My Case 450B has become more and more difficult to start over the last few weeks (temps here in the 70s and 80s). Cranking times to start have been going up steadily to the point now I need to give it a tiny puff of ether to get it to fire off. After that it cleans out and runs great, no smoke. There is some white smoke while cranking so it's getting some fuel it appears. Have good fuel flow to the filters, also blew the return line back to the tank just in case. Once the motor is warmed up it starts right up. Other symptom that's new is if I let it idle for a while (10 minutes or so) it loads up and won't rev/make power until you run it a full throttle for a bit to let it clean out. Was thinking about injectors but it runs so good once it's going I'm not sure. Any advice appreciated. Thanks
Remove the injectors and have them tested and while you're at it test the compression on engine.
Does it have glow plugs or a ribbon heater that are defective. They need to be checked if and before you do any injectors or more. Fuel pressure test would be good also. Simple things first. Simon C
No glow plugs or ribbon heater, has historically started easily even in winter (Texas). Am wondering if it's losing "prime" in some way after sitting for a while and not getting enough fuel to start? I'll need to get it back to my shop to pull injectors and test compression. Was hoping to find something I could fix in field before I bring it back to the house.
Check the return line fitting in top of IP and make sure there isn't any trash in it.
I'll go check that now, thanks
If there is any trash that means you have internal pump issues.
Ouch
No signs of trash in the return tee thankfully
I tried starting it after letting it sit for maybe 1 1/2 hours (motor still warm) and if I cranked long enough it tried to sputter a little but wouldn't fire off. Tiniest little bit of ether while cranking and it fires right up and runs great.
Brand new battery yesterday so it spins it pretty fast
If it is smoking it is getting fuel have injectors tested and compression too
Thanks, looks like that's where I need to go next. Runs like it always has (good) once it starts, hopefully just injectors doing something weird while trying to start. I would think if I had a compression problem I'd see a loss of power/oil smoke. Easy enough to check with the injectors out.
Before u rip into it.. Try holding the throttle WIDE OPEN WHILE CRANKING & see if there’s any improvement.. U said u blew the RETURN LINE back to the tank.. Try blowing the INLET LINE back to the tank.. Good luck
Tried wide open while cranking with no change, I'll blow the inlet line back to the tank tomorrow. Since it runs good at WOT I figured it wasn't starving for fuel but it's an easy thing to try. Thanks.
It could be loosing prime due to a tiny air leak that isn't leaking fuel. Could have a slight fuel blockage too. Not sure if your machine would have any hidden screens in banjo or other fittings. Maybe some fuel conditioner would help clean the IP and injectors. Blowing the inlet line out is simple enough.
If you have white smoke while cranking, and it's cranking over at a good clip and still doesn't fire off without a wiff of starting fluid, I'd say compression is low. jmho
May also be worth your time to check your air intake system from behind the air cleaner in, just to rule out any chance of dirt/dust getting into the engine. That usually doesn't do the compression any good, and it doesn't take long.
A good blast of WD40 in through the intake while cranking will improove compression and give you a clue if you are lower on compression. If you had some spare fuel lines you could hang the injectors from them even if one at a time to see how the pump is feeding them. Different tests but helpful in diagnosis. Simon C
I'm nervous about compression now, been pushing fire with a lot of soot/ash. Going to check the air side after lunch to see if any is getting by the cleaner.
Big hose from the air cleaner to the intake manifold was clean inside, whew, no dust or grit.
If you are pushing fires... the air filter isn't blocked? Have you tried to start it cold without the air filters fitted? Just another thing to check, before you do compression testing......
Interesting idea, I'll try that tomorrow for sure. Thank you.
Finally dried out enough to go give this a try, still no start with the air filter removed. I'm really leaning towards a small leak that's causing a loss of prime to the injectors somehow. I'll get it back up to the house in a couple of weeks to do some more troubleshooting. I'll post results. Thank so much for all the input!!
I had the same problem with my 350B and it ended up being the starter. It just was not turning it over fast enough even though I thought it was. Ether helped for a while and it progressively got worse.
My old trick to eliminate the fuel supply system from the injector pump is to use a garden sprayer hand pump and connect it directly (or as close as you can) to the injector pump inlet with clean fuel. This splits your fuel system in half with one half being the low pressure supply and the other half being the high pressure. You can get 10-20psi of good quality fuel pressure (plus whatever cleaner you want to pour in your diesel) that mimics a lift pump so you can better test your high pressure side. If you can quickly start your machine with this setup, the problem is probably in your low pressure fuel supply side...like a leak that lets in air or have trashy lines. If you still have to crank, crank, crank before you start your machine, then you probably have an issue somewhere forward like bad IP, clogged injectors, clogged return, low compression, etc. I know it's a little late reply but hope you figured it out.
Thanks to everyone for the input, I believe PNora's starter suggestion was it. Whether due to a bad connection or the starter acting up, the motor is spinning faster now and starts right up like it always has with no ether. I'm sure a tired old motor is also contributing but it just needed a little more cranking speed to start on it's own. Sort of explains why it only needed the tiniest puff of ether to fire off and would then run fine. Thanks to all again!