My 1150H left track has a long delay when engaging in high gear, but then drives fine (doesn't slip/chatter under load). If you put the left track in low range it drives fine, but then if you push the left turn brake, it disengages, and then you have to move the lever back into neutral and then back into low range to get the left track to re-engage. The oil level is fine, and I just changed the filter, but I just bought this unit, and previously it has sat in the seller's yard for something like 6 months. My next step was to drain and replace the transmission oil, what else should I be looking at?
Welcome to HEF @silverstr8p ! The 1150H uses teflon oil control rings on the transmission shafts. I have had to replace them on every one of the machines owned by my clients, experiencing the same symptoms. I would inspect & replace those before doing anything else. If the problem is only on the LH side, inspect & replace the ones on the front of the transmission (hi/low) & the rear (fwd/rev) They are not easy to replace as you need to STRETCH the heck out of the rings to slide them onto the shafts & install into their grooves & then compress them into the grooves to refit the covers. Then while your there, do the RHS as well & maybe the ones on the hi/low mainshaft at the rear PTO cover
Do you mean at the valve body on top of the transmission, or do I have to tear into the transmission itself? Will it hurt to run the machine until I can get it repaired?
The oil control rings are on the front & rear of the transmission, located on the end of each shaft. As to whether any damage may occur through continued use..... Well, that I can't really say, but yes it is possible. Technically, the delay is caused by the rings being worn & not controlling the oil properly. They may just need a little more time to energize & seal to do their job. They maybe leaking a little while engaged, so some pressure could be going to a different clutch pack than the one you have selected. IE - if you have selected fwd low range - some pressure maybe escaping to reverse & high - causing those packs to slightly drag while driving in fwd low - not good.... I have seen a seal ring that was badly installed at factory & done 3 - 4000hrs work. The machine had a hesitation from new that was never attended to. Warranty had passed. The owner finally had it checked out, (paying me to do it) The badly installed seal ring had disfigured the groove in which it had to live in, the only way to repair it was complete transmission disassembly & reclaiming the shaft in a machine shop. That is a BIG $$$ repair. So it's a bit of a gamble, but get it looked at ASAP as you don't really know
So how long would this job take for a new (reasonably mechanical) guy and what all do you have to tear apart to get to the thing you have to tear apart? I just got my repair manual in the mail so I'll take a look at that too. I have another 30 hours of work on this jobsite, so hopefully it will last that long? Sounds like I should haul it back to the shop before I get into it?
The front ones will require the removal of a couple of steel lines going to the brakes to allow access.... & alot of padding for your knees & ribs..... The rear ones should be easy, depends if you have rippers or a winch?? You should easily get them done in a day. The biggest issue you will have is getting the new stretched rings back into the grooves. I have fabricated a sleeve from nylon to do this.... it's still not easy, patience is required. The image below shows the type of sleeve in use on a 855E transmission using the same type of seal ring. Some have used hose clamps with success, not easy to do while leaning on your ribs & trying to get two arms in through the floorplate...... TIP - if the temp is a bit cool, warm the seals in hot water prior to fitting & order a couple of spares...just in case....
Silverstr8p...if anyway possible can you post pics of the parts and maybe a few once you get into the transmission? Would be nice to see what’s going on in there.
Thanks, that sounds like something I'll do once I haul it back to the shop, probably annoying to try it in the rain. I'll take some pics when I do it. I have rippers, do I have to take those off, or can I just run them all the way down or something? Hopefully it'll hang in there for another 30 hours until I can get it off this jobsite.
As far as compressing the nylon rings back, I uses a large sheet of SS shim stock, a couple hose clamps, cut the stock for a decent overlap/inch or so, then align over the rings, take the hose clamps and snug it down a little at a time. Be surprised how far closer to original size they will squish.
There should be no need to remove the rippers either sink into the dirt or remove the shanks & lower them to make access a little easier.
We were pushing pretty hard in rock today (this is the last rock section) and there was no signs of slipping, just the really annoying high gear delay, so I guess we'll try to finish the rest of this section of road then haul it down to the shop and tear into it.
so when you pull that cover off under the seat (do you have to take the seat out?), does that whole pile of gears just fall out, or do you just pull the cover off with a few bolts and it's easy to get to after that? I'm wondering how I would get the seals on if they're really down there at some weird angle and I'm hanging down the hole in front of the seat. I'm hoping to get it to the shop in a next couple weeks. It lasted long enough to do the current job, it just became increasingly annoying, but still pushed dirt fine.
You gain access to the front Hi/Low end caps through the floor plate - leave the seat alone. It's not a big job, just awkward. The front caps (hi/low) have gaskets & the rear caps (fwd/rev) have shims which will need to be carefully removed cleaned & refitted in the same locations with a smear of loctite 515.
Okay, thanks, will take pictures and upload them when I do the job...after I get it hauled back to the shop. I also have to put corner bits on, trying to decide whether to go stock or aftermarket, but that's another subject.
Okay, I finally got the machine hauled off the mountain due to a break in the weather. I first removed the floor plate: Which brought me to this mess of hoses, linkage and other random stuff, below which is the left and right transmission housings (so I think): So if I look closer at the left one, I can't tell what I'm supposed to remove, the top cap, the housing below that, or the big huge casting behind that which will take four men and a monkey to pull out of there, as it has both transmissions' stuff in it presumably? I really hope it's just the top cap and maybe the housing below it, and that all the gears don't fall in the belly pan when I pull it off, so what should I do now?
1) Clean the front of the transmission so you can see what you are looking for. 2) Look at the picture I posted above in post #13 - you need to remove just the small triangular end caps (item #20 x 2 of - LH & RH) which have two hoses going to each of them & are each retained with 3 x 9/16" headed bolts. ** The big housings (item #6 above) on the front of the transmission are the brakes - DON'T TOUCH THEM OR THE BOLTS ON THEIR FRONT COVERS - THEY ARE SPRING LOADED . 3) In order to remove the end caps, you will need to remove one L shaped steel tube that delivers oil to the brakes (one tube for each side) - these should require a 7/8" wrench to undo. ** Don't let any dirt into the hydraulic system when you undo any hoses/pipes. Those retaining bolts should be refitted using loctite high strength retainer, which will also act as a sealer.
Okay, so I found some pictures (for others who are looking to try this) in the manual which might help. First, here is where tranny stuff is on an 1150H: So within that, I *think* I'm looking for the pieces on top of my last picture, which is sorta under the edge of the floorboards? Here's a diagram of the top of the tranny: Here's the procedure for checking pressure: and for checking hi/low pressures: Here's the tranny cutaway: So I guess I'm trying to get to #13 and remove the covers, sorta like it shows below in step 50: Which will hopefully allow me to take this shaft #7 out and the seals on it of #9? I'm not really sure all this is true, just posting what I think I should be doing next. Please let me know if I'm not looking at the right part. Hope all these documents will help others.
Okay, I got the cover off, which is located here: Then under that is the shaft. In my case it looks like the outer one is GONE! So there's your problem I guess Here's a look at the underside of the cap. There's kind of a ridge halfway up where you can kinda catch your fingernail on it as you scrape by it. I burnished it a bit, but will ask the dealer if he thinks I should replace it or just sand it with emory cloth, so we'll see. Now I have to figure out how to get the new ones on.
Allis used a similar arrangement for their collector feed distribution. My 7G is set up almost exactly the same but the seals are inside the covers/collector caps. Some nitwit in the past used O-rings in the trans in my machine that I ended up swapping out so the leakage rate was severe and the clutches seldom ever fully engaged.
Did you catch it before it took out your clutch packs? Sounds like a big job. My clutches weren't engaging and it kept popping into neutral on the left track, but if you could get them to engage it didn't slip. Now I'm kind of wondering whether that seal disintegrated and might get stuck elsewhere in the tranny. I hope the filter catches it, and hey, there's something like 17 gallons of oil, so hopefully it will go someplace not harmful.
Small area for the seal to get away in, would have been extremely small pieces. My clutch packs mic'd in a near to normal thickness when I went in the box for reseal. I intend to re-install it this spring and see how it works as the donor unit in it is fine for now.
Went down to the dealer and he said the cap has too much of a ridge in it, so I ordered another one for $300, which seems like an awful lot for a tiny cap with a couple machined surfaces, but hey, they're the dealer and they have one. He said I should warm up the seals before putting them on in a pan of warm water, then squeezing them afterward with a pop can and a hose clamp to make sure they shrink back again, we'll see how it goes hopefully I'll have the parts tomorrow.
-I used as warm as I could stand for Teflon seals and yes a coke can cut into a sheet with a hose clamp works well at compressing the warm nylon back into size. Stretch them only as much as have to, to get to slip onto the shaft, the outer one first then the inner passed over the outer after re-compressed.
$300.00?! for that? That's robbery at gunpoint.
Yeah, but I paid the ransom since I want my dozer back and losing a day's work cost more than that, but it does seem like they should've bought me dinner. Anyone know of a better source for Case parts?
Google your part number, or better yet, go to machinerytrader.com and put your part number in their parts search engine. There may be good used or aftermarket by the box fulls
Today I broke both of my new seals trying to put them on. The hard part isn't getting them on, you just stick a cup of water with the seals in it in the microwave for a minute or so, then lean down under the floorboards and wiggle it on with your fingers. The problem is getting those stupid seals to re-compress to fit in back in the slots. I tried a tin can with a three different hose clamps and also a zip tie. That will get it most of the way clamped, but not quite enough that when you put the cap assembly back on, it pinches and rips the seal. So now I'll head back in the a.m. to the dealer and get another couple and maybe see if they have the compression tool. Does anyone else have a better way to compress those seals? It seems the clamp doesn't really compress the tin can evenly, or at least I couldn't make it behave.
Just patience. Used the same technique on P/S box control valve seals for years no issue. Seal has to be warm yet when try to compress, will not squeeze if cools off.
The dealer says he uses microfiche film instead of coke can, but I couldn't get ahold of one of those. I notice they don't even use the Case factory tools to do this. He also said to use something like Lucas engine stabilizing oil or STP to goop up the little clamp assembly, and that it would compress the seal once it cooled, but you have to leave it clamped on there for awhile, like hours, to get it to get small enough to fit. What you're looking for is the seal to stick up maybe a fingernail or a little more out from the shaft when you're done, otherwise the cap will tear it up. So I left the clamp on for a couple days then went back today and gooped up the cap with Lucas oil and slid it right on! I feel sorry for a new guy trying this for a first time, but hopefully all this detailed information and pictures will help. If you did these all the time for a living that's fine, but that's the minority I think. Meanwhile, the engineer who designed this seal should be shot, hung, buried, dug up and then re-shot. If the engineer did this for a living, they would develop a normal seal that just snaps around the shaft and goes in the slot like a normal o-ring. Anyway, hopefully this long post will help the next guy who has the same problem. Thanks for all the help! My Case 1150H now runs great!