I have a Case 450 tier 3 skid steer. I can not get the starter to engage. I am not getting any power to the solenoid when the key is turned to start. The previous owner had jury rigged the system to bypass the ignition switch and I am trying to get it back to original. I am trying to start it with the ROP up. I have the wiring diagram and it does not show any interlocks that should keep it from cranking. I have checked all the easy stuff (battery, cables, ignition switch, fuses.). What am I missing?
When you say you are not getting any power to the solenoid, do you mean no power to the large red cable bringing power to the solenoid , or no power to the S-Terminal that makes the starter engage. How many volts is there in your battery. Are you using a multimeter or test light. Just asking. Answer these questions and we will see if we can help. Simon C
Found my schematics for a Case SV 300 for Tier 3 Machines. Was looking at them. Not your exact schematic, but I will bet very close. Not overly complex but the power does go through a LOT of fuses, relays, and switches, not including the ECM. Can probably figure out with your input. Simon C
Thanks for the help. Battery at 12.5 volts and passes a load test. Same voltage at main battery connection on starter. Voltage to white wire for S-terminal to engage starter is .2 when key switch moved to start position. Has 12 volts at key switch. The previous owner said they thought it had a bad control unit but I cannot see from my diagram where the cranking function would be affected by a bad control unit. Feel like I am missing something obvious. Have also pulled every fuse and checked them with ohm meter. Have also rotated several of the relays around thinking maybe a bad relay.
Also, Starter will crank just fine using a remotesater switch directly to the solenoid.
It looks like it has a micro starter circuit relay instead of the large type. You may be loosing power at the relay in your fuse block. If you swapped repays, then I think you have a bad wire or bad connection on the wire that plugs into the relay, bad terminal.
Okay thanks for answering the questions. On the 30 pages of the schematic for Tier 3 machinesw up to size 380 the S-Terminal of the starter is fed by a white wire as your is the same. That being said the power that feeds it comes through numerous pages of schematic and comes from the instrument cluster Pin 9 Wire 622 on the machines I have diagrams for. Doubt if it is different on your's. Only 1 question, is there 12Volts at the Key switch S-Terminal with key being held in start position. If there is your Instrument cluster needs to be checked for power at pin #9 unless some safety switch is telling ECM not to send signal to Pin 9 Wire 622. The key switch will not be the final decision for whether to start or not from what I understand. The ECM will decide based on safety parameters. Simon C
Okay spent more time on the schematics. The crank relay control wire goes to a small ground once the coil is energized. You have numerous small ground wires on your unit. If one is green or loose, no go. If you were able to pull the crank relay up and plug it into female spade connectors hooked up to wires with male spade connectors gong into the relay base then you could check for ground from wire 944 Black to battery ground with a multimeter for voltage drop to see if the small ground wire is loose or broken. You would have to make this up as the relays have small pins on these Case machines. Just got some Tier 4 schematics , will see what I can find out. Simon C
I am not sure that that the 450 would have much in common with the Alpha series machines.
Ok, I'll try that. My schematic is not that detailed. thanks
Checked the white wire coming from the key switch, 12 volts in the Start position. Also have 12 volts coming from the 622 white wire coming from the control unit, also 12 volts. Going to source the stuff to make the jumpers you suggested. Getting closer I think.
Checked continuity between relay terminal 87 and starter lead - good, checked power at relay terminal 30 - 12.4 volts, Checked for continuity between relay terminal 85 and ground - good, Check for continuity between starter relay terminal 86 and Start/interlock relay terminal 87 - good, Checked for continuity between Start/interlock relay terminal 30 and start switch white wire - good. Going to pick up some new relays tomorrow, can't think of anything else. If its not the relays, I am truly stumped.
With the relay pulled out and jumper wires in between, a person can test if there is current coming out of pin 87. Cause just because the relay clicks does not mean it will carry a load. The small contacts inside can be burnt and pass a continuity test but start nothing. I have some made up for the bigger relays and have a clamp on to check how much current is leaving the relay. I plan to make up some of these leads for the Case Small Relays. Just found one today where the spade on the starter solenoid was too loose. Also found this summer on a key switch that had multiple push on spades in a common housing that the S-Terminal female spade needed to be tightened up. Hope you find it. Simon C
Hey Simon, finally got this figured out and thought I would tell you what I found. It came down to a corroded blade in the fuse box. Power to the number 19 relay wasn't getting through to activate the replay. Made a small file type cleaning device and went through and cleaned all female connectors in the fuse box. No problems since. Thanks for all the help. Dave
Congratulations on finding your problem. I don't have a problem figuring out what to check, it is the being bent over for 4 hours that makes me a little stiff. I have had to tighten up a lot of female spades over the years. All the best to you Dave. Simon C