Just ordered some batteries for it. I've never heard of Leoch before. Any thoughts on them?
Oh yeah, pic of the dozer...
Not heard of battery brand, nice looking dozer.
Batteries are likely made by one of the more common brands. It is a nice looking dozer.
There should be a manufacturer listed somewhere on the battery label, The tractor looks to be a nice machine.
A local weldor fabbed this up for me
Looks good, let us know how it works. Thats on my list of mods/attachments I want for my 450C.
Would be a good idea to weld some hardfacing on the teeth, especially the tips.
Looks good, I bought one that looks very much like your's from USA attachments for $1200...if my memory serves me correct... how'd they use me in comparison?
Cost more that that to get this one made. How long ago was that? The cheapest I see on their site now is $2900
It was about 4 years ago, I bought several different attachments from them, I may have been wrong on that price...I think it was $1800.00 at that time? A bucket quick coupler was $1200 I think. The price of steel has gone up considerably since then.
Well I was a dummy last week... I knew the fuel tank was getting low but I could still see a few inches of fuel in it (gauge doesn't work). I parked and shut it off facing up hill on a grade and it wouldn't go into gear when it first started up (trans pressure needle at zero). I figured I'd let it idle a minute or two thinking the trans just needed to circulate oil a little longer being that it was parked on a slope. Well then it started sputtering and died. Now I have to bleed the fuel system after I add some fuel. And then hopefully the trans will engage... I understand running out of fuel on the slope, but why wouldn't it go into gear? It's not a really steep slope so I wouldn't think it would be starving for oil. I've had it on similar slopes with no problems before, but only when it was already running, never starting it up on the slope.
Sometimes transmissions need to be overfilled to work on slopes.
If the pump doesn't want to pick up , putting 1PSI of air into the fill port with a rag over while operating air gun can help push oil to the pump. That is if it has enough oil in reservoir as Tinkerer said. Simon C
On my 450c when the transmission oil is cold, ie first thing in the morning especially in fall/winter, sometimes it doesn’t like to prime the transmission pump. One trick I have figured out is move the forward/reverse lever and/or the track levers just a few seconds after it starts. For whatever reason this usually instantly primes the pump and the pressure gauge goes up to normal. I do recall one time parking with the front of the dozer pointing up a steep hill and it didn’t want to prime. I try to park it somewhat level or with the tank uphill whenever I can.
It was only a 17 degree slope (about 30 percent) but apparently enough to prevent it from priming. I added 5 gallons of fuel and got it running, then added a gallon or two of transmission fluid and rolled it down the hill to a slightly less steep spot and after idling for a couple minutes it finally came to. I will have to try to remember to park facing downhill if I can't park in on level ground in the future.
Casey and I got to work in the hills today
Does anyone else have a winch on a C series Case? This one doesn't work and I'd like to get it working. Seems like the lever only moves one direction. I assume it should move both ways but I don't know, since it was like this when I got it. It's on a job right now but I'll post some pics when I can.
Is your transmission in gauged the forward n reverse lever has to be in one or the other.
From what I'm reading in the manual, it should work in neutral. Unless I'm misunderstanding this:
I stand corrected I was thinking of the 1150 and 1450 machines.
Playing with the big boys Not pulling logs, just making a landing for the trucks to get off the road. Brought it home this morning so hopefully I'll get a chance to look at the winch controls soon.
Very nice, looks like you’ve got about as much snow as us. Any frost in the ground? We have a couple of inches at most right now.
No frost where there's snow & grass cover. Where it's been plowed is frozen, but not deep. Probably about the same as your area. Being warm like this winter has been sure saves on firewood!
Sure does!
The pressure hose for the transmission charge pump developed a significant leak last week, so I replaced that and changed the transmission fluid and filter. Also while I had the seat off for access to the hose, I adjusted the travel control detents. They were so loose that it was nearly impossible to tell when each lever was in neutral. Turned the adjuster screws in a little and now I have nice crisp action on all 3 valves. I took the hoses off the winch control and the lever moves easily with no pressure in the lines so I guess the problem must be inside the winch itself. That'll be a little more involved to tackle. Somehow I need to find a fairlead for it also, or better yet, an arch.
Resealed the blade lift cylinders
That was the first order of business when I got my 450C, it had been sitting for 9yrs so I had to repack every cylinder and replace every hose. The only ones that gave me a fit were the blade angle cylinders, the gland nut is fairly big on those and mine were seized bad. Took some heat, a 13' cheater pipe and a good whack with a sledge but we got them loose.
Sometimes ya just gotta get their attention.
The angle and tilt cylinders aren't leaking yet, but I have the seal kits for them for when they do start leaking or when I get a chance to do them ahead of time. Also have kits for the track tensioners.
Being prepared, now that's a novel concept.
Usually for me it just means that I have to buy parts twice because I can't find them if I don't use them within a month or two of buying them.
Badass gland gripper. Were you able to break gland loose with that awesome tool ,or was it just the speed wrench?
The left one was very loose and I could have spun it loose with the chain wrench after removing the retaining screw. But the right one was so tight it broke the pin on the gland nut wrench and I had to use a pipe wrench. The chain wrench was just a speed wrench.
I think I found the main problem with the winch:
Ouch!
Got the adapter off: Lower idler gear bearing is trash: And the bore of the gear:
I wonder if you could make a shrink fit sleeve to fit the gear?
I might be wrong and like the idea, question is how hard of material is it. Does a bearing run on the gear or a thin race.? Simon C
I was thinking the bore on the gear could be enlarged and sleeved down to the original size. I'd imagine the gear is hardened so welding would be out of the question.
I had been planning to machine out the center bore to a larger size and use an "inner ring" if I'm not able to find a new gear. The bearing has an outer race but the needles turn on the outer surface of the shaft.
Something like this should work: SKF www.skf.com
Still have a little ways to go.
I'm waiting for the repair sleeve "inner ring" to arrive so I know exactly how much to cut out of the inside of this gear. Meanwhile, since the cutter setup I was using in the above pictures wouldn't get all the way through the bore before hitting on the face, I made a boring bar to allow for proper bore cuts.
Nice job on building a small bore boring bar. Simon C
The bearing arrived, but now I need to find some round bar stock to make a new shaft. The rollers turn on the surface of the shaft so I think it is fairly hard but I have no way to test it. Any suggestions?
A few things. 1. That gear is hammered! Before I did anything on a repair, I'd even find a poor man approach to checking for cracks in teeth. I used to do sequential gearbox work. I recall one where I was doing a shaft swap for some other obvious reasons, but in my testing, I could not ignore that at a certain point in rotation, I got a very slight tight spot. I'm glad I did not ignore it, but with careful timing study, I was able to pin down the ratio to a certain gear set, in which one of them had a cracked tooth. It would have exploded instantly. A gear in your condition may have bound up or driven poorly on the tips of the teeth. 2. DITCH those damn bonded carbide bore bars! Buy even some cheap little insert cutters running cheap inserts like CNMT and thank me later! Your finish will thank you. You are running a neutral rake, and you want positive for that type of work, with a softer carbide insert grade so it will wear a bit, not break. You also want to get VERY picky in setup to get that insert on center. Shims work! 3. You need to know the concentricity and bore spec for that bearing. It's important because All bearings are designed for those two specs. If they are not hit, good bye bearing. I can't imagine a decent lathe not achieving requirements for that simple bearing but be mindful. .001" can very much decide if your bearings lives or dies a quick death. 4. Shaft, that shaft is absolutely hardened! No clue on grade or hardness now OTHER than you DO realize you can buy cheap hardness files,.....right? There are simple "what scratches what" tests. I still do that. If a basic HSS drill bit or end mill won't scratch that shaft, she hard. And you really need to watch for Chromium or other plating. Because that shaft is in double shear, short, etc, I might go with a higher carbon alloy, heat treat and run at full hardness. HOWEVER, you have to realize that shaft IS the inner bearing race! This means surface Ra or finish matters! If only using a lathe, take the time to spin in lathe and carefully polish that area. Not sand paper smooth, but you can see your reflection smooth.
Watching CEE video's 4140 is pretty common for new shafts. An engine machine shop should be able to magnaflux the gear. If not you could try die penetrant to check for invisible cracks. A Case 450 isn't a big HP machine so your repair if done right should work OK.
Thanks for the input! I am by no means a machinist and this is as much a learning experience for me as a repair job. This winch is not something that will see regular use, but more of a toy that I might use occasionally if I can get it working. I will look into getting some of the things you suggested. The shaft hardness and finish may be beyond my capabilities so I may need to find a machine shop to make it for me.
Is it a standard diameter, that could use a repurposed hydraulic cylinder rod?
I think you’re doing a fine job as an amateur machinist. The more you do the better you’ll get. 4140, harden it with a torch, quench in oil and temper in an oven. Make it a little long so you can hold it in the chuck. Leave it a couple thousands heavy and polish to size after heat treat. Cut to length with a cutoff wheel, clean up the end with a grinding disc or belt sander and you’ll be good to go.
What about pre-hardened 4140? 4140 Pre-Hardened Steel: Properties, Industry, Advantages, and Disadvantages Here’s why this pre-hardened steel is a go-to choice for manufacturers www.xometry.com
Prehard is typically HRC28-32, which is not hard enough to be a 'proper' inner race material. However, it might merge the line "good enough" for seldom use. The other issue is achieving a quality finish. The Ra of a race has to be very low, in which I rarely see manual lathes able to get there.
1.625". Is that a standard cylinder size?
Thanks. What temp would I want to heat it to for hardening? How long should I leave it in oil? Temper temperature and duration? I know nothing about hardening.
The only problem with this is that this gear train turns anytime the engine is running. But, maybe the rate of wear would be minimal with no load?
There's someone on the forum who is an expert at heat treatment but I can't remember his name. You could try looking in the archives or make a new post about heat treating.
We do lots of heat treatment here. I have done both the right way, and the Kmart way. I will explain the Kmart way because it will do. You will probably be using a torch. You would not really need to treat the ends as they don't spin, just the center area. You want the shaft spinning so you get uniform heating in that center area. Heat just until orange. Not red, not yellow, orange. This will be about 1600F. By heating quickly with a torch, it will NOT heat all the way through, which is exactly what you want. Then quench in any oil, not water, oil, at room them or 80-100F. I would not even mess with a temper on this. You should be about HRC65-68. Issue will be getting the right polish. Also know that once you do this, you can no longer lathe cut it.
Yeah, it would run that softer shaft quickly. We are actually an OEM of some shafts to fix this exact issue. Some other dumb company was spitting out softy shafts and the seals and bearings eat right through them. The needle bearings in that shaft are likely around HRC50.
A tempil stick would be the most accurate way to get the right temperature. Not too expensive either. I think you could polish the shaft using polishing compound and a buffing wheel.
1 5/8” shaft should be easy to get. Have you checked McMaster Carr?
Yes they have several different options. What would be the correct alloy to use?
Depending on how much machining but looking at the shaft you pictured, shouldn’t be bad. I would go with a 4140 polished shaft. You will need carbide to cut the ring grove.
It just has a ring groove and a ball seat (or whatever the proper term is). So shouldn't need much machining. I'll order extra in case I mess up the first one.
Meanwhile, I need a replacement armrest since the winch control is now gone. I copied the left one, now I just need to get it upholstered.
You can get special nuts that can be hammered into the plywood. Just dril a hole and inserts push in. Those armrests are very similar to the ones on my Cat. I got them for a reasonable price from Finney Equipment. I think they have them for Case too. About 50% less than OEM even with shipping to Canada. I'm not sure if they have reinforcement for the 90 deg. corner. The mounts they bolt to were pretty rusty but I try to keep it parked inside as much as possible. Not sure what I'm going to do at the new property. I can't afford a building right away. Might just throw a tarp over it.
Well this isn't quite what I was expecting. McMaster calls this a "smooth, polished finish": It is smooth, but not what I would consider polished.
I’d use thompson shafting if you can get it in the diameter you need. It’s case hardened and designed to be use as a bearing race surface.
The repair ring finally showed up after getting lost in the mail for a week. So I continued cutting the inner bore of the gear today, now that I have the actual item that needs to go in it. I was getting pretty close when I got a surprise - this gear already had a sleeve inside it, which is what I've been cutting: Once loose, it came right out Unfortunately, the resulting bore size of the gear is still just a little too small for the new sleeve: The sleeve OD is 63mm (2.480") and the bore of the gear is about 2.435". How much expansion/shrinkage can I get by heating the gear in the oven and putting the sleeve in the freezer? Probably not near enough... So I guess I should cut the sleeve down a little and leave the gear bore untouched.
The only problem is that I need to be able to cut a groove in it for the o-ring.
Freezer won't do much. I'd see if you could get some dry ice. Liquid nitrogen is best but not easy to get. I think you want about .002"-.003" smaller on the bore per inch of diameter. You could use Loctite bearing retainer too with a press fit.
Personally, I would cut the gear instead of the sleeve as you know you can get one of them again, if needed. Simple job, to chuck that shaft and polish the crap out of it but I am disappointed as usually McMaster is right on, on specs and description. That is not polished.
That's exactly why I was thinking I should cut the sleeve - I can get another one if I mess it up. If I mess up the gear, I'm out of luck. What should I use to polish the shaft?
You can buy polishing paste in different grades and use a buffing wheel. They make buffers that are similar to bench grinders but without the guards. If you have a bench grinder I'd look for a buffing wheel and take the guard off. Not sure if they make buffing wheels for angle grinders. They have buffers for paint but don't know if that would work.
I'd spin it in a lathe and use very fine sandpaper. I've used crocus cloth to finish polish a crankshaft
You can get a great polish with Crocus Cloth and even Grey scuff pads and we know you have a lathe. They make 1 lb blocks of different colored polishing clay blocks and when I want a high polish, I just push my red polishing block onto the shaft and it’s like chrome. I have a red polishing clay block, that’s going on 20 years old. I was thinking doing the gear, so you could always re-bush it if needed, wasn’t thinking of ruining it. Always cut 4 to 6 thou shy, especially if warm, it will shrink as it cools.
Dam. The crocuses aren't up yet and we just got 4" more snow. I guess I'll have to use sandpaper. Actually I think I have a yellow polishing block somewhere... I'll have to try to find it. I'm going to have to cut the inside of the sleeve a little to get the bearing to fit anyway, so I think I'll confine the cutting to the sleeve instead of the gear. I'm a highly skilled ruiner of parts so figured I'd start with one I can replace if need be.
Finally got the sleeve turned so it would fit inside the gear. My friend's 20 ton press pushed it in without any trouble. Now I need to turn the inside of the sleeve so the bearing will fit. The sleeve sure is hard to cut, but does end up with a nice finish.
How much interference should I plan on to get a press fit for this bearing without damaging it when I press it in? The bearing is 2.186" so I was thinking I would try to get the bore to 2.180". Will that be too tight or too loose? I want it tight enough that it won't spin.
Rule is 1 thousand interference per inch up to 6 inches then extra 0.0005 for every inch after. So 2.184 will be a tight enough fit with some blue loctite in side the bore and on bushing when pushing it in. I have put some in with 0.0005 tightness and used Loctite 601 to hold it in there with no problem. Loctite actually acts as a lubricant for pressing. Simon C
Ok, what about Permatex 64000 sleeve retainer? Will that or the loctite you mentioned hold up to continuous exposure to gear oil?
I have not used permatex 64000 but if it is sleeve retainer it will work fine in oil as long as you really clean all parts with brakleen with a white rag till the rag wipes clean. Cleanliness is most important. Simon C
Press Fit Tolerance: An Ultimate Guide - Xmake Press fit tolerance is crucial for achieving precise and secure mechanical assemblies. Learn how to calculate, apply, and optimize tolerances for press fit in machining. xmake.com Long story short, judging by pictures and what you described for size, I would aim for 3 thou to 5 thou. The green Locktite for shafts and bearings work great but unnecessary if fit is good, I use it more of a lubricant for pressing in. Use alcohol or wash with Dawn to clean. Make sure you account for heat, when cutting on lathe as parts tend to shrink when cooled down.
Freezing a part can be used instead of or in conjuction with heating the mating part. If you use liquid nitrogen you don't normally need anything else but have to work fast.
Off to it's new home:
All future posts about the winch will be in the 850D thread: HeavyEquipmentForums