Hello all, new to the forum and looking for insight into this problem. Tractor started loosing power and then shut off. I thought maybe it was out of fuel so bought 10 gallons of diesel and put it in it. still nothing so I took the line off on the bottom of the tank and with the petcock open, no fuel came out. Got my air pig and blew into the bottom of the tank and got fuel flowing again. Took fuel filters off and they were full of rusty watery crap from the tank. Changed filters and bled air off the fuel system. She fired right up and ran better than ever for a few minutes and then shut off again, now it will not start but I have fuel at the injectors and light smoke from the exhaust while trying start it. My question is, could I have gotten trash past the filters and into the pump causing a low pressure condition while still getting fuel to the injectors? Return side glass ball check and spring are fine and the inlet side screen is clean. Tank has been drained and cleaned with all new diesel fuel. If it is just a coincidence that the pump went out at the same time as a fuel supply issue, what are the symptoms of a faulty injection pump? Is there a way to check output pressure of the injection pump? This system utilizes a Stanadyne DBGFCC431-64AJ. There is no lift pump in this system.
check return line and fittings from inj. pump to storage tank MUST have flow at the storage tank
Will do thank you!
Anything is possible, and with rusty water in the filters, I would NOT call it a coincidence if the pump locked up. To confirm, you have fuel at the injectors, does that mean you have the steel lines from the injection pump loose at the injector, and they are squirting fuel, or at least pulsing fuel when you crank the engine with the throttle at high? Does the engine seem to crank with enough speed? have you been charging the battery through this whole time. It would not be normal for the injection pump to lose pressure and still pump, typically it would lock up and not pump from sudden contamination. More likely might be plugged injectors from a small bit of rust getting by the filters. That could explain the bit of smoke you get while cranking but not quite starting. If it spurts fuel at the injectors, you could remove and test the injectors. Or tighten them back up and give it a tiny shot of starting fluid while cranking to see if it will catch.
OOPS
Yes to all the info you asked about and thanks for the response.
REMOVE the return connector on the top of the pump.. & try to start it.
I did this yesterday and it still wouldn't start. Thanks. Do you know if this pump is capable of running injectors that have a popoff of 3200 psi? I have a set that came with it but didnt want to install them since the 580c is spec'd at 2800 psi.
U can use the 3200 psi but the fuel needs to b turned up.. Have u done a compression test.? I’m rebuilding a 64AJ right now.. The flex ring was deteriorated..
ALL of the fitting off of the pump? so that you could stick a pen inside the pump housing?
yes
I have not done a compression test yet.
Waiting for a compression test fitting for the pencil type injectors. I was able to pull the #1 injector yesterday and verify that it is popping off. I'm now wondering if I may be looking at a timing or valvetrain issue. Any thoughts on ruling out the pump after this latest discovery?
Check the pump to engine timing.. Get the 2 lines in the pump window and check the * at the flywheel cover..(above the starter?)
How old is the fuel? Is it gummy? When I bought my Case the prior owner had bio diesel in it and it sat. Fuel pump had to be rebuilt and the fuel tank flushed at a radiator shop.
Good thinkin..
We run into that problem at work where they use bio fuel. I have found the diesel 911 in the red bottle will dissolve that stuff.
Hmm.. I think I’ll try a bottle for my pump clean-up.. I HAVE TO wire wheel or bead blast EVERY PART inside a pump that runs bio.. (108) It’s some horrible stuff.!! If it does indeed dissolve it, I’ll buy a case just for cleaning.!!
We do buy it by the case. Something else I found out. I also have to work on small engines that have sat around for years. I had one gas engine that had old thick ethanol fuel gum in the bottom of the tank, and nothing seemed to break it up. The shop forman told my to try the diesel 911 in that. Worked like a champ. I poured some 911 in it, and put some lag bolts in the tank and kept shaking it around, cleaned it right up after a little time for it to work. Just got through getting a old John Deere 750 tractor going that had been sitting with this bio fuel in it for the past 5 years. Pulled the fuel filter, you could pour fuel in the center of the filter and it would hold it just like a cup, no fuel could get through. I got a new filter, but I could not get the gum off the plastic see-through filter bowl, and I was afraid to put any strong solvents to that plastic. So I left it, poured 2 quart bottles of the 911 in the empty tank, and then ran the engine on that till I got it over to the fuel pumps. It's been running great, and after a few weeks I notice that now I can see the new filter through the plastic bowl, the 911 has slowly ate the gum off the plastic. I did have to put that lousy bio back in it, that's all we are allowed to run.
Nice to hear about a product that actually works.. It may not be for its intended purpose.. but works nevertheless.. I get A LOT of pumps that are gummed up like that.. and it literally takes me HOURS to clean them up.. I’ll give it a try.. THANKS
I have a 580 K that started and ran for about 40 seconds and died. I changed the fuel filters and air filters and started bleeding the fuel system, got no fuel out the injector side of the pump went thru the diagnostic chart and ended up installing a injector pump transfer or lift was working fine. new injection pump in no start has wht smoke out the exhaust. when it is given a shot of start aid it sounds like it wants to run backwards. have checked the timing 3 times.
U got a new injection pump, along with a transfer/ supply pump.?? And it white smokes out the exhaust ..?? Did your new injection pump come w a drive shaft.??
keyed shaft only goes in the gear 1 way the lift pump was giving ample fuel to bleed the system so I did not replace it. yes wht smoke bled the system all the way to the injectors... what is funny is the change in the sound when you give it a shot of start aid,,,, like it wants to run backwards makes me wonder if is turning the engine fast enough to create the heat needed to start?,, but without the start aid cranks over good just no start,,1991 580 K SR#JJG0033799 pump # JR915882
It should spin as fast as your car/truck.. if u have 2 batteries, it’s supposed to be 1..(if I remember) When u time it, r u using the lines behind the cover on the pump.?? And then looking at the flywheel degrees.?? If done properly, the 2 lines should meet while the drive shaft key is at 7:00 looking at the gear towards the pump. OR if you take the pump off and look inside..(7:00)
the engine has a timing pin that you install and then lock the pump for removal and reinstall the new pump and unlock the pump and pull the timing pin back should fire, it also has a mark on the mount of the pump and the case where it bolts on that are to be lined up for the timing.
seems a bit slow had another mech observing and he said it was good . I think it is slow I have the battery charger hooked up and turned to 12v-70 amp and it is a little better but not much
Oh, I see now, I guess that’s what ya get for hi-jacking a thread.. U CANT use the timing marks on the mounting ear.. just use the pin under the pump to set the engine at TDC.. Then remove the side cover and rotate the pump to line up your letter.(G)???)
wasn't my intention sorry
U CANT use the timing marks on the mounting ear.. just use the pin under the pump to set the engine at TDC.. Then remove the side cover and rotate the pump to line up your letter.(G)???)[/QUOTE] I will try this thank you
Thanks for all the responses, all great info. Still waiting on compression fitting but injectors are popping off and atomizing as they should and the engine seems to have plenty of compression with a distinct pop. I checked each cylinder/injector individually. Timing is spot on. So here is where it sits as of yesterday. I have it setup with an external tank with new fuel and a 12v inline pump. Still no start with the pump or without. White smoke while cranking, but no start. It will beast off with a shot of starting fluid but will not stay running. I'm leaning toward some sort of injector pump problem as I've tried everything I know to try. Thepumpguysc I'd be interested in more info on your service if you want to shoot me a PM. Thanks everyone for all the info and help.
at this point, I would get an experienced person to look at it, rather than rebuild a pump and still have the problem with new pump. How does the spray pattern look compared to the pictures you find online? Have you removed the return fitting again since it's been making white smoke? are you trying to start with the throttle in high?
Full voltage to the IP shut-off solenoid ? Can you hear it click when it gets power ?
Spray pattern looks great with good atomization, yes and yes. Talked with my local diesel turbo/pump shop and they said they can test/troubleshoot it so I may do that.
It's mechanical and all set. Thanks.
As I read the down the posts it went from your 580C to a 580K. Hi jacking a thread causes confusion. That is why it is discouraged from happening.
Absolutely agree!
sounds like pump is 180 off wonder if the pump rebuilder set the pump correctly
I still think it has to do with fuel return system, pull fitting and contents at inj pump, also the return line, try running it without putting parts back on, will not run unless it has free flowing back to tank,GOOD LUCK KISS==keep it simple simon lol
He is getting fuel, that is what the white smoke is. He must have some compression, it will run on ether. So your timing theory has some merit I think.
Okay so I just re-checked the pump timing and discovered that with both timing marks on the pump lined up, I'm four or five teeth past the D.C. mark on the flywheel. Meaning as I rotate the flywheel i see 8 degrees then 1 degrees then D.C. I have to keep rotating the flywheel roughly 5 teeth past D.C. before the marks inside the pump line up. I don't know what happened the first time I checked the timing other than it being super dark and late. Anyway, any thoughts on what might be going on? Thanks in advance!
The only thing I can think of is the gear slipped.?? Did u have the drive shaft outta the pump.?? Like I said before.. if this is a RoosaMaster/Stanadyne pump.. Loosen the nut on the drive shaft, enough to see the key.. The key should be at 7:00 w the lines lined up in the window and the timing marks on the flywheel at TDC OR 8*..