Hello, new poster here. We have a 580B with the shuttle stall problem. After reading quite a bit on here, we decided the shuttle pump/control valve was likely causing the problem. After pulling the shuttle cover plate, the suction tube screen was about 1/2 covered with gunk, as many people here have found. The pump shafts were wore quite a bit as the drive gear had excessive side to side motion. The gears appear worn slightly (approx O.D. = 1.700"), but could probably be salvaged. The housing and cover have light marring (less than 0.020") and could be resurfaced. This pump appears to be an aftermarket pump, with the bushings being split bushings and made of thin material. While the case-o-matic farm tractor pumps we have are thicker & solid bushings. After all that, my questions, has anybody been successful in rebuilding one of these shuttle pumps? Or has anyone heard of converting one of the case-o-matic farm tractor pumps for use in a 580B? Anybody willing to part with a used pump in fair condition? Thanks in advance.
I can't see how one could feasibly repair the damage done by the O.D. of a gear touching the housing of this pump. I have seen some of these somewhat worn and still working okay, but yours sounds worn-out. Possibly the aftermarket pumps are direct from China or India. There is a cavity in the torque tube, located just in front of the pump pick-up that is hard to clean out. Debris will accumulate in there and come back to cause problems. Phil
Case 580B shuttle pump Ok, we investigated the wear on the pump housing and gears yesterday. The housing sidewalls checked out with little to no significant wear. And the gears are worn, but still within acceptable range. The plan is: - resurface the housing where the side of the gear has wore - resurface the cover - bore the shaft holes in the housing and cover to accept the thicker case-o-matic bushings - make new shafts to original dimensions (minus snap ring groove) Any ideas about the surface hardness for original case pump shafts of this sort? I'd like to make it wear resistant as possible without specialty material processing.
My B recently got to where I was having to ride the shuttle pedal to keep trans pressure up and it didn't want to pull even in first gear. I pulled the shuttle pump/plate off and saw the suction line was totally plugged with trash. Pump shafts had some thrust but within acceptable range. Gears and shaft looked good also. Went ahead and re-sealed shuttle valve (spools were good), new TCH/filter and flushed torque converter case. There was a thick layer of old trash and grease in the case sump. To flush sump before installing the shuttle valve and plate, I filled the TC case with about 3-4 gallons of diesel and took a long wand on my air line and blew into the case through the diesel and let it bubble good for about 5 minutes and drained. Repeated this process 10 times until the case sump was clean. Also rebuilding some other things on it while its down so I haven't tested it yet
Hi. I am a total newbie and am glad I found this site. I bought an older Case 580-b and have a problem. I can be working my machine and it will be doing fine then it will refuse to move in forward or reverse. After sitting for a while it will start moving again but slowly and only at high rpm's. I hope it's a simple fix, it's a great machine. Any help would be greatly appreciated. thanks.
Big bass, I'm sure you read my last post about my 580B. Dont know if your machine is diesel or gas (mine is diesel), the power shuttle like mine, hydrostatic shuttle or mechanical shuttle but after reading about it, your machine is acting identical to what mine was doing. I removed the shuttle pump and suction line that drafts from the sump end (rear) of the torque converter case. There is a screen on the end of the line that can become plugged with trash and other foreign objects that find their way into the case over time. Causes can be dirty oil, irregular trans filter changes and so on. It appears that the previous owner of my machine also went in the tranny at one time and made the mistake of using way to much of the wrong kind of permetex on the pump plate and pump gasket. This permetex can find its way into the sump and plug up the suction line also as well as plug up oil passages in the shuttle valve. Going back together I used a thin coat of non-hardening black gasket sealer, just enough to keep the gaskets in place during installation. Tip: If you decide to tackle this job, there is quite alot of stuff you must remove in order to get to the shuttle and pump plate. Besides the obvious stuff, majors are the steering valve, numerous lines, brake linkage, throttle linkages, floor boards, shuttle pedal, valve cover and rocker assembly in order to remove the fuel tank as the pump is located directly under it. I also ended up cutting off the rear tank mount studs about an inch from the tank to ease tank removal. Once the tank was out, I removed all the mounting studs and went back with bolts. I would also recommend tearing the shuttle valve down for inspection and re-sealing it while the spools are out. Also be sure to check your rocker assembly for wear and adjustment. When going back with it, there is a drilled tower bolt that acts as an oiler bolt to keep the assembly lubed. On early model B's, this bolt must thread in the middle tower hole. On later model B's like mine, this bolt must thread in the rear hole. You will need to check your serial number to detirmine if your B is early or late. Regarding the shuttle valve, BE SURE to make a note where the detent ball and spring are under the valve while you are removing it. This detent ball and spring are located toward the front under the forward/reverse spool and can easily fall into the torque converter case while removing the valve. You will see the detent notches at teardown. I have since finished the job and the machine has plenty of trans pressure now and pulls strong once again in any gear. Good luck
Wow! Thanks Super L. I can't ask for any better than that. I will check the serial no's and see what year model I have. Sounds like a good project for the coming winter months. I'm pretty sure this is my problem after reading all the posts on this subject. And I'll need all the luck I can get, but I do love a challenge! Thanks again, Don.
In search of shuttle filter housing for 580b Hello, New to site, I've posted a few times about my 580b " shuttle problems" I can not seem to post other than replying to post. My problem is: recently bought a 1974 (8753134) 580bck. I am having shuttle problems. I changed fluid and upon changing filter found that there is no filter or filter housing(in front of radiator) cant fiqure out why someone would bypass filter?? Upon doing pressure test forward and nuetral have 250 psi and reverse has 0. Transmission pressure gauge is in green when in forward and neutral but in red when in reverse. Forward engages as it should. However, reverse I have to idle down or rev up to get it to engage sometimes having to wait 10 seconds to engage. Any suggestions?? Could this be the spool valve and just need running? I don't know previous history of tractor, I bought this thing at an auction. From my research the engine has been replaced it now has an A201G gas engine model # 2640600. the engine runs very strong. My issue is the shuttle. This machine has power shuttle with torque converter. I plan on changing fluid again but I would like to locate a filter housing before hand. Does anyone have an idea where I could find a used one. I will take all and any suggestions to get this old girl operating as it should. Thank-you in advance, Todd
Looking for suttle filter housing on 580b Hello, I just took grill of of my 580b to see if there was something I was overlooking. And sure enough there was. The input and output on bottom of radiator have been capped, so that explains why there is no filter housing. There is approx. a 4' piece of line with fins on it about 1 1/2" diameter that loops around and bypasses the filter housing. Any recommendations???? Maybe fabricating a filter housing and running lines as they are suppose to be. Called around looking for housing and was told new one is no longer available. I'll try salvage yards, I didn't want to pay full retail anyway. If anyone has suggestions I'm all ears. Thanks again, Todd
Clark, Welcome to the forum:drinkup I've attached a picture of the area in question(filter housing is marked). Sounds like your oil cooler in the radiator was bypassed. Not unusual for these to fail and leak oil into the coolant. Should not be hard to locate a used filter housing at a tractor wrecker, there would be no demand for one. Your test pressure seems set a little high. If you get a big pressure drop in reverse, it's probably in the shuttle assembly. Removing this unit is labor intensive and involves splitting the tractor. Hopefully you got a good deal on the backhoe, especially one with a gas motor. Phil
Case 580b shuttle pump Phil, Thankyou very much for the reply. I've learned so much from reading your posts. You mentioned if I need to do work on shuttle splitting the tractor is necessary. Is it less work splitting the tractor than going from the top of shuttle assembly? What should pressure test reading be? Is this adjustable and how? If the filter was bypassed because it was leaking oil into coolant,would that mean the radiator is shot? I guess I really need a service manual for this tractor just so doggone expensive. Is there used service manuals available? I paid 1500.00 for tractor but has no backhoe, just front end loader. Thought it would work great around farm? Not so sure now. Just ordered packing for loader cylinder that's leaking. Engine starts right up and seems strong. Is the 201 c.i. Gas a decent engine? Again THANK-YOU for all the time and expertise you bring to this site. I'm quite sure everyone here will be hearing from me. I have soooooo many questions and hopefully once I learn some of this I will be able to give it back. Have a great day and thanks again Todd
Hello, I am also new to this site and I also can not start a new post I can only reply?. I have a 1966 Case 530CK Industrial diesel and I am also having shuttle problems. The tractor will not move at all? I bought this tractor this way and I though it would be a good project. Is the 580's similar to the 530's? do you half to pull out the pump to get the the line? and also do I half to split the tractor to get to it? This tractor has a loader so I would rather not split it. Thanks, Coyote
Clark, I have never heard of any problems with the Case gas engines used in backhoes, but they are rare around here. To remove the shuttle assembly, the tractor has to be split. To access the shuttle pump, the large adapter plate(under the fuel tank), has to be removed. I usually split the tractor, then roll the front of the tractor ahead out from under the fuel tank. This allows a pump/pick-up tube inspection, and removal of the shuttle clutch assembly also. Some have done it the other way, by removing the transaxle, after removing the backhoe attachment. I believe the clutch pressure is set 165-195 psi, at the port used for the dash gauge. Not sure as my manual is out in the shop. This pressure is adjusted by adding or removing shims at a valve located beside the selector valve. Your radiator could be replaced or a separate cooler added. Keep in mind that you need a cooler rated the correct pressure. The filter assembly is separate unit from the cooler. Are the steel lines from the shuttle valve assembly still there? Phil Burns, Welcome to the forum:drinkup I believe you need 5 posts before you can start a thread. I am not sure of the differences between the 530 and 580 shuttle, there are some. I'm assuming you want to check your pump pick-up tube screen, then yes the large cover should be removed from the torque tube. Phil
Case 580b shuttle Phil, WOW! it sounds like you've worked on at least one other 580b haha! Thanks again for all of your insite. Yes the steel lines are there however they just make a complete loop infront of the radiator. I took your advise and called around to the salvage yards yesterday. I've located A few filter housings and bracket. I also went to pick up the packing for my Loader cylinder yesterday and bought a external screw in replacement filter And assembly. I am planning on mounting this next to the shuttle valve assembly this way at least my fluid will pass through a filter. In the mean time I need to figure out if my radiator is shot or if the original filter housing was damaged and just bypassed because they could not Find a replacement filter Housing? Any suggestions on checking the radiator? I would like to be sure Radiator is not taking on oil before I purchase the original filter assembly.like I said in previous post the ports on bottom of Radiator have a plug Cap in them. Ive found one place That will sell me the lines and filter Assembly for 150.00 plus shipping. Does this sound about right? Or would I be better off to install a heavy duty RV cooler instead Of going back to original. The radiator Seems fine just the little bit of time that I've run the tractor. I see no leaks And it stays Full. Thanks Again! Welcome aboard Burns! This is by far the best site I've found for this kind o info! Todd
Thanks For the info, I will tear in to her today. Thanks, Coyote
Clark, I would only consider using the original filter assembly. It's rated for the pressure used in this part of system, which may reach 500psi on occasion, at least that's what the pump relief is set at, as I recall. It's not uncommon to have the original cooler bypassed in these radiators, I would guess that some yahoo took the filter out at the same time. I bought a CK once that had no oil cooler. Probably okay for intermittent operation. I have seen aftermarket coolers added to many CK's and B's. Phil
Case 580b shuttle pump Phil, Thanks for the info, I will go ahead and order that used filter housing. Just got loader cylinder back on. Draining all if the old nasty hydraulic fluid before refilling and cycling. Then I will change shuttle fluid again. I'll keep you posted! Thanks again Todd
I've been reading this forum for a while. I have a lot of respect for the knowledge in Phil's head! I too have a case 580B with a shuttle problem that has been getting worse for a few years now. pressure on the trans gauge typically dropped to the red after 40 minutes use,but if driven with a light foot while loading the trans would last quite some time. I would let it cool then back in business.I tried to borrow a bore scope this week but it was broken weeks ago. The cooler lines from the valve body to the front filter and rad, scream with vibration (not normal) and I have flushed the system twice before. I was hoping to find a plugged filter hanging from the trans/converter pump causing cavitation.. Not sure if the clutch seals are worn enough to be the issue. It wont move more than 100 ft after a 15 min warm up now. typically, if it revs up and stops movement, I shut it off,wait a minute and refire it. off I go for a few more minutes. Its a 1975 Diesel model. I am a Class A tech ,driveline specialist and trans builder, but I am most familiar with cars and trucks! I've been all through the rear end of the machine but never had the torque tube apart. I have the parts manuals and I see its a very simple build other than possible case machining, no problem. Any advise or help diagnosing exactly what is causing the pressure loss would be great.Should I pull the valvebody and cover or pull the torquetube complete? thanks.
Ron, I think if it were mine I would take the adapter plate off first. Finding no clear cause, splitting the tractor would follow, and would be a little easier with the tank removed. Buzzing problem, usually only noticed when cold for a minute or 2, might be an air leak at the shuttle pump seals, aggravated by a partially plugged pump intake screen, or the wrong oil type. The pick-up tube may be leaking air at the gasket or at the weld. The pump should be checked at this time for debris under the relief valve, and wear in the pump itself. It's best to replace the shuttle valve gaskets when you are at that point. The adapter plate is much easier to lift off when the valve is removed. The 2 upper valve gaskets must be matched to the machine serial#, as there are early and late gaskets. Converter valve should be checked for free movement. Phil
thanks for the advice Phil. I am going through my Case original parts manual diagrams and writing down part #s for repair. A bore scope is showing up tomorrow from an engineer buddy. Want to see down that case just before i pull the tank and cover plate off! that buzzing noise and severe vibe in the cooler pipes is nasty. Reminds me of a power steering pump with air in it times 100! Can't wait to see whats going on. Regarding fluid, Case TDH is what I use. Have used another traction hydraulic fluid from an automotive supplier and wasn't sure if it was better or worse, good deal though. whats your opinion on fluid type for shuttle? thanks, Ron.
Ron, Book calls for TCH fluid. I do not know what difference there is between the TDH and TCH fluids, I've been meaning to check into it. I'm sure others on the forum can help with that. I have an old CK which has that buzzing sound for a minute every cool morning, and after having resealing the shuttle, it was really bugging me. So I changed the shuttle oil I have always used (TDH), it's cheap, and put in ATF. Someone else had done this on the forum, to help alleviate sluggishness, when cold outside, as all BCK's are known for. I suppose the oil is about a 75/25 mix now, as I could not drain the converter. Great to try this on your own machine, anyway it worked, stopped the buzzing, so I think the change in viscosity may have helped. I had previously replaced the 2 seals under the shuttle pump with large o-rings from my metric kit. The correct sealing rings from Case are no longer available, they look like garden hose washers. I likely will never find out where the air leak was. One thing to check on these machines is the routing of the steel lines, along the hood and past the radiator, great place to rub and vibrate. Phil
580B Shuttle problem Hey Phil, Got myself a scope to see inside the case. Unfortunately the end is larger than the last one I was using. It will fit in the fill hole of the torque tube but can't travel far enough to see the filter for the shuttle pump.I'm looking into an extension for it. When draining both ends of the housing, I keep getting too much moisture coming out. Lots of creamy oil before the clear Case fluid runs out. I've decided to flush the hell out of it with ATF fluid, several times and then flush out the lines and replace the filter again, I will see how much this helps before pulling the valve body, plate and pump out. Have you ever drilled a torque converter to help flush/drain a trans? Its a common practice in our automotive trade. You can drill through the front drain hole or timing hole, tap and install a tapered plug or bolt with loctite. Waddaya think of that idea? Would really clean up the fluid and moisture problem! Thanks again for all the info....I'm enjoying the mass amounts of knowledge I'm getting from this site. Ron.
Ron, You sound like an innovative individual. My feeling on the milky oil is that with an oil change or 2, you are getting most of it out, unless it's getting back into the compartment with every rain shower. A check at the drain plugs may reveal clean water, after the machine has set outside for a while. It may not be cavitation you have, usually more of a pulsing sound to it. Once working, the hot oil will out-gas any remaining moisture over time, but in the interim, of course, it's hard on machined surfaces. I've never heard of a B oil cooler leaking engine coolant back into the shuttle oil, and likely you would recognize it in the oil as you start to drain. However oil coolers have been known to leak one way and not another, despite what seems logical. The next machine I get, that I suspect has a plugged pump screen, I'm going to drill and thread for a pipe plug, maybe a 3/4", not sure. This should allow the area under the screen to be flushed(note debris in pic), possibly allowing the screen to be cleaned somewhat, by you and future owners. Not recommending this but I will try almost anything to learn. The bottom of the screen is about 1/2"- 5/8" above the floor of the torque tube. Just to the right of one of the 'blue' plugs, sealing the openings to torque converter, is the opening the pump pic-up tube uses to reach the bottom. Here are some reference pics. The shuttle assembly has been removed so you can see the countershaft and gears, as well as the end of the pick-up tube. Phil
thanks so much for for effort you give in helping out, these pics are a huge help. I am willing to split the tractor if I have to but I like to use my head first! Plus my back isn't what it used to be. Regarding the rain shower comment. I thought I was loosing my mind when i saw fresh drinking water come out of there once after it rained. About 3/4 litre! how does it get in? I even tried hosing the trans and looked for leaks. Is it pure condensation? or is there another way in? If it is condensation........then why not put a shut off valve on the vent when parked for some time, then open it when in operating season. what are your thoughts on the clear water? Can I access the screen through the back fill hole a long extension on the scope? You've given me so much help that if you are ever up here in the Kawartha Lakes, I owe you a boat ride,snowmobile ride, or a hell of a good meal! Ron.
was it the shuttle last night with scope extension and all through the case. got a good look at all but the screen on the end of the pick up tube. just cant seem to bend the thing the right way. corners of case have that milky oil all over showing the severe condensation issue. No clutch debris anywhere or signs of wear or damage that I typically see in an auto trans. Went up and down the tube from 2 bolts at top to close to bottom of it. I'm going to drill the bottom today and go through there for a better view of the screen. Have cool picks of the scope on my Blackberry. Trying to figure out how to post them for you. Ron.
580B Shuttle I was able to drill a hole and tap for a 3/4 pipe thread directly under the filter screen for the shuttle pump. Not easy to do a thread that size in that cast! A 3/4 pipe plug fit right in after, very nice. The screen was covered in black, gray and milky stuff. I suppose the parts can be described as rubber bit, some metallic, black paste, oily condensation. I was able to clean it very well and flush the housing now that I have 2 holes. Lots of parts cleaner and air pressure got it done. I pulled the cooler lines off the top of the valve body and flushed them through to the filter housing by the rad. Cleaned it right out and installed a new filter.I filled the shuttle back up with 2/3 ATF and 1/3 TCH from Case. The tractor fired right up and after a 5 min warm up,the buzzing and vibe of before was completely gone! the shuttle pressure was higher than before,in the green, the shuttle hooked right up in both forward and reverse. has never worked this well. Has a very crisp engagement. I ran around the lot 5 min, then let her run for 20min at 1/2 throttle to get a good warm up while I went back to work. My son came in and I had him put 3 hours on it working it easy moving some gravel. then I told him to work it more aggressive in the the back loading wet soil. The machine eventually starts to slow down, meaning rpm gets higher and speed gets slower as fluid temp rises with the harder use, not abuse. A highest temp with my laser temp was 185 F at the fill hole.and at that point the speed was slow and too much rpm, this was 2nd gear. It has always done this when 2/3 or more throttle is used and loading heavy. A cool down helps, but what causes this? Torque slip is whats going on here but why? shuttle pressure doesn't seem to change. Clutches still engage well. Is it still moisture in the fluid boiling in the torque converter? Does the converter have a bit of air in it that heats up and causes the slippage? I gotta know whats up with this! Too many people here complain of the same symptoms. Any idea Phil? Anybody? I have some great pics of what i've done on my Blackberry. I will put them on as soon as I figure out how to post them. I know how to e-mail them so I can get the kids to help with this! I am going to flush the shuttle again to get rid of moisture. Hope that helps. Ron.
I must add that Phil's pics were extremely helpfull here. thanks so much for the help again and I hope my info will again help someone else. Will send my pics soon. Ron.
Ron, Condensation takes a very long time to accumulate. I think you have a leak allowing rain water in. If the vent is in good condition, it should be okay. Can you garage the machine? The shuttle cover gasket ,at the back where the fill plug is, should be checked. The adapter plate gasket usually seals very well, but not always. The torque tube to engine gasket, and the starter gasket will usually leak oil if they are not sealing, but all things are possible. Easy to check the starter gasket anyway. Melting snow is worse in my opinion than rain, for penetrating certain joints. The 580B in my opinion has a somewhat inefficient torque converter. This may be the design of the drive supporting it, not sure, but it is very noticeable compared to a 580C which uses a different unit. Flogging a B or earlier CK up a steep hill behind my house, in first gear, is normal. Drive up the same hill with a 580C or later model and it does it less than 1/2 throttle with ease. It was a complaint of some when the torque drive models came out when new, along with the sluggish when cold, problem. Loading and moving dirt short distances is best done in first gear in my opinion. Using 2nd gear on a B, is best for traveling 100' or more on firm ground only. It would be interesting to monitor your converter charge pressure as the oil in the compartment gets warm. Shuttle clutch assembly charge/lubrication oil gets priority over the converter, I think. You definitely had the shuttle oil warmed up. I have never been able to find the temperature, at which the sensor located on top of the converter pressure regulator valve, turns the dash 'hot' light on. As for water contaminated oil causing converter inefficiency(cavitation), yes that is possible I believe; possibly as would the lack of converter charge pressure. Phil
is there a test port for the converter charge pressure? the converter works so well up to the 140F point that when it starts to slip it is frustrating. must be something going on in there. can i test the converter charge pressure? it is different then the transmission pressure? im going to look in my parts manual and see if there is a separate valve to control this.
I'm not too knowledgeable on converter problems. You will have to get advice from others or research it. Check this thread out, top of first picture is the pressure test and all the info is in the thread that you need. The test port is a pipe plug beside the temperature sensor. By the way I would appreciate the distance from the vertical outside face of the torque tube, to the center of the hole(intake tube), that you drilled. Phil
I will get that distance for you, I am going to flush the tube again. It is approx 1/2 in from bottom of inside housing, just fit your finger between the filter and bottom but I will give exact measure. Had a large drill and rather large bit operating there, had to dig a 4" hole in the ground to fit the drill! Then used a prybar under the hadle for up pressure to drill the hole. Safety glasses and welding gloves a must here! Will post pics and results asap. Too bad my shop is usually too busy to keep the machine inside but i'm considering a new building for toys and soon a dozer anyway! Ron.
I had a feeling you had what it takes to try that . I take it your hole was right on? Phil
I went and opened up the 3 drain holes I now have in the torque tube friday . Opened them just slightly to check fluid condition and just as I expected, there was about a hand full of creamy fluid from each hole. I suspect coming out of the converter.then my son took it to build a 4wheeler jump out back! I told him to work it fairly hard and watch temp. He came back 2 hours later and said its working better again than ever. the trans pressure gauge is creeping higher into the green! He said after he worked it hard it was a little sluggish in third coming back from the field but yesterday wouldn't pull 3rd. temp made it to 181F. I'm taking my first weekend off since labor day so I'll get back to the machine on monday. I've read through the pressure test link here and have trans gauges at the shop.. I'm goint test all the ports and post the results. i will drain the tube and measure the screen to case specs as well. I must say i'm confident enough to drive the loader up the highway to the fuel station next week! Talk to you then. Ron.
case 580B Trans shuttle fix Hey Phil, and all the rest of you with a sluggish 580B shuttle, here are pics of what i've done. The hole was drilled,(thanks to phil's pics and instructions), in the bottom of the torque tube housing right beneath the pump pick-up tube screen. The tube is 3/8" above the floor of the housing and the housing is 3/8" thick at that spot. So measuring up from the bottom, outside of the case, you get 3/4 " to bottom of screen, got it. Now, my hole is off a bit from center, so I'm giving measurement to exact center of tube. Looking at the 6 mount holes on the housing, the tube center is 3 1/2" exactly rear of back hole, left side of tractor(see pic). Hole is exactly in line with the left side mount holes (see pick). So if you draw a line straight through left side holes back to housing and measure 3 1/2" back from rear threaded hole, X marks the spot! I drilled and tapped for a 3/4 pipe plug, and that gave me lots of room to clean the screen and housing. The trans pressure gauge has been right at the line between red and green for the last 8-10 years! Now stays as in the pic! well into the green zone. I'm running 50% case TCH & 50% ATF fluid. After draining a bit of creamy fluid out the 3 holes, twice, no more moisture and the machine pulls better than I have ever seen, Converter doesn't seem to loose it's hold any more like it used to. Rpm would raise and speed would slow up. I will move a huge pile of broken block one night soon, if that doesn't kill it, I'll head down the highway and uphill to the fuel station! Winter is coming and i've got 3 acres of lot to move snow banks, normally have to take breaks every 40 minutes due to torque fading out.I am going to check pressures at ports on valve body as soon as the cars stop piling in the shop. Thanks again to all the help found here. Ron.
By the way, I'm dying to know what the pressures are at the valve body, the pump pressure, and torque charge pressure so I know what does work on this particular unit and now I can check them if a problem exists. Manuals are god but I find that actual pressure reading when working well is valuable info in my field of practice. I will post them here. Ron.
While i'm playing with the 580B, I'm leaking a bit of diesel from the pivot at the throttle lever and the pivot at the fuel cut lever on the injector pump. Any suggestion how to repair that? We have a local diesel doc but I'd like to do it myself, Thanks, Ron.
Ron, I have replaced the two 0-rings on that throttle shaft, while the pump is on the machine. As I recall the 2 screws that hold the shut-off lever to the shaft have to be removed, to give room for that portion of the throttle shaft to slide out towards the engine block. They are not easy to remove and may require shortening the tool(s) to do it. Leave the shut-off wire attached. Remove the pump cover to expose the clip. Cleanliness is important here. Pull or pry the clip off, as shown in the picture, noting that it needs to reinstalled the same way, and that it must still have the same tension or 'spring' to it, when installed. Nice to drain off some of the fuel in the pump so you can see what you are doing. Slide the shut-off portion of the shaft out towards the engine, you may have to disconnect #1 injector line at the injector to give just enough room. The other end of the shaft slides out easily. Sizing of the new rings is here is important, if the hole is worn, so there is a little resistance, . I think I used metric o-rings, not sure, but it's nice to have both Imperial and Metric kits on hand. Nice pictures of the plug-hole mod, good job. Phil
Holy crap Phil, You can pull a pic of anything outa that hat eh! Thanks again, I'll pull it apart as soon as I move that pile of broken blocks out back. Ron.
I have a 580b that was slow to move last year. my transmission gauge was barely in the green & would lose pressure dramatically when I flipped my lever into forward or reverse. I took off the shuttle cover & removed the tube connected to the cover. The screen was clogged with gasket material. I changed all the gaskets, vacuumed all the dirt out of the transmission case & added a shim to increase pressure. All was well until last week while pushing dirt I started losing pressure on my gauge & slipping. After several minutes my pressure goes to 0 when in forward or reverse & slow to get in the green when in neutral. Anybody have any idea what the problem is?
Welcome to the forum:drinkup You might have the same problem again. Debris not found the first time might have worked loose with the jarring movement of the machine. This can and does happen. There is a large cavity in front of the screen that is very hard to clean. There are several other possibilities when pressure suddenly drops. I have never seen a stuck shuttle pressure regulator valve, or damaged valve assembly gaskets, or an internally collapsed oil cooler hose, but all these things come to mind. I have seen debris under the pump relief valve. The manual does suggest changing the shuttle filter, so I'll add that to the list. By first thought, though, is the pump intake screen. Phil
Thanks for your helpful reply Phil, I guess I'll tow the machine to shelter to drill that big hole under the tube screen to clean it again. I don't want to take the cover off again as that was a day long job, sliding the fuel tank forward & steering back. I'm surprised it could be blocked again as I cleaned it well & spent a lot of time vacuuming the black paper pieces out a year ago.
shuttle pump bypass Is it possible to mount an after market pump and supply hydraulic oil to the shuttle valve through the lines going to and from the filter/cooler assembly? How does the shuttle pump supply and draw oil when working properly? My thoughts were to use existing lines(above) if possible or rework the 1 inch spacer plate to accept some fittings. Hoping to avoid future shuttle pump failures. Present problem is in consistent power to move. One moment, pressure is ok and tractor moves decently then nothing , then back on again. I was thinking that a torque converter or clutch problem would not show up as intermittent like that? So perhaps it is a oil supply problem. Meaning pump failure or suction inlet clogging? Any thoughts would be appreciated. First time owner and trouble shooting. Robin
580b Forgot to mention, front two oil cavities were filled with creamy coloured oil 3 and 9 litres respectively, Back cavity filled with slightly dirty but normal appearance oil, approximately 20 litres. Both dipsticks showed proper levels from top of reservoir Thanks.
Robin, I suppose it would be possible to supply the shuttle with an external pump. The difficult takes time, the impossible takes a little longer. The shuttle pump 'draws' oil from the bottom of the torque tube, by way of a pick-up tube, that is bolted to the bottom of the adapter plate. The pump supplies oil to the cooler lines through a passageway in the adapter plate. Intermittent operation as you describe might be clutch pedal adjustment (failing to completely return to it's 'engaged position' every time), or a sticky valve in the shuttle valve assembly. Does your dash pressure gauge show a drop in pressure when this problem occurs, and does it happen in both forward and reverse? The capacities sound close enough. The rear compartment contains the transmission/ differential oil, and is filled with 80-90 EP GL-4 gear oil. The shuttle compartment(2 drain plugs) is separate and uses Case TCH fluid, the level of which must be rechecked after 10 minutes of operation, if changed. Phil
Thanks Phil Unfortunately, the pressure gage was both damaged and disconnected when I purchased the unit. I do have a test gage that I could test port B C and D. Would this shed some light on things effectively? My first thoughts are to flush the cavities as well as possible by filling them with diesel and putting an air fitting on the drain plug and doing that numerous times. Then I was thinking of refilling everything and begin testing. Though, out of curiosity, if I did supply oil externally. Say a pickup/supply through the drain and pressure/outlet into the cooler lines would the valve be getting all the oil it needs or is there any source of oil going into the valve from below/internally? Thanks again Robin
Forgot to ask, What pressure and volume would I need on an external pump if I continued down that direction? Robin
intermittent loss of shuttle pressure After a week of trying to get my shuttle 580b to move, I started to tow out of the field & going up a hill the pressure suddenly returned in forward & it is back to normal. For a week the transmission pressure would take several minutes to get into the green & quickly go to zero if I put it in forward or reverse. Now it loses some pressure in forward/reverse but moves strongly. My tdh level is normal. I will drill the hole under the suction screen to check & clean that but am hesitant to take it far until I find what is causing this dramatic loss of pressure when I try to go ahead or back. Any ideas?
My transmission filter was changed recently when I had my pump out last year & cleaned the screen & bottom of the transmission case of gasket material. I took it out today to see if that made a difference but nothing changed until after the machine bounced around while being towed.
Could be something floating down in the bottom under the pump screen. Make sure your clutch pedal adjustment is correct, at 3.1" I believe, and that your pedal returns to it's stop, every time you take your foot off it. Phil
I was ready to drill the screen cleaning hole but while it was working well I drove down the hill & dug a ditch & moved earth around for an hour. It worked well but after a while started losing pressure on the gauge & would not move again. I walked home. Today I started it & it moved right away for 5 minutes only, then pressure goes to 0 immediately when put in forward or reverse. Pressure is very slow to get back in the green, same as last week, walked home again. ?The control valve moves back 3.1". I'm wondering if the converter regulator valve is wacky? Does anyone know where this is accessible to check?
The clutch pressure regulator valve is located between the selector valve and the valve actuated by the clutch pedal. I don't think it can be removed easily with the control valve assembly in place. It sounds like you have an oil supply problem; as the oil gets warm it can leak easily by many places, compounding the problem. The pressure drops to 0 when warm and in gear because the pump cannot supply enough volume. Check the distance with your foot off the clutch; you may have the dump valve leaking by a bit. The big problem with these shuttles was that sooner or later they have to come apart for an inspection. Did you check the oil cooler hoses for any obstruction? I would still question the condition of your pick-up tube screen. Phil
Thanks Phil You were right. I got it up the hill this morning & drilled the 7/8" hole below the screen & found more black paper bits that were clogging the screen. I drilled the hole exactly under the screen & my pilot hole(about 3/8" went too far right through the screen). I repaired the screen with a metal seive I cut up & pushed through the hole.I rinsed it out with a gallon of diesel & vacuumed all I could, filled it with tdh, changed the filter near the rad & it works great now, pressure in middle of gauge & does not drop when put in gear. I put in a 3/4" pipe thread plug. It sticks out of the hole 3/4 inch at least. I will replace with a similar plug with an allen head key as this standard plug might get caught on something & break the new threads. Thanks again for your good help! I'm relieved it works so well & it was fairly easy to drill the hole in the soft cast.
That gives me relief, it was starting to bug me. Something you can do for me is supply me the measurement, not the one from the front,as supplied earlier, but from the side face of the torque tube. Put a straightedge on the outside of the torque tube(left or drivers side), measure to the right, over to the center of the plug hole. I'll take a guess at 2 1/4". Let me know, thanks, Phil
The hole center is exactly3.5" in front of left hole in housing in a straight line back from that hole as in earlier posted pix . Anyone who drills there should be careful as the screen is very close to the bottom of the housing & it is easy to drill too far through the screen.
The hole center is 2" from flat side of drivers side torque tube.
Thanks Frechele, I'll see if I can get a fresh torque tube picture off my CK and post a picture will both measurements on it. Phil
Very little forward movement Hello DBAR here I am a new poster I have a 1968 580 CK with a leak in the bell housing area. If I pull the drain plug should there be fliuld in the bell housing?
Movement limited Hello DBAR here 1968 580CK fluid in the bell housing is my torque convertor seal leaking? Also I need to purchase a manual? Thanks DBAR
1968 580 ck Hello all DBAR here I need some guidence. I have fluid in the bell housing. does this mean there is a seal blown between the torque convertor and the pump? Also I need a case shop manual. Thanks DBAR
Well done frechele! Now we have 3 drain holes to help us keep the fluid clear of milky stuff and clean the screen as often as we like! I also believe that the mix of 50 percent TCH and 50 percent ATF fluid( DEXRON 3) is very effective, especially in the cold weather. I see many posts that a 580B has to warm up before you can move it. My 580B will move the second I start it now, even at -6 Celsius like the other day here in central Ontario. Just a squirt of ether and put her in forward and it will move. My machine has never operated that quick and that well. Good luck. Ron.
Pictures? Phil - I saw this post and it got me curious if this might be part of my problem as well. Do you have any pictures from when you split the tractor to get into the shuttle? Thanks, Chip
Pics
partial fix After cleaning sludge out of shuttle cavity and refilling it with new hydraulic oil our case 580B went forward and backwards quite well. Previously it did not. But I then separated the tractor just enough (1/2")to re gasket the seal between that cavity and the rear one with the gear oil in it. I resealed it and now the tractor seams to be stuck in forward. The column mounted gear selector does not seem to be causing any change in direction or even disengaging it. Stays in forward. the selector linkage is fine and the valve travels in and out well with movement. But nothing changes inside. Still stays in forward. Additional symptom. Can not change tranny gear while running because the gears keep turning. HELP PLEASE What might be the problem???
580B forward but no reverse I am sure hoping someone can share some experience with this tractor I recently purchased. After filling with diesel and bubbling air into it. Then refilling it with straight hydraulic oil the tractor ran good in both forward and reverse. Then I realized the rear seal was leaking like crazy. I drained it, separated it, resealed it and then refilled it again with straight hydraulic oil Problem now is I only have forward gear, the column shifter physically moves the valve but nothing changes inside and only forward is functional Any thought would be greatly appreciated. I am hoping to work again on it tomorrow. Thanks
Robin, Try taking the rear cover back off, as in post #62 second last pic. Note that this is a Rockwell shuttle shown, see if yours looks the same. Note that there is a 'notched drum' either side of the aluminum piston housing. The rear drum is 'forward' clutch pack. See if this drum has some end play(forward to reverse). See if you can wiggle it up and down. Curious if that drum has shifted to the rear a bit when you split the tractor and the forward most clutch disc has not slid back into the notches in that drum. Does your dash clutch gauge pressure drop, when you depress the clutch pedal? Just a guess at this point, I've got a cold and just got back from holidays so I'm a little out of it. Phil
Need help. I bought a 73 580B. All 3 plugs were opened and creamy white oil was drained including the hydraulics and power steering fluid. I cleaned and refill the differential with 85 140w. The 2 fwd plugs are filled with hydraulic fluid? One is the has a dip stick in front of the shifter and the other filler plug is by the starter (I believe for the torque converter). The fill plug near the starter has a screen at the top, fill it to the top? How do I get the converter flush out of the creamy oil?
Hi there also new to this site. I have a 580 super E that wont move. Found chunks of metal in the drain pan. pulled the shuttle/transmission and want to rebuild it. Does anybody have any pictures of a manual of how to do this. oh one more thing, where is a good spot to get parts. Thanks
I purchased the factory shop manual from case, best investment ever. Do the chunks of metal look like spring bits? or chips. I supported my rear frame and rolled the gearbox back with the axle, then gutted the shuttle from behind. (mind the shims on the output shaft) I found that most of the o-rings in the shuttle were nicked and that the springs on the clutch packs had disintegrated. Replaced both clutch packs and all the seals. Removed all the nicks in the shuttle with a wet stone before reassembling.
I think I fond the problem got it all apart and it looks like the stubs on the TC are sheared off. I think I need a new TC. I think I will also do a shuttle rebuild as well. What is the best spot for parts???????? Thanks
When I did mine, the dealer had all the parts in stock, the shuttle clutches were $400 each and all the seals and gaskets were another $100, then a whole lot of 5 gallon pails.
Like many others here... this is the number one issue I've been having with my 580B. I'd just like to thank Ron for taking 20 minutes out of his business day to yak on the phone with a relative newbie... explaining the ins and outs of this procedure. I have a problem with any of my vehicle transmissions, I know where I'm gonna go for service.
Hello everyone, New guy here, I have been lurking on the site for about three weeks now. I purchased a later 580b CK about two weeks ago that would not move. I knew the pump seemed good as when it was in neutral the pressures were good, but when in forward or reverse it dropped to zero. After reading that great deal of information here I gambled that the pump intake was plugged and could not get enough oil to build shuttle pressure. Good news is the gamble paid off!! This weekend I had assembled all the tools I needed to drill and tap the drain/clean-out under the pump intake and found about a full cup of trash, along with oil that looked like chocolate milk! I had to change the oil four times to get all the trash and milky oil out, flushing with diesel and then refilling and running a little in between changes. Now the unit pulls good, even in road gear. I worked it about two hours Sunday afternoon, pushing piles of broken concrete block on the property and it worked well. In short I want to thank Phil and Ron for all this information in a very big way, it is invaluable!! :notworthy:notworthy There is no way to get that trash out of the torque tube short of breaking the tractor without drilling this hole. Dave
hi new to site just bought a 580b ck backhoe and i was wondering if i can drain the transmission oil and flush it out with deisel as the oil is milky ?????
just doing a test
hi new to site just bought a 580b ck backhoe and i was wondering if i can drain the transmission oil and flush it out with deisel as the oil is milky ?????
just doing a test to get posts up
can some one reply to this post i just want to see if i can ask questions now ??
a2btransport, I see your posts, you should able to see them as well. As far as flushing the shuttle case, after drilling the aforementioned drain/cleanout hole and tapping for the plug, I fushed the torque tube / shuttle case with several gallons of diesel every time I changed the shuttle oil (four times so far). I WOULD NOT start the tractor with the diesel in in there!! HTH... Dave
thank you
thanks for that i pulled the scuck tube out hoping to find it all blocked up but previous owner has pulled the gauze off the end compleatly the tractor is slugish in foward and reverse so now i am spliting it to pull the clutch packs appart does any one know what to look for appart from worn out plates...... like oil gallairies etc.??? also looking at pulling out the converter and seeing whats inside anyone done that before ???? i will post pics up soon of the tractor comming appart and internal stuff aswell this fourm is so good im glad i found it while its appart i want to check everthing so any advice would be great thank you
thanks for that i pulled the scuck tube out hoping to find it all blocked up but previous owner has pulled the gauze off the end compleatly the tractor is slugish in foward and reverse so now i am spliting it to pull the clutch packs appart does any one know what to look for appart from worn out plates...... like oil gallairies etc.??? also looking at pulling out the converter and seeing whats inside anyone done that before ???? i will post pics up soon of the tractor comming appart and internal stuff aswell this fourm is so good im glad i found it while its appart i want to check everthing so any advice would be great thank you look foward to hering from you guys
If the suction tube screen has been removed I would disassemble and check the pump, as well as flush the lines to the filter. The removal of the screen indicates to me that someone had issues with foreign trash in the system before, and now they have spread it through the system, at least to the filter. I would make sure to install a new screen of some kind on that suction tube, that stops the big stuff before it gets to the pump. Just my 2c... HTH Dave
yea i will i have removed the trans box compleatly out and stripped it to a bare case i have found the foward and reverse piston in the clutch pack are worn and the clutch plates are too so ill be replacing them. i pulled thr converter appart and found nothing to be a concern tomorrow ill be washing the box out and blowing all the galleries out ill post pics up soon of the whole process oh and thank you for replying it makes the jod just that much easyer i also hpoe the pics will help people
can any one tell me how to put pics up on the site
All is revealed here -
I am looking forward to seeing the pics!! Dave
here are some pics
more pics
some more for now ill take more tomorrow if anyone wants a particular pic while i have it appart please let me know and ill do my best
thank you
a2btransport, Thanks for the pics!! What are you showing in last pic of post #87 and first pic of #88?? How much trash did you find in the case and system?? Those shuttle disks don't look all that worn from the pics... Dave
the pics are the piston housing inside where the ring goes its a bit blurey, and the housing has picked up and is worn ill take some better ones cause ive been told this is a mayjor cause of loss of power ,as far as the clutch plates go the close up pic is the new ones and the one fron a bit of distance is the old ones ill put more pics up soon
hi just wondering if anyone knows the running oil pressure to the oil cooler and filter at the front of the 580b backhoe???. the oil cooler on mine witch used to go through the bottom of the radiator has been bypassed straight to the filter housing so im assuming it was faulty i want to buy a aftermarket one and fit it to the front of the radiator, just want to make sure i get the right psi rating . i cant test mine at the moment cause the box is still out, waiting on parts
a2bt, The service manual does not show a hydraulic schematic, but in on of the testing sections for the shuttle in the back it shows to remove the cooler line and insert a flow / pressure meter. At the point it states the closed off pressure should the same as the test pressures for the pump, +/- 200 psi, but not to exceed 500 psi. So I assume the cooler has full pump pressure, on mine is around 210 psi in neutral and the clutch out. HTH Dave
thanks for that dwloop great help
Hi there, just bought my first backhoe, a case 580b. I'm a total greenhorn at running it and even more so at fixing it. It seemed to work fine in the yard in first gear, but today i drove it up the road abit, and it will bearly pull itself in 4th gear on level ground, 3rd is alittle better, but seems to be slipping or something on a slight grade. I believe it is power shuttle shift(told by seller but not sure). Could this be the suction screen plugged also? Pressure gauge in dash shows in the green. The guy I bought it from said he changed all the fluids and filters on the machine, and said he put ATF in tranny. Is ATF ok? I was worried torque converter was bad, could it be? Does this sound like an expensive fix? Any help or info would be greatly appreicated!!!
hi test= test=
I would not use ATF in the transaxle, 80/90 weight gear lube in that section. These units have enough issues with the ring and pinion without usingthe wrong lube. The shuttle unit is supposed to have HyTran oil in it, some have used a mixture of HyTran and ATF although I would not. If the pressure gauge stays in the green I would not think the pump intake is plugged. In the service manual there are several pressure tests on these units that diagnose the shuttle. HTH Dave
Dodgeman, If the level of the ATF in the shuttle is full, then it could be the ATF causing your problem. Personally i would drain it, and put in Hy-trans fluid and see how it does. I found that my 580b does not have a lot of power in 4th gear. But once it gets going it is fine. It definately doesn't have any uphill power in 4th. But that is what the lower gears are for. As for the fluids in the shuttle, and the transaxle as well, i learned on this forum that it is best to use Hy-trans fluid in both. It was said that that way if you get any internal leaks you won't contaminate one oil with the other. You said it works fine in 1st gear, you didn't say anything about 2nd gear. If it isn't slipping in those gears, then i would say the shuttle is probably ok. We need to keep in mind that these machines are old and need a lot of tlc. And we can't expect them to run like new. And from what i have learned they were not perfect when they were new. They had their flaws. Let us know how it goes. Maybe start a new thread so you are not hijacking this one. lol, Joe
I have to apologize Dodgeman. I just went back and found that you are a new member and probably not able to post new threads yet. :notworthy Welcome to the forum.
Thanks Dave and Joe for your advise, I believe the seller said the transaxle had what he called "tractor hydralic", Not sure if he meant TDH fluid or not, its a clear fluid. In the shuttle is ATF for sure though. My driveway is not steep and it will not go up it in 2nd gear unless really giving it the fuel, but when I get to the road I can put it in 2nd and it will go. And, If I were to push some loom I need to pretty well open the throttle in 1st to do so. I am new at these machines, but it dosen"t seem right. I don't have a Manual but must get one. Any idea how much Hytrans it should take, and would the filter be ok, it was changed recently? Worst case seniero, could it be the shuttle, and is that a big job? P.S. Thanks for the friendly welcome and advise guys!!!
Dodgeman, The owners manual puts the power shuttle reservoir at 16 qts, 15.1 liters. I can tell you from experience it takes several changes to get the oil completely flushed out, as there is a torque converter that holds some oil. The shuttle is really like an automatic transmission but with a manual shift that cannot be changed on the run. So think about your car starting out in second or third gear with no first to get it going. If I put in second or third it takes some throttle to get moving and my 580B pulls about as good as any I have seen in the past. After moving mine will pull a fairly good hill in third at speed, but does slow down on long grades. The ATF is considerably thiner viscosity than the TCH (Now HyTran), that will effect the torque converter's efficiency quite a bit IMHO... The filter is in front of the radiator, the housing has four bolts on top of it, a drain on the bottom. I would drain and flush the shuttle tube several times if needed, then change the filter at the last change. The shuttle filter is Wix number 51518... BTW, the trans-axle holds 17 qts, 16.1 liters if you want to change it back to the 90 wt that should be in it. Welcome to the forum, and trying to keep one of these old girls running... Dave
Dwloop, What you just said about the volume of the shuttle fluid is a lot better than i understood before. I saw right here on this forum somewhere, memory escapes me, that the shuttle holds 10 gallons! 4 gallons sounds more plausible since i had to fill the shuttle on mine when i first got it, and that is just about how much it took. But i was thinking that since i read where it takes that much, that the shuttle still had maybe 6 gallons in it. Your account of 16 quarts must be right if you are reading it from the book. I don't have one. :Banghead But does that count the amount the torque converter holds? I know it can't hold no 6 gallons! That would have to be one humungus torque converter.
ijoker, The only way one could come close to 10 gallons would be to count the shuttle and trans-axle together. Although the converter holds some oil, it does not stay completely full after shutdown for several minutes in my experience. The manual states to check the shuttle oil after running the engine for several minutes to charge the system, shutdown then immediately check the oil level. After a period of shutdown the oil will drainback some and the level will rise on the dipstick quite a bit above the full mark. When I changed mine several times earlier this year, I would drain and then measure out exactly four gallons to refill the shuttle. The dipstick would read way high above full until restart and run for a few minutes. I believe that is one issue that some may have with this unit is that they check the shuttle level when cold and therefore run the shuttle oil level too low for good operation. Without a operators manual you wouldn't know that little tidbit.... HTH Dave
Yeah, thanks for that Dave. I did just what you said. I filled it to the full mark while it was sitting cold. The machine has been running fine, but now that i know, i am going to have to do go back and check like you said. I mean, if you think about it, it is just like a automatic transmission on a vehicle. Those you are supposed to check with the transmission warmed up, and the engine running. I suppose a guy could do it that way, couldn't he? :beatsme I really need to get some books. I just haven't really looked yet because money is tight with being unemployed. I am getting closer to just bucking up and doing it. They sure would be handy. Cheers, Joe
I'll make sure to change out the ATF for HyTrans for sure then. I don't have a Case dealer nearby and I called a couple of places today to try and get Hytrans. They all have something they are calling "the same thing". But since I really don't know and really want this to fix the problem, I will make sure to get the real thing. I have bit the bullet and ordered a manual on-line. I plan to get the AFT flushed out and changed as soon as possible, maybe even this weekend Thanks for the info yet again guys, I will be sure and keep you posted on the progess, my fingers are crossed(well, they will be)..... Jason
Dodgeman, If they are telling you that they have the same thing as Hy-trans they might be talking about regular tractor fluid. That is basically the same thing. If you are talking to reputable people that know their oils, they usually won't steer you wrong. Be careful though because you could end up spending more money than you need to. Last bucket of Hy-trans I bought was $42.00. I got it at a local oil company. It turns out they are cheaper than anybody else. Shopping around pays off. Don't be too hasty. Definately don't buy it at a parts store, you will end up paying too much. Been there. Done that. $94.00. OUCH! :Banghead Likewise i have heard that case oils are high as well. I wouldn't consider that if i could avoid it. If you find something that says transmission/hydralic fluid, that is the same thing as Hy-trans. It is a universal fluid. You can use it for your hydralics as well. Happy hunting! Joe
Dodgeman, As Joe stated, find a quality replacement that is speced the same as HyTran (MS-1204 - MS-1210 I believe). In SE Missouri where I have mine, the Orscheln Farm and Home stores sell a good product that is rated. Stay far away from the '303' oils that some sell, they are not what you need. Here is a link to what I use Orscheln Hy - Tran Oil HTH Dave
Dave, I'm not sure what you mean by 303 oils, can you clearify? Thanks
Dodgeman, It is a standard for a tractor hydraulic oil sold at many auto and farm stores. It is not formulated for wet clutches and brakes. HTH Dave
Dave, Thanks so much, yet again. I was planning to get fluid for my "b" tomorrow, and hopefully I can come across the right stuff. I have the shuttle draining as we speak. I just hope this will help it move. Thanks Jason
hi everyone! my 580 B wouldnt move and i drained both drain-plugs underneath the torque tube.dirty nasty hyda/transmissin fluid came out-about three quarts- my service manual says sytem take 4 gallons!or 16qts---------hmmmm-so I crossed my fingers and added one gallon of dextonlll ATF and two gallons of hydra/transmission fluid- and tried to pull out of a muddy field where i had been stuck, i had to pinch myself after i reached safe ground, I felt like I was driving a new tractor- so much smooth power- every thing i learned was from this forum-i havent added the additional gallon, have to remember the filter,lines,and cooler may indeed hold close to a gallon and I dont want to blow any lines or seals!overfilling any system can cause so many problems-hope this helps guys!
p.s. there are two plugs near the shifter on my 580 B- the one behind the shift stick is for the gear oil 90 w-80w and holds 17 qts.its the transmission and differential housing-the metal fill plug in front of the shifter is under a steel plate- thats the fill plug for the torque tube-it holds 16 qts of tractor HY_tran fluid- some people have used a mix of ATF fluid at 25% and 75% Hy-Trans to help improve sluggish response especially in cold weather-
Truckerx, That is a good looking B!! As far as the Dextron mix, I prefer to use what the JI Case company intended for the shuttle to run. :my2c I have had no issues with cold operation yet. I am glad you got yours running, it is very frustrating to have one not pulling, I know from experience. BTW: The seat is UNDER the ROPS, not on top!! Dave
Hey guys, Just wanted to let you know that I got the new oil put in her, and there is no noticable difference. Back to square one I guess. Should I check the screen on the suction tube for the shuttle pump? or is there a way to test it? My gauge in the dash run in the green, and drops off when you push the clutch. Where should I start? Thanks
Dodgeman, The pressure should drop when you push in the 'Clutch'. It is not actually a clutch but a pressure dump valve for the shuttle. What mine did with a plugged pickup was it would hold good pressure with the shuttle lever in neutral, but as soon as I put the shuttle in forward or reverse the pressure would drop to almost nothing. That was due to the pump not being able to keep up with the flow demand of the shuttle pack pistons. Once the pickup tube was cleaned and the trash removed the presure stays at above 200 PSI in both forward and reverse. Test that and see if it holds in neutral, but drops pressure in forward or reverse. If it holds in the green in gear, it is bad news I am afraid... I have a full service manual for the 580b (Real original paper copy) that has the diagnostic pressure tests for the shuttle, to perform these you need a hand held gauge and hose assembly to connect to various ports. Let me know if I can help you in any way... HTH Dave
Hey dave, I did just get a manual online on a cd. It has a pressure test proceedure for the shuttle pump. I plan to get the various fittings and hoses need to test it, when i do I will start a new thread. I might be awhile though(building a house). I'll get at it as soon as I can and post the results for your diagnoses. Thanks again
Good luck Dodgeman!! With both the house and the shuttle... Dave
Phil, thx for all the info,I can't find U'r pic's with the TWO measurements for drilling the cleaning hole for the screen. Any help..??Did U post them..? My trouble is loss of pw'r in both foward and reverse, also it's intermittent, it seems to catch while playing w/ the shuttle control handle. Should I check the pressures: one on the valve plate and the 2nd one is where ?? Thx G ryan
Welcome to the forum g ryan! Unfortunately for us, Phil is AWOL. Someone asked the same question about the drilling a little while ago, here is the thread - HeavyEquipmentForums Keep looking here using the search feature & you will find everything you need to know - LOTS of 580B shuttle info Your intermittent problem could be adjustment - the same above thread deals with it.
case 580b shuttle pump Ron,read U'r posts w/ Phil's..Big Help. This is what I'm playing with: Loss of power like Ur's but my dash gauge is in the Green and still minimum power in foward and rev. I tested the pressure @ the shuttle valve cover (removed the small pipe plug and installed a gauge) and measured 25 psi.. Was that correct place to test ??? but my ??? is How can it be in the green on the dash gauge and measure 25psi at the spool ?? any help.. G ryan
Seems like your reading convertor or lube pressure - heres some help from service manual
580b shuttle shift problem con't Alrman, thx for the pic's and U're right, I did have the wrong port for clutch pressure.....My dash gauge stays in the Green even w/ loss of power in f/r.....U said that could be a REAL problem, what did U mean..?? GR
Not sure when I actually said that......... But, if you have pressure & hardly any drive, it could mean you have no friction material left on fwd plates in clutch pack. Have you done the tests to actually see fwd & rev pressure? Checked dump valve adjustment / pressure? - What were the results?
Alrman, Haven't checked the pressures yet but will soon then..I'll send results...But this low power is in both F/Rev. makes me think flow problems.....GR
good post!
Great thread, Posting to get post count up and also so I have the thread marked. I just purchased a 580B Yesterday and it's running great I think. Previous owner stated he had rebuilt the pump and transmission. He seemed like a stand up guy so I think I got a decent deal. I do have some fluid leaks I'll have to locate and fix. My B runs decent but besides the leaks the fuel gauge does not work. Do these "B's" have a glow plug or something. I start it by turning the switch to the "on run position" and hitting the starter button. It' takes some time to start though. I heard this is worse in cold weather. If I turn the switch all the way over to the start position and hit the button..nothing happens. Seems it almost run's the battery down before it starts. Runs great once it's purring. it needs paint for sure. I paid 4800.00 I think that was a great price for a tractor that runs, digs and lifts. The only issues are the leaks.
Hi Deltl1ks, sounds like U got a decent buy...no, there is no glow plug but i believe there is an oil sump heater, probally need to buy a new one as they burn out, at least mine has..just shoot a blast of starting fluid down the air intake just prior to cranking and U should be good to go in cold weather. U'r leaks can be repaired but time and money is required....U can buy kits (cylinder) from CASE but shop the net first, also U'll need a tool for the cylinder end and some heat.They're tough to break lose. I suggest U buy the shop manual, it's well worth it..GR
Check me and see if I got this right. I got a brand new 59/64th drill bit and a new 3/4 npt pipe tap . Now I measure 3 1/2 inches back from the back edge of the hole and X marks the spot . I am going to put a stop on the bit so as to not hit the screen. They say measure twice and saw once in this case I think measure three times and drill once. What do you think? Thanks for any reply from jerrywf
I did 3.5 inches and 3 would have been better. I'll try to attach a picture. You won't believe the stuff you're going to pick off that screen. If your oil is contaminated you're going to use lots of oil (or diesel) whatever in order to get it clean. Even with cranking it and idling for a few seconds with the filter line off and running the old stuff through the lines and into a bucket till it runs clean you will still need to fill and dump the housing a few times till you get clean oil. Mike Powell River HD Mechanic
Mike, wow. what I found in the screen was about what I expected besides a bunch of black crap the was a lot of blue silicone gasket sealer, complete clogged up. Drilled the hole as per the info you provided and hit dead center. Used a piece of 3/4 pvc pipe as a stop/gauge on the 59/64th bit. Will finish or work at cleaning out the crud Saturday morning . Don't know if this will fix the problem but sure looks like it will. I want to thank you and all the guys that helped with info. This is sure a great bunch of guys, What a great forum. Thank you from Jerrywf .
pac11adp I got her going today , trans/shuttle shift works fine so far. Got tired of flushing with diesel fuel and put the garden hose in the box and flushed with water. got a hand full of crud out mostly paint and blue gasket sealer. seems to work fine for now, but expect to have to clean out again. I am trying to find out what goes in the diff. and gear box The rear stick is touching nothing. Also have a right steering cylinder leaking ,Got to find out how to take it apart. Again Thanks to your self and every one that helped with Info jerrywf
Powell river guy with 580b with same problem Hey mike I have a 74 580b .my case backhoe won't go forward or backwards,but when I put it up on its stabilizers the wheels will go forward or reverse. Do you think I have the same problem as you and did drilling and cleaning the filter help your machine. Brian Powell river bc Canada
Powell river guy with 580b with same problem Hey mike or forum I have a 74 580b .my case backhoe won't go forward or backwards,but when I put it up on its stabilizers the wheels will go forward or reverse. Do you think I have the same problem as you and did drilling and cleaning the filter help your machine. Brian Powell river bc Canada
Brian, what's the history of the machine... did it just stop one day or has it been getting worse? What does the oil look like? If it's all good I'd sure take a look at the "disconnect linkage" and it's measurements found earlier in this thread around post 51. You can verify all this with the clutch pressure gauge reading too low. I firmly believe that every one of these machines with symptoms or not (yet) they should be drilled in that spot and have the screen cleaned out. Mike
Hello mike thanks for the comeback.the machine sat for around 8 years .i change the filter at the radiator and changes the fluid in shuttle . When I put the machine up on stabilizers the maching goes into forward and reverse ,but when it's on the it's wheels it tries to go forward and backwards.some times it grabs and works for a very short time .brian
Did it work for you? I will be doing it soon.
Great. You may want to clean the screen off again after you've ran it for a few hours. Have a look at the "clean" oil you just drained and decide if you're going to pour it back in or change it again.
Hey super I have a 580 b old one I need to know where to drill the hole to clean out bottom of the strainer but I need a picture of 8t and measurements to know where I'm going with this Thanks
Hi Phil do you have a picture and measurements of where I drill out the hole to get to the pick up tube Thanks
Hi Phil, would you know the exact location to drill taper plug to blow out screen tube?
Is that you Alex? Did phil send you a picture?
You should read the whole 10 pages of this thread. I posted photos and measurements on the last page in 2013. Mike.
Unfortunately Phil has not posted anything since December of 2010. I keep hoping he will show up again but I have a bad feeling that he won't. He was / is a true Case expert.
Yes it's me no photos yet
Hello new to this forum. I have a case 580bck. Did the tap and clean of intake screen. Found lots of debris. Still low torque converter pressure. pulled control valve. Pressure regulators for clutch and torque converter were stuck. Having trouble finding parts especially the gaskets for the shuttle valve any advise? Dave
Thanks for the great info. I have read the entire post, twice! I have a newly acquired 580b diesel with the shuttle. It hardly moves in forward or reverse warm or cold. The shuttle fluid looked to have water in it, so I changed it (without draining the torque conveter) it didn't help. I used tch and Trans fluid at 50/50, as I had it, and am likey changing it again soon to get more water out. I was reading about drilling and cleaning the screen, but have a question. Could a plugged screen be a problem as the pressure is in the green when in forward or reverse. My understanding is that with a plugged screen, the pressure will show low. I figure the torque converter or clutch plates. Plates less likely as forward and reverse are the same. I'm also thinking about a second fluid change as I'm sure there is still some water in it. Thanks for any help.
Drill the hole and clean the screen. Otherwise you will never know the condition of it. Sooner or later you will be doing it anyway.
I would check the pressure relief for the torque converter and the clutch and the setting distance for the clutch spool. Also add more fluid the level needs to be checkled with the engine hot.
Drilling an tapping the pan to clean the screen is a good idea mine was covered in old gasket material. Had to make a new screen from a metal kitchen strainer . When I drilled the hole the pilot when through the screen
Thanks. I'll pick up the tap and drill it as soon as get back there. Would the pressure guage not drop if the screen was restricted? Is there information, or a post that someone can point me toward to check the pressure relief for the tc? Thanks again!
The pressure regulator for the tc is on the right side of the spool assembly. Two bolts hold in down it is also where the pressure test port is small plug on the housing. My was acting like yours , cleaning the screen helped some took appart the spool assembly and found the pressure regulator was stuck open. Also the spool on the left dumps the pressure to the cluck plates if it's not adjusted correctly the clutch slips. 3.1 inches front the center of the first bolt to the center of the bolt on the spool. The clutch petal has a cam bolt the 1 inch bolt changes the distance.
For those of you looking for new "No longer available" A7075 Gasket - pump to adapter seals, Ref. 51 on the parts list, the friendly folks over at Coleman Equipment crossed that number to 51200848-198 and they work fine!! Also, I just finished cleaning the screen on the bottom of the oil suction tube (A38034) by going in from the top without removing the tank and I'll say right up front it was a bear. I considered coming in from the bottom by drilling and plugging but did not have the equipment to do so. Probably a good thing because when I did finally get the screen out it was so plugged with small particles that the only way it could have been cleaned was by removing it. Tiny pieces of gasket material were stuck in almost every hole. None rinsed out. Some blew out with air but most had to be physically picked out or poked through and rinsed in a bucket of solvent. Besides removing all the plumbing above the control valve/adapter plate/Housing assembly you'll have to loosen the steering column by removing the four bolts holding it at the bottom and with a ratchet strap or equivalent hoist it up and back enough so the adapter plate will clear. You'll also have to remove the two studs holding the tank to the column casting plus misc. linkages and lines that are in the way. I'm not going to try to itemize but there's a whole mess of stuff you have to work around. I made a lot of work for myself by removing things that might not have needed to go. I do not profess to be any kind of expert. You're going to have to make some of these discoveries on your own. Also, my 580B might not be exactly like yours since previous owner(s) obviously had it apart and back together before me. I did not disconnect the power steering as there was enough flex in the lines to get it out of the way. Remove everything from the top of the A38386 Housing - adapter (or what I'll call the front cover) taking great care to lot lose the detent ball and spring. Once the cover is loose, block it up far enough so you can reach under and remove the pump and the suction tube. Be real careful to not drop the bolts down into the main case. The cover can now be slid out for cleaning and you now have access to the main case from the top. I also removed the rear cover over the clutch packs and then using a length of 3/8" flexible tube hooked to my shop vac I poked into and around all the nooks and crannies I could reach. I was amazed at how many more gasket chunks I found. Out of curiosity I filtered and cleaned the residue just to make sure there weren't any metal chunks and there weren't. It was all gasket. Since so many people have had this torque stall problem I'm thinking maybe the original Case gaskets were of a material that crumbled when removed rather than coming off in sheets. Add to that some sloppy workmanship leaving this "soft harmless" material inside where it fell. Just a guess. Reassembling, other than all new gaskets and carefully cleaning the old parts I used what I had. I'd like to say I enjoyed this project but the only good things I can say about it is I'm very glad it's over. And the tractor pulls better than ever but then I've only had it since '98. Some of you might wind up swearing at me for talking you into doing it this way. All I'm saying is, it's possible. It worked for me with a whole lot of swearing of my own. Out here in the middle of nowhere it was that or scrap the tractor. I'll try to answer questions but you're going to have to figure out a lot on your own, like having at least a parts list to refer to. I'm new to blogs and posting so hopefully I'm not breaking any of the rules. I finished the tractor a few weeks ago and it's taken my this long to build up the nerve to do this. Part of what encourages me to do this is just how well the tractor is running. You'd think I slipped it a couple little blue pills.
this is good to know i did my ck a few years back but i removed the tank i think either way you do this it is painful at best and your pretty much guaranteed to learn some new language.
Yes you can, you can clean the shuttle pump screen without breaking the tractor in half cause I have done it. You pull the shulltle valve I n top of the transmission below the fuel tank. Unbolt the lower part of the steering. The unbolt the plate then raise it up and unbolt the tube from the plate tie it up so u can get it later and don't drop the bolts. After the plate is out of the way pull the tube up out of the the tranny . Lol nothing to it and is cheaper than splitting the tractor. I know ur probably done by now since I'm r post was 2011 but I'm replying to the new folks on here. Mike. Ps after u have done this drill the 3/4 whole and thread it for future cleanings and consider making a bigger screen.
Pictures. I can't access the pictures can you send them to me? Or repost them
Hello im mike from louisiana . Ive studied these post and ive learned alot but when it comes to phil i havent heard from him. I sentba letter to the owners of this foru to see if they could find out anything for us. Mike
The other day I created a new posting, but no one seems to be paying attention to it. So, I decided to post a thread here. I have a 580B, early 1970's model with the hydraulic shuttle. A few weeks ago I had my kid moving it from the gravel pit to the farm road to spread out some dirt. When he arrived, he told me that it was smoking a lot. Figuring it was just the crank breather (the wind was blowing just right) I paid no further attention to it. I jumped in after a few minutes and that smoke he spoke of was incredible. I got back out, felt the torque tube, it was hot but not bad, and I didn't notice any leaks. At any rate, I tried forward and it went in just fine. The pressure on the gauge was right down the middle. I put it in reverse and there was nothing, but the pressure was fine. In neutral with the clutch out the pressure was right where it was supposed to be. Figuring something may have gotten too hot, I let it cool down. Next day went out there and it still would not go into reverse. So I hauled it home and started to work on figuring out what was going on. I raised the rear off the ground and did some checking: 1) With the clutch pedal pressed in the neutral position, the gear train is in "reverse" with very limited power... certainly not enough to move the machine. Also, I have to force the transmission shifter into gear sets, otherwise it grinds. 2) If I release the clutch pedal while in neutral, the gear train does not change direction or power. 3) With the clutch pedal pressed in either neutral or reverse, or with the clutch pedal out in either neutral or reverse, everything is the same. 4) If I put her in forward, the clutch and the lever respond appropriately with all of the power in the world. Okay... Then two days ago while hauling another load of gravel (this time I used my Deere tractor to load the truck) I noticed a trail of oil down the road. Asking my son what exactly he did when he travelled down the road, he told me he had stopped at one point and put it in 4th gear to get to where we were working faster. The place he stopped is exactly the same spot that the trail of oil ended on the road. However, while running it again last night I could not find any leaks at all on the machine. Very odd!!! So I figured I would start to tear everything down. My gut tells me it is the shifting valve, likely with a blown seal allowing what flow would normally flow in "neutral" to also flow in the "reverse" portion. So this is where I am going to start. But how in blazes have people been able to remove that damn fuel tank? I noticed that there is a LOT of stud length, so I ended up cutting some of the studs down to shorter lengths. But it is still not quite enough as it binds against the cross tube that holds the uprights of the loader frame together. And I sure as hell am not going to split this thing in half to fix a valve on top of the torque tube. I split it to rebuild the rear end about 3 years ago, and not having an indoor shop with a concrete floor (or just a concrete floor for that matter) makes life very difficult. Any ideas would be appreciated. PS. I have to have the fuel tank fixed anyways as the rear RH stud has been ever-so-slowly weeping fuel for about 2 years now.
Well, I am posting again... hoping I can illicit a response about my issue. I was able to get the valve assembly off without taking the fuel tank off (I finally gave up on trying to get that thing out). Nothing looked out of the ordinary or abnormal. A question though.. how in the heck does that valve assembly operate without any O-rings or seals on the valve spools? I thought for sure that I would see a damaged seal, but nothing! The only seals are the oil seals where the spools come out of the housing. Very confused to say the least.
Hydraulic valves are amazingly precision things for no more than they cost. The spools are ground to fit the valve bore well enough to work properly without the need for internal o rings. Pretty impressive when you think about it.
Super l im in louisiana also what town are you in as im in franklinton. Kinda wanting to get to know a few 580 b owners. I put 303 oil 7n my shuttle. Now i find itvt a kes hy teans. I dont have power got it last year never did , shuttle screen was plugged . Anyhow a ny idea on ho we ti clean out thec303 oil. I cant lug the motor or spin tires when i stop it in a pile of dirt. Clutches might already be toast.
[how did u reseal the spool valves. ive looked at the diagrams and I see seals on the ends but what about the spool up inside the valve is there orings or something that isn't in the diagram .
I didn't have to remove fuel tank or valve cover, I removed upper parts of shuttle spool valves unbolted the pump then eased out the cover plate. later coming back for the pump. just in case I hope this helps
Hello All, I am getting ready to dig into my 73 580B with shuttle problems, mine is a little different then what I've been reading on here. Some of the same characteristics are wont move when cold, weak in any gear other than in 1st and sometimes just wont move! My transmission pressure gauge is reading in the high red, if I push the clutch it will drop to low red but will never be in the green. Last week it stopped moving for me, the only way I could get it to move was to feather the clutch very slightly with my hand while playing with the throttle. I adjusted the linkage from the clutch pedal to the valve to where it would drive again but now I am out of adjustment from the 3.1 inches it is suppose to be. When I start it up, it goes into the high red, I put the outriggers down and let it warm up with the wheels spinning but even after half hour I have to feather the clutch to get it to move on its own. Once its warm it will go pretty decent but it takes forever to get there. I have changed the fluid and filters 3 times in the last 2 months and there is no sign of debris in the filter, there is moisture in the fluid though. Also, until I adjusted the clutch the metal lines running to the cooler would vibrate so bad I had to wear ear muffs around that thing as it was absolutely defining. I bought this machine this summer with a bad engine, the old boy I got it from said it stopped going years ago ( around 2002 ) and he had a friend replace something in the transmission ( he didn't know what it was ) and got it partially back together. It sat uncovered with many of the lines off until I got it this summer 2018. I have read a lot about the pick up tubes, but would it still go good when its warm if the tube was plugged? Has anyone ever had the gauge reading high in the red? Currently if I adjust the clutch pedal so there is 3.1 inches like the book calls for it will not move. Thanks a million for any help on this. WHERE DO I START?? WHAT DO I DO??
Heres about all i know. Im like you ivd read and read on this. Lets talk speed a moment.if it doesng move whdn cold its normal until it warms up. Now the power shuttle is 8f it has bad springs thT wojld cause it to move slow . Mine has power in 1 and 2 buf very lil in 3 and almost none unless on level ground in 4th gears. The so called clutch i call a hydraulic dump valve. The bolt on it is a cam. I loosened mine and watched my meter on thd dash. When in neutral if reads low cause fluid is headed back to the sump. When in gear it goes through the shuttle. Pressurs should be in the green. Now. That spool valve that the clutch operates controls pressure. Check out colemanequipment.com. ull see diagrams of assembly and part numbers. The 3/4 size looking nut if u shim behind it pressure goes up . Its old machine so u dont know who did what to it. I gook someones advice anx puf 1 quarg of augomatic transmission fluid in my shuttle oil and it actually helped. The filter for the shuttle is in front of the tractor behind the grille. When ghd clutch is pressed i bdlieve everyghinv gets bypassed. Whdn u release ur using the filter. Did u change the correct one. Does youd grind the gears as u try and shift.im still learning. Does it leakwhere ur brake shoes are at. Remdmber to put grease in grease fitting on axle right behind the rear wheels. Do that right now. Trust me. Get reaDy to learn to fabricate.lol. i am. Mind willnot pull itself up a hill in 3rd hardly and will stop in forth. Ithink i need to change shuttle clutches. On level ground it has to build speed in 4th. I love talking about this but hate texting. My screen was stopped up i cleaned it when i got mine. There is a spot to drill and tap a 3/4 hole below ur shuttle pickup screen. Its in the forums. Directly under the fuel tank. Thats where your shuttle control is. The shuttle pump is below that. I have pulled all that out except the bottom plate. Then managed to unscrew the pump pipe from it then pull that plate out with pulling the fuel tank. If u gonna do that get new gaskets. Clean ur screen. Maybe look into your pump. See what it looks like . Pull the plug on bottom after draIning the oil. Either filter it or toss it. Plug it put diesel in it and boil diesel with air hose to churn up trash. Dump and repeat. .if u have to change out ur engine. Ehkld its apart consider changing clutches in ur shuttle. Dxxpensive but itll be right there. Just a tip.
Thankyou for the reply Swampfoxo, I already swapped the engine so I missed the boat on that one... I am curious as to what It means if the transmission gauge is reading in the high red when in gear or in neutral? Its only in the green if I feather and play with the clutch pedal which is now out of adjustment just to get this thing to move. If I have it adjusted like the book calls for it wont move, or barley atleast. If I play with it and work it I can get it moving and when its warm it goes really well, would it build that much pressure if the screen was plugged? I am willing to do the 3/4 hole and check the screen but it just dosent seem to reason with me that it would finally work once warm, and why so far out of adjustment? When I say I have to work it I mean work it forward and backwards in first, lifting it up with the outriggers and so on several times for a good 20-30 min to be able to drive it. Thanks for any help on this.
If it was id say maybe your clutch isnt adjusted correctly. The pressure is some kind ofblockage. . Does it move strong in first aftef its warm.
Like i said im like u but ive had mine for 3 years. Looking at buying a c. Fixing it up znx keep thd best one.
Here 8s what you can do evenyually
https://www.yesterdaystractors.com/cgi-bin/viewit.cgi?bd=case&th theres info everywhere. Check out these blogs
Do u own a manual. Tons of info in it
Yes I do own a manual, yes it will move strong in first once warm and even in second once warm. Just takes FOREVER to get it to even move. Thankyou for the reply's!
I wanna change your thinking a little on the adjustment for your clutch that cam u rotate to get 3.1 inches. Assume you have wear on parts do u mighf need a little more than that to be in the correct position. Watch ur gauge and as u adjust it . Tweak it a lil more of less then try that to see if there is a change. Mine has lots of slack in its linkages etc. Im thinking thats part of my problems as well. I did this adjustment on mine and was able yo spin tire as i was trying to dig. Not sure if that tells me if my clutches are good or not. Mind gribdz ax i try to put her in gear im thinking that slack in that valve going the oposite way lets fluid by as its in neutral.maybe when u get one correct the other is outta lind due yo this dlack. Fix slack fix problem i hope
That does make sense... I adjusted mine with linkage it self, is there another way to adjust that? I guess I need to look at the book again but I did not see another way to adjust anything on the clutch pedal besides that linkage. I assume you get the same results regardless, you are just changing the position of that valve slightly.
Pic Test
This is the link I adjusted to make my machine go.
The bolt that the clutch rotates on isnt round its a cam112 Po
See the peice u adjusted Follow it to the peice withthe cut out in it. Its got a rollef bearing in that. That piece has a bolt at thetop but its not a bolt its a cam when u loosen and turn it the adjustment is made there. . It has to be 3.1inches plus or minus for wear. Adjust cam as u wTch pressure gauge.
Any adjustment u make be aware u might end up adjusting it wrong.
Are you talking about this one?
Yes
Watch as u rotate it the mechanism moves in and out.adjusting to 3.1 . Besure roller bearing fits in raceway good.
Ok, see I tightened that down all the way when I was messing with things. I bet I am very far out of adjustment, I will play with that when I get a chance and see what happens. I am currently out of town so it will be 2 weeks before I can do that.
From the 2 different pics for the tube clean out location looks like 3.5" from the edge of the 3/4" hole to the center of the bolt hole which is about 4" center then there is a pic showing 3" centers. Which would be most accurate to be in the middle of the suction tube?
From the 2 different pics for the tube clean out location looks like 3.5" from the edge of the 3/4" hole to the center of the bolt hole which is about 4" center then there is a pic showing 3" centers. Which would be most accurate to be in the middle of the suction tube?
I think if you use 4", it may be too much. I can't say mine is exactly where it should be, but I can feel all around the screen with my finger. I drilled 3.5 inches from the middle hole using this picture. The Original Poster of the picture said he drilled his too short and is showing the 3.5" dimension as correct, even though the end of the tape isn't at the center of the bolt hole...
Its 3 inches
Large pipe taps are expensive but I would drill for at 1 inch minimum hole 1 1/2 inch even better.
Id think bigger is better but what about integrity. I think 3 inches is correct. Lots of talk on here about where and how to measure
Thanks a lot I drilled 3.5" centers and its good enough to clean it but the 3" would have been better on mine. Strainer was certainly dirty and got my hopes up but slips in forward bad, it cannot go up into garage but reverse is wonderful. The pressure is in the green except when you step on the clutch.
Does anyone sell a rebuild kit for the 580B shuttle? I am looking online but only see one for the C model and newer. Thanks
call Dale Weiss in Daleville Indiana. He is tractorstuff.com (765) 378-3396
Thank you, I will!
I agree. Bigger than the 3/4 pipe tap would be better. A 1 1/4 - 11.5 NPT tap drill is 1 31/64... (1.484), which would be perfect! Drills this size usually require a taper socket in a 3/4 drill. Not very plentiful. You may find a reduced shank drill to fit in a standard drill but you might burn up the drill. My 1/2" drill struggled with the 29/32 tap drill (.906). The cheapest tap on MSC is $56.11 plus shipping https://www.mscdirect.com/product/details/52358397 . I imagine it would be difficult to start the tap as well. I think the 3/4 NPT is probably the largest practical size with common tools most of us can find.
I don't remember where I bought my tap, but there is one on ebay.
Look at coleman equipment or call dale weiss
You can find clutch disc online after u get part numbers.coleman gives u those as well.
This is my first post on here. I have been a member for a year or so. I have been reading these posts on the 580Bs. I am an experienced mechanic. I serviced some of these old tractors when they were new. But never did any major work on them. I found this old tractor and bought it. In the past I have drilled the clean out hole for the shuttle and cleaned the shuttle screen. The screen was incredibly dirty, flushed and changed the filter on everything. After running the tractor for a while I noticed the oil pressure on the engine was going down to 0 at idle, when it got hot. Also I noticed the trans pressure getting low again. So I pulled the engine down and it needed rebuilding. It had a lot of sand in the bearings, which dated 11 and 12 of 72 on them. The crank was scared and needed rebuild. The engine is built now, and so I focused on the shuttle and decided to pull it while the engine was out. So when I got the tank and covers off it looks like it had been under water. The engine was full of slime and now the shuttle looks the same. So the shuttle is split out of the tractor and clutch pack is setting on my work bench. I believe this tractor might have went under water in the flood of 1998 in central Texas. With that said I believe the clutch stack needs rebuild and I cant find any info on the disassembly of the Twin Disc clutch pack. The clutches look good from the outside but I would like to replace the seals on the servos and make sure the slime is not in them. I purchased the service manual that is on disc. But is very vague on any tear down. I do not want to make any mistakes on this, as I know that parts are hard to come by, and I see some little roll pins in the outer plates. Can someone on here help me out. Thanks Earl
Hello, Was wondering if you ever received any info on your shuttle? I am getting ready to tear into one and am also having a hard time finding much info on them. Thanks Darren
Hello Darren, Sorry I had not checked my emails, it has been a very bad week for me. No I didn't get any info on the forum, however I found an old friend of mine that had retired from Case power. He put me in contact with an other guy here in San Antonio that had quote "cut his teeth on these old machines". Most of the old guys are retired or have passed on. So I went by there and he let me look at an old service manual and explained how it come apart. So you have to split the tractor all the way back to where the transmission starts. The engine has to come out of coarse, mine was out already out for rebuild, the console had to be lifted up by the ROPS cab with straps and come-a-long, all the steering, hydraulic lines, fuel tank, battery, battery box, brake linkages, brake pedal assy, top shuttle plates and torque converter charge valve ect. has to come off. Don't get discouraged when pulling the top plates. The large one has two dowels in it, and it is hard to get off!!! The dowels keep the charge pump aligned. Then you split the cases at the back of the shuttle. Be very careful not loose the shims and snap ring at the rear, where the shuttle splines to the transmission. When reinstalling the shuttle case assy. I think there has to be a minimum gap of .025 and a maximum of .045 at those shims IIRC. Once the shuttle is out, the friction pack will slip out the back of the case, after removing one bolt and retaining washer, and gear. There is a spanner nut on the back of the assembly. remove that and the planet gear. There are some thrust bearings and washers in this area, keep them organized. That is the easy part. Then you need to have a press of good size, put the long end downward in the press, this end has the snap ring recessed in the last plate. Push the shaft down through the assembly. There is a long square key that goes all the way through keeping everything aligned. Now once you are pressing and it take some pressure because you will be moving the entire stack off the shaft at one time! Press until the first plate becomes loose. stop and unstack the frictions, keeping them in order and pay close attention to the inner bellville flat springs between them and the plates. There are timing marks on the spline, on the shaft that spline into the slick plates, they are 5 teeth apart and each bellville spring has to be in the correct place. When you are stacking the plates the first bellville spring will line up on the right mark then the second will line up on the left mark and so on alternating. All this does is align the waves of the spring. Also at this time there are some very thin small shims in the center of the stack. These set up the distance the piston has to travel to engage the clutch pack. Keep them in order too! Once that is unstacked then continue pressing until the center piston assy. comes loose. Now there are two lubricating valves and springs in the piston, pay attention how they are positioned. Now that the piston assy. is off then you can unstack the second set of frictions, plates, shims ect. Once all the loose parts are off the shaft, you can turn over the shaft and press the first plate right back down into position, back against the snap ring and you are ready to clean it up and start the reassembly. If you have any book on this you will see a set of U-shaped steel tool plates that hold the friction set together. All these do is hold the frictions and springs together while you press the piston back on. These tools are not sold by Case any more, so you either make them or borrow them. On the long torque tube shaft there are three locking piston rings. Check the torque tube case where these rings ride down inside, if there is ware there you might have to take the tube/case to a machine shop and have it bored out and put a sleeve back in to bring it back into tolerance? The rest of the shuttle case is pretty straight forward, just gears and bearings. The torque converter is pretty simple too. If you have ever done a converter on any Caterpillar it is about the same. The rebuild kit for the converter is basic. Make sure and check your pump for ware too. I had pressure problems with my hoe and did the drill out and tap the bottom of the case to clean the suction screen, well the screen was damaged and I had epoxied it back in place through the tapped hole. After pulling the top plate and looking at the pump and suction tube, I feel that the screen was never adequate in the first place. I am going to redo my screen and increase the area of it. The Twin Disc shuttle is more work but I think it is a good one. I hope you are as lucky as I was. My frictions look like new and all I needed was seals and gaskets. I did this because there was a lot of debris in the system and was worried that the apply pistons were full of junk and would fail after putting the new engine back in. However the pistons were clean, just were in need of new seals. The old ones were deteriorating going bad. The frictions plates alone are real costly. I spent over $800.00 just for seals and gaskets. My engine, shuttle, and transmission had so much crap in them, that I feel it must have been in the flood of 1998, here in central Texas. Well Darren, I hope this helps you. If you need anything else let me know. I will help if can.
WOW! I am very sorry I didn't see your reply sooner... Thank you very much for taking the time and laying out the info like you did! I got my shuttle removed from the tractor, I have not opened it up yet. I do believe I have a twin disc shuttle. The clutch discs look good from what I can see from just removing the top cover. My shuttle would work good if I could get it to engage, my problem is or was that there was a very fine line from the shuttle engaging or not. I would feather the clutch pedal to find the sweet spot while trying to keep the pressure in the green zone. I would have to use my hand to feather the clutch pedal because it was so touchy. Most of the time I couldn't get it to engage. It seems like an issue somewhere in the valve body rather then in the clutch packs or converter, maybe someone has had similar issues?? The pickup screen does not appear to be clogged, no debris found in shuttle. I did not pressure test anything prior to removing the shuttle like I probably should have, but i was parting out this particular backhoe so at the time didn't see a need.
Well i went in with a camera into the shuttle. There was a shitload of debris... :S
Welcome to HEF, Henrik ! I see you registered in July. Now - your first post !
This is a great post. Has anyone done this to an early CK? I have a 67 CK and need to flush the shuttle and clean the screen. Thanks, Darren
where can i find exact measurements to drill and tap to gain access to the pump tube screen? i’ve tried everything else, hoping it’s a clogged screen.
Welcome to HEF, Russell ! Here is a link to an extremely helpful amount of 580B shuttle information. If you have time read the whole thread. If you don't, go to page #7, post #129. Thanks to pac11adpa really good photo is there with the measurements. This is his photo. ↓↓↓↓
Good morning. Not really new here, have been reading posts for a couple years, but this is my first reply. Having pretty much the same issues as others with these old 580b shuttles. Morning sickness, sluggish engagement or none when good and warm. Forward seems to work well until it gets warm then will not engage, usually will move the machine but no power. Forward works well when cool. What I am experiencing different than others is NO reverse when hot, and always hesitates going into reverse. Dash gauge will not rise in to the green in reverse when hot but sometimes will positively engage in forward (no power)until it cools for a few minutes. I have changed the fluid and flushed the system as best I could. I was unable to get the drain plug out of the converter. I have not drilled "the hole" and cleaned the screen yet, next project! The thing that has me confused is the difference between forward and reverse. Brakes were not working when I got the machine and I am assuming reverse was used as the the brakes for a long time. Does anyone have any idea why reverse is so much worse than forward? clutches? Oring maybe? Seals. I am lifetime wrench bender but not much experience with automatic transmissions or anything like this shuttle. Gear boxes are a breeze. I am thinking about Marvel Mystery oil to cut any varnish. And maybe running half ATF to increase the viscosity of the oil. A friend suggested Lucas Stop slip additive, thoughts? Anyone tried Seafoam in one of these? Any suggestions or info will be immensely appreciated! You guys are awesome! Jake
Where is the link?
Welcome to HEF, Norbert !
Welcome to HEF, Jakester55 !
So I bought this 1972 Case 580B not running off my neighbor, had the IP rebuilt and it fired right up. Anyways, so shortly after running it around the yard right away I noticed the shuttle in forward would start slipping, at the same time the pressure gauge would read low. I believe the cause of the lower pressure in trans is due to the fluid temp, and I thought it was being caused by the clutches in the shuttle being worn out and slipping. So I has my local Case Dealer in Fontana CA build me a rebuild kit for it; it ran about $1400. While I waited for the parts I split the tractor by rolling the engine forward then, I removed the "torque tube". So with the new friction plates in hand and the disc (26 total) I pulled the Rockford Shuttle out of the toque tube for further inspection, and to my surprise the forward and reverse clutches look like they're in good shape. I thought at least the forward clutches would be worn since that was the one that gave me the most issues. The shuttle pump P/U tube and some debris however I don't think it was enough to cause issues. SO my question is should I look into getting the torque converter rebuilt or how can I go about testing it or should I just put it back together and do more diagnostic testing. I'm going to install the new disc in the shuttle while I'm here. and clean everything really good while it's apart. After reading the forums on here I'm starting to think it's normal for these tractors to loose their torque once you start working them hard. I will post more pictures and update as I move along with this project. Any advice is appreciated if anyone still post on here LOL. Paid $4000 for tractor $1300 Injection pump $1400 shuttle rebuild kit $ ??? 5 hydraulic cylinders need seal kits Big money pit for this broke 20 year old. LOL
I drilled the hole in my Case 580CK. Cleaned the screen and flushed the housing. Out came chunks of a small gear. Anyone know where this gear came from? After performing the screen cleaning, the tranny pressure increased, the whine was all but gone, and the tractor shifts and moves with authority. I drove the bucket up against a dirt pile in first gear, applied throttle, and wheel spun. Prior to the procedure, it would whine loudly, and once shifted, it would take 20 seconds to engage. It had no power (slipping).
I think the mystery gear chunks are from a failed starter bendix that found it's way to the sump. This happened long before I got it. Never had the starter out.
Amazing ide for the drilling hole. I did 3.25 inches and it was. Bang on. Flushed with deisel a bunch. Screen was completely plugged. Anyone know if it's bottom feed only? Or does the screen have sides to clean off. One my drill and tap come tomorrow I'll make the hole bigger and test it out! Thanks everyone. I got about 5 times what's on the filter cloth out so far when rinsing with deisel. More to come I'm sure.
diezelnut ; I have seen broken teeth like that myself. I would advise you to remove the starter and take good look at all of the ring gear teeth. It may be on the verge of failure. The wrong number of teeth on the Bendix drive gear will cause teeth to be broken off like in your picture.
Sorry I had to re post this reply on this thread since that's where all the chatter about the hole was. Hey diezlnut, what's the size of your threads? Did you to the 3/4 pipe thread? I was thinking of drilling a 1 inch hole about 1/8 down. Giving me a ledge and putting a rubber o ring on bolt that can counter sink? I've never seen any talk on here about the finish process since everyone is lroba ly so excited to just use the thing.
This trick worked on my 580B, my screen was stopped up with red RTV. Presuming someone has had it opened up before.