Ok. I've ditched the idea of the JCB because of all the negative comments. Thanks to all! My attention has turned to a Case 580C . It has the loader & digger from a Super K. It needs a starter & a battery. Asking price is $3k. Anyone want to offer me opinions on this machine?
Firstly, a 580C will not have the same loader & hoe as a 580 Super K. The 580C's are a very capable digger - however a machine of that vintage & a $3k price tag WILL require alot of mechanical repair ability. Oh & lots of friendly advice from willing HEF members If it needs a starter, it may need a ring gear as well......
I don't think I'd buy it till I saw it running and operating. 3k sounds way to cheap to me. I've seen some recently from 8k-10k running.
I'm just going by what the owner says. He told me the tractor was a late 70's and the loader/hoe was from a late 80's Super K.
I don't have any experience with a 580C, but in general, a Case backhoe is way more common than a JCB, at least in the states. You would have a much easier time with parts, support, etc. Like redneckracin said above, I would for sure want to see it running first. From my experience, whenever a seller says it "just needs a starter and a battery", I get a red flag. You are talking maybe $200-$300 bucks for both of those items and super easy to replace. Why not fix those items and then sell it as a running machine - UNLESS there is something more seriously wrong.
I asked him if I could bring a starter and replace it and jump start it. He said, "sure. shouldn't be a problem".
I bought a 580D (1982) a couple of years ago, first backhoe. It's usable right now, thanks to Coy Lancaster and others on the forum, but it's far from perfect. Be prepared to fix all those "little things", that are always wearing out.
I would like to see a photo of this machine if at all possible.
A Frankenstein 580 backhoe, scary… 580Cs are good machines, but swapping loader and backhoe with a super K would make a real Frankenstein machine. The controllability of the hydraulics would be one of many areas needing review. Maybe the seller just has his dates off a little when he says late 80s, but Super Ks did not start production until 91. For reference on a simple backhoe identification check, a C would have 2 boom cylinders(1 on each side of boom), a SK is going to have 1 cylinder in middle of boom. Suggest you get more information to confirm how this machine is configured. As Coy Lancaster suggests, pictures would be helpful for better opinions.
I have to ask why you are looking at machines that will require a ton of work and money to get operating properly? Everybody would like to have a backhoe or a dozer or an excavator, etc. but buying something for what seems like a cheap price is not usually the way to go about it. As stated above, the biggest red flag is if you can't even start it to see what works and what doesn't. Just needs a starter and battery? These are relatively inexpensive things to fix so why hasn't the seller fixed them and asked a higher price??? My guess is that there is much more wrong with the machine than the seller wants to disclose. You would be much better off looking at machines that everything semi works and spending more up front. Trying to fix a basket case or bastardized machine usually results in spending a lot more money than the machine is worth with no guarantee's and costing more than you could buy something that works. If a machine needs tires, hoses, cylinder seals or even pins and bushings is doable if the main components are still in somewhat decent working condition. I'd think you'd need to be looking at machines around the $7500+ range to have a chance of finding something that isn't just a pile of scrap metal. There are exceptions for less but they are few and far between. Try to find something that was popular and has at least some parts support.
Here's a pic...
I can't afford a higher priced machine at this time, that is why I'm searching for bargains. If I get a machine that is usable, I can fix things as they need and the dollar demand won't be all at once.
Well, that is interesting. It is not a Super K backhoe, as seen by the dual cylinders on the boom. That might be a Super K loader though. Definitively not a 580C loader, as they had a fishplated connection for the boom cylinders and solid, not cast, links on the curl cylinders. I wouldn't have guessed they would have fit up, I'd look real close at how everything was done there.
That thing isn't anywhere near usable. Stabilizer is chained up. So is the boom. A channel lock pliers on the hoist cylinder rod. No front grill. Run away from that train wreck as fast as you can. Prolly has coolant in the oil.
I agree with JBrady that is not a 580 Super K backhoe. As the seller is telling you differently, it is a red-flag and buyer beware! The loader installation is odd. The safety strut is obviously missing, and replaced with angle iron and a welding clamp. Interesting way to transport, as most people will have the loader on the trailer for transport. Given the loader changes, the range of motion of loader would also be something to inspect. I would also question why the stabilizer is chained up. Perhaps it is just good transport practice, but in North America it is not common practice. If you are serious about spending money on the machine with hope of not having to invest significantly more money into it, then I would recommend finding an experienced mechanic that is knowledgeable of how a 580C normally functions to go with you to inspect the machine. Make sure the current owner will allow you to get the machine running and then solidly work the machine in both backhoe and loader modes, as many issues will not show up until the machine is running and hot.
Looks like I'm passing on this one, too. Thanks for all the opinions!
I think my suspicions were correct. Hoping to find a less expensive machine that can do some work while you fix issues one at a time is a recipe for disaster. If you don't have the money to buy a decent running machine you aren't going to save money buying something that needs extensive work. Most of the time you're just buying a money pit. The seller doesn't want to deal with it anymore. Maybe a very experienced mechanic, that knows what to look for, could fix a machine up over time doing all the work himself but even then can take years and a boat load of money. Even if you buy what seems like a decent running machine you should have some money set aside for unexpected repairs. Look what happened to Crane operator and he knows his stuff better than anyone. Sometimes bad stuff just happens. Renting is maybe an option for you to get some of your work done.
As I see it the machine needs a lot of work. If you think you want to spend the time and money on this machine then go for it. Just remember that you still have a 580C with all it's quirks and issues. One question though have you driven it yet? How are the brakes do they work? I know you said that there are starting issues with it already so what's the up front cost plus the on going cost of repair.
Might be a fun project machine if you are retired and have a lot of spare time, money, a great big comfortable shop, and all of the necessary tools. Otherwise, you should run from that sucker.
fpgm, The loader is probably secured in a raised position because it doesn't run - makes the machine a little easier to drag or winch - and the stabilizer is chained up because it needs to be repacked and won't stay in the raised position It sounds like the seller was being straight with him. He said it was a C with the loader and digger off a K. He didn't say the entire hoe was off a K. The boom looks original but the dipper looks like a K. He must have had a K for donor parts. For 3000, you are unlikely to find a better machine if it runs and drives and the new loader and hoe parts work. It's not a creampuff or a good candidate for a restoration show piece but it might do the job at hand if it runs. Asking and selling price aren't necessarily the same so offer less if that helps.
Grady, Perhaps I am misunderstanding, but in in post #4 from Ken above, I take that to mean the seller is stating both the loader and backhoe are from a 580 Super K. I understand your points and agree with your logic about a possible reason for the chains. That being said, there has to be more to the story here which are red flags for me unless fully investigated and understood. For example replacing the starter to get the tractor moving (as the seller indicated was needed but did not do) is relatively quick and easy, compared to chaining overhead between the loader and backhoe to get those implements elevated, chaining the stabilizers, then winching/pushing the machine on a trailer. Perhaps some circumstances could be envisioned to dictate this method of transport, but given the seller also stated incorrect things like the machine has a 580SK backhoe installed (as I interpret Ken’s description which maybe is wrong), I simply wanted to point out to Ken this is an area of concern. Another example of loader concern is the safety strut lock pin tab normally welded on the bottom of the loader arm is missing. While I realize the safety strut is also missing, given this is a Frankenstein 580C tractor with some other model loader, I question the loader range of motion and its speed and controllability, given who knows what valve spools, pump, and cylinders this machine has. In any case, the machine appears to be dead weight right now and will require some investment to get it running. After that, the value of the machine verses the unknown risk of dealing with a modified 30/40 year old machine is up to the buyer to determine.
Yeah, no big deal. I was going by post #1 where it said loader and digger. How are you going to get a hoe that doesn't run on a trailer if the buckets and stabilizers are on the ground? I moved one in a similar condition and we weren't there very long. Backed up to it with a ramp truck, slid the ramp under the loader bucket to lift it up and slid a 4x4 under the loader arms resting on the radiator frame. A rag, a piece of angle iron and some zip ties around the loader rams to keep it there for the ride and a come-a-long to lift the stabilizers and then chain them up. If the hoses are still hooked up, someone needs to work the valve levers while lifting. One of my biggest concerns - even if it runs and works is what someone already mentioned - the possibility of the ring gear needing replacing. That won't be fun. Pulling the starter will tell if that's an issue. I say have a look. Some fresh fuel, a battery and a starter isn't much of an investment - esp. for that price. If it doesn't run, take your stuff back off and go home.