I have a 580 case SK that wont go into forward or reverse till it is warmed up or moved a bunch by dragging itself around with front bucket or arm. once it does go into gear it will work flawlessly all day without fail. problem wont reappear till machine has set a while like overnight or a week. sometimes the next day it goes right into gear. other days it wont and takes a bit till it will. trans fluid level good. intake screen not clogged and filters changed. one thing that is interesting is the back up warning wont come on till it goes into gear. this tells me a lack of pressure not engaging the reverse pressure switch. will try disconnecting cut out solenoid if i can find it. of course this will only tell me if there is an electrical problem. need a repair manual something awfull. any other ideas or thoughts?
its the shuttle pump more likely, it bolts to the bell housing (inside) trevor b
Get the manual. I just don't get it, a backhoe is one complicated machine, something most of us don't have any experience with before we own one. And a manual seems to be an optional purchase. It should be the first thing you buy..not when something breaks. Yesterday I posted why a Ford 5550, 40 years old, would have the same symptoms as your beast. Plastic seals in the transmission get brittle in the cold, don't seal, and you get no movement. I found that in the Ford Manual I bought 25 years ago.....
Welcome to the wonderful world of machinery and money. Its a game of can I afford to fix it or not . Its a question can I justify to own one .
shutle pump trevor b what makes you say this? what should I look for or how can I test it? is this a common problem that crops up in this machine? I know I need the manual and I know I can find it with a manual. just hoping there was some experience out there that might point me in the right direction. Just haven't had the time to go get one.
It sounds like the charge pump is loosing prime. If there are no oil leaks in the suction pipe between the transaxle & the convertor housing, the pump is the next thing to inspect. Look closely at the steel suction tube, I have seen them wear through, by rubbing against the chassis with very little oil leakage present. This would create a cavitation problem & cause exactly what you are describing.
alrman thanks so much. this is the kind of experienced reply I was hoping for. My first thoughts when I saw that the reverse indicator would come on the same time the trans would go into reverse let me think it was a hydraulic pressure problem. I had thought maybe the system was loosing its prime. Ok so the steel suction tube I need to inspect runs between the transaxle and the convertor housing? I will try and get this done in the next few days. lots of snow and crappy weather here in MO. Still need to get manual. Has anyoneone downloaded one off he internet? there is a site I can download one for $ 20 but who knows how good its gona be. anyone have experience with this?
Is this machine the series 1 or the 3? There is a bit of difference in the trans / trans axle....the s/n is one way to discern, the other method is the gearshift lever: through the floor board or mounted otherwise....
i think the sk is a phase 3 machine with gear shift on the side console i have manuel for phase one but the drivetrain is diffrent if that can help you a bit here you can see part scematic for a 580sk http://partstore.casece.com/us/parts-search.html#epc::mr100583ag45012
Ok guys its been a while since I have posted on this problem. I think we have it narrowed down to a torque converter. We have just been living with the problem till it has gotten worse and worse to the point at which when it gets hot it has no push power. Engine is developing full power and is not an issue. Going through the troubleshooting procedure in the case book we have pressure to the forward and reverse clutch in the proper range when in gear. Ok heres the thing. with the floor boards out we notice when its in gear and under power we have good pressure and the drive shaft is not turning. to us this would indicate weak torque converter as if the converter were good and the fwd/rev clutches were slipping the drive shaft would have to be spinning for them to slip. Right? good pressure and shaft not spinning means clutch packs are engaged and solid and converter is slipping. here is something else we noticed. when cold and the transaxle in neutral and the shuttle put in forward or reverse the drive shaft would quit spinning. that is till it warmed up a little and then it would spin when put in forward or reverse. this would mimic the exact problem of what we thought it not wanting to go into gear. It is going into gear alright as pressure test show but not getting power from converter. Is it possible for a converter to lose its prime? Funny thing is my ford f250 with a 460 does this after setting for a long time. it takes a while to charge the converter. I had two fords that both did the same thing. Dont know why I didnt pop to that erlier. Ok so the plan is for now we are going after the torque converter. I think we may replace the pump while we are there if its cost effective and it looks the least bit worn. Has anyone changed a converter and pump in one of these and know where to get a deal on parts? 580 super k series 3
Sorry I can't help, but I have a 580k with the cold issues too, would be keen to hear your solution in the end. Good luck with it all!
I think the K and super k are different in the fact that the fwd/rev is on the torque converter behind the engine and the super k it is part of the trans axle. does yours have a drive between the trans and axle? I would think just like mine you would need to start with some pressure tests
Got the torque converter housing off and torque converter out today. here is what we found in addition to the TQ being bad and in need of rebuild. Think I found a rebuild shop that says they can rebuild for around $350 which is a real bargain after shopping it around. This makes the decision to replace the pump real easy. Also rear roller bearing on output shaft is pretty crunchy. Looks like we were spot on diagnosis to check the torque converter area.
After puking my guts out from getting a quote from case for a new or rebuilt converter I decided to try and look for a better deal. Best I could find aftermarket was 550 plus 350 core charge. They send core into re builder and re builder checks to see if its rebuild-able. Thing I really don't like about that is your deposit is held hostage for a good couple of weeks. Then really how would you know if the re builder is honest if they say its not rebuild-able and it really is so they just steal your deposit? Sorry guess im just not that trusting and I am really not much of a gambler. So I started an internet search for a company that is local or at least a short drive close that rebuilds torque converters. I came across Samco transmission out of Osage Beach MO. It is about 90 mile drive but hey what the heck its a pretty drive. I arrived at Samco and met Mike who does all their rebuilds. He took one look and said sure no problem its just a GM Borg Warner type converter. Only diff is yours has 6 mount lugs instead of three and it prolly has a different stall speed. He says well lets make sure it build-able and he chucked it up in his lathe and cut it apart. Spread the parts out on his bench and said yes no problem will have it latter today and when they called to say it was done the price was only $275. Man I cant say enough good things about Samco. Thanks so much guys! You saved my ass.
Nice, you don't see that type of service too often.:thumbsup
I had a guy that helped me out like that when I was rebuilding a turbo 350. But he later left that shop, which is ok because I don't live in Tucson anymore. Do you know what he actually did? I assume o-rings, seals and bushings. But what can go bad that it wouldn't be rebuildable?
There is a roller thrust bearing that was bad. the one way sprag clutch was bad. a few other worn parts like that back case was chewed up pretty bad. He said he had one so no problem. also the shaft that sticks out and engages the pump was shot and a new one welded on. when I looked at it, it was full of junk where it had been wearing on parts. It was obvious it was in need of a rebuild. What really gets me is how Case charges so much for what is standard GM borg warner parts. Guess they just count on you not knowing that! In a way it just dont seem right and really pisses me off.
Thought my torque converter was bad, turned out the engine wasn't getting enough fuel. But at the time I wasn't sure what the problem was. The sprag alone would have set me back $2,800. It's just a Clark transmission... I have no problem with someone making a few bucks but, come on!!!
Today we finally recieved our new pump and all the small orings, seals and new bearings from case. Had a great weather day to work on this thing and got it all back together. Here is the new pump mounted in the TQ housing. After getting it all back together the moment of truth when it is put in gear and it snaps into gear. the reverse alarm comes on instant instead of taking a few moments like it used to. TQ pulls good and hard when a load applied to it and you can spin the wheels against a load with not much trouble. After it sets a bit and you start it up it pops right into gear like it should. I think I can finally say problem solved. And with a bunch of searching for the best deal on parts we got it all together for less than $900. Not to bad in my opinion!
First I would like to thank workshoprat92 for starting the tread and alrman, who has helped me in the past, for the idea of solving my problem.I had the same problem.Sometime the machine would work fine,park it for a couple days and it wouldn't move forward or backward especially when cold.Alrman mentioned charge pump bad or losing prime and losing prime was the problem. BUT guess what caused it ?? When I was removing the suction tube I noticed sparks were flying. The large battery cable from the battery to the starter was rubbing the tube and arcing causing to wear a hole in the tube almost a 1/4 inch in diameter. Hence losing prime and suction. Thanks again fellows...........Sam
I'm glad to hear there are competent builders out there. I had my first K, It'd slip when really working hard, getting hot. I sold it. The present owner I don't believe has used it for heavy loader work. The K I have now doesn't slip. I bought it immediately after a local said he rebuilt the torque converter. It has never slipped, but leaked a bit when I bought it 2000 hours ago.It got progressively worse. I gave in last year, and had the dealer fix the leak. About $1000. Willie
@crankysam Your very welcome! Glad some old advice has come in useful for someone