I am having trouble with 1984 Case 1835b skid steer. It has no fuel pressure. Can someone direct to the post that covers the same problem. I'm sure someone has asked this same question before on this forum...
Not real sure what your asking.. fuel pressure UP TO the injection pump or OUT OF the injection pump?? If its UP TO.. isn't there an electric feed pump between the tank and filter?? If its OUT OF.. I have to know what fuel system it has.. CAV/Delphi or Roosa Master/Stanadyne.. and maybe some #'s off the name plate..
Attached above is the pump I have on my unit and a photo of the primer. I have a case 1835b w/ 188d engine. It was running fine and then just died. I am going to replace all of the rubber fuel line and then clean and rebuild (if necessary) the primer unit. The filters are new and full of fuel. There is no fuel present when I crack the injector lines and the return line to the pump. I have been trying to find a guide to help diagnosing this problem since I am not familiar with this particular unit. I figure I will just start at the tank and work up to the injectors till I figure out the problem. I have had this unit a very short time and have been fixing a multitude of hydraulic leaks and finally was able to use this unit. But only for about an hour before it quit running.
Does your primer move fuel anywhere in the system? Did you check the bleeders on the filters for fuel squirting out when you prime it? Then check the center line in the middle of the injector lines to see if fuel squirts out there when it's loose and you prime it. I think you're on the right track to start at the tank, but make sure it's not pumping fuel first, at the outlet from the primer or anywhere else except the injection lines. Sounds like it sat a while, so the tank probably has junk in it. If you can't get fuel to flow well out of the tank, stick the hose that went to the tank into a can of fuel and see if it primes then, simple A B A testing, doesn't work one way, change something and it works, go back to original and it doesn't work again, pretty clear what the problem is. If the tank is clogged, then we'll figure that part out next.
Pull the return line off.. then pull the fitting off the top of the inj. pump.. the entire fitting all the way down to the aluminum top cover.. Make sure there is fuel at the inlet on the pump.. make sure the electric shut off is working.. should here a click when activated.. now try to start it.. WITHOUT THE FITTING IN THE TOP COVER.... Make sure the throttle is held wide open.. Loosen the lines at the pump to see if its pumping.. Once its pumping, tighten the lines at the pump, loosen them at the injectors and crank the engine. Once fuel is at the injectors, tighten.. Now put the fitting back in the top cover.. is it still running?? if not.. the fitting is clogged.. IF its running, hook the return line back up.. still running?? if no, the return is clogged going back to the tank..
Thank you for the response, I am new to this unit, I have never owned one before and yes I believe it has been sitting for awhile.. Removed return line and fitting from the top of inj pump... Replaced fuel line to primer pump, cleaned primer pump, replaced fuel line from primer pump to filters... There is fuel getting to the inj pump inlet... When the primer pump is used, fuel comes out of the top of the inj pump at the fuel return inlet... Do not think the electric shut is working... Turn key on, NO CLICK... Ran a jumper from the battery to the inj pump shut off... NO CLICK... Please advise...
If you cant hear it working, chances are pretty good its not.. You can remove the top cover-3screws- and check it out.. DO NOT break the screws..
Where can I find an exploded view of the pump??? Is the shut off switch a case only part??? Where can I find a part number??? Case does not show an exploded view of the pump, at least not that I have found.
HeavyEquipmentForums That might be the one, or close enough. That's a stanadyne pump, any injection shop or online can get the solenoid, or go down to post #30. Did you check the solenoid for continuity? ohms from that terminal to ground? if it's open/no continuity/ infinite ohms, then the coil is burned out, and you have to pull it out. If it has something like 5-50 ohms then it might be gummed up and not moving so no click. Could try tapping it with a screwdriver with the power on.
If you can get the DB2 # off the name plate I can send you a breakdown of the pump.. Case didn't make the pump.. its made by Stanadyne.. I can answer just about anything you need to know about it, just ask.
I appreciate all of the help so far and I was hoping the solenoid would be the problem, easy and inexpensive fix. Well not so much. OHMS shows 0.00, voltage at the battery is 12.5V, voltage at the solenoid positive terminal is 9.7V, not enough volts to actuate the solenoid while mounted in the injection pump I'm guessing. So I removed the solenoid to bench test on another battery with 13.7V and it actuated the solenoid perfectly. I'm somewhat at a lose at this point seeing as how I'm not real good with electrical on a 12V system. Mechanically I'm pretty good with most things. Can you guys give me some direction???
You need to find a wiring diagram and go through your circuit with the key on to see where your exta 3 volts are getting wasted. It shouldn't be too hard once you know where to look. Somebody might even know where the likely offending harness connector is located. If it turns out to be in the middle of a wire then it might get harder. HeavyEquipmentForums This thread discusses adding a relay to compensate for voltage drop in the STARTING system. No reason you couldn't do the same thing for the injection pump, you really shouldn't have to though, it shouldn't be more than a couple amps?
EASY FIX.. the sol. is supposed to activate at 9v..as you have the TC off.. disassemble it and remove the solenoid. BE CAREFUL of the fiber washers between the cover & solenoid.. if you break them you can get them from any fuel shop or I can send you some. Put a screw driver between the coils on the sol. and give it a twist.. this will lessen the amount of voltage required to move the solenoid.. easy fix.. ALOT easier than tracing down 3 volts..
Well I am starting to get frustrated!!! Did the little fix with the spring and it worked!!! BUT... I still have no fuel pressure. Let me see if understand this correctly... Theoretically, If you took the solenoid out of the equation all together (i.e. basically throw the damn thing in the trash) if there is fuel getting to the pump, the fuel pump works properly then it should pump fuel even if the solenoid is sitting in the trash can, right??? Because the solenoid is only there to allow fuel into the pump when you turn the key to the run position and stop fuel from flowing into the pump when the key is turned to the off position, right??? Still have no fuel pressure coming from the pump when the solenoid is hooked up and working inside the pump or completely out of the pump sitting on the fuel tank... I disconnected the 4 fuels line at pump, cranked the engine several time (10 or 12), all I get are a few drops out of each line each time I cranked on the engine and that was with the solenoid connected inside the pump and disconnected out of the pump all together. How much fuel should be coming out of the fuel lines when you crank the engine??? I'm assuming quite a bit in order to get the fuel pressure up enough to get the injection nozzles to open. I still think the pump is bad... any suggestions???
There should be a lot of fuel coming out of the pump.. enough to make you jump back out of the way.. Your right, theres something wrong w/ the pump.. did you move/see if the metering valve was free when you had the cover off?? That's the gizmo that the sol. moves inorder to shut off the fuel.. the valve itself is trapped under the center guide stud but an arm sticks up that you can move back and forth.. There is ALOT more to the pump than just a solenoid controlling fuel on & off.. INSIDE the inj. pump are pumping plungers that get stuck from bad/old fuel. IF the sol. is in working order, you have fuel to the back of the pump and the metering valve is free.. the pumping plungers are stuck or the head & rotor is seized.. SO to answer your question.. YES there is something wrong w/ your pump.. Get me the friggin #'s off the name plate and I'll walk you thru removal..
You do know, you can start it w/ the top cover off?? Just look & see how the solenoid works, what it moves.. it moves the mv arm to shut the fuel off. Leave the top cover off and REMOVE the lines going to the injectors, just incase it wants to pump fuel, it wont start.. and crank the engine over and see if it pumps.. the fitting in the top cover has a glass check ball & spring in it.. IF it gets clogged, it wont allow the pump to pump.. so just remove the top cover to get the sol. & the return connector out of the system. Its a case of, if you cant get fuel OUT, you cant get fuel IN.. kinda like a garden hose with your finger over the end.. you know its got water coming in, but your finger is holding it back.. Let us know how it works out.. TPG
Never mind about the #'s.. I just looked it up and its basic.. Shut off the fuel, pull the small side cover window, let the fuel drain. Rotate the engine BY HAND until the 2 lines line up.. 1 is stationary and 1 rotates. Check the timing *'s on your flywheel for proper engine timing w/ the lines lined up.. I'm not 100% sure what its supposed to be.. 8* BTDC maybe. Now, remove the linkage from the throttle, electrical connection from the solenoid and the lines going to the injectors. TIE THE THROTTLE BACK in the wide open position.. Remove the 3 bolts/nuts holding the pump to the engine block and pull back on the pump.. The drive shaft will stay in the engine.. & your done.. Drain the remaining fuel out of the pump.. wrap the pump up good, box it up and send it to your friendly, neighborhood, pump guy..
I believe the ID plate is located on the side against the block so I will have to pull the pump to be able to get that number.
SEE post #17.. I don't need them.
OK... Had time to get the pump off, finally. I need some part numbers for a rebuild kit... DB2 - 4329 / 2100 5655334 / A-156735 These are the numbers on the pump. The reseal part numbers I have found so are 24371 & 24370. Not sure if these are good numbers. Or do I just go to my local fuel shop with numbers from the pump and get a reseal kit from them??? Thanks for all the help so far.
Those 2 kits together will get the job done.. or you could get the right one;; 24373 If you send me you email address I'll send you a breakdown and part #'s of any parts you may need.. With the proper DB2 manual & this breakdown, you should breeze rite thru it..
Sent you a PM
Is this thread still open? I had the same issue on my 1986 1835B that I have owned since new. This is first time it has not run properly in all these years. I followed the advice above and located the issue as the return line check valve at the the top of the pump had seized. It was a couple of days work to remove and check from the fuel tank upward but ended in success. Thanks to all for the knowledgeable insight and advice.
Good deal.. The problem with this is, u can constru the problem as a faulty return connector (checkball connector) but if u look thru it and find black plastic pieces.. the problem is INSIDE THE PUMP.. There’s a plastic part inside the pump that breaks up and ends up in the checkball connector.. What I don’t want to see happen is u punch out the ball and spring.. So now it’s free flowing back to the tank.. and IF the plastic flex ring IS BROKEN, there’s a huge possibility that without the return connector, the engine may run away in time.. The checkball connector is a safety device that tells u you have a problem.. If u really wanna know how bad the problem is.. u can grab a wad of paper towels and remove the side cover on the pump.. hold the towels under the cover and let the fuel drain into them.. once done draining, look for little black mouse turds/coffee grounds in the towel.. Also look in the corner of the window of the aluminum housing.. The broken flex ring likes to gather there.. If all that checks out.. GOOD.
Thanks thepumpguysc Yes there were small dark items plugging the spring in the valve. I did not punch out the ball and spring but cleaned carefully with a syringe and diesel fuel. The machine had sat for four years due to an issue with the injector solenoid. Is is possible the the crud in the spring settled down through the line over that time? I am going to monitor it for awhile and see what happens. Does the plastic flex ring is broken does that require a pump rebuild?
Yes, it requires the pump to come completely down.. If indeed the flex ring is broken the rpm’s will start to surge and eventually become uncontrollable.. THATS how u know u let it go for to long..
I will take your advice and remove the side cover and check the fuel threat comes out. I am assuming the cover you are referring to is the small plate next to the info plate? Photo attached. Again tks for your patience with a semi mechanical user
Yes, that’s it.. w the screwdriver slots..
After a year I came to the conclusion I would have to pull the pump myself as I have contacted multiple diesel guys to help out but they just don't show up. Reason for me being eyesight not what it used to be. Thank God for younger son's to help. It' tight spaces on a Case skidsteer, so being careful it took us about 6 hours to take out. My qustion would be do I need special info to the pump rebuilder? We could not get near enough to locate engine timing marks, so we set lined up the lines in the pump as PG suggested and marked the line up of the pump to the mounting housing. Should I have done anything else. what wold I need to do to reinstall for correct timing? any help is always appreciated