Two days ago I went to look at a JD450...completely misrepresented by the seller...650 mile round trip to view a piece of junk. Today I looked at this Case. Starts well, steers and shifts well, good hydraulics...6-way was added, making it a dozer some time in the past. It does smoke, as well as has more than normal blow by. Seems it may have been a cable (spool reel on rear) tractor in the past, and I believe it has original tracks and sprockets, all good shape: 85% I'd say. Does anyone know the possible year this is? Anyone have any idea of the worth, reliabilty, and weeks spots with this machine? I'm on a dozer hunt, sure could use some input from any familiar with this old Case! Good machines? Stay away? Buy it now? Asking $9500. :beatsme
With the state of things in CA and the new EPA regs looming it would seem to be a buyers market in CA. I see a lot of good deals on the web from there for the last couple of years. Looks like new paint. I will not even look at a machine with new paint. Hope someone can help you out better
Thanks for the reply! Yes, dozers are popping up everywhere now...mostly the flat economy. As far as the paint, the fellow before him painted it. It actually helped me to see there was no injector pump leaks and such since the seller has used it. I just need some feeback on these Case dozers!
It is a bit hard to tell from the photo, but it looks like an early 450. I am guessing around 1974. It looks like it has the lighter tracks on it and judging by the position of the front idler they are pretty well worn. They went to bigger links etc on the later models and are generally beefier in the undercarriage. It will have the 188 Case diesel in it that is pretty basic in design and adequately powered. These are a pretty good machine. The trans is pretty well bulletproof and has 2 speed power-shift on each track as well as clutch and brake steering. The brakes can be a problem, so if they work ok now, that is a good sign. I have a Case 455c loader that I have had since new. Same trans, newer case/cummins motor, some refinements, but basically similar. If you could find a 450C dozer they are a better machine, but will be more pricey. I think the Case is the best in this size machine. Baz
Thanks for the feedback, Baz. I believe the tracks are original, as well as the sprockets, which are like new it seems. The pins are in great shape...I don't know how long this thing has actually been a dozer, as the 6-way has been added on. It has an extra pump that is not even plumbed to anything, plus has rigging mounts in the rear which makes me think it had a cable spool on back for most of it's life. The ripper is an addition as well; looks like a new toolbar. Brakes worked well, glad to hear the tranny is tough! Really do appreciate your comments!:drinkup
Where is the extra pump mounted? There is normally two pumps, one on the front of the motor driving from the front of the crankshaft, and the second on the side of the motor which is the charge pump for the trans. The charge pump should have a suction filter at one side and the pressure side goes to the trans. I can't imagine where you could mount an extra pump. Baz
Good question! Having not crawled under the machine my self, I took the sellers word that there was. He'd been under the machine the first week he bought it as it had been setting for years in a shed, and he said he blew 4 hoses his first week! He said it was an IDENTICAL pump as the main pump, behind the engine. Now you got me wondering about it!:beatsme
Methinks...actually quite sure now, that this was it's former life! A cable plow! This is an identical rig!
There are a couple of minor differences there, but they are similar enough to be sure that they both had the same application. Not sure where you would mount a pump at the rear of the motor. I think there is a pto on the rear of the trans. The motor has a torque converter dirrectly mounted to the rear, then a drive shaft to the trans.:beatsme Baz
The 475 was built as a cable plow. It has a 301 or a 336 engine depending on serial number. They used the bigger engine on the 475 for the extra horse power and you can tell by the intake manifold it has one of these 2 engines. It would also have hydrostat drive instead of the converter to get a creeper transmission for the plow work. Your extra pump would be the hydrostat pump to run the vibratory on the plow.
Hey Goose, Thanks for enlightening me to the 475 model. I was wrongly assuming it was just a special application 450, which I guess it is to some degree. I just did a bit of research and these are a pretty interesting machine. Looks like a Case 850 motor coupled to two hydrostatic pumps, One drives the 450 type 4 speed trans instead of using a torque converter/drive-shaft setup and the other drives the plow implements. You were correct **** about the two pumps. Correct me if I am wrong Goose as I have never seen one of these before. It also looks like they were cosmetically earlier looking than other Case models form the same year of manufacture. Case actually still have it listed in their on line parts catalog. It may make a great dozer, it would depend on how the hydrostatics translate to dozing applications. Baz (A little wiser now)
Yes it is basically a 450 dozer with an 850 engine and hydro drive. The front has an extention and the radiator is moved forward to make room for the bigger engine and I think the track frames are 1 roller longer. The transmission and final drives are the same as a 450 but have a drive motor suppling power to it instead of the driveshaft from the converter.
Not to say it is not a usable machine but I would worry about the strength of the blade frame. Welding on a six way blade unit to those cable drum carry arms, does not necessarily make them suitable for pushing soil. Especially with the more powerful engine in that machine. I also wonder about the track wear since the idler position looks close to the end of travel in the photo. But than again it depends on your expected usage. At $9500 you have to add up what you get and what you compromise by having the thing.
Goose, have you ever operated one of these? I was wondering if the Hydrostatic is capable of forward and reverse or just used as a speed reduction/control. If it is only speed control, then I would think that it may be a bit of hindrance to have to manually do what the torque converter does automatically when pushing and going form forward to reverse. Baz
The Hydrostat is controled with a vernier style cable and will go from 0 to max speed on the hydro side. You still have forward and reverse in the transmission as well as the hi/low track speed on each track for steering. It might a pain to doze with this type of machine with the added controls for the hydro and the loss of the slip and control you have with a converter. And definently beware oc the dozer blade. It does look like the chopped of the front of the reel carrier and justed added the dozer frame to it.
I used to work for a guy that had a 850B It smoked white and had so much blow by I had to pipe it in to the exaust so you would not get afixacated while opperating. That winter we tore it down hopeing for an in frame OH and the main journels were groved so much they couldnt turn the crank and it was std. Just rember case parts are high priced. I had over $3500 in parts includeing machine shop bill and a used crank and did all the labor myself. As for the rest of the dozer I would be leary of anything that had a fresh coat of paint and had been modified from original. As far forward as that blade is mounted it looks like it would be hard to hold grade. Remember you almost always get what you pay for. Dont go buy some morphodite machine just because it is cheap and your tired of looking. I dont mean to sound harsh but you could be buying yourself another job just in keeping it running. Good Luck
"Dont go buy some morphodite machine just because it is cheap and your tired of looking. I dont mean to sound harsh but you could be buying yourself another job just in keeping it running." Good advice. Have a look at the Case 450C dozer. I have had my 455C, (same machine in loader form), since new and it has been a fantastic machine. 9500hr and motor is still perfect and parts are common and cheap. Well balanced, enough power for it's size, never had any cracks or any real problems other than routine wear and tear. Mind you I have been fastidious with service and repairs. You may be better placed to buy a machine that was designed as a dozer from day one, than a purpose built machine modified to do something that you may have to make allowances for every time you operate it. The 450C Dozer was the last of this series and it is a machine that benefited from around twenty years of production improvements. It may be a better option even though initially it may cost more. The 550 owes a lot to the 450, but the popularity of excavators killed the 455C loader. Baz
If this is the case, I would imagine that the hydro drive is more of a nuisance than a benefit for this machine as a dozer. Baz
Thank you all for the awesome feedback. I too was concerned about the mile-long blade out there with those small rams. I don't want to ride a porpoise! And, it does have a bunch of blow-by. Don't get me wrong, I'm still looking...this coming week will be a 2000 JD450G with "3140 on the clock". Yeah, we'll see what a peach this one is. It was 25k for the longest time; now 20k...worth a look. And more driving. You guys are great! Thank you one and all! I'll probably have a JD thread going next week...