Hello, i am in desperate need of help. i seem to be having trouble getting fuel at the injectors. the pump that was installed is a reman pump. i cranked for some time and i still dont see fuel at the injectors. H.E.L.P would be greatly appreciated. Thank You Very Much.
It has got a manual fuel shut off lever?? Is it in the 'run' position? Later models can look same but have electric shut off. If you have fuel & it's cranking it must deliver fuel to injectors - even if timing is out.
WB, Since we don't yet know what happened in your last thread, on the same topic, I'll assume your pump was full of fuel, it was turning, no fuel was squirting out of the pump body with the injection lines removed, and the fuel shut-off lever was in the correct position. Throttle should be held wide open to prime the pump also. I hope the pump supplied to you has been set up for the correct rotation, left hand or right hand, sometimes it is indicated on the decal. I would verify that with the supplier. Your pump should not have any stuck components from long term storage, since it has been tested recently. It is always a good idea to replace the 2 shaft seals. Engines have been lost through oil dilution. Remove the pump and mount it in a vise, carefully wrapped with a protective material like an old coat. Tilt the pump so that the drive end is at a 45 deg angle. Construct a rod with a flat end on one end that will fit the slot inside the pump and can be turned with a variable speed drill on the other end. Fill the pump through the shaft hole with the cleanest diesel you have, preferably what drains through your 2 new fuel filters. Think clean here. Supply clean fuel through a short hose to the fuel inlet fitting. A funnel will do. Drive the pump with the drill, slowly at first, the same direction the engine does. Be very careful of the pump bushings, do not rub them with the tool. Once the pump starts squirting fuel out all 4 holes, reinstall it. Crank the engine with the fuel supply line connected, the fuel return line disconnected , the injection lines off, the fuel shut-off in the correct position, and the throttle wide open. Let us know if this does not work. Phil
ok that seems right... so im asuming the pump is at fault AGAIN... Thank You,
Thank You Phil i will get back to you.
Hey Phil. I need to clarify something. You are talking about having the pump drive shaft pulled from the pump body and making a rod to turn the shaft that's down inside the pump body, correct? I was asking WB automotive on his last thread if he had removed the shaft, he said no. I've always been told by the injection shops that whenever you remove the shaft out of one of those Roosa Master pumps that you need to keep the throttle lever in full throttle position during the time the shaft is removed or the governor counterweights will drop out of position.
Atco: We always remove them with the throttle wired back. Arlman is also correct the pump timing could be completely screwed up it would still deliver fuel to the injectors just not at the right time. I'd be more inclined to think that there is a fuel shut off problem
ATCO, I never heard of that precaution on these DB pumps. I read back through my 580D service manual which shows step by step removal of the injection pump. It actually shows the earlier model pump with the manual shut-off. No mention of the throttle lever wired in full throttle position. I'm going to ask next time I go to the local injection shop. Thanks for bringing that up ATCO and gggraham. Might save me some grief down the road. My manual shows using a large screwdriver(a clean one), inserted into the pump, to align timing marks in the window. To replace the injection pump, complete with shaft, on a G188 is not easy. Coolant has to be drained, and a large cover removed. Not much room to work with the rad in place..... Most of these pumps get replaced using the old shaft still in place, with new shaft seals installed back to back. Phil
I can't confirm it Phil, I've just been told that by injection shops. And I lean toward listening to their advice.
Thanks ATCO, I will check that out and get back to you. Good to post info like that. I better sign off it's almost bedtime. Phil
580b running out of fuel I have a case 580B hoe. it idles just fine for as long as you want. however, when you drive the tractor, it runs for about 3 or 4 minutes then runs out of fuel. if you let it set for about 5 minutes, it will fire up again. But the same process have again. It seems like it is running out of fuel. I have changed the fuel filter, but no improvement. any suggestion?
Welcome to the forum Grapeman. You most likely have a blockage in the fuel return line. Not 100% sure on a 580B about this, as the parts info at Casece does not show the valve I am thinking of....... this is a pic of a 580D On the top of the injector pump there may be a fitting with a tiny glass ball (check valve) in it. These get blocked with debris & cause just the problem you describe. Below is a pic - item #46. If you have this remove it & clear it using some compressed air. If you don't have one of these fittings remove the lines & blow air between pump & tank. For what it is worth, be sure you have a good delivery supply of fuel to the pump. Bad news is if you do have check valve & it is blocked, you clear it & runs fine for a while & blocks again - your injector pump needs an overhaul as it has a ring in it that is breaking up & causing the problem. I've tried searching forum for this info, as I'm sure it has been disscussed numerous times before - but I think it is lost in threads with offline subjects, as this one is.......
Check your tank as it may have a suction filter on the supply line to the pump.................................don't forget to look at item 14 in the picture above as it is also a filter.............
'93 Case K Super King Backhoe I've read some of your comment on fuel injection pumps for backhoe. My backhoe will not start and I've been told that the injector pump is out. No fuel coming out of back, all lines are free with plenty of fuel, everything is bled out. I've taken it off and put it on bench. Filled it with fuel and tested it. Nothing comes out the back. I'm convinced it is in the pump, no pressure. Can anyone tell me how to get center shaft out of pump without doing damage. On front I've passed the second lockring in dismanteling it and took off what I could on back. Is shaft pressed out or are there more lock rings? Also can anyone tell me where I can get replacement parts as I've been told Case will not sell them. They want from $900 to $1600 for a replacement. I'm retired and can't afford that. I do all my own mechanic work and know what I'm up aganist. Maybe someone can help me. Thanks. Ed T
Ed is that a rotary pump? is it a standyne, Cav or Bosh ? regardless they are not something to be played with, How do you propose to calibrate the pump when you have it rebuilt, You might be able to get a specialists injector pump repair shop to recon it for you at a more realistic price.
Ed, Are you sure the electric shut-off solenoid is OK? Without 12v or if solonoid is u/s it won't pump fuel.
After replacing the flex ring and seals in the injection pump on my 580C I am having the same issue with no fuel to the injectors. Fuel is being pumped through the pump and out of the check valve at the top but none to the injector lines. I spoke with a diesel shop and they told me there are only a couple of things that will cause this. 1) Fuel is shut off to the pressure side of the pump (same as when you pull the fuel shut off lever) 2) The input shaft has sheared due to a jammed governor weight. 3) metering valve is not working I don't think it is a sheared shaft due to the fact I checked the spin of the pump after reassembling and also the feed pump in the back is pumping fuel through the pump. I pulled the top off the pump, sucked out the fuel and checked the movement of the governor and fuel shutoff and they seem to be working correctly. I am going to remove it this weekend and tear it down to find the problem and report back with photos of the tear down and what I find.
Thanks. It's a CVA. Will have to think this over. Don't know which way to go.
I don't have a manual, where is the solenoid located? Thank you for your come back. I appreciate the help. Ed
GWS: Thanks for the info. Let me know what you find out. I just put a high pressure on the back line of pump but still nothing comes out. Let me know how far into shaft you go and are you going to go inside of pump. "Have you thought about a gasoline motor? I have" Thank you for your comment.
Ed, I'm a little confused as to what pump & model backhoe you say you have.Normally, A Super K would be turbo (black engine)with a bosch pump & a CAV pump would be on a natually asperated (power tan) engine only???? Either way they both have a solenoid - the bosch is on top at the rear of the pump & the CAV at the bottom at the rear of the pump. You should hear an audible "click" when 12v is applied to them.
I guess eveyone forgot about lil'ole me... I dont make it to this site much but I can be contacted easily..just put, at a o l after my name. ALL I NEED are the pump #'s off the tag on the side of the pump.DONT scrape it..get some "pain/gasket" remover from the parts store and spray it on and wipe it off.. IF I cant walk you thru the repairs, I can do the job for 1/2 the fuel shop cost..
Tore down the injection pump again today to see what I did that made it not pump fuel to the injectors. Unfortunately I did not find anything wrong, backwards or missing. Found one small note in the service manual saying to fill the gap between the hydraulic pistons with oil. Something I did not do the first time around. Put it back together just the way it came apart and it took about 4 try's on the starter and fired up. Ran a little rough for about 30 seconds and smoothed out. I have no idea why it would not pump before, unless it was a air lock in the pistons. That's the only thing I did different. So I'm happy. Now it starts with just a bump of the starter. Hope it stays that way.
GWS, You are correct..When building a pump think, THE WETTER, THE BETTER.. Lube oil is abit thick but will work in a pinch.. just dip all the parts in diesel fuel and your good to go.. In the 'biz' we use whats called, "calibration fluid", it has the same properties as diesel fuel except the "flash point" is much higher. Glad you got her going.. BTW> Did you have a book or did you lay each piece out?
alrman, Thank you for your help. The pump is a CVA and the solenoid is on the bottom in back. What part does it play. Also on inside front there is some type of gears that slide back and forth, What part do they play. I don't understand why it was built that way. I don't know how to get the lower back housing off. It must be pressed on.
Ed, the solenoid turns the fuel supply to the injector pump on & off. Have you dismantled the pump? Gears that slide back & forth?....... I think you are describing the governor.
I downloaded the Stanadyne manual for a DB2 six cylinder model (closest I could find). The first time I just had parts of a manual and it didn't have the part about lubing the pistons. Laid out every single part and kept reading the manual over and over until I understood how each part worked. I didn't really expect it to work this time since I couldn't find anything wrong and was surprised when it fired up. I was hoping to find something that would help out Ed but I don't think our pumps are the same.
No Ed's got a CAV, DPA.. and you have a Stanadyne[roosa master] DBG. the book isnt going to help ole' Ed.
I looked at the manual for the CAV pump and it is similar to the Stanadyne in the way the 2 hydraulic pistons work against each other. Since mine seemed to have been air locked there, Ed's may be doing the same thing. Don't know if there is a way to prime the piston area without taking the pump apart. Thought it might help letting him know that is what appears to have been my problem since it's working fine now and we had the same problem with no fuel to the injectors but everywhere else in the pump.
http://www.scribd.com/doc/38688870/CAV-DPA-Pump-Rebuild-Manual On the back of the Lucas CAV injector pump there is a filter take off the 7/8 nut (i think or its a 15 /16") and the filter is under it, as well as that the back cover is aluminium and groves wear in them causing the pump to loose pressure . They also break the governor shaft..................... Hope the link works
GWS, Your right in the aspect of the opposing plungers..but as far as getting to them..well thats a different story..[DB manual] I have already contacted Ed and I think we have things worked-out.. STOCK> WAY KOOL INFORMATION..
I have been a tad unfair to the CAV pump they are extremely reliable if given clean diesel,they are widely used here and are a hugely tolerant pump,dirt fecks up the rear plate,and water the governor shaft. I usually put in an inline filter which does help. One other point the back plate is the same on the 3-4-6cyl pumps...........
Thank you for the manual stock! Can anyone tell me a good place to get parts for the lucas cav pump? I have one that is leaking fuel real bad around the throttle control shaft and I also broke off the threaded end of the control shaft so it looks like I will need a new shaft. I would like to try and do it myself on the machine. Thanks, chuck
The Yellow Pages, under DIESEL or I have a book that lists EVERY authorised injection shop in the world..Let me know if I can help.
Thank you for the down load site. I've looked it over and it's going to be a bigger job than I was counting on. I appreciate all the replys and help from each of you. Ed
I first want to thank everyone for your help with my '93 Case Super K Backhoe and CAV fuel injector pump. Can anyone tell me if the front gear cover plate on motor left off after you take bolts off or does it wrap around bottom shaft in front. I've been told several different ways to set the timing on Motor. Some say set it at 7 o'clock looking from rear of pump and another said 10 o'clock. Is there a timing mark on injection pump grear to match up with the other gears. Someone said to take off the plate behind starter and there are timing marks on that fly wheel. Just left me know what you think is the best way to go. Appreciate your help. Ed T
HMM! all I ever did was take the pump off leaving the gear in place, all the ones I removed had a woodruff key on the input shaft.just mark the pump casing to the engine timing cover to prevent having the pump advanced or retarded to much. if there is a nut on the rad side of the gear it probably a keyed shaft,then it may be a master spline shaft (old langer rover type.
I'm trying to set the timimg on my '93 Case super K backhoe. Which cylinder is Number 1.
Every inline engine I have worked on, the front cylinder was number one... And they count sequentially back... i.e. 2,3,4 etc... I am sure yours will be the same. HTH Dave