Hey guys so the machine i recently bought the temp buries itself once I start driving it changed heater hoses to in cab heater core and put new thermostat in temp still redlines , take thermostat out and machine runs cold , top of tank at filler neck was leaking soldered it up , still not building any pressure tested and holds 7lbs no problem. Run it around parked up in the air thinking air in system . Been running w cap loose and cap tight and still can’t get temp in normal . Engine is hot but hoses from block to heater core in cab are cold . Rad is cold also. When I ran it with pressure tester at 7psi the heater hoses ran hit out of block and back to water pump housing . Think I have all the air locks out but I’m stumped. Seems the new T stat is just not opening . Hate to pull water pump if it’s fine. Any ideas? Thank u
I had a 580B and ran it for 5 yrs. with no thermostat because it would run hot. Sold it with 15,000 hrs. 2 yrs later the purchaser contacted me for registration papers and said it was still going strong.
I’m about ready to drill a small bypass hole in the old brass t stat pulled water pump and it’s fine out about 60 bucks worth of coolant and time . What blows me away is I have warm heater hoses now to cab which I didn’t have but rad is still ice cold and no pressure build up with cap tight put new cap on pressure tested system etc. block is hot but thinking the t stat is just not getting hot enough to open or it’s new and stuck? Small point up to top of rad and long end down in housing in pump body . I just don’t want to run it hot like this .
An if I pull stat it sits in the yellow a cold all day long but need heat for the cab for winter .
Turn the heater on and see if it works , mine worked well enough with the needle in the yellow.
I will try that I had no heat at all the hoses were ice cold but seems I have circulation through them now . Talked to a old tech at case today he mentioned trying a different t stat to match the size of the stat in there but one that opens at 165 and see what it does he also mentioned that these water pumps have rebuild kits that people would buy to save a few dollars and press a new seal and impeller in them , said if it wasn’t pressed on to the proper clearance it would not properly pump that it had to be close to the plate for the pump to actually work if not in spec it would cavitate . Not sure what had been done to this machine the T stat I took out was original brass stat so maybe pump has never been done . I was going to say the temp guage is faulty but for the rad to be ice cold an guage to slowly climb then pin says to me that tsat is closed off and not opening at all . The hose and coolant in top of rad is cold .
Try a new thermostat. I bought a new one once and it was defective.
When it you have a stat in it take the rad cap off and see if it's bubbling when it warms up. Can't remember for sure but I think I came to the conclusion the head gasket was leaking when the motor got hot but didn't when it was colder.
you can test the thermostat easily. Put it in a pot on the stove with a thermometer. Note the temp at which it opens and when it is fully open. You don't have the thermostat in backwards do you? Are you sure the radiator is not clogged internally?
If it runs cold without the thermostat, that indicates a thermostat problem. It is either defective . Or it is installed upside down, if that is possable in your engine. If the the thermostat is a good one and installed correctly then you probably have a water pump problem.
As Tinkerer said if it runs cold with no thermostat then you most likely have a flow issue. Without the thermostat you could have convection circulating coolant. I would verify the thermostat is opening at the correct temperature. Just because it is new does not mean it is good. Always verify when diagnosing anything. Then if you find nothing you need to remove the water pump and inspect the impeller.
The thermostat would be the obvious , but in my case I tried 3 different ones 2 ,160f and 1 ,185f tested them all on a stove to verify they worked. Water pump was circulating in rad so I gave up and ran without it. Without it the coolant stayed full , with it the coolant would go down . Because I never did solve the exact cause I'm interested in the out come in this case.
A rise in temoerature would cause a leak to open up. Or a radiator cap to leak. Some times a cap can allow vapor to escape and the level will go down. Kinda obvious in cold weather. Pressure testing is an essential tool with these problems. IMHO of course.
Pulled the stat yesterday tested it a few times , also tested the old brass one both opened when submerged in boiling water and closed fine, did it a few times , took a 1/8 drill bit drilled a hole on one side of. Stat , took a real small bit punched another hole in other side put back together , added all the coolant I took out to change the stat . Lost maybe 6 ounces from the stat to top of hose when I pulled it apart , added a additional half jug of water to system , couldn’t for the life of me squeeze any more into the system before I drilled the holes . Runs just above yellow borders the green normal temp now block isn’t hot now . Heater in cab is warm but not hot hot . Ordered a new pump anyhow , but thinking air cannot get out an water pump was just cavitating , and rad is nice and warm now , kind of a bandaid but at least I’m comfortable working this machine for a week or two before changing water pump. Haven’t pulled it to inspect it . The wierd thing is now that I drilled the two small holes in stat I have a raddle coming from water pump or blade which I didn’t have before , and it was upon cold start up in am . Went away after warmed up . Read somewhere in a post about some famous raddle in these machines but cannot find thread . Thanks for all the help will post results of the water pump Once new one arrives .
After soldering up filler neck and a pin hole from hood rubbing, now I have one of the two small heater cores that are attached together in the fan box seeping in the floor after system heats up. Grrr
I feel your frustration. Nothing more aggravating than chasing an issue only to have another one pop up. Sounds like your system was air bound after all. The best way to fill a cooling system and get the air out of the system is to use a vacuum filler. The tool is worth the money. Look on YouTube if you don't know about them.
I will check it out I was using a pressure tester at 7psi and running machine to try to force air out of system and it did finally force coolant through block out to heater hose in cab and back to water pump , found most of the leaks until the heater core went was steaming when I did get heat finally through it but must have let go once I pressurized the system. the service manual says 4psi rad cap is that a typo ?.or is there just no pressure in this system. I put a new 16lb cap on it because it fit . Not that I’ve hand any pressure in the system yet, not even 1 lb lol
From the service manual.
4 psi I guess ! That’s what book says just never had a system with such low press blowoff . Sleds,quads ,trucks , John Deere’s . Well guess I’ll get a 4 psi rad cap from case then .
Back to the temp issue , pulled water pump looked really good impeller like new . Installed new water pump since it arrived , put in original stat that tested fine . Have a small 1/8 hole drilled in it . Machine rate back to heating up again . The coolant I drained from system left a small sooty looking film on the inside of clear water jugs , I filtered the coolant as most of it was new . I’m just wondering if that sooty film, which is not drastic is it from a small head gasket leak or is it from 50 years of coolant and whatever’s been added over the years . Going to pressure test system once machine is hot . What psi should I air it up too and how long should I let it sit before I get result. ? Thanks guys , might just put the stat that I bought and drilled two small holes in as it runs in the green with that one . The top 90 pipe from top of rad is getting hot once it hits high green on guage , so stat had to be opening . But the coolant in top of the rad when I sip my finger Is only Luke warm , so I dunno what to think .
Have you checked the fuel injection pump timing ?
Are you sure the sender and gauge are accurate? Does the engine boil over? A bad head gasket or cracked sleeve on those engines is pretty easy to diagnose, watch for bubbles in the radiator neck when the system is full? Severe compression leaks will forcibly blow water out of the radiator! What does it do if you put the machine to work. My life was those machines and I have never heard of drilling T stats, nor have they been really hard to get the air out of the system.
You haven't answered edgephoto's question, are you sure the radiator isn't clogged internally? What does the inside of the radiator look like? Have you taken the time to flush your system? With all those leaks in the system and the greasy ass film in the jugs the previous owner may have loaded the system with some kind of stop leak concoction and you just don't have good flow.
Rad looks clean inside I haven’t flushed the system but I may do that still and buy another 2 fresh jugs of antifreeze . There’s no bubbles while running or can I see the coolant circulating once hot . No pressure in system still . And didn’t boil over. Eng block gets hot and heater hoses to cab heater from block get extremely hot when the guage buries itself. I haven’t checked the pump timing but at low idle the machine does hunt a bit not steady idle . When I bump it up to0 1000rpm it’s pretty smooth . I drilled the small hole in stat originally to get the air trapped in the system out and it fills so much easier now than trying to burp the hoses and wait for t stat to open , prob going too look for a stat with the little brass vent plug on it and put a 160 def in. Haven’t changed the sending unit or guage as it seems accurate as to how the machine is behaving and running . With the temps. Rad fills up fast so don’t think it’s plugged internally and no **** has come out the drain plug each time I’ve opened it and dumped the coolant . Externally I cleaned and pressure washed everything and fan pulls air hard through it . Coolant is only warm in top of rad . And the bottom feed of rad then comes up into the cast pipe than swings into the side of the water pump case is super hot should that not be the cool side pulling coolant from bottom of rad into the pump case and out top through stat and into top of rad? If u follow what I mean?
Just because no **** came out of the cooling system when you drained it does not mean the rad could be plugged or partially plugged. The solder that seals the rad tubes to the header plates can corrode and greatly reduce the flow of coolant through the rad core.
Or I could just do like the last guy pull the stat w run the machine for the next 15 years like he did. No overheat . Not really wanting to chase the problem by buying a new rad to hope it resolves the issue I’m leaning towards a head gasket with a pin hole going to do a system flush and see if that helps .
Get a non contact thermometer, and check the block and head temp when it's overheated. IF it's really overheated, then check the thermostat housing going to the radiator and the water pump inlet coming back from the radiator. I agree with most of the reasoning so far, but that will tell us what's going on. Otherwise we could speculate forever.
Yes for sure ran it tonite for a hour working it temp pinned then at one point half way through it dripped down to the yellow bordering green area than pinned again rate after heater hoses to cab are super hot sn it seems too not eh. As well as it did when I had the other stat in it an it was in the yellow . Tomm I will laser it everywhere coolant in top of rad was hot but maybe tops 135-140 deg easnt scalding . And I let frkmcbottom of rad into side of pump body is cooking hot ? But ya I’m playing a guessing game . For all I know it’s fine and temp sending unit is wonky . Going to change it out with an another one soon as I get it .
Measure the temp of both radiator hoses. They will be within a few degrees of each other in a system with a good radiator. Check of course after the thermostat opens. No need to waste more money looking for a thermostat with jiggle pin. An 1/8" holes does the trick and won't cause any issues. Instead of tossing parts at it spend the time to diagnose it. Warm it up to the point the thermostat opens and take readings.
Install a thermostat and know what its temp rating is. If its 165 then the engine shouldn't run below that temp as the thermostat regulates the temp while the engine is working. Wait until the engine is warmed up and the coolant/water is circulating and shoot the thermostat housing first and record that temp! Then shoot the water pump inlet where the coolant enters it and record that temp. What is the difference in the temps? Do this at high idle with no load, then do the same with the engine loaded. Are the readings comparable? I look for a 20-30 degree difference on average. When your engine is at thermostat temp on the heat gun.........where is the needle on your gauge in comparison?
I will shoot temps today and post results .
Well is been a moment since I posted my potential overheat issues, after changing water pump and putting original thermostat back in the machine temps were still spiking . Shot temps after working machine and the temps seemed well In range on block and at housing etc. made me think I’m crazy. Upset I smacked the temp gauge and the needle went from red to orange then bottomed out like it wasn’t running , smacked it again and needle jumped back up to normal green and held there . Took front panel off to do some wiring ,cleaned up posts and wires on back of guage for the hell of it . Temp gauge seems to be working fine , now and machine temp seems to be spot on . Does take a lot longer for the stat to open as I had. Drilled a Small hole in the stat for air locks. But it does eventually open and I have cab heat again , and machine seems to be running a lot better. so I’m going to chalk it up to a faulty temp gauge and maybe had a air lock that worked it’s way out . I was going to flush the system with rad flush but now I’m going to leave it for the winter ,run it and maybe give it a flush in the spring .
May i ask what water heater did you get? Was the original still good? Want to sell it? I wouldn't flush the system if its working. Thats a good way to create leaks. Have you seen what it takes to replace the radiator? Not easy.
I bought a coolant heater on Amazon it works for milder climates but not for -20 Celsius. Was minimal warm . I ripped that out and I had a floor heater that has two huge 12v fans attached to the case from an old school bus. I stripped the case from it . Fit it behind seat post on floor with fans firing forward ,high and low speed , ran a inkbird temp controller with a relay to the fan switch and now have all the heat in the world . I set the heater to come on at 66 and off at 70 deg . It works like a charm. The old case factory heater has a pin hole in it somewhere. It worked but wasn’t what I wanted , I’m not sure exactly where I put it , if I can find it you can have it. It definitely worked better than the Amazon heater with a dinky computer fan in it trying to blow heat.