Hello everyone, im in the process of troubleshooting a “turn but no start” on my 580e 4-390. I just cant get the air out of the lines. Before i start fideling with the fuel pump id like to redo all my fuel lines because they look real sketchy to me. Does anyone know a good source for oem quality prebent lines ? I cant seem to find any aftermarket and case will probubly charge a mint for them
IF u put a 3.. inplace of the J in the Case P#.. that will get u the Cummins equivalent.. in most cases.
Oh cool i didnt know that, thanks
Hello all, newby here. Bought an 1985 Case 580E backhoe with 7500 hours on it. The fuel Injector pump leaks so the previous owner told me to just shut the gas off at the bottom of the tank when not in use. I’ve run it for about 20 hours so far and no problems. Starts right up. This morning I started it up to let it warm up and forgot to open the fuel line at the bottom of the tank. I added another 5 Gallons before I started it so there’s at least 7 gallons in the tank, so I didn’t run the tank dry, just the lines from the tank to the Injector pump. I have the Case Service manual and have followed the instructions to purge the air from the system. Step 1 crack the Air Removal Screw on the intake manifold, did this and pumped the primer. Was able to purge the air and get a good flow of gas. Step 2, turned key on, don’t crank, then cracked the screw on the Fuel Injector Pump and pumped the prime bulb. I am getting absolutely NO gas at the fuel injector. I’m at a loss, can you help?
Fuel filters r empty.!!! Take them off and fill w fuel THEN try again
I wish all my service calls were this easy.!!! lol
The lever (#2) on the lift will not function if the arm inside the block is resting on the high side of the cam lobe that operates it. Sometimes the crankshaft has to turned until you can feel the hand lever going up and down full stroke.
Ok, ? Thank you first of all for the quick response. This is my first big piece of machinery, so I'm fumbling and learning here. So the larger filter has a bleed screw onthe bottom. Do I crack that and us the priming pump until gas comes out?
Yes. Then loosen a nut on a fuel injector and continue stroking the lift pump until fuel with no air bubbles comes out at the injector. I hope you put diesel fuel in the tank and not GAS.
Ok Tinkerer, got that. I will rotate engine a bit and see if it will stiffen back up. It was getting a weak feeling, but only after I tried getting gas to the fuel injector pump. It was stiffer while pumping fuel to the Intake Manifold. Again Thank you. Its raining hard out there today so I will not be able to attempt this until I get a break in the weather, its a mud pit out there right now
Yes it ABSOLUTELY was diesel fuel , but that is a fair question.
Ok guys I am back. to the pumpguysc- I cracked the bleeder on the large filter while priming, the flow was weak at best. I decided to change both filters, just to eliminate the filters as a issue. 2 things. First while I was looking at the procedures in the Case Manual on how to do that, they have a different bleeder line marked for the intake manifold? (see attached) Second, when I removed the smaller filter it was in fact full of fuel. The larger filter was at least 3/4 full of fuel, but I figured that was because I had been bleeding it. I changed both filters per manuals instructions, filling them with gas and oiling gaskets. When using the priming pump. i now have a really good stream of fuel coming out of the bottom of the large fuel filter with no air. i went through the bleeding and priming procedure again 2 different times cracking both lines one at a time. Cracked the lower Air Removal Screw as first indicated, got fuel no bubbles. Cracked the bleeder on the large fuel filter, got good fuel no air, turned on the key (no crank) then went to crack the Air Removal Screw on the Fuel Injection pump, absolutely no fuel or air coming out that I could hear. Same results if I cracked the upper hose as indicated in step 5. I just am not getting any fuel to the fuel injection pump. To Tinkerer, the Primer pump. When I am priming the pump. The handle travels 90 degrees down. When Priming the first air removal screw as well as when I am priming fuel to the fuel filters, I am getting 60 degrees of resistance while pumping. WHen I am using the Primer pump while trying to prime the line to the fuel injection pump i am only getting about the last 20 degree pumping at that point. I did try cranking the engine to move the position of the cam, with no results. Should I instead try turning the cam with just fan blade? I just do not understand why it works well until the fuel injector. Lastly, this engine and fuel system was working perfectly, until i stupidly didn't open the fuel line at the bottom of the tank. This is how we learn. I just feel I am missing a Air removal port somewhere. Do I need to crack each individual injector? Again guys, thank you for your help.
Yes, Each injector has to have bubble free fuel going to it. The motor will never start if only one or two injectors purged. Remove the banjo bolt (#1 that you have a red circle around) and check it for any crap that may be trapped in it. I don't if it will work on your machine, but many times I have applied about 10 psi of air pressure into a fuel tank to prime an engine. I wrap a rag around a blowgun.
Ok. Got it. I will remove banjo bolt, check it for junk. Will pressurize the tank and bleed the injectors. Will check back in after that. Thank you.
Crack the steel lines going into the injectors a turn or two.. ALL the lines at the same time.. Make sure the filters are full and the tank is ON..
Will do that in the morning. Thank you.
Looking at the pump it's leaking from the throttle shaft. Pumpguy can walk you through fixing the leak after you get it running. I say do it now but might be better to get it running first just to make sure it's not something else. Joe H
You got the manual repair and operator of so, can you email [email protected] just bought the same one
That hand priming lever operates the pump the same as the cam does, if it has resistance on the first pump, then it is not being held "open" by the cam and is operating correctly. The cam, or the lever will pull the diaphragm back to suck fuel in, that is the resistance you feel, then the spring pressure will push the fuel out to the filters and on. If the cam is in position that it is holding the diaphragm you won't feel resistance because the diaphragm is already pulled back. IF the fuel did not flow after the last stroke, then the diaphragm hasn't moved, so you won't feel resistance. That's what the 20 degree pumping is, if you open the filter bleeder very slowly while pumping you'll feel the same thing. IF you feel harder resistance on the lever, the suction is blocked. Easy to confirm these by removing one line at a time and blocking things with your other finger. The bottom of the filter is for draining water, use the top screws for bleeding air for now. In your picture and the picture from the manual as best I can tell are wrong, the air bleeder screw is the one on the body of the injection pump right at the red arrow by 3, NOT THE CIRCLED ONE. Open the lower one at the arrow, and the one directly above it that looks identical. Don't touch the bolts that hold the injector lines. Loosen the injector lines at the injectors, only one turn or a half is plenty. It may take a lot of pumping to get fuel to the bleeder screws on the injection pump, or you may have to crank the engine a little then keep priming? Once there is fuel with no air there, then close those and loosen the injector lines.
I wonder if the fuel is flowing freely out of the tank. I think I would go under it and remove the line from the shutoff valve to see how much can come out.
I can’t believe how WRONG that diagram in the manual is.!! If he FILLS THE FILTERS he won’t need the hand primer.
Hi Guys. Delmer, Tinkerer, The Pumpguys thank you all for your time and help. Did All the things you guys suggested and was totally frustrated, until I pressurized the tank. Once I did that it fired right up. I am extremely grateful to each and every one of you for your time and knowledge. Bottom line, don’t run your tractor out of gas dumbass!!
Lol.!!! Ain’t that words to live by,lol Happy Tractoring.
Ummmm, Bottom line ---- fix the fuel shut off on the injector pump ! It is usually an easy repair.
Diesel not gas. Running out of gas isn't usually a problem. With diesel it can be a nightmare sometimes. Get in the habit of calling it diesel. You get the wrong parts or surface guy and they'll either get confused or think you're not too bright and give you a hard time.
FUEL.. as in DIESEL- FUEL.. Gas as in GAS-OLINE
Fuel is better than calling it gas.
I am going to say that neither of the #1 and #3 are bleeding screws Just up and left 2" of #1 circle is the filter bleeder Under the #3 arrow tip is one of the pump bleeding screws Just up and left of the #3 circle is another pump bleeding screw The screw/knob on bottom of large filter is only for water drainage (will not work for air purging in the filter) This might not have helped but might help clarify the system somewhat better
I think you're right on all counts. #1 doesn't look like a bleeder either, and where it's located it wouldn't bleed the filters very well. Sometimes you can do everything right, and it still needs a little extra help/pressure to get stuff to go. Those instructions didn't do you any favors...
This is from the Case 4-390 & 4t-390 service manual. It is a separate publication and not part of the 580E Service Manual.
When I first changed fuel filters on my 580 SE I looked at the manual and said no way. Just prefilled the filters and she took off.
Yup.. pre-fill the filters, move the throttle to 1/2 or step on the pedal 1/2 way.. crank the engine and wait for the “studder” to stop and ur good. Who is it, Nige that will fire u if he sees u pre-filling filters.?? I’m just the exact opposite..I’LL FIRE U, if I see u pumping a hand primer for 15-20 minutes OF MY TIME.. lol
Just to prevent confusion, this thread is about a Case 580E that was run completely out of fuel. If Workaholic filled the filters and did nothing else I would be amazed if he would ever get it running in timely manner. The thread is not about a routine change of the filters.
I think the most important thing when pre-filling the filters is to use new fuel from a known clean container. If I'm changing filters I'll often just get a small jerry can of diesel for filling the filters. You can even pour a little into a jar to see if there's any noticeable water in it. I've never had any problems with diesel fuel but need to put a filter on my slip tank just to be sure the fuel is clean. I think Alberta generally has better fuel than some other locations. Have read several times of people having contaminated fuel both diesel and gas rightvfrom the pump. Thankfully we don't have a lot of ethanol in the gas. I don't think the premium fuel has any but I don't generally want to pay the extra $$$ for premium fuel. Mechanic friend said I should use premium in my water truck because I don't use it often enough and even a little ethanol can cause problems.
Why is is that some people don’t want to prefill the fuel filters?
It’s about adding contaminated (dirt) fuel into them.. Unless you’re getting the fuel from an old dirty pail that’s been left in the dirt.. I wouldn’t be worried about it.. As far as that goes, I don’t WHERE you could get the fuel from TO BE worried about it.?? We had a 55 gal drum that laid on its side that had a filter on the out spout.. so I never gave it a second thought.. & usually when someone is going to check out a “no-start” condition, they’ll stop and get a 5 gal container of diesel fuel to take with them.. IMO
Don't fill the center, the center is clean. The dirty fuel goes in the outside and is filtered the same as any other fuel. How about threads missing the inner seal? seems like the threads have plenty of clearance to bypass dirty fuel if the inner seal is missing, which it often is.
U can ask Tinkerer about THAT.. (Wink) lol
LOL !! You have a heckofa good memory pumpguy. That was long time ago. For those that don't know what happened. I changed my fuel filters and the center "O" ring stuck to the old primary filter.
What was the result?
Him bad mouthing my work..lol (In his head)
I had to prime the pump every time I shut down the engine. When it would start, lots of white smoke and explosions in the exhaust. Weirdest fuel related thing I ever saw. LOL !