Looking at buying instead of renting for smaller work any pros or cons?
Id go for the deere. In my opinion they designed a true gannon tractor. Case is pretty much a tractor with either a backhoe or gannon box attachment. We're backfilling in a parking garage and we can use the deere gannons because they are shorter. The hydrolic ram diameter is bigger on the deere than a case, but the case does have two rams to curl the bucket instead of one like on a deere. The hydrolic and horsepower feel the same on both. I don't know if case has two seperate rams for side to side adjustment on the box or are they still just one and an idler arm on the other side? Its better to have the two, makes a big difference. Id go for the deere.
Dan, we don't use any skips in this neck of the woods. What is the pro's and con's of using one?
I've got some tight base rock work in between existing buildings, they are handy for filling in corners etc. and the Gannon box scraper gets in tight spots where the grader can't. We had a Deere rented, really a benefit to the work we are doing.
I like them both. Ran the Case before they got popular. They were the first platform machine, with the swivel seat and gannon controls on the fender. They also had downpressure before any others did. Most old hands liked the Fords, and I hated them. Most uncomfortable machine ever invented, IMO. The JD has really come on in the last 5 to 8 years as the go to gannon tractor. For me, I would worry about which dealer I got along better with , Case or JD. They are close enough in performance that the dealer would be the deciding factor. Also, if you can, get the 4-in-1 bucket. It is great for clean up duty. There are great deals to be found on these, as demand is gone, and the rental houses flood the market with late model used.
Thanks Jerry,the Sacramento Cat rental store has 12 Deeres and 6 case 04'-06' approx 2K hours up for sale, I'll take a look when I can and see if they will deal. Agree on the 4 in 1 bucket, there is also a dual tilt for the Gannon, I suppose it allows for greater angle tilt. We have both dealers here locally, my guys say Case for some reason probably what they are used to, I guess either would be fine, leaning toward the Deere though.
Here is some ammunition in case you haven't done it yet. They WILL auction what doesn't sell. Case: http://www.machinerytrader.com/list...ornia&ST=Nevada&LS=360&SO=26&btnSearch=Search http://www.machinerytrader.com/list...u=CASE&mdlx=exact&bcatid=4&Thumbs=1&scf=false Deere: http://www.machinerytrader.com/list...ornia&ST=Nevada&LS=360&SO=26&btnSearch=Search http://www.machinerytrader.com/list...=DEERE&mdlx=exact&bcatid=4&Thumbs=1&scf=false These are local market,(CA,AZ,NV) for the last year.
Deere IMO I've ran them all and that 210 is one stout little tractor. I've done demo with one even. The Dual tilt is nice, but not real important.
Some really good deals in those results I probably won't get that lucky but I did find a local (here in town ) rental co. with an 05' Case570, 4 in 1 and Gannon single tilt 1500 hours, straight, all seems tight, good rubber they are asking $19.8K which is right between auction price and advertised price, might make them an offer, Cat rental is rethinking their pricing, we will see
Case We've used Case box blades since the mid-seventies. Starting with a 580C (2 wheel drive),580E 4x4,580K 4x4,570LXT 4x4. Handy machines, save a lot of time on clean-up and small to medium size grading jobs.Also real good for snow plowing. Dominion:canada
I work on these in the dairy industry, dirty and lots of hours. Deere took a couple of years off to engineer the LE, it seems better than the c's and d's, still not comparable to the case. We have 2 570 Lxt and a 480LL, hours range from 3,000hrs to 12000hrs, very durable machines. A dairy I worked for a few years back bought a new LE, the brakes are internal in the rear diff housing. Oil capacity is minimal and they cooked the brakes in 500hrs, after that started changing the oil every 100hrs. Also lots of hyd hoses, some poorly located, replaced quite a few. These people loved JD but traded the LE in on a 570 after putting 1500hrs on the LE. The first skip loaders I worked on was around 96 two dairy's where 5 miles apart, one had a JD 210c the other had a 480LL, neither where perfect but the case was hands down a better machine, still is.
Sounds like they are hoping that reality has not set in. These rental houses will auction the ones that don't sell, and at 20K I would tell them I would walk away. They will get 15K at auction, then pay a 10% commision and net 13.5K You could show them the printouts, and probably get them to meet in the middle, if they really want to sell one. Hope it works out for you.
Exactly what I did, showed them your results and made an offer delivered to the job which is about 2.5 hours away. They are hum hawing around whining but have not turned it down, should know Mon. Thanks for your help. If they don't take it that's fine, I'll prowl the auctions after new years and continue to rent for the next phase which starts in 10 days or sooner depending on the underground progress.
Deere hands down, the case is just a modified backhoe the 210 was built from the ground up.
I am on my 3rd John Deere (over 12,000 hrs. total time). I have used just about every skiploader at some point in time. I prefer the John Deere by a large margin. If you are doing mainly loader work then most of them are OK. However, for finish grading, none compare to the John Deere. I just picked up my 3rd machine, which was used with 1605 hours, when my second machine went over 6,000 hours. I looked for 7 months before I found a good used machine with low hours for a good price. There are a lot of them out there, but a lot of them are pretty beat. I went to 6 or 7 auctions and only found 1 in what I thought was good condition. The bidding got too high on that one so I backed out. If you have any specific questions, I would be glad to try to answer them for you.
You might avoid buying an old rental. I know of a lot of GC that get and abuse the crap out of them never grease them ETC.
To late, I bought a Case and an Ex rental, it will do what I need and is in good shape
hope it works well for you. I bought one not long ago and I cant believe I ever worked without it. It a real versital machine once you get the hang of it. I use it for side walk prep. I lower it to about 1" above grade and pull it along like a paver. Have a skid steer load it from the rear followed by the compactor and your done.
The dual tilt makes life so much easier when finishing ab, and also improves production by allowing a longer drop for the box and with the single setup you would have to make more passes to flatten something if your cylinder is maxed out. We have 3 new deeded with over 1500 he's with no major issues to report. We couldn't have made as much on a job if it weren't for the deere. We were backfilling ramps in a parking garage and the clearence of the deere made it possible to work in it with the larger bucket instead of renting a skid steer.
Pics of Case, Hope my equipment doesn't get any smaller lol
Looking good. I see you got the 4-in-1 bucket even. Great choice. It looks pretty clean too. I am sure you will be happier with it. Yes, it is a bit smaller than the D-8's you started out with, but it will probably make as much money because it is so much cheaper to run. Thats what counts in the end.
What is the difference in these machines and regular tractors? I take it the box has extra hydraulic adjustment? I've run the old yellow fords which I don't really like but they are tanks. All the new stuff I've been on has just been compact utility tractors with a standard 3 point and a grade box on the back. They don't have the weight compared to the old fords and even a 4x4 model won't rip stumps out or move rock like the "yellow tractors." I've called them that since I was little.
There a bit more HD then your average AG tractor I bet. Plus the way the hyd 3pt is set up on the deeres and cases are a heck of a lot better then just a AG setup. You must of had one badass ford them because the ones I have ran are a joke compared to these.
These pourpose built skiploaders are miles ahead of the old Fords that used to be common here. They are a platform machine, and the old Ford operators thought they were unstable on slopes. Thing is, only the seat sets up higher. All the weight is still down low like the Ford. Now you have down pressure on the 3-point, instead of just float, so you can cut grade, not just drag over it. You can swivel the seat to see what you ared doing without breaking your neck, and the hydraulics are within easy reach on the fender, instead of in your lap like the Fords. The trans and torque are beefed up to handle directional shifts without coming apart like the older ag conversions. They would pull good, but would fail early when reversed all day long like a skip does. The box has one or two tilt cylinders, and one for front to rear pitch, which controls cutting depth. You can still float like an ag tractor, but it will hold position normally unless you go to the float detent. Rippers are hydraulic raise too. Diff lock and declutch are electrical, with a button on the loader lever, as well as floor button. My pet hate on the old Ford was that to run it and see what you are doing, I would turn in the seat and throttle with my left foot. The diff lock was a floor lever on the left, so I would have to stop, move left leg over the hump to activate, then kink my neck to work until diff lock was no longer needed. Very uncomfortable, to say the least. As far as the weight goes, these are about 14 to 15K, more with loaded tires and wheel weights, and around 100 horsepower. Plenty of grunt compared to the ag tractors. I don't know what size yellow tractor you are comparing to, but it would be hard to beat these new Case and JD machines
I got you, overall more weight, more power, and more hydro on the back end. I don't know if there was more than one old yellow ford. You know, everything you described plus the nice touchy hydraulics and the well worn seats. All the ones I worked around have been scrapped. Their replacements are either New Holland or JD compact utility tractor/loaders. They do alright but don't have the weight the fords did. You can change the top link out on a 3 point for a hydraulic one which would give you control of the front back angle from the seat but you need remotes. You'll still be stuck with the rippers but the light tractors don't have enough weight to pull those anyway.