribute it. Like a industry. The number of people that have actual family-wage earner jobs is rather low. Scary low. The oil biz pays for what the Feds, don’t.
Man did this thread blow up!!! I’m 42, done this since 18. Have the scars and sore joints to show for it. Still love it. My honest opinion after seeing what schools are producing is DON’T do it. Waste of $$. Anybody hiring a mechanic/tech knows it. Honestly if I was tasked with hiring another mechanic I’d think LESS of somebody with schooling. Problem is many of the teachers weren’t all that great to start with. I’ve seen a few that were excellent but not many. I don’t think you’re too late to the game. There are always opportunities. I think I’d seek out the larger companies running equipment you’re interested in. Go apply as a helper or a lube guy. Come in early, work late. Make yourself valuable. You’ll be helping the guys make repairs before you know it. I cannot stand to work in the shop. Only exception is winter time. I’ll spend more time getting a rig inside than I do working on it! Lol. There are opportunities all around you and most don’t need school. You could spend a few hours a week reading some books and searching the internet and learn as much as school will teach you. Best way to learn this stuff is to be hands on and after a couple of a$$kickings you’ll catch on quick!
The problem is that having a piece of paper makes you worth more. I know for a fact that toromont cat hires from the school he is looking at. Now if i remember correctly the starting pay after that school is something like 27$.now if you wanted to start with a company any other way you would be looking like 16$. In life its not what you know its who you blow.
With Cat that might be true. How many other places can a mechanic go to work? While Cat might be the standard by which many things are judged I don’t know that it’s the only way to look at things.
We hired a guy that had that “paper” once. On his 3rd day of employment, he walked up to me in the shop with this confused look on his face while holding a tube of grease in one hand....and a handheld grease gun in the other. He had no clue that the 2 went together. Paper is worthless....and maybe that’s part of Toromonts problem as I see a lot of complaints about them.
Deere in ontario was the same deal. Volvo Strongco same thing. Most places around here that will hire you with no schooling will be a substantial pay cut.
Very well could be part of there problem but normally the problem for us regular people is paying bills. Its hard to to a large pay cut from what you are currently doing to jump into another thing.
I wonder what the retaining percentage is of those they hire with that paper?
Being late to the game, isn't such a big deal, like Junkyard mentioned. Having the extra life experience and maturity is a huge help. Years ago, information was much harder to obtain. School helped with that. Nowadays, info is cheap and easy to obtain. If I have a problem with a Ford-F-series, I can go to FordTechMakuloco on the YouTube and 87% of the time he has a video that explains the issue and how to fix it. But, that piece of paper can still help you with higher pay and give you more credence in the hiring process. Especially in situations where HR hires you instead of the shop manager. Like state, fed, and municipal jobs.
Anchorage Fire Dept, for example. 4% extra for a associate degree, 6% for an undergraduate degree and 2% for ASE certification. Sure, the Bachelor degree and ASE credentials are not going to make you a better Tech. But it will make you an extra $8,000 a year at the fire house.
That's the only reason I am still doing this. Don't get me wrong I love what I do, but my body is getting tired. The problem I'm having is that my body is 40 years old, but my brain still thinks that I'm 18. I have arthritis in my hands and permanent tendonitis because there's no such thing as light duty. I would like to start training the next generation and just troubleshoot anymore.
Same here, I’d give almost anything to have a young person willing to learn. Had one start last year, made it a few weeks then got a DUI at 5:30 on a Monday morning! He actually wondered why I let him go! *** lol. The last year or two my body has really started to let me know it’s not happy. Can’t imagine what I’ll feel like when I’m Miller or Vetech’s age!
Being in Canada, the vast majority (if not all) of the trades require apprenticeships and schooling. Its not as simple as just buying a set of tools and going to work as a mechanic. Without that Journeyman certification you are severely kneecapping your opportunities. 1500 hours on the job, 8 weeks in the classroom. Repeat 3 more times.
It's a damn shame... In my eyes that paper isn't worth more than the paper I wipe my *** with. To me it means you spent a lot of money learning instead of learning by doing.
We should become elevator mechanics. Now, that is a niche you almost have to have a birthright to join. Two major companies, a couple of unions and they have a death grip on the industry. 5000 hr apprenticeship. Journey wages around $47 @ hour. Nice shirt, tools fit in a gym bag, new Ford Transit to run around in. The Municipality of Anchorage posted a elevator mechanic job a couple years ago with the low end of the scale $65 @ hr.
Living south looks better every day!
With all that being said about me disliking degrees. I am actually considering going to school and getting a degree so I can get that desk job running the show. I still believe that experience trumps education, but the world doesn't see it my way. So if I can't beat'em might as well join them.
Everything I know about working in Canada, I learnt from Terry and Deaner.
Hey Kg. I started my career as a heavy duty mechanic on June 20, 1976 and retired on June 30, 2018. I was 22 when I got my TQ. I had a pretty good run. Most of it was keeping the westcoast logging industry running and most of that was working at in the dark, (afternoon shift). Lots and lots of shift work. Did lots of camp work too. Would I do it again, hell yeah. It was a great job. Lots of the time it was just me and a partner somewhere out in the forest fixing what ever the loggers managed to bust up that day. I loved working in the field. Yes my back is toast but I'm not blaming the job, I take full responsibility for being an idiot and doing this to myself. I will be honest. There was many a time when I wondered why I chose this job. But give me a week to cool down and I would be back to being my happy self. There were years of famine but the years of prosperity out weighted the crap years many times over. I went management 3 times, but never really liked it so went back onto the floor. Worked forestry most of the time. I worked 2 dealerships Did a stint at the tar sands (Hated that place) Worked as support for a hydroelectric generation plant for 3 years. That was a cool job, was involved in the rebuild of a 125 MW generator. 150,000 HP turbines. Did time in an aluminum smelter. Dipped my toes into mining at a coal mine (Could not get away from that place fast enough either). But always went back logging. I love my P16's, Madil 124's and Cypress 7280's. I miss it. Except for the nights when there is a force 10 gale blowing, the rain is coming down sideways. Those nights I usually savor a nice glass of fine whiskey and remember the good old days instead. Good luck and if you do decide to go this path be ready for a ride.
Wornout Wrench, Much respect. I mean that.
My friends in Canada showed me how to “Give’r” and how to “Send it”. Very important skills to have in the heavy iron biz. God bless them. If you ain’t givin’er you ain’t livin’er.
It used to be 1800 hours and 6 weeks, for welding anyway. In Alberta a lot trades require that you are either a journeyman or an indentured apprentice to work in the trade of choice. Of course workers from other provinces dispute it but Alberta has the highest standards in Canada for most trades. A few weldors from Ontario and further East have admitted the Alberta standards are higher and the tests are harder. In fairly recent years they've tried to standardize requirements across Canada so a Red Seal ticket from another province means something. In the past Alberta didn't recognize tickets from other provinces but an Alberta Red Seal and especially Alberta pressure ticket(s) are recognized around the world. Not that other places don't have very good trades people. Welding is a little different because every pressure ticket has to be renewed every 2 years and often every time you go to a new job, you have to pass a job test. If you do pipeline or work in a pipe/vessel shop they want less than 10% failure rate on your X-Rays or they'll send you down the road.
10k in tools is a good start. Really depends on how you approach the job. Some step on aboard and right away want to be managers. Work is plenty from heavy to precision work. Some places you have to be able to weld and air arc like equalizer beams on dozers. Safety is a big thing. Cribbing and blocking heavy iron . It moves things get messed up. And a rule of thumb don’t hire on until you see your service truck and 8,000 pound is minimum. Schooling will get you basic . But most of it is after work research to keep on top of the changing technology. Pay is good and it’s weekly. If you have your own truck you can rent it and work.. like contract mechanic then your looking at big bucks . Good luck don’t get lazy and push yourself.
Whole purpose of the degree programs was to entry level those that could advance into management, that said there are only a few gonna get there and most do not want what they get when do get there and the floor looks all the more better but cannot return. Ranken was known for those on a Cert that were good self starters, had drive and worked to gain more knowledge, that ended with the Fed money sadly. I see all too many school programs across the trades bent on keeping the cash cow and not delivering quality that is where one has to dig deep to see what is occurring there. I took on as much as I thought could handle side work wise after getting on the street, that was beyond brutal, little to no sleep, multiple locations eating up machines, tools scattered with doubles to cover My ass in case forgot one someplace. Truck full of tools many hand made as much was not tool truck available back in the seventies if not at a dealer or high volume fleet shop. As got to where broken back several other serious afflictions took their toll moved to a fleet shop then bid out of mechanic altogether. Body does not like me, aged badly, took beatings never intended and just kept up with the floggings until hit 40, over twenty years pulling that load and finally just said done. Read up on the TGIF and history lessons all have revealed in here, may change your mind or at least set you to a path less beatings involved. Was sub management several times, was actually a office worker for several years, bad diet, bad hours, nerves wrought out and smoked like a coal burner, education did not lend well to where I was so back onto floor.
Everyone ever struck an arc thinks they can weld. A young guy worked for me when he was a kid, when he went to work for tile contractor first hour on the job he was sent to the shop where they were fooling with a torch melting something off. He says how bout I do that and the shop smart azz says if you can do better go ahead. Said he cleaned the tip so it would cut, burned it off, piece hit the floor and someone ran to the office and said, you got to see this. Good cut weld skills jump right out. When I was slumming it got me a lot of slack especially in places the weld was somewhat a sideline or went along with it. Sign erection, repair shops etc .
I do a lot of trouble shooting. Not a lot of tech or complicated stuff, I hate all that fussy crap but get lots other people worked on and often reassembled wrong, get some after they been at another welding shop where they can run the machine but can't fix. I so much rather heat and beat, stuck and busted and rig and being on the hook end of cranes. I can operate and skin a grape after jumping on an excavator for 5 mins but in 20 not worth a dam loading out trucks. I been operating equipment since I was a child and doesn't interest me much. I don't mind a bit of crane as most is short enough I can stay with it.
Makes me so self conscious of injuring left eye. Lost so much capability welding, depth perception, ability to scan puddle from different directions, all position welds where can only see with one eye and usually Left side. Can see torch cuts but eye makes it difficult to wear lighter shading so can see cut line marks, now generally make a mess have to dress out with a grinder and unafraid to state my limitations.
well, i might as well add my 2 cents. get into an apprenticeship program. its required in most, if not all, provinces because of legal liability and is part of having minimum qualification standards in the trades. and yes, get your RED SEAL( interprovincial standard ) on the successful completion of your apprenticeship. however, be aware that a first-year apprentice only earns a portion( percentage) of the average journeyman (licensed) rate in the shop, and successful completion of each apprenticeship year moves you farther up the scale. you should have a better chance finding an entry-level position than an 20yr old, especially if you read, write, dress what i would consider appropriate(not sloppy and with no tongue, nose, eyebrow or other facial hardware), show up for an interview early, and are reasonably articulate and enthusiastic. an apprentice mechanic only needs basic tools to start with and adds more as required. do not spend a lot on tools or tool boxes until you know if you are going to stick with it. as an apprentice, there will be days you absolutely hate it and will want to quit, even after you are a journeyman. be able to take criticism and the odd ass-chewing by grumpy old guys like me for doing stupid stuff if you are so inclined. us grumpy old guys survived this long, but some guys didn't. eventually after enough years, you may get to be a foreman and the physical work gets easier but the responsibility increases. its not for everybody or anybody, but it can be a very rewarding career if you are enthusiastic and work hard and try not to get involved with internal shop politics
Out of curiosity, I checked the websites for all the Anchorage dealerships for Tech openings. A few, but it’s the dead of winter. Craig Taylor 1 posting for multiple openings NC Machinery 3 postings SMS 1 posting CMI 0 Airport Equipment 0 Yukon Equipment 1
Minimum pay rate for apprentice welders is listed below. Employers can pay higher than minimum though. It's not uncommon for apprentices who get their "C" pressure ticket to get paid the same or close to what "B" pressure welders are getting paid because they are doing the same critical work. Once an apprentice becomes a journeyman they have to upgrade their C ticket to a B ticket. 1st. year 60% of J rate 2nd. year 75% of J rate 3rd. year 90% of J rate Having said this I encountered where the apprenticeship board was really wishy washy. I was off work with a broken collarbone and when I came back the new plant manager was only paying me 3rd. year rate. I questioned it and said if I'm not going to paid the J rate, just lay me off. After a short conversation he asked what I was working on punched my time card out. I contacted an experienced labour lawyer who said to wait and see what my record of employment says. It wasn't ready when it was supposed to be but when I did get it listed me as quitting. The lawyer said that was total BS and in essence I was being laid off if they weren't paying the proper rate. One of the guys in the shop said I was hardest worker in the skid shop and should contact the apprenticeship board. I contacted the head of the apprenticeship board and he asked the name of the company. In hindsight I should have asked, Why does that matter? I told him the name of the company and he said they're a pretty big company. Then he goes on to say that the wage rules more apply to protect the apprentices. I then asked, What's the sense of getting your journeyman ticket then? He never really replied. Another welder was given 1 day notice and let go. He used to get hockey tickets from the former shop manager. I did hear the new plant manager was the joke of the shop and left the company after having the position less than a year. That gave me some satisfaction. About 2 -1/2 month's later I was in the hospital with what they suspected was encephalitis. It's pretty scary when you can't talk and lose your memory. It took 17 hours before I could say who or where I was. I was getting IV 3 times a day for 10 days. I spent a total of 5 weeks in the hospital and wasn't able to work for about a year. I'm sure the stress from having my job taken away the way it was, was a major contributor to ending up in the hospital.
Education Trends. I used to review new text books for some of the major publishers for side cash. Usually $50 a chapter, or so. Being a student and then a teacher, I’ve been around the text book business for a long time. When I started attending post-secondary education, diesel text books were written for the 11 grade level. Today, they are written for the 7 grade level. I had a shocking number of freshmen that could not read. These are recent high school grads. So, the books were worthless. Open enrollment Universities have no standards for non-degree seeking students. In other words, if they choose a certificate vs a degree, no min SAT or other entrance exam score is required. What a scam the text book biz is. Poor college kids get raped on the price of these things. There are only a half-dozen or so authors writing diesel and auto text books, and I know most of them. Two of them are good acquaintances. The authors don’t make much money, because not many diesel text books are sold in a year. I got away from using text books. The manufacturers have great learning material for free, especially Cat. Plus, I used a lot of my own hand-outs and notes. Saved the students a lot of money. It’s just wrong for the public college book stores to be a profit center. Anyways, I’m all over the place with this post. Summary: kids can’t read Text books are a scam I stopped requiring text books
Now for my positive thoughts, things others haven't posted that go with the job-things you learn to like. Like the flavors of the different grades of oils and lubes. Personally I like a nice synthetic 50 wt transmission oil, I have found several that have a nice bouquet. There are several flavors of dirt, dirt with coolant, dirt with chassis lube, dirt with motor oil and the best flavor dirt with 80/90 with a dash of limited slip additive-FOMOCO is the best. Then it's the flavor of brake dust biscuits sprinkled with a little diesel soot very flavorful great on Saturday morning around 7:00 am for a little pick-me-up. But you learn as time goes by you haven't quite tasted all the dirt there is and you find after several years there's a bunch more flavors out rolling down the highway headed for a skunk. I hired a young feller who spent two years going to diesel school at WWCC. After about one and half months he figured out he wasted his money on school-He quit, He couldn't stand the filth and having to shower before bed time.
Oh what he will have missed with the organic clutch dust that managed to get into EVERY crevice on a hand and would not scrub away, Detroit Engine oil that was as good a stain at India ink!!! Do so remember the days could not smell anything but diesel, for days, as nose had loaded out trying to find a bad cylinder staring at exhaust ports running at high idle! And dirt, Road grime, Quarry slurry, the LANDFILL when worked trash equipment. Still remember the blade ram had to change in a loaded truck oozing and reeking maggots crawling across my arm, puking was the easy part of that day.
Truck Shop, We have a lot in common. If you like the flavor of 80-90 with additive, try the new grape flavored Delco 75-90 synthetic gear lube ! Too funny.( Read the third bullet point on the label).
DMiller, Good point about those landfill machines. Tetanus and all the HEPS! I had a colleague at Halton get two hypo needle sticks in the same week! I’ve been fortunate to have avoided the landfill and maggot wagon scene.
Grape Scent, now THAT is hysterical!!! Oh Yeah, dump work, crawlers, compacting wheeled articulated dozers, compactor trucks with Leach Bodies and the industrial top loaders, strike a gas axe flame or arc weld on any of these and even after repeated washings or having left the dump to private service the odor just returned and burnt. Makes me want to wretch currently. The smell was bad enough but the maggots was the worst, sneak up a pant leg or drop on your ear from something dripping above. Final puke massage was honey buckets. LANDFILL DUMP BEHIND THE SCENES UP CLOSE: MrBigTrucks101 - YouTube
And just think you did that while the boss sat at his desk over paid looking at porno.
They must be adding scents to lubricants for the next generation of snowflakes to hit the industry. Don't need to get their delicate sensibilities to be offended and have them walking off the job because it smells like work.
Paul, lol. Snowflakes. In reality, GM customers complained about how stinky their vehicles were after having gear work completed in customer satisfaction surveys. GM responded by adding scent to the lube. lol. I laugh every time I see a bottle of that s$&t. !
Worked with a welder who said he did extensive studies of which welding rods produced the most harmful smoke. Back in the day it wasn't common to wear a mask or respirator when welding on large tanks. He said he got headaches welding with 7018 but burning 7024 didn't affect him.
This hasn’t been mentioned yet, and I don’t want to hurt any feelings, so I’ll tread lightly because a lot of people went to these private schools. Private diesel schools is the topic. Buyer beware! These places were and are very predatory . They advertise a fast-track, glossy alternative to traditional community college programs. Paid recruiters visiting high schools, TV infomercials, slick presentations. They preyed on students who didn’t want to attend a traditional two-year program. No math, no writing, no academic classes. Just hands-on training. Huge student loans! $40k for a 6-month training session. ! Look what happened. Corinthian, the parent company of Wyoming Tech, got busted by the DOJ for scamming students in 2015. Closed down in 2017. Lost the lawsuit. 2020 Guide to the WyoTech Lawsuit & Student Loan Forgiveness Program https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.forgetstudentloandebt.com/student-loan-relief-programs/federal-student-loan-relief/federal-forgiveness-programs/wyotech-student-loan-forgiveness-programs/?amp
Welder Dave, It’s scary. Hex-Chrome poisoning, the Zinc Shakes, the Galvy Flu, melanoma of the eye, leukemia, other cancers. I know, everything causes cancer, but welding isn’t particularly healthy. Even by following all PPE measures.
Oh yes. Open Gear Lube (gear dope) One little dab hidden somewhere on you body, say behind an ear, that you didn't get off in the nightly steamclean at home (shower) and there goes another set of sheets or pillow cases. I tried, lord knows I tried to make sure that I got it all off. But if you just put in a 12 plus hour day busting your butt trying to have a machine running for the morning, sometimes you miss a tiny dab. My wife was good about it. She knew where the money was coming from so a bit of good natured ribbing and that was it. I think my count over the years was 4 or 5 pillows. Pro tip. Mayonnaise works wonders getting gear dope out of your hair. Hey Donkey Doctor, I bet you have a few stories. And as far as garbage trucks. Worked for a garbage truck company for 8 days. Needed a job, was getting married and my wife was still in college so I just grabbed the first job I could find in that city. 8 days, in August. A very hot August. Longest 8 days of my working life. I remember the maggots and the puking. And the stink And EVERYTHING ON THE TRUCKS WAS CORRODED 8 days. Shudders. Okay, whiskey time.
OK, back to the main topic. It is hard, dirty, dangerous work with long hours that requires you to be clever and have a functioning brain any hour of day or night. And a lot of money is riding on work being done perfectly, any deviation and the whole thing falls apart. Why aren't we demanding and getting paid a lot more money? My guess is that hillbillies and others are willing to work for peanuts and driving the rates down. That and cheapskate customers. Don't work long hours for low pay, raise the rate so that hours are reasonable.
Hoodly Dang's and Ricky Bobby's
Trades used to be one of the higher paying jobs. For some it still can be but the majority it's about average. There are pencil pushers looking at a computer screen all day making considerably more money sitting on their butt in an air conditioned office. Gov't. is even worse. They complain a 37.5 hour work week is too much.
I fully agree Wyotech, UTI, etc are ripoffs and they are out for the suckers. I warn everybody away from them.
WOW!! My entire 10 mo course including all my books was under $5000 in 1975 Paid for working gas station part time.
Mine was the same cost, including books (we used big binders locally printed by the program for $20 each instead of $100+ textbooks). If you worked for the dealership for three years rhey reimbursed the tuition completely and the provided starter tool set was yours. And this was five years ago so it was an extraordinarily cheap vs the UTI rape.
I’ll tell you another thing concerning expectations vs reality...the job turned out somewhat differently than I expected when I went into it. I expected a lot of engine work and a lot of big machines but what I got instead was a lot of anything but engine work and we only work on up to midsize because bigger stuff stays on-site. I have done enough of the engine work to be OK with not doing a ton of it. It’s aggravating, tedious work with a lot of stress on that first key turn. I ended up becoming very skilled in electronics and electrical troubleshooting. I’m also not sad that I don’t get to work on the big stuff often because it’s a lot more climbing up and down.
i noticed that nobody has mentioned working at an AG dealership. there can be a good variety of stuff to work on-compact tractors all the way up to the 600hp large tractors as well as harvesting equipment etc. sometimes ag dealerships are more willing to hire entry-level people just because most want to work on the big yellow stuff which pays more. and it can also depend on which part of the country you live in. ag work is likely more steady because it is consistent, as opposed to the cyclic nature of oil and mining etc. some people move around between types anyway, due to a variety of reasons. the best job i had was where you never knew what was coming in the door next. i get bored doing the same stuff all the time- maybe its attention deficit disorder
I would like to get into Ag stuff too but it’s practically non existent around here. You’ll see a handful of combines and sprayers and such but most of the ag stuff is hobby farm stuff and smaller. The pay is abysmal too...they want to pay $12-15/hr. We sell a major Ag brand through some of our stores but most is smaller size stuff.
AG dealers here cannot get applicants, those that do apply do not generally stick around if are hired.
a lot of the ag dealerships around here have multiple locations and have huge, fairly new shops. take your pick of colours but around here, green is predominant. one advantage to starting at a green deere dealership is that it will be easier to switch to a yellow deere dealership if desired
My favorite flavor, though I'm late to the party, is dirt and brake fluid There's always a line of younger, hungrier applicants to take your job, corporations like to turf out hands-on workers around 50 or so if they can, as we slow down and become wiser. They fire experience, hire cheap and energetic. Redo rates reflect this trend. My most lost argument was about service mechanics and apprentices, the dealerships I worked at had a strict "One man, one machine" rule, set by the bean counters and efficiency experts. This only works well if all your techs are at or near journey level and have years of experience. I proposed a few times that we put a young new hire in team with one of the grey hair set coasting toward retirement. If you consider human nature, the young one's deference to age and experience (It does happen) would allow the old guy to prevent many screw ups from over eager syndrome, and most old guys would step up their game and not let "The kid" show them up. Seems natural to me, went over like a fart in church of course. YMMV
From the bean counters' perspective: 1. 95% of the time only one man is required as it is mundane stuff like taking off covers and putting them back again 2. If the old guy shows the new guy his tricks then he will get too fast too soon and that cuts into billable hours
1) Response: Bean counters are idiots. 2) Response: We bill flat rate, faster is always better if no rework results.
There's always the newbies that want to jump on the big/more complicated stuff right away but they need to realize they have to start at the bottom and work their way up. It's frustrating when you work with newbie and they think they know it all and won't listen when you tell them the proper way to do something. When I went for apprenticeship training the Gov't. paid training allowance that was the same as unemployment insurance. I didn't get paid one period and almost fell out of my chair a couple weeks later when I got 5 cheques worth about $2200 from the Gov't.
Interesting comments about inexperienced techs selling more hours. A decade ago, guessing to predict what was going to happen as the experienced techs left the industry and how dealerships were going to address it. Today, the shop floor at the local truck dealerships have crews of inexperienced techs that sell a bunch of diagnostic hours and the service writers try their best to invoice the come-backs. In a sick way, it’s kinda working out for them. Except for the customer getting hurt.
not so well here where a number of clientele KNOW when being rail roaded and question 'Diagnostic Time' with no repairs. Have had a few phone calls from old contacts as to *** is this crap as to DT.
Ag work? I did that for almost eight years prior to this job. Work on a pea viner/harvester. you cut your way in and weld your way out.
I think all in I spent about $8k between my pre-app (9 months) and four, 8 week apprentice classes in order to get my Red Seal.
And half the service work is on emissions and electronics.
Diagnostic hours are a real thing on all this electronic junk. Years ago I would say if I had to spend time learning the system to work on it that was training time on my dime. But now when you see some complicated system and have to learn it, you may never get to use that knowledge again because it will change before you see another one like it. The customer has to bear that kind of cost.
Thank you for all the comments positive and negative, I didn't think I would get a 7 page topic just joining the boards. I did read everyone's thoughts of the industry and their personal story's. so thank you for sharing My options are very thin right now and I want a change, I'm someone that uses my hands so sitting in front a computer gets very boring leaning making online stores etc. If I try schooling for the 1 year and see it's nothing but "dead-ends" at least I would know. I'm only losing a few thousands dollars and 1 year of my life. I live in Ontario Canada and everything is a degree or apprenticeship program here, I can't knock on someones door asking nicely to sweep the shop and learn from the ground up anymore. Maybe a few will help but from my 35 years living here and dealing with a**holes nobody is willing to help you like when my grandpa was a mechanic 40 years ago. I would live in the states tomorrow, the options and bigger and you can pick the weather. also the cost of living is cheaper. The housing market is stupid here, $200k over asking on a house with most selling for $700k or $900k living in the middle of nowhere. Its just nuts here I'm very green and i know starting at the bottom is the only option with anything new, I guess I'm different then the new young people. I looked into the caterpillar think big program but I don't know the cost or if they would even accept me being my age with only having a grade 12. These are the schools I'm thinking about attending but moving is always a option, I would need to wait until 2020 for the one in Lindsay Ontario. https://flemingcollege.ca/programs/heavy-equipment-techniques https://www.ontariocolleges.ca/en/programs/professions-and-trades/heavy-equipment I have even thought about taking the course on leaning to properly drive the machines for the 12 week programs. I've had nothing but a black cloud over my-head for years now, I want to finally buy a new truck and not one dealer cares about making a sale ($40k) I've visit 6 dealers. I drive the streets to get money (online business I have) yet they don't want the sale. I'm just a different person to the masses it seems. Maybe I should become a drug addict & will get job offers from around the would and a gofundme setup. maybe even get a nice condo. Thanks again everyone, I will send a few members private messages as I do have a few more questions. take care everyone
No matter what you decide, don't be a stranger here. We're kind of like a weird extended family, some of us get along, some drive each other crazy, but there's a lot of good new and old school people. Some may not be likable, some downright abrasive, but I can almost guarantee that if you lay it out straight, almost all of us will have your back if the need and the opportunity coincide. Brothers of the iron if you will. Cheers.
It sounds like you're feeling sorry for yourself, at least a little. I would bet the majority of people on here have had some major setbacks in their career paths. I was black balled from my trade of choice for 6 years because of a wrongful dismissal. 2-1/2 month's later I spent 5 weeks in the hospital and wasn't able to work for about a year. It was before the freedom of information and privacy act and the company was giving false information about me. Under the privacy act they could have been given a hefty fine without my consent to give out any information. They aren't even supposed to say if a person worked there without that persons consent. The best analogy is what if an abusive ex is trying to track down their former partner. The tech. school here used to put up job postings of companies looking for people. If not you could always go and talk them and see what say about becoming a mechanic and who might be hiring. It costs nothing and would probably be the best feedback you can get. Nothing wrong with knocking on doors and saying you'd like to get into an apprenticeship. You don't apply for an apprenticeship and then get a job. You get a job first and the company signs you up as an apprenticeship. Being older could be a big advantage over the younger crowd in this day and and age that want everything handed to them on a silver platter. Grade 12 is sufficient for most trades and having life experience is a big bonus. Seems like a new truck could wait a bit until you figure out where your career is going.
if you can, talk to a field rep (the person who goes around and checks on the apprentices in their workplace) at your closest apprenticeship branch. sometimes they may be able to steer you toward a potential employer. at least, they should be able to provide you with some good general information. during my apprenticeships i had very good field reps but that was a small town and 40+ years ago
KG14, Call Toromont Caterpillar in Ontario and ask to speak to the ThinkBig Coordinator. Have a chat. Start the process to apply. If you don’t get selected the first try, then apply again the next year. ThinkBig Coordinators appreciate persistence. Be positive. Don’t share your woes, tell them this is what you want to do.
Having "only" grade 12 isn't an issue at all in becoming a mechanic. They only required a grade 10 education in BC to enrol in the pre-app when I went through. You definitely don't need a degree or anything to do well in this profession.
I don't even feel bad for the dealers. I've worked at a few and would gladly make a buck or 2 an hour less at a small shop than deal with that dealer/corporate BS at a dealership again.
I agree. I was able to handle the corporate BS when I was younger, but not anymore. Maybe I could stand it if I was hiding in a corner cubicle writing standard jobs or something. Or, doing warranty claims. Maybe the core return guy in the warehouse.
Make my words, I’m going to get my grade 10!
I’ve learned so much about Canada, the customs and traditions, from watching that documentary on Netflix. Straight out of Sunnyvale, Nova Scotia. Knowwhatimsayin? Lol. Peace.
Hey it don't take rocket appliances!
They came to a lacrosse game a few years and they asked the people at the game who they liked the best. Ricky didn't get any votes, Julian got a few and Bubbles got the most.
LetterKenny, Fubar and TPB. That is some funny stuff. Educational, too. The scene where Ray wants Bubbles to jump start his car is hilarious. Ray gets pissed at Bubbles, but at the end, still reminds Bubbles to visit for supper. Watched it 3-4 times to figure out what Newfie steak was.