Hi all. I just bought a Case 580CK and have a bad oil leak coming from the brake cover area. I checked the rear diff oil and it is several inches above the full line. And appeared to be thinner like hydraulic fluid. I just need to know how it got there? Is there a seal between the transmishion and the differential that's bad and letting hydraulic fluid in to the diff? Or did the previous owner put it there?
I'm not familiar with the unit, but typically that would be from bad brake seals, assuming it has inboard brakes. Every time you hit the brakes, you'd be pumping oil past the seals and into the rear differential.
dad2six, There is a seal. However, it is located between the transmission and the torque tube. So the differential and the transmission both share the heavy weight oil. The torque tube that holds the power shuttle and torque converter has the hy trans fluid. I would pull the transmission cover (cover with gear selector) and first check to see if there is a plastic plug in the upper right corner (when the cover is off, stand on the left side and look toward the front of the tractor). If the plastic piece is there and doing its job, then the seal may be the issue. The reason the fluid is seeping from the brake covers is because of the differential seals. There is a great thread by 1968 Case 580CK where the brakes and seals are replaced. I used the info from that thread to replace mine. Search 580CK and see all the great threads. Xpackdeals, 68, Juskatla, packrat, myself. We have all posted good info on these. Xpack recently restored his and really went the extra mile. His thread is 1970 580ck Gets her name and surgery.
There are no internal brakes on that series, the possibilities are the front of the top transmission shaft, a cup plug in the rear of the top shaft if not equipped with the PTO, OR, a missing or damaged plug up under the 4 speed cover. The first 580s to have wet brakes was the Phase 3 Ks.
Is yours the power shuttle if so it could be a leak between the shuttle compartment(transmission) and rear end compartment there are seals to keep the 2 from mixing..I have a 1970 ck and just replaced the seals in mine. If you have a power shuttle model hytrans oil is what the shuttle compartment takes and that is thin like hyd oil....The rear end i run 80-90 gear oil...I have heard of people using the hytrans in both compartments so if it develops a leak it will be the same kind of oil....If you have power shuttle there is a separate dipstick for that oil check it to see what it reads it is further forward and to the right than the dipstick for the rear end check to see if it is overfull that may tell you if theres a bad seal between the 2. as far as the oil leak coming from the brake cover there are seals inside and behind your brake assembly that are probably leaking and the oil you are seeing is from the rear end compartment and if its leaking bad it wont take long for your oil level in the rear end to drop ..... here is a pic of the rearend while it was split and i have took off the cover where the seals are.... here is a pic of the cover with the 2 seals installed here is a pic with the cover installed to the rearend There is also a plastic plug that has been talked about on this link that may be a problem heres some stuff about it in this thread go to page 7 and read it it talks about that plastic plug in the rear end under the shifter cover.You might enjoy this whole thread lots of good stuff.... HeavyEquipmentForums Here is another thread that has a lot of good stuff about the ck's HeavyEquipmentForums Do you have any pics of your ck you can post ?? There are a bunch of great guys on here and they are very helpful if you need anything else feel free to ask.....someone will answer ....
Wow thanks for the info guys! I have lots to learn for sure. This is my first piece of heavy equipment. Here are a few pics of my 1967 580CK
If you haven't already, I would drain the oil as you may have water in it. I haven't got that far with my project yet, but will be splitting off the rear and dealing with similar issues. I had a little water but my machine is normally parked under cover. The guys have already posted good info about the seals between the transmission and whatever you have in front of it. Mine is like xpack's with a power shuttle. Good luck, you will find the experienced members on here will help out and the rest of us will keep posting up what we run into on our old tractors. Without this forum, I would have already been on trouble. Over the past 5 or 6 years there have been a couple of very interesting, informative and entertaining threads. You would do well to read them all when you have time, as they reference most common issues we have been running into.
Is that lever on the left side of your seat a shift lever or is it to adjust the seat...If that is a shift lever on the left side of your seat i dont think yours is the power shuttle at least mine dont have that lever but there is a guy on here who im sure will catch this thread his name is 1968 case 580ck and he has the mechanical shuttle on his and he has some great threads about his.....maybe when you can get some more pics of the top of the tranny and shuttle area and maybe a few of your steering column area and post them so we can try to figure out what you are dealing with .... Here is a shot of the top of the of mine which is the power shuttle the dipstick for this shuttle is under the big nut in front of the shifter just to the right the one behind the shifter is the rear end..... And like Jusk said definitely check for water in the oil especially if this has been stored outside .... It also looks like you dont have the linkage coming out of the brake cover and if thats the case someone has been there in the past when i got mine it was missing a lot of the brake parts on one side i have read the brakes get hung up and i think thats what had happened to mine and some knucklehead left some of the internal parts and the cover off so i had to get replacements and fixed mine......
Great pictures, It looks pretty much original from what I can see. Original colours too. Many are not so nice looking after years of abuse. Is there an additional valve for add on hydraulics? I have been looking at adding a circuit for the front end loader to run a clam to pick up and hold objects in the front bucket. Things to look for are the gusset plates on the right side loader arms, and damage to the top of the hydraulic reservoir towers from rolling back the bucket in conflict with the levelling cylinder. Yours doesn't appear to have either of these repairs from what I see in the pictures. They are relatively easy to work on and although not inexpensive to repair, cheaper than many more elaborate newer tractors. If you don't already have the manuals, I would highly recommend that you look for some. Service Manual, Parts Books for Tractor, and Backhoe Loader, Operators Manual for Tractor and Operators Manual for Loader Backhoe. You can find access to the Parts Manual on the Case web site. I don't have the link but someone else may post it for you. The rest of the manuals can be found used in the usual places or you can get a CD. I prefer the paper manuals to study but that's just a personal preference. Few special tools are needed and other than a decent pair of OTC crowfoot wrenches and couple of the bigger combination wrenches for hoses, I have managed with just the usual hand tools most of us accumulate over a lifetime.
Mine looks just like yours xpackdeals! And thanks for the pics that really helps. And the lever it's to adjust the seat. I have the shuttle shift I believe.
Thanks Juskatla I thought it was not too bad for being almost 50 years old! And yes good eye there is a aux hyd valve to run a snowplow that came with it. It also came with tire chains for all 4 wheels.
Thanks fliptop10 I will pull the top cover and check for that plug first.
Thanks melben sounds like you are very knowledgeable
Yea its hard to tell from the pics but if yours looks like mine it probably is the power shuttle but they made what they call a mechanical shuttle for them to and that is what 68 case has and there are some differences between the 2 does yours have a clutch pressure gauge in the dash if so i believe yours is the power shuttle i dont think the mechanical shuttle has that guage....if you can see it mine is just left of the center gauge in the pic and just curious how much pressure are you showing when yours is running in neutral it should be around 180....
Wow yours look clean clean! Here are a few more pics of my beast
D26- That's a good looking crew you have. The tractor isn't too bad either... You have a mostly original machine, even with Old Abe still watching ahead. Any of the small stuff is easy, and available locally like the headlamps, shifter knob and the like. When I got mine years ago, the grill was missing so I used a section of grid decking and it looks original and protects the rad and pump. A steel pump guard is missing in your pictures but I saw one on Ebay so they are likely available for little cost. As you get deeper into it, there will be some more expensive repairs but in the end well worth the time and cost.
D26.....Mine started out like most and looked about like yours and i ran her and fixed some things for a few years and just this winter i spent a couple months turning it around ...Yours is the power shuttle for sure and it is in pretty good shape ....i have seen them a lot worse shape and there still using them....Im glad i bought mine its fairly easy to get parts for and its just a workhorse.......After seeing your pics i noticed the shifter doesnt have the rubber boot on it and with that boot missing my money says theres water in the rearend i doubt your seals between the the 2 compartments or that the plastic cap inside is missing....If it was me i would do like jusk suggested and drain all the oil out of the rearend and and put 80-90 back in it and get a new boot for the shifter and do whatever you have to to protect it from the weather tarps ect....Mother nature raises havoc on a lot of stuff with these i had mine at my friends and it was outside for a week and got water in the oil bath breather thankfully i cought it before anything happened.... Once you get going on this feel free to ask questions these guys are great at helping with these and theres a few guys including myself who have tons of pics of the different things we have done to ours that are very helpful if you need a certain pic of something just let us know im sure someone has it.... heres how mine started out...... after a lot of hours of repairs and paint and learning ....i have meet some great guys on here who helped me with this project here is what she looks like now.......
Dad2Six.......Howdy fellow 580CK owner. Sorry it took me so long to reply, but I have not been getting email notifications from the H.E. site. I have a 68 580CK, and did a pretty detailed thread on how to rebuild your brakes, including the seals that often go bad which allows oil to leak down onto the brakes and cause failure. Alot of great people on this site, always willing to help, and to clown around here and there. When I was reading the information above, my first thought was that maybe your gear shifter boot is worn out, or even missing, and the tractor has been sitting outdoors getting alot of rain......and water has been running down the gear shifter and into the tranny/rear end. Also could be a bad seal along the top of the rear end cover or the tranny cover. So, when you drain the fluid, try to see if it is water or just thin hydraulic fluid. (If you had a big clear bucket, you would see the water slowly begin to reform at the bottom of the container after it sits awhile). Here is a pic of my CK......does yours have the Hi/Lo Range gear selector in front of the 4 speed Gear Shifter? If so, then I believe you have the mechanical shuttle like I have.
Xpackdeals Wow quite a transformation you did! Nice work. Your thought on the shifter boot is s good one. I will have to drain it and go from there.
68 case I will be checking out your thread for sure. Your also thinking he boot I will let you know how it goes. One thing I just thought of is one of the transmission top cover bolts was missing. The one that holds the floor board on. Wondering if that goes all the way through to the case? Could have let water in as well.
So mine came with just a 12" trencher bucket. I have a mountain to move on my new property so I found a 30" used bucket in the local online classifieds for $350 and picked it up last night.
d26----heres a pic of that shifter boot also keep in mind that i hear about water getting past that boot even when its on there unless its covered I cant remember if those bolts go all the way threw but i think your right with that one missing it has allowed water in as well heres the best pic i have of those holes it looks like the one on the right is all the way threw so i would assume the one on the left is also.... Just wanted to throw this out there to you a great source for parts that 68 case turned me onto is a guy named Dale he is out of indiana and ships new/used right to you he has a website www.e-backhoeparts.com phone # 765-378-3396 the name of his business is tractorstuff.I was very glad 68 turned me onto him he is one heck of a guy to deal with i bought a lot of my stuff from him.....
d26---After looking closer a you pics i think you got a better deal than i did it looks like yours came with beer i noticed the empty on the floorpan ....Im gonna have to start negotiating a little better or was that from the celebration of buying it :drinkup hahaha
Awesome thanks for dales info! That's not a beer, it's operator repair fluid
Dad26.....Regarding the rubber boot, I have been intending to run a bead of silicone along the top of the boot just in case the tarps blow off and it gets rained on. The boot helps alot, but after they get old, water can seep along the inner edge and make its way down into the tranny. I took my covers off and was able to totally flush it out with some old diesel fuel, and used a brush to get everything real good......and I had some metal chips from the gear teeth that would only come out with a cheap extension magnet pick up tool. Here is a pic of my mechanical shuttle with the two front covers off: I dont think that bolt hole goes all the way through on mine, but I could be wrong. Here is the rear end with the cover off....you can see some of the teeth were worn/chipped off a bit: This has the side seals which will leak oil into the brakes if they go bad.
I love all the pictures guys!! It really helps seeing what I'm working with. Thanks!!!
Good one......you should probably stock up on some operator fluid ...after a few busted knuckles and some new vocabulary after wrenching on that old girl you will probably need a few refills ....:beerchug 68 can probably give you a few pointers on how to tarp that old girl as he tarps the heck out of his to keep the weather out of it..If you dont have a building to put it in....
68 did you see where jusk pointed out that d26 still has old abe on his lets hope his aint the trouble maker mine has turned into but then again his is probably truly old and mine is young and you know this generation one thing on the brain hahahahhaha
Ok ok what's old Abe? I saw that said before and did not understand
dad, I'm agreeing with '68 and xpack. That shifter boot of yours looks like a funnel and with no cab or cover - it's likely been collecting rainwater. The oil then floats on the water raising the level on the dipstick. The water will separate from the 90wt much easier than it would from hydraulic or motor oil. If you let it sit for a while - longer the better - you can loosen the drain plug a little without removing it and see if water doesn't start dripping out. [as long as it's above freezing] It will leak past the threads easier than the thick 90 wt. You can get most of the water out that way. When oil or muddy oil/water combo appears, most of the water is gone. I'd still change the oil - but at least you'll have separated out most of the water. There could be quite a bit.
dad, you'll have to ask '68 and xpack about ole Abe - or read about his exploits with the Voodoo Queen on Xpack's thread - it's toward the end.
Ok I will. To add insult to injury I found what looks to be maybe a breather that is missing in the transmission case just behind the seat along water directly as well
d26.......I would love to fill you in on old abe but that award must come from 68 as he is the one who can give you the clean version of old abe and he is the one who turned me onto it as well..... after he has explained it to you i will gladly tell you what i know and as grady has said if you read enough on some of 68's or my threads you will most likely end up getting a laugh or 2 out of them...Im sure 68 will catch this sometime today..... Your right there is a breather that goes in that hole behind the seat heres a pic
ointlaugh :lmao Xpac......Thats a good one. Yep, his Old Abe is probably getting up in years, and probably no longer has any desire for the Voodoo Queen, or any other fancy woman perched on top the radiator cap as on yours. But then again, if his "Old Abe" were to see Marie Lavaue, his old bones may start to warm up a bit. Dad 2 66.....Here is Old Abe: Old Abe is the wild Chrome Bird perched between the headlights, and with the big nuts beside him. He is celebrating Christmas with some friends, and waiting for Marie Lavaue to fly down from Michigan for a visit. Xpac will tell you about the nutz.
Dad2 600......Hey, you just taught me something new.......Looks like someone moved my breather from its original spot, and put it more to the front. Xpac thinks someone took the original seat off and put a 580 B seat post on mine.....and I guess the breather was in the way and they moved it to the front: You never know what changes have been made over the past 50 years.....always a new surprise. Yep, you were getting a ton of water in the rear end with the boot like that, and the breather missing. Glad you are going to fix that issue. I would suggest taking the top cover off so you can inspect and give it a good flushing and hand cleaning.
Thanks for filling me in on Old Abe. I'm surprised it stayed on there for 50 years...must have used some heavy duty hubba bubba Yes good call I'm going to pull the top cover and have a looksee and clean it out on Sunday.
So this morning I pulled off the trencher bucket and attempted to install the new 30" Bucket I picked up yesterday. The top pin fit just fine but the lower one was a couple inches too short. the correct diameter but just too short. After some research found the correct pin and got it coming. I also ordered a shifter boot and shift knob. I also took the left stabilizer ram as well as the left front bucket ram off to rebuild them. Then I had to go to work.
D26.....So long story as short as i know how to .......Seems Old Abe is a case symbol and 68 bought his from Dale and when Dale shipped it he forgot the nuts that hold it in place and after starting my project and meeting 68 and Dale i was made aware of the joke it had turned into...... anyway after all the work i did on mine i felt it just wasnt complete without mine having a Old Abe bird but it seems mine was sent with plenty of nuts and I added a little twist to it there is a little story about it on my thread ...Like Grady said when you have time you might want to read the post its pretty funny and these guys helped make my whole project fun and plenty of laughs ......anyways here is a pic of what to look for on my thread im sure the pic will kinda tell you what Old Abe was up to......And lets just say that (young) Old Abe on mine has been a trouble maker every since .... :falldownlaugh:falldownlaugh
Xpac.......Thats gotta be the funniest picture ever posted on the Heavy Equipment site. There is ALOT going on in that pic, for sure. :lmao:lmao:roll:roll:bouncegri:bouncegri:roll:roll:drinkup
hahaha yea its amazing how it starts out as a rebuild and ends up like that but thats ok i had a blast doing it.....like Grady had said let this be a lesson for those who are considering breathing as much paint as i did doing this project....hahahahaha D26....About now your probably thinking were crazy and i assure you were only part time crazy i think :crazy:crazy:crazy:falldownlaugh
[..About now your probably thinking were crazy and i assure you were only part time crazy i think :crazy:crazy:crazy:falldownlaugh[/QUOTE] Na you guys sound like my kind of guys! Old abe story is awesome!
d26....let us know what you come up with on the water/oil thing ..........
Will do. FedEx dropped off a present for the hoe today
Gotta give it to you it looks like your right after getting her ready to tear up some ground i seen that 30" bucket you got and i dont blame you that 12" is small but i would hold onto it as it might come in handy trenching and digging stumps i think mine is a 24".....
Hey guys I'm trying to look up and order all the filters I will need. Engine oil, Fuel, Hydraulic I think there are 3 different ones on my tractor? But there are many different options a im getting confused do you know the part numbers I will need for all the filters? My Serial Number is 832333
Dad 2 6000.......explain how that Titan knarley tooth gadget works.....does it mount to the end of the backhoe bucket? Intended to break up the ground, like a subsoiler on a tractor?
Dad26.......I highly reccomend that you contact Dale at Tractor Stuff (Xpac gave his number already), as his prices are amazing, and he will answer all those questions which you dont even have yet. Filters......there is also a power steering filter which many dont know about, and Xpac and I had a contest for having the dirtiest power steering fluid......he won that one.
Here is a video of the manual thumb. It's a different brand but you can get the idea. And when you don't need it, it just folds out of the way. http://youtu.be/0qo1oGWB_ek http://youtu.be/tK301WNnVGI
Thanks for the reminder yeah that sounds a lot easier than trying to figure it all out myself
d26 no doubt Dale is the easy way to go he knows his s--- but if you want to get them at napa they have them to or they can order them heres a list of what you need of the filters and i might have the napa#'s if you need them ..... 1) power steering filter which is located in the pump reservoir you remove the acorn nut on the end of the reservoir and the whole reservoir comes off to access the filter and the oil you put back in is hydraulic oil (it is messy) but like 68 said it needs to be done mine was real bad..... 2) there is a primary and secondary fuel filter located on the left side of the engine in the fuel canisters...... 3) there is a hydraulic shuttle filter in a canister in front of the radiator on that canister there are 4 bolts on top to remove the top cover dont throw away the oring you may need to reuse it ..... 4) there is a hydraulic oil filter for the loader and backhoe hydraulic oil they share the same oil so this filter covers both there is a spacer pipe between the left and right side tanks right above the fuel tank all the way to the right of that pipe where that gauge is screwed into the bottom of that canister...That canister has a big nut built to the top of it you remove the top and the filter inside is for the hydraulic oil..... 5)The air filter is a oil bath breather just open it up and drain the old oil and clean the metal filter with some diesel and refill oil with motor oil..... 6) the engine in that should be a 188d if its diesel so you just ask for a oil filter for that engine ....It is diesel isnt it ?????? There is also a breather for the shuttle it is right under the fuel tank it looks like the one i sent you for the rearend that yours is missing its not a bad idea to take the cover off of that and blow it out (muddobbers) Also while your there with this power shuttle its not a bad idea to make sure the fins on the radiator are clean as there is a oil cooler built into the radiator which your shuttle oil passes threw..... The hydraulic oil for the loader/backhoe is filled by removing the pipe plug on the right side of the tractor i think it is a 7/16 wrench its about 12" or so from the top of that tank and the breather cap on the top of the tank on the right side the add hyd oil threw the top until it comes out that plug hole and put the plug back in .....i ended up building a sight glass for that plug hole so i didnt make a mess filling it and i dont have to mess with that plug it in that thread i sent you earlier...... I hope i havent forgot any filters but if you have any questions about any of this feel free to fire away with them.......
Yes it's the 188 Diesel I will get with Dale on the filters.
580CK Loader Backhoe Common Filters I'll post this here for the benefit of anyone looking for a Case part number out of the Parts book to cross over to other filter makes. Some of the Case numbers may have been superceded but they are a starting point. The shuttle and loader/backhoe hydraulic filters were sourced from the Case dealer but come from Fleetguard, which I believe are Hydraulic Filtration. The fuel filters are Fleetguard made by Wix. The power steering pump filter and O ring are Case but you might be able to find them aftermarket. I didn't have a spare 188 diesel engine oil filter to show, but the Case number will cross over to Fleetguard, Wix and a lot of other names. If anyone has other numbers or info, please post them up.
Thanks!!
I pulled the covers off and this is what I found.
I drained the water out of the rear till just oil was coming out. And it was at this level. Sorry I'm not sure why it's flipping the pictures upside down.
Good that you got the water out. It may just be an optical illusion but it looks like the oil level in the differential section is higher than the transmission. I don't have mine open yet, but since they are a single fill, I would have expected the levels to be the same. You do have the tube between the torque tube/shuttle and the transmission pinched off, so that isn't likely a problem. You should get 68case, xpack and maybe one or two of the other guys on here to give you some feedback on the oil levels.
Dad26.......Wow.....that was alot of water you drained out.....glad to see you got it out. Looks like all the teeth on your gears are in great shape. Mine had some pretty bad chips, and I got all the chips and fine metal out with a magnet when I flushed it and put fresh oil in. With the level that high, Im surprised that you did not have some serious oil leaking out along the brake shoe seals.....so, those seals must still be in good shape. Here is a pic of when I filled-up the rear-end with fresh oil: You can see the dipstick, and I think this is the correct full level. Heres a pic showing the crud in the bottom......so, since you went this far, I would reccomend that you also drain out the old oil and then put the plug in and maybe add a couple gallons of diesel to slosh around and help get the debris out....then drain, and use a magnetic tipped pick-up tool to fetch any metal if its laying on the bottom: Heres the cleaned diff., and ready for fresh oil: And I believe this is the correct full level in the tranny, as it was taken after I had filled up the rear end with fresh fluid......and I "think" that the fluid had equalized the same in each since there are holes on the bottom that connect the two chambers:
D26 & 68case, I checked mine and its high, as expected due to the transfer from the shuttle to the trans and diff. The dipstick has a mark on it, down quite a ways from where mine is sitting. I can now confirm that I have oil transferring from the torque tube into the trans and diff, because I put less than a full pail in when I changed it last and there is no water in mine now. D26, Once you decide what you are going to do, and if you change the oil, you can better keep an eye on the level to see if you have issues other than the water coming in the open vent. The book says 17qts for the trans /diff. I'll see how much I get out when I eventually drain mine for the split. Those are great pictures from both of you.
Jusk......What I cant quite understand is why the fluid in Dad26's tranny wasnt alot higher......if his differential case was that full, then why didnt the fluid flow thru the holes and fill up the tranny box alot higher? Any possibilities for this to happen?
True, I had not thought of that. Why would it not go back in to the trans case the diff case was much much fuller than the trans
d26 Im with 68 that should of been even between the tranny and the rear end while you have them covers i would look and try to see if something is plugged up or if you can see why this isnt allowing oil to transfer between the 2.....I really didnt look at mine that close when i had it apart so i cant say for sure how it transfers between the 2 but there has to be a way.....It looks like someone has been in there before because of the crimped pipe in the hole which should do the job.. How much water did you get out 1-2gal and does that oil thats in there now seem like hyd oil or 80-90wt it looks like it went down to close to where it should be now ?????
I drained out around 1 gal or so of water. And it's deffinitly just hydraulic fluid. Looks like new clean fluid too
Hey d26 have you checked the oil level in the shuttle yet i havent heard you mention it if so where do you think it compares to the trans oil level ??
D26, Keep in mind that the trans and diff call out for SAE90 Gear Oil, the shuttle and torque convertor use Case TCH, now Hytran Ultra, not hydraulic oil and your Power Steering and Loader Hydraulics can use either Hytran or a quality hydraulic oil. One of the reasons I'm splitting mine at the trans is to replace the seal and check that pipe between the cases. The two shouldn't be mixing and mine is increasing oil in the trans/diff case. There is lots of discussion on using the Case Hytran but in my limited experience it has been superior to other similar oils.
This is the only pic I could find, but if you look close, you can see a hole near the front bottom of the differential case.......so the gear oil should flow thru this hole and equalize in the tranny box in front. I am confused how the levels could be that much different. Any suggestions? Clogged hole at bottom?
d26 if all else fails drink enough of that operators fluid until it looks like they are even hahhaha On the shuttle oil i bought the hy trans from tractor supply at about $35.00 for a 5 gallon bucket when i first did the rebuild on mine and with it being cold out it had to warm up some before it would move and because i wanted to know how much difference the case brand oil would make to this i went and bought the hy trans from case at about $100.00 for 5 gallons and mine will move as soon as you start it now in cold weather so the oil does make a difference..I always warm mine up before using it ....except during this little test.....And the shuttle only requires something like 16 qts .....and the rearend being around 17 qts of the 80-90 the rear end i am using the tractor supply stuff..... By the way does your seem to move ok or does it seem sluggish just curious ???????????
Mine moves much better after about 1 min after starting. Then it moves good. When I first got it the oil in the shuttle was very very low and it did not want to move. I filled it up and it moved fine but then the leak out of the brake cover got much worse. Suggesting the shuttle oil is moving between the 3 cases. Speaking of the tractor supply store. I went there the other day and picked up this suspension seat on sale for $89.99 seemed like a deal.
I put the bumper on and made a grill for it this morning. Just need to paint it black.
d26 i agree with you with you something dont seem right if adding shuttle oil and it starts leaking worse at the brakes....After you find out why the oil isnt transferring between the trans and rearend i would be tempted to drain everything and refill both with the tsc hy trans because its cheaper just so you can use it for now until you can fix the problem then go with the case oil ....I have read where guys did that because they had a leak between the 2 then the worry of the 2 mixing didnt matter the only thing i would wonder about this is does the shuttle and trans oil level match???? That does seem like a good price on the seat you just want to check that you have enough room to spin that seat after you mount it and you will propably need to fab something for your original mount i think jusk put a plate on his original mount and adapted the seat to it ...I did some bending and welding to get mine tofit there is a post about that on my thread..... Also i think this seat qualifies your seat to have the title Barco lounger with options we shall see what 68 calls it my old one was from one of those power scooter and grey and cloth and 68 named it my Barco lounger yours looks like you could of got a optional beer holder better order it you will want it ......hahahaha nice job on that grille looks good..........any idea what the slots are about on that bumper ????????????
Barco lounger HA Ha Yeah the slots made it easy to hold a wrench on the nuts holding the bumper on. Someone cut them just for that reason
Xpac......Yep, that new seat that Dad26 got definately falls under the BarcoLounger title......maybe add a nice sheepskin cushion and that beer holder that Xpac was speaking of, and you got yourself a Custom BarcoLounger. Good idea with those wrench slits on the bumper, and beautiful new grill you made!
I cut and welded the seat platform from the steep angle it was on to flat and mounted up the seat. Fits me good (I'm 6' 4") And it can still swivel around and lock in the forward and back positions.
Thanks. Just cut it from some scrap
D26, Looking good. Now you just need to follow 68cases example to clean and paint a bit at a time to perfection, or xpacks and completely dismantle the whole tractor and repaint everything almost at once. :cool2 Or, what I'm doing, which is not a heck of a lot right now....:bash Good work on the grill and seat. My grill is cut our of some scrap grid decking similar to yours and I think is a common retrofit. The mod to the bumper is interesting, I guess it was too difficult to reach in from the top with a wrench to hold the nuts. My seat mounting is the stock setup like xpacks, with the slider height adjustment. Yours may have been modified or be a later version. It makes that new seat look like stock. In the picture, I noticed you also have the common front end loader options, a repaired right frame lift arm and the leaky lift cylinder. Are you needing to do only gland and rod packings or is your rod scored? I have had several cylinders rebuilt, with a new stainless rod, tube honed and all new packings. Like new, but costly...:Banghead We'll be interested in finding out why the diff and trans oil doesn't equalize between the sections. May be sludge from the water plugging it or someones modification. These old machines have had a few masters and not all were as generous with maintenance as some of the guys on here. If I get my engine out of here in the next day, I'll pull the covers on mine for comparison pictures. Thanks for posting up the pictures
Heck ya d26 that seat looks good on there and you arent letting no grass grow under your feet getting her together.......Heres something i had done to mine when i first got it because of the sun beating down on me on a 80* day i put one of those big umbrellas on it to keep the sun and rain off i got a few looks out of it with it on there but i didnt care ...it worked good for that.I made it removable and after having a branch come threw it while pushing over a tree... thankfully it missed me.... i would take it off when i had to put down a tree so i could see up the tree and know what was going on...That was when i knew i wanted a rops but the umbrella is great and cheap to keep the sun from boiling you.... heres some pics heres where the branch came threw
would a older case 430 with a mechanical shuttle use 80-90 in rear also. I have no problem shifting but just curious. My shuttle trans has the same hole to the rear end. Must admit im confused is 80-90 threw out the diff, trans and shuttle? thanks diver
Diver, I've got no experience with the 430s but I'm pretty sure it's the 80/90 in all three if you have the manual shuttle. It's easy to tell what you have in there now by the smell. Hypoid gear lube has a distinct smell. Only the power shuttles need the hy-trans because it's much thinner - more like ATF. You can't pump that 90 wt. esp. when it's cold.
heck i have been putting in tractor supplys transmission fluid. I will change that out this spring to all 80-90. thanks so much Diver
Hey Grady/Diver hows that weather your way we got 63* right now i dont know if its here to stay but we have lost 98% of the white stuff....keeping my fingers crossed.....
beautiful weather today Its 66 right now and lots of snow gone. But its to early to celebrate to much. I cheated and worked on my home built trike instead of my case.. lol
Diver/Grady.......Now I could be wrong, but I was pretty sure that only the tranny and differential/rear-end gets the 80/90 weight oil. The box in front of the tranny has the Hi/Lo Range shifter on it, and the fill plug is further forward and under the fuel tank. I am pretty sure that one gets a thinner hydraulic type fluid....like Case TCH fluid, but I just used a cheap Tractor Supply type, and it is working fine. Let me know if I am wrong.
Diver im hoping were out of the worst of it but like we say its michigan and can change in the blink of a eye ......Whats up with the homemade trike my dad had his goldwing converted to a trike years ago.....Im still on 2 wheels but thinking about adding training wheels... hahahahah
diver....what year is the goldwing trike? I need to move the winter pile of junk and boxes of sweet potatotes off my 83 Wing and slide her out of the corner of the garage and hear her roar to life.
68 that was my dads goldwing trike and i think it was in the 90's
The trike is a home made from ground up. I call it the grocery fetcher . Has a 4.3 and a turbo 350 . Right now im building a leading link front fork setup for it. I had a gold wing fork set up but forks flexed a little..lol. I cant ride a two wheeler any more cause after my mini stroke i lost my balance and that do suck lol
The front box of those tractors gets HYTran or equivalent no matter whether standard shuttle. Never in Case history did they recommend 90 up front, reason being, there were options and a tractor hydraulic system was mounted on that front plate under the tank and took the hydraulic oil from the front compartment, remember Case shared that tractor with the ag line.
I get it diver my dad had his wing converted because of health but he still wanted to ride and was able to after the conversion ....... Im wondering how much longer i will be able to hold up this hog of mine.............
I lasted till 07 . lol I had a 05 soft tail. I absolutely luved it for the 2 years i owned it. My mini put me out of commission for three years and 3 years of going to the physical terrorists 3 times a week. At least now i can do things , slow as shiet lol
thanks do much for that info. you all are the greatest diver
I guess I better check mine. Thanks '68 and Melben, You would know.
I found a crack from top to bottom on the left loader arm. I cut up some 3/8" thick square tube and patched it up. (Don't make fun of my welds) haha And rattle can rebuilt my wheels.
Nice,my arms and hoe have more steel plate on them then the whole tractor has.. I spent one whole week welding and reinforcing the ol gal after i bought it.
d26 Those welds look great nothin to make fun of with those babies .......Yea they are notorious for the loaders needing welded up here and there kinda tough to find themthat havent been welded in the past.......I did my whole tractor with rattle cans and it turned out pretty good it gets a little pricey with the rattle cans but you can get into a lot of complicated places with them ......
Melben.....Thanks for the input about the fluid in the front box......HYTran or equivalent thinner oil in the front box, and the thick 80/90 weight in the back two boxes (tranny and rear end). Good point about the Case Ag Line taking hydraulic oil from this front compartment (I dont think the hydraulics would work very good on 80/90 Wt gear oil).
Xpac/Diver.....Looks like quite a few of us on the H.Equip. site like to grin and let the bugs bounce off our teeth, whether were cruisin on a Harley or an old Wing. I have seen the Wing retrotrofitted trikes for sale, and would consider one when I think my 2-wheeled skills are getting weak.......or maybe I will just cruise thru the fields on the 4 wheeler Case 580CK, and do a little damage here and there so I will sleep better at night.
Dad 2 6000......Nice work on the welding. Some primer and paint, and then only the experts would know it was there. You just upped your load capability by another 5000 lbs, more or less. My ole Greased Lightning also had some major weld repairs done many years ago: You can see the welds on the front here, and angle supports underneath. And in this pic, if you look just left of the left headlight, you can see a big chunk of steel welded to the arm, and weld beads going up, over and then to the inside of the arm, where another big chunk of steel was glued on. So, some Knucklhead must have rammed the loader bucket into something pretty hard an unmoveable, or got mad and rammed the CK into their boss's stinkin Lincoln. Not sure if the operator lost his job that day or not.
Sounds like a common repair on these old hoes. I did get with Dale and you guys are right he knows his stuff! He got me all the filters I will need.
D26, the most common crack repair is on the right side. Something to do with rolling the bucket back conflicting with the leveling cylinder. One of the guys explained it way better somewhere on here. That's the first lefty repair in that location that I've seen so its good that you found it. The repair on mine looks like bird poop and the pieces didn't really line up. They used more weld to compensate. By comparison, you welds look very good. Not everybody can do vertical up or down and have it look decent. For me, the results vary and that why I own a grinder Do you know anything of the history of your machine? I was told that lifting heavy objects with uneven load on the arms contributes to the cracks. When I lift large boulders at the hydraulic limits, I can see the twist in the loader arms which can't be good. Many years of that type of twisting will be the cause of the stuff you found. Nice work on that repair:notworthy
Ha jusk amen on the grinder been there many times myself we used to call the spotty welds hen peckin .....My biggest problem these days is just seeing what im welding and i have a cheater lens in my helmet .....I just love it when im laying a great weld and nice and straight line only to find out i was not even hitting the line and running right or left...oops wheres that grinder :dizzy:dizzy ointhead ointhead:duh
I checked the oil in my CK's shuttle today and it's definitely the 80/90. I also got the book out just to check for myself and sure enough it calls for Case TCH hydraulic oil. I have always used hypoid in manual transmissions and gear boxes and that front box was no different to me so I'm sure I never looked it up. It's common for transmissions to use different oil these days but it wasn't so common back in the 60's and 70's. I don't run any hydraulics out of my shuttle so that's not an issue and with a completely separate hydraulic system, I can't see why I ever would. It doesn't even sound like a good idea to me. I haven't had any problems in the decades I've owned mine even with the 80/90 weight oil. It has always worked fine and never given me a minute of trouble - which I can't say about the vast majority of parts. Over the years, I've rebuilt or replaced many parts such as the motor, differential, traction clutch and pressure plate, brakes, hydraulic pump and coupling, most hydraulic cylinders and lines, valve body, pins and bushings, bucket teeth, power steering cylinders and lines, radiator and hoses, starter, wiring, muffler, tires, fuel tank and shutoff, generator, fan belt, seat, several ignition switches, and paint. The shuttle and transmission are about the only original parts remaining and since they are among the most difficult to service, I'm grateful for that. It's always good to follow the manufacturer's recommendations but in ignorance, I've been running hypoid gear lube in mine for 35 years without a problem. I hope those who have been running the recommended TCH all those years have fared as well. Another plus for the manual shuttle vs. the power shuttle - they not only work well but they hold up over the long haul - even with the "wrong" oil.
Grady......Amazing......I think I will run out tomorrow and drain the hydraulic oil out and put in the thick stuff. Thats good info. to know that you have used the 80/90 in that front box for 35 yrs with no issues. Who knows, maybe its better than the thin oil. These are so tough, we could probably fill her up with olive oil and go 35 years. Boy, you have done a ton of work on your equipment over the years.
'68, Yeah, and that's just on that one rig. it's my experience that if you use it - you're gonna break it or wear it out but that's what it's for, right? You're right, it's probably more important that it has enough oil than what kind. I wouldn't drain your shuttle oil if it's clean and working good - but I'm not draining my 80/90 out either. It's clean and it's full so I'm good with it. I'd be interested to hear if anyone has had any problems with the manual shuttles or HI/LOW range. Are they the strong link in the chain or did I just get lucky with mine? Everything else either broke or wore out. I never had to do any structural welding repairs on the old girl, though. I've welded things on but not because it was cracked or broken - just adding stuff. I did snap the RH main loader ram trying to pick up too much weight when I first got it. I thought it would just grunt like the hoe if you try to take too big a bite but instead it sounded like a rifle shot when it snapped. That was a real eye opener - lucky no one was hurt. If there's a pressure relief or bypass valve - it must be clogged up. I've had to change my big quick disconnect hydraulic fittings that connect to the hoe because they were all jammed up with pieces of packings and o-rings. I've still got that broken ram around somewhere - it's got a nice bend in it. If I can find it, I'll post a picture.
Grady....yea man, it would be interesting to see that pic of the blown-up loader ram.....that "crack-bang" noise must have really been a shocker.....and like you said, good thing no one got hurt. My Hi/Lo Range seems fine, and it used to pop into neutral on hillsides, but after replacing that woodruff key inside, it seems to be holding in place much better.
A key is a cheap enough fix - but how involved was it? Did you have to split it and tear it apart or just pull the cover?
68/grady so then your shuttles on yours dont really have clutches and you have just 1 dry clutch ???? It must be your shuttles are quite a bit different than the power shuttles obviously .... With yours being like that im with grady i cant see where it would matter either way as far as oil as long as it has something what the heck these things move at a crawl anyway so as long as your not trying to build hydraulic pressure and pump the oil like mine has to they should work on either one......
xpack, Like I said, I haven't had mine apart [yet] thankfully - but from what I've seen - it's just a gear box. Maybe the clearances are such that it should have thinner oil but I never even thought about it. I really appreciate Melben's input. Without him and those like him, most of us would be lost. I'm no REAL mechanic - I just need to fix what I break - just like I'm no REAL welder. I can't afford the dealer's labor rates - I can barely afford the parts - and sometimes not. I know there isn't much in it for those like Melben but I hope he realizes how important and valuable his input is - even if it doesn't get mentioned. I, for one, don't say, "Thank You" enough but it doesn't mean I don't recognize and appreciate the expertise he shares. :drinkup
Yea no mechanic here either grady i am just keeping this old girl going the best way i know how and learning a s---ton along the way...and it is real cool that the experts share there knowledge with guys like us there help is priceless .....That is what im seeing that mechanical shuttle being like more of a gear box where mine has wet clutches and a hyd pump that has to be thinner oil to pump it to the different components.....kinda like a auto trans vs standard trans......on my kubota front end 4x4 the dealer told me i can run 80/90 or the hy trans and its just gears/bearings/bushings (basically a big gear box)
Grady...... I just pulled the cover off, and then tore onto the cover a wee bit in order to get to the woodruff key. I posted alot of pics and description and some tips about that cover in a seperate thread. If you have never taken off the Hi/Lo cover, then its well worth reading my old post and the tricks I discovered. On mine, it was impossible to remove that cover without first removing the tranny cover.....just not enough tolerance.
xpac......yep, mine is just a basic tractor type of clutch without all the bells and whistles and complexitites that you have with your shuttle. I am satisfied with it, although I need to adjust the linkage or something so that when I push the shuttle lever to "forward" that it always goes into forward instead of not quite engaging and making a clanketty sound.
'68, So the key was in the cover / linkage not down in the gear box? That makes it easier, right? I haven't had my cover off since I had the differential and bull gears replaced back when I first got mine in the early 80's. There were no computers or forums like this back then and I didn't know enough to tackle that job myself so I found a new differential at a heavy equipment junk yard but the case was cracked so I tore mine out and took both to a guy who swapped the good gears into my case and set it up. I would have liked to have done it myself but I didn't have the knowledge or experience with things like "preload" and "backlash" and like I said before - I could just barely afford the [used] parts and didn't want to screw things up and have to split it apart and do it all over again. I haven't had the cover off since - and haven't had a problem with it either. It was money well spent. I just wish I was there to watch and learn but it's like those signs at the garage that say - It costs more if you watch and even more if you want to "help". Just more proof that help like melben's, etc. is not just invaluable but hard to find - and expensive when you do find it. He should be getting a check - not just a "Thank You" from all of us. I know first hand how much that knowledge of his is worth. Sorry, D26, for sidetracking your thread.
Grady, Yep....the woodruff key is up under the top cover, so you can take off and work on a table to replace it: Here you can see the woodruff key sitting on the small air filter cover: Here is the key resting in the slot on the shaft: Also a good time to clean and spray lithium grease up in the slide action since the gear oil does not splatter up there too often. Hey, if you need a new woodruff key, I can send one to you N/C.....I went ahead and ordered a box of 100 as it was alot cheaper that way. Just send a private email with your address.
'68, So the key was just on the shifter handle? That's not too bad - better than down in the gears somewhere. You got lucky on that one. It looks like your shifter handle has been re-welded - I wonder if that's related to the failure of the key?
Grady......someone had posted in my old thread that it was kinda common that these broke off, since the handle was so long, and people would push them way too hard, probably kicking them to force them into gear. All that force back n forth probably helped degrade the key.
Yeah, If it won't go - force it! I guess that's one popular school of thought. It's a manual gear box in a tractor not a synchro sports car - you just have to get them lined up and it will go right in. Many times the operator isn't the owner or the guy paying the repair bills or turning the wrenches - or things would be done differently.
D26 hows things going on yours your probably out tearing things up by now ????? Grady your spot on with others running your rig i do my best to either run it myself and help others or not to loan it out....And even when im running it and s--- happens the first thought is whats that going to cost me not only money but also all the fun that goes into fixing it........
xpac/Grady.....Yep, I agree.....those knuckleheads who want to borrow my CK.......I immediately get a sour stomach, and hate to say no, but I know that they have no clue about the mechanics of the rig, and would break something right off the bat. Instead of paying for my repair bills, they can go rent equipment from the rental place......thats my opinion. Now, if they were knowlegable about heavy equip, then it would be a different story.
Just got my filters from Dale Still waiting to get the cylinders back from the hyd shop.
D26 Just to let you know on those leaky cylinders i had so many leaking that i bought a spanner wrench off ebay for like $50.00 and most of the seals and packings are on ebay to if you have a bunch to rebuild diy is quit a bit cheaper cost wise and besides being a mess there not that bad to rebuild if you have the tools and the time......
Xpack, I got one of those from the case dealer back in the 80's when I first got my CK - cause there wasn't any computers or ebay yet. It attaches to a 1/2" breaker bar and has a couple pins that engage those holes in the "gland"? Sound like the same thing? You can tell which cylinders got rebuilt without one of those by the pipe wrench teeth marks. I can't remember the exact price but it was way more than $50. More like twice that. How many cylinders on the hoe - 12? By the time you've rebuilt them all, it's time to start over. It's definitely worth it to do your own . Not complicated or difficult and gets you back to work sooner and much cheaper.
Dad 2Six.......Yep, I recognize the Tractor Stuff yeller business cards. I need to call Dale again and order a few small things also.
xpac.....spanner/gland wrenches......I have three sizes that a guy hand made, and are pretty heavy duty. Grady, how do these compare to the "real macoys?"
Those look like they'll work just fine. I like when you can make the tools you need. The one I got from case is hinged / adjustable and attaches to a 1/2" or 3/4" drive breaker bar. It's similar to your red and yellow wrenches but without the long handles and the jaws that hold the pins are curved and laminated with a square hole for the breaker bar. It's pretty compact. I don't have it here with me but I'll get a picture of it tomorrow. It works slick - but it should
Well I just got back from the hyd shop. the stabilizer cylinder is bad. It has a dent in the body, And the shaft is very dinged up and the piston is all messed up from trying to pass the dented body. Basically needs a full rebuild or replacement. They quoted me 600 to rebuild it. New body, Rod, piston ect. Do I have any options or do I just pay it?
D26 Talk to Dale for a good used one or check craigslist sometimes they come up there where they part them out.....
D26, The stabilizer cylinders can take a beating, so consider that if you are buying one private rather than from a dealer. One the rebuilds, I have had my swing cylinders done, tube honed, new rods, gland and piston packing for $700 each. That was when our $ was pretty much par with USD. To do a retube would be more, so that would give you an idea of costs up here. Unless its unusable, a leak won't be as serious on a stabilizer as it would on the other backhoe cylinders. You might be able to live with it until you can find a decent used cylinder.
Dad Two 6.......I also have a stabilizer that has a bit of a dent in it.....not much, but just a small dent really screws the operation of the cylinder, and its almost impossible to keep it from leaking. I was looking for used/rebuilt ones, or even just the blank outer tube. I was finding prices for a completly new one (cylinder and all the internal parts, ready to install) from $800 to $1200. I decided to wait until I finished restoring the rest of the tractor. I forgot what price Dale at Tractor Stuff came up with......but he probably has the best deal. Sounds like I better get on the horn with Dale and snag it before you do.....ha ha....just kiddin. Maybe I will just get you to dig up the ground around another tree, and surely you will find a good useable stabilizer for me.....ha ha.
I called dale he has one for me
68 heck yea man i like that red and yeller one you can probably get some good leverage with them .....Heres the one i got off ebay and it sounds like what grady has this one you can buy replacement pins for it and different diameter pins.....
I read this post a while back and for those stubborn gland nuts heres is a awesome thread about how to get them loose in case anyone needs to know.... HeavyEquipmentForums
dad two 6.....Hey, did Dale happen to say if he had more than one? Were these used and in good working order, or just used and ready for rebuild? Good price?
68 when i was at Dales im pretty sure he had a few of those I have a loader lift cylinder that some Knucklehead welded the gland nut on so i need to replace the cylinder and Dale said he had one for $300.00 which i thought to be fair...I would imagine i would have to rebuild it but even then still a good price compared to what a new one would cost.....We priced out a new cylinder for my neighbors backhoe last summer and im thinking it was about $800.00 but it may of been more which is way out of the budget we ended up finding a good used one $50.00 so needless to say he bought it real fast ........Its like with the hydraulic shops around here there prices have went up so much in the past 10 years i only take stuff to them when i have no choice...... heck i only gave $3000.00 for the whole tractor .......That makes it hard to drop $800.00 + on one cylinder....
Xpac.......Yea, I agree with you.....its hard to spend almost a grand on a stabilizer when we paid so little for our rigs......now, if we had a $50,000 machine, then maybe it would be reasonable......and if we were working it full time and bringing in income to afford it.
xpac......So, thats what the gland nut wrench is supposed to look like.....pretty nice with the replacement pins of different sizes.
Well dale just let me know his is not rebuildable after further inspection. The hunt continues.
Check with General Gear in Idaho, they have had a few 580CKs in for wrecking. The problem will be that the stabilizers are the most abused of all the cylinders, owing to their proximity to the digging. Boulders and blast rock are not their friends. If you have deeper pockets, a good hydraulic shop will be able to replace the tube and rod. You may have better luck with Ebay or Craigs List. I'll check around here and see what comes up. There are old 580CKs sitting around in that will never run again. I would consider buying one just for some of the parts.
Heres one i have got parts from when i had no choice in my opinion they dont hold a candle to Dale but they do have a big scrap yard you could try them........they are in allegan mi..... http://www.cookequip.com/default.htm
Jusk, What kind of parts are you looking for? I know you don't need a radiator.
Grady, I would like to find a good loader arm without the repairs most of them have. There aren't any wreckers close to make it worth shipping but I have a truck, camper and a trailer so a road trip to see the world is always possible... Another thing on my list is the 3 spool loader valve that was used for the 4 in 1 front bucket. Having a few spare cylinders and such would make repairs and improvements easy. To be honest, I don't any more tractors, trucks or other projects but hell, I will never finish what I have stored away now, so what's a few more?
My dad found me a used cylinder locally. We picked it up this morning. It appears to be in much better shape.
Glad to hear you got one
So my valve cover gasket has been leaking. I took it off to replace it and found this. I had no idea. It was running pretty good. What a testament to these old diesels. Check out this video on YouTube: http://youtu.be/taP9VZSuOsQ
Now that is something. Hope the cam is ok
wow.......... let us know what you find .........
I took off the rocker shafts cleaned them all up reinstalled and adjusted the valves. It runs awesome. With a lot less smoke out the exhaust. I'm thinking excessive valve lash caused it to come off the rocker arm. And the pushrod got wedged. A couple others had lots of play and weren't far off from this happening to them. Running on all 4 cylinders now. http://youtu.be/dbT9CGZoIXw
I also got to use it for the first time on a actual project. 12 tons of rocks for a RV pad. This is at a house I'm flipping View attachment 152975 View attachment 152976
That looks better!
At least it wasnt none to serious looking good d26
Dad22ssixx......Holy Cow Batman!!!!!! Man, those valves were a bit on the loose side......a real loosey goosey fer sure. Good to see you got them adjusted and purrring like a kitten now.
D26, Looks good. 12 tons is a sheet load with a hand rake but it's nothin to that tractor, is it? - esp. running on all 4. Did you use the float feature on the front bucket?
Not sure what that is?
d26 .......Grady is talking about the float for the bucket .........if you push the loader lever all the way forward like your letting the bucket down it will feel like you cant push it forward anymore KEEP PUSHING it should keep going and you should feel it detent and stayall the way forward which will allow the bucket to float with the contour of the ground .......Give it a try and let us know...........
D26, When you have an area to flatten out, after you get it rough graded you can smooth it out by back dragging with the front bucket in the float position - push all the way forward until it locks. First, you have to tilt the bucket to the position you want it to lock in. I try to get it flat - more or less. The down pressure helps to pack it down a little, too. You have to pull back on the handle to return to normal operation. I plow snow and scrape the leaves and pine needles off my dirt road with the bucket floating and going forward but reverse works the best for smoothing - for me anyway.
Wow good to know I will have to try that out thanks!
I finally got around to changing my power steering filter. The fluid was very milky white.
dt6 Mine wasnt milky like yours but i think i got you beat check mine out.......... Another tip is if you ever have to change your power steering hoses they are super expensive so i ended up where the lines hook to the valve ..........I cut the long steel portion off the rubber lines and the hyd shop had a fitting they crimped on the end that took a compression fitting (ferrel type) and used to old portion of steel lines where i had to........
xpack, That's some nasty looking stuff. What were you running in there? Looks like tar sands crude oil. Did the steering really work before you changed it? The milky white is from condensation or water but I don't know how it gets that black. Bet it works better now.
Holy cow, I don't think I would have even been able to detect that miss by listening ... I'm going to have to pull my valve cover and look! Thanks for posting.
Ha yea Grady it was the oil that was in it when i bought it ..........It wasnt thick just real black probably original to 1970...............Its all good now though..........
Hey, I watched the video with the rocker arm off the pushrod, and it brought up the one with the homemade welder on the FJ. How about start a thread about it, or stick a few posts in here. Thanks, Mitch
I will find my build thread on my FJ40 and post it up for ya.
Hey guys what fluid and how much in the transmission? Up by the bell housing area. I just drained it all out of here I know I fill it up here but there is no dipstick I can see. So how much do I put in???
Wowzerzs! Yeah you beat me for sure xpack
The power shuttle fill is ahead of the 4 spd trans shifter. Originally, it called for Case TCH but now it will be Hytran Ultra, not cheap but the best choice. I'm no where near my manuals but I recall it being about 17 qts. Xpack or 68case may have pics for you of the filler. The whole torque tube is filled from that location as its all connected right up to the flywheel. The hole by the regulator is not an oil fill. That is where you would check the timing marks on the flywheel.
d26 ...........Thats not trans oil you drained my friend it is shuttle oil ........the trans oil is a shared compartment with the rear end oil and it is a 80-90wt oil in there ...........the shuttle is the hy trans oil like jusk said and the best stuff to get for it is the case brand tch they do act a little better with the case oil rather than the tsc stuff......... In this pic is the dipsticks for the shuttle compartment its the one in front of the shifter and the one behind the shifter is for the rearend and trans......they are about a 1 1/8 socket to remove them and theres a dipstick attached to them ........... Under the tractor is 3 drain plugs the one you removed which is all the way forward under the bellhousing then there should be one about half way back these 2 are for the shuttle compartment i drain both when i change shuttle oil............then there should be one back further for the trans/rearend oil (80-90)........... Im pretty sure jusk is also right about the 17 qts for the shuttle and im thinking about the same for the rearend/trans oil .....seems like 1 -5 gallon bucket of each does the job with a little left over........... dont forget there is a shuttle oil filter in front of the radiator you should change while your changing the shuttle oil.......... If you need anything else just let us know..........
Thanks xpack Yes I'm still learning about this old tractor. I keep using automotive terms. Anyway. When I filled up the shuttle oil to full on the dipstick (one just in front of the shifter) I can remove the front most drain plug and nothing comes out. ?? Do j need to start it to get the fluid circulating or something?
d26 ..........Yea i think you need to run it some to get oil in that part of the compartment if you were to remove that middle drain plug you should get oil out of it .........I have heard that some of these ck's and the b's have a drain plug to be able to drain the torque converter itself which is the same oil as the shuttle oil .........On my ck the torque converter has a allen plug so i can drain mine and the way i access the plug is to remove the front drain plug that you removed under the bell housing then you can look up in there with a flashlight and have someone rotate the engine while you are looking in that hole for the little allen plug in the torque converter .........its a pita with the shuttle oil dripping in your face but doable..........Just as a note i did this with my neighbors 580b and his torque converter and his doesnt have a plug like mine does im not sure why some of them have them and some dont........ If you already added oil i wouldnt worry about trying to drain the torque converter this time but the next time you do this i would look to see if you even have a plug in the torque converter and if so drain it to........... fire it up and move it around and recheck your oil level top it off if need be and call it good.......... How did your filter look ??????????
Thanks so much for your knowledge xpack the shuttle filter looked normal. No issues
Hey Mitch here is the link to my FJ build thread. Not sure exactly where the onboard welder I made info is exactly. http://forum.ih8mud.com/threads/my-...-what-happens-work-in-progress-thread.663492/
Has anyone made a boom lock for their 580ck? Besides the chains
For that matter, does anyone have a diagram or picture (or explanation) of how/where the chains should be fastened to immobilize the hoe? I'll need to drive mine 10 miles or so on the road to get it on site and I want to make sure the backhoe can't swing. Thanks!
Does't the CK have a hole you can drop a pin in to keep it from swinging or is that just the older models.
The Operators manual has a couple of pictures of the chains that are attached to each side of the stabilzers aabout half way down and hook into a strap welded to the boom. The chains are stored hooked to the loops welded on each side of the backhoe main frame above the stabilzers. No Pins or other such stuff on the model 33 backhoe. On mine, after having the swing cylinders rebuilt, there is no movement on road travel. The chains are long gone. On the other hand, it will leak down if I leave it overnight in the up position. For safety, the loader and hoe really should always be set down when left unattended to avoid unintended consequences.
Thanks, fellas.
If you still have the original loops welded above the tops of the stabilizers and the metal grab under the boom, there were 2 chains with bent metal hooks that came with the machine. I use a single chain from one loop through the piece on the boom - although you don't even need that piece if it's missing - and then over to a grab hook that I welded in place of the other loop. If you still have both loops, you just run the chain through the second loop and hook it back to itself when you have the boom up. Leave a little slack when you hook the chain and it will tighten as it settles and leave room to undo it by raising the boom when the time comes. If you chain it up tight, you may have trouble getting it undone.
Thanks, Grady.
Hey guys this may be a dumb question but on the front wheels do they have tubes in them?
Often tubes are put in the front tires so you don't break a bead and loose the air.
dad266......Yep, its a good idea to use tubes. I just put 4 new tires on my 580CK and the tire people convinced me that the rear tires did not need tubes, so I just had tubes put in the front ones. Well, the front tires hold air perfectly, but both rear tires are leaking real bad. Dont listen to those dumbazz tire people when they tell you that tubes are not needed.
'68, I need rear tires on my CK. What did you go with and do you like them? Did you have to do any work to the wheels? My valve holes are rusty - I know, sounds like a personal problem.
Over the years I've tried a no. of brands of tires some Hoes came with 8 or 10 ply but I have always bought 12 ply.If the rims are properly prepared you'll have no bead leaks. I DO NOT recommend Samson tires one of the cheaper brands that stand up just as good as the good year I have on the machine now are Titans.
Grady.......Yep, my rear wheels were rusted out around the valve stem hole on each side, and I had to do some "creative" repairs. After patching the rusted valve stem areas with fiberglass and bondo repair gunk, I sanded everything down/wire brushed it and used a oil primer on the rims. I drilled new holes for the new tube valve stems, but learned that you have to be pretty darn precise where you make the new holes, or there will not be room to get the rim of the new valve stem seated on the rim.........I got a call from the tire place, and had to go get the rims and grind off a wee-bit so that the valve would seat and not bind against the curved part of the rim. Only bad thing is that they convinced me that I did not need tubes in the rear tires, and that they would never leak......but both tires are leaking and I have to keep blocks under the tractor so the tires dont go pancake flat. Here is what the patch work looked like where the valve stem area had rusted out: With rustoleum primer on the rims, and you can see the valve stem hole drilled out: Here you can see where I had to grind off some metal on the rim surface so the valve stem would have room to seat: I went with regular tractor tires instead of the original type that had the flat portion of tread to make riding on roads smoother. The manual said that I could have gone with a taller tire (so the backhoe base would be a bit higher off the ground), but I decided to go with the same size......glad I did, as I later discovered that the taller tires would not have fit. These new tires really bite into the ground when I travel over the fields.....a good and bad thing.
Tires primed and painted: This pic shows the standard tractor tread:
Nice job on those rims. I'm looking at the same rust scenario with at least one of mine. Good idea to relocate the valve holes - now she's good for another 50 years.
Grady......thanks. And if the tire people try to convince you not to buy tubes, I would not listen to them.
Hey guys not that i would try this on one of the big tires like these but hey for a old piece of crap riding mower or whatever check this out https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PUhZAUUrSkg Grady i think mine are 14.9 x 24 on the rears and they do alright i got both for $400.00 used/ like new off craigslist ....My rims werent as bad as 68's but i wire wheeled them and painted the crap out of them then tried tubeless and ended up buying tubes for them now all is good .....Like 68 i wish i would of tubed them the first time.... By the way heres some pics of marie digging the trench for the water line for the new shop this was the first real workout since the rebuild and shes doing great ..... Here is where the trench was dug from the house to the barn it got dark and i didnt get any pics of this when it was open but here it is covered up.....its about 200ft long
Xpack, its nice to see Marie earning her keep around your place. At least you have dirt to dig, as at my island place, we would have had to use a case of 'boom' to get that ditch. What would we do without these old girls to keep us busy? All your work is coming back and paying big dividends in having a reliable backhoe when you want one. Between your Marie and 68Case' Greased Lightening, I have lots of inspiration to get my old girl back together and running. I miss her already....
Grady.....Yep, Xpac said 14.9 x 24......thats the size I used. Xpac.....great work on the trenching, and you just saved enough $ to pay for the Voodoo Queen in full. That kid pumping foam insulation into the tire.....well, if it works its something to consider down the road. Im wondering if he could have unscrewed the valve stem inner core, and then sprayed the foam in there instead of drilling the hole in the tire......but for what he was using it for, it will probably last for years. Jusk......your restoration will soon be behind you, and you can then start ordering the dynamite to give the old girl some gravel/rocks to pick up.
Well we finally got all moved in to the new house. Now I have 3.5 acres of mountain property to work. Lots of rock retaining walls to build. I got my thumb welded on. And have been moving boulders around. It's very handy! And the kids love the old Case too
D26. Nice, its great to see the family having fun with you and your machine. Enjoy it because they grow up all too fast... The thumb will make moving rock a lot easier. It on my list of things I have to finish on mine. Have fun on your new place. If you have sidehills, take care until you are familiar with how far you can go before trouble.
Those mountains in the background would be an accident waiting to happen with my "Greased Lightning". Dont think dropping the backhoe and front bucket would be enough braking power. Ha ha.
Amen to what 68 says even with the voodoo queens spells and magic i would have to know the brakes are good before operating around them hills .........D26 glad to see you are using her they are great machines to have around for a lot of different stuff......
I made a few roads on my hillside and don't have any scary parts to traverse. Tonight I moved 10 tons of boulders. (I did not drive it with the bucket this high)
Thars Gold in them-thar hills!!!!
Hey guys, last night I was having a issue with the backhoe bucket hydraulics not holding pressure. I can pick up a rock but then the bucket "relaxes" or bleeds off some pressure and the rock will fall out of the jaws. It was getting dark so I did not do a ton of investigation but I know I have a hyd leak at the back at the control valve area. I'm assuming that's my issue. But it's hard to tell which fitting is the one for the backhoe bucket. Anyone know which one it is? And is there something to replace if it's not a hose leak?
D26, there are a couple of possibilities for your loss of clamping pressure. The bucket spool in the backhoe valve is one, and a little more complicated that the bucket cylinder packing bypassing. The fix for that is new packing on the cylinder piston. Obvious leaks should be ruled out first. I'm not experienced enough with the hydraulic valve to offer advice but somewhere on the forum, there was a thread that covered doing the o rings without braking down the whole thing, which I don't think you want to do. I did change all the o rings on the hoses and solved some leaks from those areas. A good hydraulics shop can supply them if you find that is where the leak is from. Others will offer some more useful advice on the valve repair.
Thanks Juskatla well you did teach me something. So there are o rings in the hoses? And the bucket cylinder is not leaking. Externally anyway. Just around the control valve area
D26, Check the valve and where the hoses are connected, You will find that there will a connector that the hose threads onto and the adapter has an o ring where it threads into the valve body. If you look at the parts breakdown for the valve, it shows the o rings and the connector. When you look at the valve body, you will see the sections have adapters for the hose. O rings go on the adapter to valve body connections. Hoses thread on with JIC connection (I think...) Keep in mind that there O rings are hydraulic type, not hardware store. You will need to see where the leak is coming from and it may not be the hose connection. One of mine leaks from the spool, out the top of the valve. Another project... I did all the hose adapter o rings on mine and solved some minor leaks. The old rings were hard as rock. One adapter was damaged and leaked at the hose side connection. I only mentioned the cylinder packings because they could bypass internally if worn. By your description of the leak at the valve, its likely worn.
dADtwo66......Here is a pic when I was installing the backhoe onto the tractor. It seems easy to have one of the hoses get loose and begin to leak fluid around the threads. So you probably will want to squeeze under or behind the seat and see if you can find any loose hose ends.
It certainly sounds like an internal cylinder leak the pump will generally compensate for any small line leak. I've had one cylinder leak down very slow when the cap at the bottom of a spool valve was loose.
D26 ..........to me it also sounds like you are leaking internally in that cylinder or it is possible that the piston nut in that cylinder has come loose allowing oil to bypass the piston i think i would eliminate the packing's that jusk mentioned and nut first .........I havent done this one myself but i read where if you start up the machine and you get the hyd oil up to temp and cycle that cylinder and hold the valve that if the piston is leaking internally past the piston the outside of that cylinder will get a lot hotter than one thats not leaking inside....What the heck its worth a shot..... Mine had a ton of leaks on the valves when i got it and a lot of drifting going on but after rebuilding the cylinders the drifting stopped then i fixed the valves that were leaking...
Thanks for the info guys. I ordered a rebuild kit for the bucket cylinder. I'm going to try and rebuild it myself.
d26 you might consider buying one of these gland nut wrenches this is the size i bought when i started repairing the cylinder on my ck and it has paid for itself heres the link http://www.ebay.com/itm/8605-ADJUST...GHlaZm7gI9mHxOj4EFQ&item=201223425918&vxp=mtr these arent that bad to rebuild yourself with the right tools the biggest thing is the mess (oil) but i like to leave the bore right on the tractor then pull the pin for the ram end only then look for a little screw that is screwed into the gland nut and the bore (usually a flathead) remove it if it has one some cylinders dont have this screw.......Then remove the gland nut and pull the ram and piston out of the bore and sometimes these pull hard i usually put a old piece of round stock in the pin hole and just drive it out with a hammer but i have heard of others needing to pull them out with tractors or ratchet straps.......... Then you can take the ram and piston to the bench and its pretty much self explanatory from there just pay attention to how many packings you have on the piston and how they are facing when you remove them ...........The bolt or nut that holds the piston can sometimes be stubborn but i have always got them loose with the ram head locked in a big vise and a 3/4" breaker bar and a cheater pipe if the 1/2" drive impact dont get them loose ..........for the internal seals in the gland nut they are in the nut pretty tight you have to pry them out with a screwdriver and when you put the new ones back in you might think they wont fit as they are a pita but they go in with some bending and twisting but you want to make sure you have this seal facing the right direction before cramming it in there as you might tear it up if you have to remove it if you put it in wrong....... good luck and if you need anything just give a shout
Great in for xpac! Thank you so much!!
This is a stabilizer cylinder but the pics. may help.
Sorry their not in order I don't know how to make that happen.
Thanks for taking the time to post up all the pics Billrog!!
..........well there's your problem. Good call guys.
d26 ......Yea that will do it.......you want to look at the cylinder and make sure it isnt dented in ....sometimes these get hit with a big rock or bumping stuff like trees and it dents the bore also look for scratches on the piston and in the bore but the piston looks good in the pics and i have put them back together with scratches and sometimes i wonder how they seal but they do.........
Dad, Does your rig have quick disconnects on the main hydraulic lines to and from the hoe? Most do and if so, you may want to crack them and have a look. They are great collectors of those small packing pieces that don't make it to the filter but do restrict the flow at the small passages in those connections.
I think mine does. I will have to check them.
I was surprised how clogged up mine were when I pulled them apart to change a hose that burst. I think the increased pressure from the clog contributed to the burst hose. You don't want the hot oil treatment from a hose that close to you - or any hose for that matter but one that close is dangerous. Hoses and connectors are expensive but….. I'd at least check those connectors. I've blown lots of hoses over the years and that oil has some range [and volume]when one lets go.
I got the bucket cylinder all rebuilt. And it WORKS great! Holds pressure does not bleed off like it used to. It was pretty straight forward and easy to rebuild. I think i will do a few more
Good for you! Its great to get something done with good result. The rest will be as easy now that you know the basics and have gained some valuable experience.
Great happy your in business and there'll be no anxiety attached next time. Always feel better when toughs jobs are behind me.
D26, Now that you have that boom cylinder all rebuilt, consider supporting it when it's not in use. Later models all came with some way to stabilize the boom but the old CKs only had chains. Anything is better than nothing.
I have been thinking of ideas for a boom lock. It's on my list for sure.
The chains work ok for transport and for sitting when not in use, the answer is to rest the loader and backhoe bucket on the ground for safety. Once its shut off, a quick back and forth will equalize the hydraulic pressure and relieve the stress on the cylinders. Anyone getting at the machine won't be be in danger of having it move of dropping the working parts on someone else or themselves.
I'm still having the fluid migration issue. Filling up the differential
D26, I'm going to suggest that its the seals leaking between the torque tube and transmission. In order to replace them, you have to split the tractor there. I already have the seals for that part of my project and the replacement gaskets. When I ordered the other stuff from Dale, I had him send me all the seals for the transmission and rear end which I will replace as I get to them. Xpack has already done the seals between the tow sections and posted pictures of them. I will get to them in a couple of weeks and will document the process and whatever stands I build to support the sections. I have a good shop floor and a commercial jack, so may just use the jack for the rear end and roll it all back. If its not too serious a transfer, you could just wait until you have the parts, time and setup to do it safely. Mine has leaked for years and I am only getting to it now.
d26.........did you get the chance to eliminate the plug thats between the trans/shuttle mentioned on page 1 of this thread.....if not you might want to pull the cover with the shift lever and take a look at it ....if thats good it almost has to be the seals jusk talked about......
jusk ........Thats how i put my rearend to the torque tube except i used my 3 ton h/f floor jack under the tranny then one guy on each rear tire to roll the whole tranny/rearend to the torque tube and it went really good ....
Xpack, I was kinda copying your method to get it apart and back together again. I will have the front on stands and the front wheels so it will stay put. I'm hoping to get started in a week or so, if the weather lets me get some painting done first. For D26, its something that will need to be done but could wait as long as you watch your levels in each half. I am anxious to get mine done before I refill the torque tube with Hytran Ultra and the rear end with gear oil. I don't know if they mix or just go to the rear end but it can and will get fixed....
I will just keep adding fluid for now. Once I got my hoe bucket cylinder rebuilt I was able to grab rocks and move them with the dipper and swing cylinders. But the boom could not pick them up. It would start to very slowly then stop. I'm assuming the boom cylinder needs to be rebuilt as well. I took it apart and found this pin sticking out of the bolt what's it for? And It's bent a little. The packing was not as bad as the bucket cylinder. But still look worn. What do you guys think?
D26, That's a pressure release valve. I think that tube is hollow and has a spring and ball inside. I wouldn't hesitate to change those seals and packings. You've got it apart.
d26.....heres a link kinda explaining it https://axleaddict.com/auto-repair/...-How-to-Rebuild-or-Repair-Hydraulic-Cylinders Heck i didnt know what it was until reading Gradys post ......learn new stuff all the time ........... im with Grady replace them while its apart and it looks like in your first pic that the end of the piston has a hole in it or is it just the pic........ I think it was Grady who said it a while back after you get all the cylinders rebuilt you can almost start over again rebuilding them ........especially the outriggers they get a lot of dirt mud around them i try shake the dirt off them before fully retracting them to keep it at a minimum............
Thanks for the link! Yeah I ordered the kit to rebuild it while it is apart. There is a indentation on the tip of the rod but it is not hollow.
Ya that does sound personal. lol
D26, What's inside the cylinder where that rod would hit?
Good question. I will have to look and see. I wil get a pic if I can.
Here is the inside of the boom cylinder.
Try pushing on it. Does it have some give like it's spring loaded?
Yes when I took it apart it has about a 8" spring behind it. I hammered it pretty straight. I think it will work just fine.
Restrictor Pin / Pin, Cushioning I've been trying to post a picture from the Sevice Manual that shows the boom cylinder with the restrictor pin in a sectioned view. It looks like its intended to cushion the end of the retracted stroke of the piston by having the pin go into the hydraulic fluid port in the end of the cylinder. As the pin closes the outflow of oil, the remaining oil cushions the last of the stroke until the spring is completely collapsed before the piston bottoms out. If the pin is hollow, it would allow a gradual flow of the remaining oil, creating a soft stop. In the Case Parts manual, its called restrictor pin and pin, cushioning in a couple of variation of the boom cylinder. The swing cylinders have the pin as well. A picture is worth a thousand words and I'll try to rescan and post. It wouldn't accept the file type, so its something I'm doing wrong. The diagram makes the explanation understandable
I got the cylinder all put back together. Works well. Been busy moving 3' boulders all day. I also put on some new front tires the other day. My old ones where bald truck tires.
She looks like a 4WD with those new front tires. Looks like you could use some 4WD with that project.
I know. I wish I had 4WD. Just making due with this old beast.
Well I found the breaking point for the front axle.
Ouch, That boulder must be heavy. I move rock that I can't lift by dragging the bucket, but nothing that large. You could also have broken the loader lift frame which is common on these old girls. The axle can be fixed. On my 580CK, I replaced the axle ends with aftermarket weld on pieces and transferred the spindles with new bearings. Mine came from Draper Tractor in Spokane but others carry this repair part too. You may get lucky and be able to have a welding shop fix that up for you. You will need to remove the spindle and bearing bits. Pay attention to the shims as you will need to get it back to approximately the same play or the bearing will be toast in no time. Good luck on getting going again without too much trouble.
wow, never thought id see one break there, I had spindle break on a ol international 340 utility before
Dad26......Holy Kow Batman! Greased Lightnin is here looking over my shoulder at the computer screen pic of your wounded soldier CK, and she is wimpering and feeling the pain. G. Lightnin then looked down at me and asked , "You aint gonna be askin me to werk like that, are you?" I told her, "Naawww, cause if I did, there is this Marie Louvouee up in Michigan which will fly down and put a lickin on me and leave me with a curse that will take years for me to recover from........so, No Worries Mate". G. Lightnin belched some foul diesel smoke, one big sigh of relief. I wonder how heavy that boulder was? Maybe 5000 lbs? Plus it probably was not centered, making matters worse. What is the max. load rating on these old rigs?
Hahaha. Not sure how heavy it was. But damn heavy indeed. And no it was not centered. It was a chore just getting it in the bucket. Once I did it was all the way to the right side of the bucket. The left rear tire was coming off the ground so I had to swing the hoe over to that side to put it back on the ground. I have moved 6 boulders of almost this size from my front yard to the backyard. This one made it about halfway.
Diver, probably too much traction from those new front tires. If he had left the old bald ones on there it would have moved that rock easily. ; ) I am surprised that it broke there, though. It could have been a lot worse. D26, I'd find a prominent place for a rock that valuable. I've got a couple at my place that cost me a bunch to move.
D26, The Operators manual says that the breakout force is 6,800lbs and the lift capacity to full height is 3,800lbs. A yard of gravel weighs about 3,200lbs so I would say that your boulder was likely in the 4-5000lb range. Centered, you could chain it onto the lip of the bucket and drag it around but that much weight is hard on anything. When I have blast rock to move, I hire it out and the local excavator makes short work of it. Get the axle off and have a competent welder reattach the piece that broke off. You will have some work to get the spindle off and once repaired, to get it back on. Hopefully, you didn't bend your steering cylinder as they are harder to come by.
D26 ...........Good thing you werent doing this with one of these new plastic kubotas or you would be looking for super glue to put it back together ...........I had a big one i moved with ole Marie and was impressed she could move it but not as big as that one ...........Looks like a clean break if so i would just put her back together and weld the crap out of it drink a beer and be glad you have one of the old ones that you can weld ...........
Prepping for surgery.
D26...........Just wanna throw this out there so hopefully it helps some avoid this problem.........A neighbor of mine was digging sand out of a bank with his 580b and the front tires were sinking in the sand with a load in the bucket (narrow front tires) and it was downhill so when he was backing up the rear tires didnt have enough weight on them and they would loose traction and it was jumping up and down regaining traction now and then..............needless to say but it tore out the ring and pinion gears ..........so when you feel the rearend lifting you might want to rethink things to avoid this since helping him change them gears i try to avoid this now ............If you move them this big you might grab a rock with that backhoe to help keep weight to the rear and keep those tires on the ground.... I know it sucks to have breakdowns but at least you can fix this one............You will have her back up and running in no time.....
Xpack, When I was a lot younger, a guy who knew a lot more than me felt obliged to remind me that an old 580CK is not a bulldozer and that the rear end is the weak link. I guess D26 might argue and say the front end but I think that was just his warning shot. That front end will fix a lot cheaper and easier than the rear end will. Now, my approach is if the hoe won't move the big ones, I call on a bigger machine. It isn't worth killing the ole girl to move a rock or three. She'll move hundreds of rocks a little smaller but only one if it's too big. D26, unless I'm mistaken, the king pin tube is cast [steel?] and the front axle frame isn't. Do you need to preheat the cast before welding it to the frame?
Grady ....Some of the stumps i dig up are huge and heavy so rather than try to get these big boys in the bucket to move them i just roll them to move them so i dont tear up the tractor ......I definitely have made my share of mistakes with tractors over the years and kick myself in the A-- when i realize it could of been avoided .....I almost think its just human nature to push these tractors to their limit before backing off and thinking about what can and will break..I try to think things out more now than i used to when im operating them these days but i still have a brain far- now and then and it usually cost when i do.........
xpack, I agree. When you're in the seat, you're usually trying to get something done and the consequences of what could happen to the machine aren't always first in your head. With me it usually depends how long it's been since the last time I did something that cost me plenty. Even without pushing it too hard, I've found out that if you use it - you'll break something sooner or later and it's usually sooner on these old ones but just about everything can be fixed. It's just usually more fun working with it than on it.
I fixed the front axle a while back and have move a lot of earth since. I bent the crap out of the draglink. Bent that back straight with my press. And have been putting in some long hours in the seat working on the rock wall. I moved two dump truck loads full yesterday. 26 tons of boulders until my manual thumb had enough. Time to build a stronger one.
D26, That's some job you and your CK have taken on. The one thing about these old machines is they are simple to repair and parts are still plentiful. I don't do heavy rock work with mine anymore and hire the local guy with a JD excavator. I had lot of fun moving blast rock, but I couldn't swing and stack like a good excavator operator can. You are lucky to have a lot of open area to work and the ability to fix whatever breaks. Thanks for the pics...
I also wanted my kids to experience operating the hoe. Here is my 11 year old daughter running it. https://youtu.be/LfMc0NuNH4E
Does the park brake work?
What park brake?
Dad2Six.......Amazing......You break them, and you fix them. And the 580CK is like the old Timex Watch..... It takes a Lickin, And keeps on Tickin. I think that Dial (Dale) of Tractor Stuff needs to open a branch office up near your homesite. You could save a ton in shipping costs on new parts. Ha ha. Your daughter is doing great at working those backhoe levers, with or without the parking brake.
Thank you, all my kids got some seat time and loved it. I'm glad it's a tough old bird. I make her work hard.
Made a new link for the thumb. 1/4" wall DOM tube for the ends and 1/4" wall square tube center. Should hold up much better. It must weigh at least 3 times what the old one did.
https://youtu.be/P7N7GNJ3opA Here is a little video for ya Working on the wall this morning. I'm operation Lafonda with only one hand while holding my phone so it's a little more jumpy than normal. And yes my wife has named her Lafonda.
Amazing work! Super heavy duty! Shoot, the maker of that attachment should be contracting to you to make a few hundred of those suckers.
DadTwo6......I watched the video.......Great rock placement. Since you were holding the camera, I imagine that LaFonda was operating solo, on cruise-control. I was waiting for the 5:00 whistle to blow, and then a change in the camera angle and then you see Fred Flintstone saying "Yadda Dabbba Dooooooo!" and he goes sliding off the dinasaur rock digger surf-board style, and hops into his Flint-mobile to go have dinner with Betty (or was it the other one.....yea, Wilmer). Ha haaaaa. :slomo
Thank you sir! I appreciate your kind words.
Hey D26 you do some real good work repairing the old girl thats for sure ......LaFonda will serve you well and looks like she has already worked her way into the family nicely.... kids on a tractor and dad watching i did the same thing with mine ((((((((((( PRICELESS)))))))))) what else can you say
I have been wanting something to hold a few small items on the hoe. I.e. tools, rags, extra operator fluid. Thought about tool boxes but wanted it to be waterproof. Ended up with this weather proof ammo box. I got two magnets from harborfreight and attached them to the bottom. Worked out good. I also made a cup holder.
D26------------Great ideas ya got there i had a cup holder on mine before the rebuild in the same spot as yours but i just used one of those foam insulated kind and use silicone to glueit down it worked good kept the stuff cold.........
Very nice great idea not many places on a hoe to put anything.
Well after building a 5' tall rock wall almost 200' long that I don't get to enjoy looking at. It's nice to start on one I can. Also not a bad view to work from.
Hey Dad...Where are you at in Utah? I'm in Cedar City (Three Peaks)... BTW, NICE work.
Thanks, I'm in North Ogden
dad26er......mann, you must work 24 hrs a day to get all that done, plus do all that repair work, and be creative in mounting those gadgets to the 580CK.....impressive. Nice rock walls your putting up.:notworthy
Ha thanks. and work 45 hrs a week at "work"
Been working lafonda hard the last several days. Dug out and built a rock wall. This one is curved and tapered. Stands about 9' high in the center. This will be the backdrop for my fire pit
Little House on the Prairie, Old CK on the Prairie busting down the mountains.
Well After a LONG hard summer of work Lafonda has said enough is enough. She had been loosing coolant for a bit and now its very clear that it is blowing out the exhaust. She still ran good and strong until yesterday. I tried to do a little work with her and she could barley get out of her own way at full throttle. With lots of smoke and water coming out the exhaust. Covering us in black speckles. I'm assuming a blown head gasket is the cause? Any other common issues with these old motors I should be aware of? I'm going to limp her into the garage and tear her apart soon.
D26, The 188D is a pretty solid engine but like anything, age and wear takes its toll. Leaking liners, head gasket, cracked block between cylinders are not uncommon. I had water in the oil on mine and we decided it was a head gasket but because of its age, decided to go the whole 9 yard for a complete rebuild. Once you get into it, the problem will become obvious. I'm no expert, but its sounds like a blown head gasket but other things could be not far behind. Good luck on the diagnosis and repair.
From my experience I did the head & head gasket on one and while I was at it should have done the O rings in the liners because a few months one let go.
I pulled the head off and no smoking gun. Head Gasket looks normal I cant see a crack in the head but I will take it to the machine shop and have t checked out. I was able to get 3 of the 4 injectors out. But the last one will not budge. I feel like if I try and twist it anymore it will break off in the head. That's how stuck it is. Any tips one getting a stuck injector out?
If the head checks out, it could be liners leaking, Over the years, the o rings harden and the area they seatin the block may corrode. When I did mine, I pulled the block and had it magnafluxed before going all new. For your injector, the shop can remove it for you. I had one stuck and because they were all being replaced, I cut off the tube from one that was out and used it to press out the stuck one from the piston side. I'm not recommending that method, but it worked for me. For a complete engine rebuild, I spent about $4k in machine shop and parts. You should be able to do liners and pistons for a much less if everything else is good. Let us know how you make out...
Wow, Jusk, 4K just in the motor - not counting your labor to put it together. That's a considerable sum to sink into an old clam. I love my old CK too, maybe just not quite that much. I'll have to do the motor in mine someday. I hope I can get out of it for less. Have you fired her up yet? D26, I'm glad you're gonna try and save the old girl. It's done a hell of a job for you already so you know you have a good machine. Best of luck.
Grady, I am a couple of days away from firing it up, but have had other things come up that keep me away from the tractor. After looking around for older simple backhoes to replace this one, I decided that I had a better starting place than what I could buy for over $10K. Since I've owned this tractor for 25 yrs and got it from a friend who had it for 15, I know its short comings and what it is capable of doing. The parts costs were not too bad, and the machine shop is one of the best, so I felt it was worth the expense. I already have a fellow who wants to buy it when I want to sell... Given that I will have brought it back to close to new condition, for about $7k, I'm happy. We'll see once its running and I get to the loader and next spring, the backhoe inspection and paintjob. D26, As long as the block is good, you can fix the rest. Consider pulling the pan and seeing if you can see the tracks the leaks make at the bottom of the sleeves. If you use anti freeze and it got into the oil, you may want to take it apart and check the bearings. Not difficult but the parts add up. I sourced a full overhaul parts kit for $1200 CDN, and US will be cheaper. Keep at it, the tractor will do some work for you to repay the repairs.
Well I started working on the hoe again. I made a cylinder sleeve puller Started pulling the cylinders out. Someone before me had put the wrong size liners in cyl 1 and 4! There is two different cyl liner diameters 4.457 and 4.537 my block takes the larger. Not exactly sure what issues that would cause. Question for you guys. I see two o-rings on the lower section of the liner But nothing at the top. What seals the top of the liner to the block?
Others may explain it better, but the lip on the top of the sleeve sits in the recess machined into the block. The head gasket seals the top of the sleeve. The manual should show how it goes together.
Ok that makes sense. I have ordered a manual just waiting for it to arrive.
I took the head to the machine shop the other day. They called and said it has a bent valve, broken valve spring, worn guides, and needs surfacing. I noticed the broken spring when I pulled it apart. And it was on cyl 1. That's also the cylinder that had the pushrod come off the rocker arm when I first got it. One more thing with that cylinder I noticed that the pushrods for cyl 1 are slightly different than the others. They are longer by 1/8" or so and have a machined ball on the end rather than a die formed (not sure if that's the correct term) end like the others. Anyone know what it should have in there?
Dad2six....I really dont know, but maybe someone installed the wrong pushrods in the past.
Hey guys I spent hours cleaning the block in preparation for reassembly today. The crank was in very good shape and still the std size. I got all the main bearings changed out and installed the new cylinder liners. Question for you all. Reading the manual it talks about fire rings and a separate head gasket. My rebuild kit did not come with fire rings but I'm assuming they have incorporated them into the head gasket. There is a metal ring in the gasket around each cylinder. Is this the case?
D26, You will be fine with the one piece head gasket. I'm not even sure if the other style with the separate fire rings is available anymore. The two types were in production years ago but I have never seen any gasket kits with the separate fire ring.
Ok good thanks Juskatla. Your always very helpful I appreciate it.
This being my first diesel I did not even think to put any treatment in the tank over the winter. It has been parked In My garage through the winter. Should I be concerned with the fuel gelling?
@dad2six It is very important to check liner protrusion above the block, hope you did this? Other wise you may have head gasket issues before too long....
I would say your fuel will be just fine unless it's 5 or 10 below F.
I did check that very closely and it measured out .002-.003 around all liners.
I got new injectors but they did not come with the brass nut on top. This may be a dump question but how do I get the brass not off the old injectors and onto the new ones? Do I have to take apart the injectors?
Check to see the rubber O ring under the nut. If you can pull it out of the nut, you can pull the rubber ring off and pull off the nut to reuse. If you have an overhaul gasket set, there should be new O rings for this purpose supplied. These are lower pressure for the return manifold to the fuel tank. If you don't have any O ring rubbers, you should be able to get them from an injection shop or your selected parts supplier. If you need pictures, let me know and I'll see what I have from when I did mine last spring.
Perfect just the info I needed. Thanks! I do have a full gasket kit I will look for those o rings
Measure and be sure those injectors are exactly the same length ( go into the head the same distance).
I eyeballed it and it looked close. I will use the calipers tonight and make sure
Is there a trick or any tips you can give me to installing the cylinder head with the timing cover still on? I tried to do it but the gasket between the head and the cover keeps getting pushed out of place and squished down. I had some tacky gasket sealer on both sides of the gasket. I'm thinking I will try again with some silicone that's a bit more slippery. The tolerance is just so tight
Might just have to pull all the studs to give me more clearance
I can't offer any suggestions here since my engine was completely disassembled. The timing cover was put on after the head. If you decide to pull the cover, there are lots of other pieces to come off first. Its a slippery slope as the injection pump, power steering pump, water pump and those gears inside all have to come out. Radiator will be in the way and so on. Careful with the head stud as I damaged a couple getting them out and two the machine shop had to deal with. Fortunately, I got a few replacements from Dale @ Tractorstuff. WIth those studs out, your should be able to line it all up and drop the head onto those two dowel pins to align it all before putting back the studs. One of the experienced guys like Melben or Tinkerer or the others that help us out here should have a suggestion for you. I'm pretty sure that the head can be removed and replaced without pulling down the rest of the engine.
I have actually had the experience after dropping a valve and managed to get the head on without any disassembling. Can't remember the details but it was heavy and awkward.
Instead of digging the oring grommets out of the injector cap, snug the cap in a vise and pull and twist on the injector body.. the rubber will slip over the injector.. THEN dig it out. put the cap back in the vise and take a small screw driver or scribe and dig straight down along the side and split it on half.. The orings look like cut up pieces of hose, they're not actual orings, they're short & fat.. LUBE them well, makes for an easy install. Put on the cap, then work the grommet into the cap, make sure its past the starting threads.. the closer you can get them to the bottom of the cap, the easier the install will be. There should be a bunch of them in your kit, on account the return line cap takes 2 of them too, the brass cap.. Send me that pump.!!! lol
Your supposed to put a LITE coat of anti-seize/never-seize on the injector body before installation also.. They have a habit of freezing to the head after years of heating & cooling, not to mention water & dirt.. as you may have already found out from disassembly. Send me that pump!! LOL
Well I could not get the dang head studs out that where on the exhaust side. I tried the two nuts approach and ended up trying vice grips. They seem to be stuck in there tight tight. I ended up just ditching the gasket and only used hi temp gasket sealer. Between the timing cover and the head. I know many automobiles only use gasket sealer nowadays instead of a gasket. So I hope it works.
I had my block decked, so the studs all had to come out. I damaged a couple and left a couple for the machine shop to deal with. Some of the holes go right into the water jacket and could be rusted in. I ran a tap through to clean up the threads before using sealer and putting them back in. You will likely be fine with the silicone gasket maker on the end of the head where the water jacket connects to/from the pump. Its only about 4 lbs on the rad cap anyway. I also used a liberal coating of copper gasket spray on my head gasket and torqued to spec. I guess you'll know how yours works out pretty quick. The Pumpguy's comments about the injector o rings, grommets or whatever they are called are a much better description than my poor attempt. Once you have done one of them, the other three are easy. These are not high pressure and along with those on the return manifold fittings, use these rubber type sealing o rings.
Someone (me) misplaced one of the injector hold down and bolt. I was going to go search the internet for one. But then thought hey! just make a new one with your new toy. My 1960 Cincinnati milling machine I picked up last month.
Nice I'd love to have a mill to go with my lathe. Is that a Clausing lathe? With those two machines, you can make tools and other machines. From there, with some experience and time to master the skills, the sky is the limit. I'm stuck with a milling attachment for my lathe but it suits the small bits I make. Anything bigger goes up the road to a local shop. Tools are a lifetime investment and some like my lathe, have lasted at least one lifetime already.
Nice Juskatla you have a lathe too! Mine is a 1940 Southbend 13" with a 5' bed. I love having the ability to make what I need when I need it. And having a mill is a game changer indeed
I love old machinery. My shop has a lot of tools from my dad, who was a machinist and mechanic. I grew up in the workshop and was taught how to do it right. I don't live anywhere near where there are many good deals on older machinery or I'd have an overfull shop. Its all good...
Dad, you got that thing running yet?? Did your gasket maker trick work??
Not yet. I've been busy with honey do's and work. I'm hoping to work on it Sunday.
Lafonda is back! She fired right up. With NO leaks!
Excellent! Its a great feeling when you have accomplished what you set out to achieve. These old tractors are relatively easy to work on and with the continued support from the experienced 'old' guys here they can be fixed and run for many more years.
Did you guys take off the rocker shafts and retorque the head bolts after running your rebuilt engine after an hour like the manual says to do? The manual also showes the old style head gasket with separate fire rings. I was not sure if this retorque is required with the new style head gasket.
Any input?
Sorry for the delay in responding. I still haven't fired mine up but will do the re-torque once its running. I'm not sure its necessary but I have followed the manual for everything so far.
Well I re torqued the head bolts. I'm glad I did. I marked them before I loosened them and They turned around another 1/4 turn. Drive it out of the garage today and put her to work. She runs strong now!! Very noticeable difference in the power. My goats like her too.
Nice, I don't think it hurt anything to follow the manual and the re-torque is one of those things I don't question, especially after all the work. I just looked at the generic information I got from my machine shop when they sent the engine back, and it specifically mentions re-torqueing the head after run in. I'd hate to end up with a gasket leak, back where I started, Have to love the goats. They love to stand in top of whatever is around. Neighbours had a pygmy pair and they were a hoot to watch. How many do you have at your place? Thanks for the update.
Just the two. They are fun to watch
Well I think I finally figured out my original issue of the rear end that keeps filling up with hydraulic fluid from the shuttle. Looking through the repair manual the transmission mainshaft needs to have a plug in the end of it. Unless you have a pto shaft sticking into it. I measured it and found a plug that was the right size. (A camshaft plug off a car) no more leaking all over and full rear end. The picture is with the plug installed.
Turned out to be the cup plug that was missing. Melben called it. I Guess I did not understand what you meant until I saw it in the manual.
Don't neglect the tube that sits up high in the transmission on the driver's side. It should have a plug to close it when you don't have the 3 pt hydraulics. We went over this way back and there are some pictures posted on my thread. It is used for a return line and dumps the hydraulic oil back into the shuttle case on units equipped with the 3pt. Melben was the one who put us onto that plug and sure enough, mine was missing, ground through the gears and bits of the spring clip were scattered in the bottom of the trans and rear gear cases. I found some of the small lube passges had bits sitting in them when I cleaned her out.
Yep I did check that and it was plugged. I worked her hard all day long on Sunday. Built a 5' tall rock wall, then back filled and leveled it. Our new chicken coop area.
Those chickens have a nice view.
My charging system is not working. Same voltage at the battery running or not on my multimeter. (I had this issue before the engine rebuild too) I have neaver had a generator before. What's the best way for me to troubleshoot it?
If the tractor sat for awhile with dead or no battery you should try to polarize the generator. My father in-laws late 60's ford tractor wouldn't charge the battery for years. He didn't use it much and always boosted it with another tractor. I installed a new battery and it wouldn't charge. I used a jumper wire from battery to generator to polarize it now it charges fine. I will upload the info I used for it. May want to do some more research fore Case tractor. Apparently if you do it wrong it will fry the generator. This generator wasn't charging so I had nothing to lose. The tach on his tractor is driven from generator. Converting to alternator would lose the tach. Good luck.
I didn't try motor testing it I just used jumper wire and it worked.
Thanks! I will give it a try
I tried it and still no charging. I'm getting 12.5v to the regulator bat terminal. But no voltage at the bat terminal of the generator. I put a jumper wire from the regulator bat terminal to the bat terminal on the generator and still no charging. Does that mean my generator is bad?
Don't mess with the generator buy a Delco alt. and install it that's what I did with my 580 CK from an auto wrecker.
The problem with going to an alternator is the loss of the tach drive. I looked into this before having my generator rebuilt and there is an alternator with tach drive available but I don't know if it is the same. I prefer to keep the original tach, so went with a rebuild and regulator cleanup. For D26, there is a decent starter/generator section in my manual that I will try to scan and post here. I'm away for another day, so it will be Wednesday at the earliest before I have the manual in front of me again. It should help with troubleshooting and understanding the operation.
If you work on your generator and the bearings are good replace the brushes and clean up the commentator but do not use emery paper little bits will embed and chew up the new brushes. When I replaced mine it never effected the tach ?? It was a no. of years ago and i don't remember the details.
Thanks guys I will have to work on the charging system another day. First on the repair list is the brakes. They have been getting weaker on me and just finally gave out. That led to a scary situation. I had just went up a hill and dumped a load of dirt. Started backing down stepped on the brake pedal and nothing. Started going backwards fast. I quickly dumped the front bucket down in an attempt to stop but it grabbed and caused me to turn to the right. ......straight towards a 25' drop off. I was able to jump off just before it went over the edge and was not hurt. After some wrangling I was able to get her back on her wheels. I let it sit for a while and then tried to start it. It turned over just a tiny bit then went thud and stopped. I'm guessing it's hydro locked. My plan is to remove the injectors and insert a small wood dowel (shish kabob stick) down and check for oil. Then slowly crank it over by hand if possible to remove any oil. But that's a little hard on this without a accessible crank nut.
Lucky you were able to bail off it. My 580c has brakes on one wheel as long as I remember to top up the fluid and pump the brake pedal about 30 times. I am on fairly level ground but you never really appreciate having brakes until you really need them and they are not there. When I polarized the generator on my Ford tractor I used a jumper wire from positive terminal on battery to one of the wires directly on the generator. I was guessing which one but it worked. I just brushed it across the connector for a split second while it was running and saw a spark and voltage came up and been good since then. My father in-law used it for years not charging the battery and it was a 5 min fix. Too bad it didn't work for you but with those hills around your place I would get those brakes fixed first.
Thank goodness your OK that is something you never want to repeat.
Count your blessings as that kind of incident often ends badly. If you are going to get into the brakes, you will want to do some research on here and see what those of us with CKs went through. Check out the posts by 68 Case. I learned a lot from his descriptions and pictures. I tried to add some pictures and information on my 580CK Project thread and they might be of some use. I got my new linings and steel balls from Dale Weiss at Tractorstuff and he sent me the rivet tool and rivets that made it easy. Just remember to orient the linings that same as what comes off, so that the holes for the springs line up properly. Don't ask how I know about this...Glad you're safe after that roll. Hug your kids tonight. You never know when life changes.
Yes I was very lucky. I took out the injectors and probed the cylinders lots of oil in them. Thinking it's from the oil bath air cleaner. Dumping through the intake and into the cylinders. So I took off the intake manifold and found a lot of oil in it and in the intake runners. Got it all cleaned out. I could not get to the bolts to turn the motor over by hand. Resorted to quickly "bumping" the starter with the injectors out to evacuated the fountain of oil out of the cylinders. (I started recording the video after several initial very short bumps of the starter) Once that slowed I probed again and there was still around 1/4" of oil in the cylinders. I poured a little diesel down the injector holes to thin out the oil and spun the engine over and that seemed to get as much as possible out. Put it all back together and she fired right up. Smoked a bit at first then cleared right up. That was a load off my mind. I got it back into the garage with no brakes.
Brakes covered in oil. Seals are bad. I broke the bearing carrier taking it out. I was really surprised when it broke. I was applying equal amounts of pressure all around it. I ordered a new aftermarket one off eBay for 175 delivered. Will install new seals. I had two .010 shims and three .005 shims on the left. The .005 shims are rusted beyond use. New ones are 14.00 EA! I have some .015 sheet metal in the garage I'm going to make one shim out of to replace the 3 damaged ones.
The brakes appear to be ok. I cleaned them well. And as per a good suggestion plan to "bake" them in the oven to remove any residual oil.
DALE @ tractor stuff.. DONT hesitate to use him.. Tellem we sent you..
As the pumpguy said, Tractorstuff, 800-428-8183 Shims that I got, $13.25, $13.25 and $17.00. Brake Band complete band replacement kit $50.00 each side. Disc and drum linings both sides $65. Balls, $3ea, etc. Side gear seal $15, O ring, carrier, $3 I am on the west coast of Canada and had a few shipments from Dale. All went USPS and even with Customs, they were at my door in 5 or 6 days. Would be a lot less in the US. When you order form someone like Dale, you can call and get advice and will actually get the right part sent. Dale stands behind his stuff and it can be returned if there is an issue. He has a large used parts supply for Case equipment and would probably have the bearing carrier. The cracking is not uncommon and has been mentioned on this forum in other threads.
Just my opinion, but looking at you shims, I'd be getting all new ones ready to install as they will fit correctly and keep your adjustments the same. You can make then, but time, material and correct fit add up. Notice the drain hole that is well covered in a post by 68 Case on here in a previous post of his. Do a bit of reading in your service manual on the installation of the shims, seals and o ring on the bearing carrier. Also be sure to wrap the splines and that nasty groove on the side gear so that you don't damage the seal going back in. I did mine a couple of times without the o ring or seal to be sure I had the process down. Take your time and you'll be fine.
The shims I showed I did replace. With one I made. Took me all of 5 min I have used Dale for many parts. Great guy. I did order the brake rod dust boots from him for this repair. As well as a WIX oil filter figured had better change the oil after the rollover. I bought a 19.00 toaster oven form Walmart and "baked" the brakes. Even after I had cleaned them very well with brake cleaner it was surprising how much oil came out when I baked them. (350 Deg f for about 1hr did the trick). Got it all back together, Checked the backlash with my magnetic base dial indicator and adjusted the brakes. The electrical tape over the splines and groove was a great tip! Made installation a snap. She stops now! Back to work Still need to figure out the no charging situation.
Back to making some rock walls.
Hey guys my 580ck 188 has started sputtering at higher rpms. Any ideas? Starts and runs great. 1500 rpm (running the backhoe digging holes) runs great. 2000 rpm under load (going uphill or driving in 3rd gear) it starts sputtering. Did this all day yesterday. But when I had to refuel after I filled her up it was back to running good. Then a while later it was back to sputtering. Anyone have experience with this?
Don't run it at hi rpms.. lol But seriously, its probably some floaters in the tank.. {supply restriction} & when u call for more fuel, it gets sucked in the supply tube.. "let off the gas" & it floats off.. Getcha a real brite lite & when the fuel gets low, take a look.. I noticed u didn't say anything about changing the fuel filters..?? It'll be REAL CHEAP insurance.. & the best 20.00 you'll spend all week..
Thanks I will check into that. I did change the filters about two years ago. Probably worth it to do again tho
Can I clean the tank while it’s in place? And if so what to I remove the petcock?
Hi guys my 1967 580ck diesel will not start this spring. It will turn over but not start. I've always been able to start it in the springtime after being winterized but not this year. I did try some starting fluid made for diesels and still no. It sounds like it wants to start but just wont fire. I added fuel conditioner in it back in the fall. Wondering if I should just drain all the diesel out and add fresh? I just don't know a lot about diagnosing diesel engines. Any help would be appreciated
Hello Dad2six.......I have posted alot on my 68 580ck restoration. Mine can sit for a year and with a second or two of crank, she will fire right up and purr like a kitty. Sounds like you have a good battery, as she is cranking. So, I am thinking that maybe she is not getting fuel. Did you turn the fuel petcock on? If so, you might try removing the fuel return line to see if the injector pump is pushing fuel.....I think the line returns to the top of the fuel filter bowl, and you can unscrew it and see if it pumps out diesel when you are cranking. If so, maybe your injectors are clogged for some reason? What is the outside temp when you are cranking. If below freezing, maybe wait for a warm day and try again. Also, does your intake manifold heater work? If so, did you try heating the element for a minute before cranking?
Thanks for your reply Ok I was able to get it running on starting fluid. But it won’t stay running. I flushed out all the diesel and check the filters they’re still clean I changed them last year. I took the line off that comes in from the fuel filters to the pump and I have diesel there but nothing coming out of the pump and nothing going to the injectors. The inlet coming into the pump has a screen on it but no check ball or anything that I can see. I can blow right through the screen and its clear. it’s just not pumping any fuel so I’m assuming it’s a bad injector pump orsomething in the injector pump?
OK, so you have good fuel flowing from the tank to the filters and from there to the pump (gravity flow). Im guessing you are right.....something clogged in the pump, or is it possible that the pump is not even turning internally? Or, maybe an air leak someplace? Do you see any fuel leaking around the pump when cranking? Maybe someone else on this site can answer this.
Been working on the 580ck lately. Rebuilt the injection pump. Runs better than ever now. I had the generator rebuilt and tested the regulator. New steering cylinders, power steering pump, rebuilt the boom and dipper cylinders. My hoe only came with a narrow 12” trenching bucket. I found a bucket off a Caterpillar backhoe for only 50 bucks. The pin holes where a little too big. So I made some bushings. My pin was just a little short to get the snap ring on. So I made pin retainer so I wouldn’t have to buy a new longer pin.
Great to get the update and see you got the injection pump rebuilt.....so, that was the problem. On your steering cylinders, did you go with original OEM Case units, or the much better priced off-name ones? I got the off-name ones from Tractor Stuff, and the price was far cheaper......and work perfect.
I got them off eBay. 115 ea.
Looks like the same ones I snagged from TractorStuff: Not fat and beefy like the original ones, but they do the job. I will save the old ones and try to find time to rebuild them in the future:
Editing problem.....lost half my reply....will type again: Did you try to do a front allignment when doing the power steering cylinders? Pics show my jerry-rigged method, and I tried to put a wee bit of toe-in and seemed to work great:
I haven’t yet. But that’s not a bad idea