Hi all, Yesterday while operating the machine I experienced significant 'power loss' to the drive axle while trying to go uphill. It happened in both forward and reverse. When on flat ground, she revves up just fine, and when I positioned her to do some digging, all hydraulics worked great, and did not notice any power loss there. But when trying to go up my steep driveway, every time she would be so sluggish that she would barely make it up. Sometimes almost coming to a stop. And when I try revving it up to increase power to go up the hill, the rpms would not increase. Sometimes it would oscillate a bit (the engine). Like she wanted to increase, but couldn't. Then, once I get to top of hill to flat ground, she settles out and is willing to go up in rpms again. Note: It also feels like she hardly has any power when I am trying to go into a pile of dirt to pick up a front bucket full of dirt. So the symptoms seem to be loss of power from the engine to the actual drive axle, if I had to describe it best. I have absolutely zero idea on where to even begin my troubleshooting on this. I have 2 brand new fuel filters, so I'm going to at least replace those today or tomorrow.. Can anyone steer me in the right direction on this ? This one has me worried. So far I've been able to fix any issues that come up, because everything is accessible and I can get parts. But I have no idea what to do on this one. Would be great if it was just a clogged filter or screen... If anyone can offer troubleshooting tips, or diagnosis, would be much appreciated. I can PM my # and talk on phone if anyone is willing to. Thank you guys.
Well, we need to determine where the problem may lie within the powertrain. A simple stall test will tell us what direction to go. I assume you have the 207D engine? Do you have the ability to read engine rpm's? We will need a tachometer and the stall specs from a resident Case expert. Someone experienced can do a stall test by ear, but I don't believe you would recognize the parameters of what we would be looking for.
I believe it's the 207. And yes, the rpm gauge works. It's the only gauge that does work!! So grateful it works!
Hopefully it will be accurate enough. Let the engine warm up.........then press the accelerator pedal to high idle with no load..........record that rpm reading. Next, again with the engine at high idle, pull the boom or bucket to bottom out and record that rpm> That will be the hydraulic stall speed. Then .......and make sure you have dam good brakes or/and the front of the machine against a tree or something that wont give........again with the engine at high idle.......... transmission stick in 4th (or highest gear) push the FNR lever into forward and record that rpm.....that is drivetrain convertor stall. Lastly.......engine high idle, perform the hydraulic and the convertor stall at the same time and record that rpm. This is what is known as the full stall speed. By doing this and comparing to the specs, we can narrow down the area that a problem may exist. AGAIN..........be dam careful when doing the convertor stall. The machine may lunge if your brakes are weak. Its always best to ensure no movement in more than one way.
When you say high idle, do you mean to max it out ?
Yes. Full throttle to the floor
Got it, thank you. So I will be recording 4 rpm readings and that will help narrow this down. Question - when you say pull the boom or bucket to 'bottom out'... What exactly am I doing there ? (And I would be more apt to do this with the boom because it seems to put more load on the system.)
Your going to bottom out the cylinders and hold them there with the control lever which will be relieved by the main relief valve.
What does it mean to bottom out the cylinder ? What exactly am I doing with the boom and dipper ?
Pull a cylinder clear in or out and continue to hold the lever and watch tach and record RPM,
Ok, got it, thank you.
I will do these tests tomorrow or soon. Raining here in Maryland this evening.
Hey MD...I'm new to the jargon too so don't feel bad. I kinda figured it meant pushing things to their limit, but wasn't sure about which direction that limit was heading --- either all the way in or all the way out. Glad I found out. Following this...
I try to avoid revving the RPMs up past 2200. But if I need to push it for these tests I will.
The injection pump governor should have high limit of 2250 rpm's give or take 20 rpm's. The accuracy of the tachometer is a factor of the true speed.
If anyone is willing to do this with me on a video call (Zoom or WhatsApp), I'm game. If not I will just take pictures and report my findings.
**TIP - While performing the converter stall test (with the machine in 4th gear, brakes on OR against a tree) select FWD / Neutral / FWD multiple times - if the converter is bad, sometimes it will test OK (around 1900rpm) & next shift it will stall the engine. The spec sheet -
Thanks Alrman. So for theory sake.. Let's say my tachometer is accurate, and my engine high idles at 2250 with no load. So those RPM readings in your above picture are what the tachometer needle should drop to when I perform the said tests ? And as long as the engine doesn't actually clonk out and stall when I do the combine test.. "engine must continue to run".. I'll do the tests and take the readings. I really hope I'm able to get help diagnosing it. I enjoy working on the machine, but I'm not in any position to open up the transmission and work on it... That seems way too daunting. I guess though, if it's a serious issue, and I need to get deep into the machine, then I'll have to figure out how to go about it. Never done anything like that. Just rebuilt my first ever hydraulic cylinder (swing cylinder) two weeks ago.
Correct.
Ok. Interesting. Seems like a small drop for converter. Very small drop for hydraulic. And then when combined... Just needs to stay running. I'll do the tests and report the findings. I'll start with a picture of my tachometer running at high idle. Thanks guys
If everyone would direct their attention to this guy's coolant thread and take a gander at the pics that show the fuel filters. They're rusty as hell and still showing the paint from the rattle can rebuild, how about we start there and maybe check the rest of the fuel system for contamination.
Lol, thanks Stinky! This picture is part of my to-do list today. I was going to let her run for 20 mins, then perform the stall tests and record data, then shut her off and replace the fuel filters. It would be a blessing if all it was were the fuel filters or something else 'small' and accessible.
You really need to check the fuel system first as Stinky mentioned.
I was told to fill this secondary fuel filter from the top after it is installed, which makes sense to me.. But for the life of me I cannot unscrew that little nut on the top with starting to bend the thin metal shell of the filter. Anyone have any tips on this ? I already took a razor blade and scored thru the layer of paint..
Lol, ok, Darwin award!! I just unscrewed the little plastic cap piece instead
I have a trophy case full of those.
Update: I replaced the fuel filters and she is like a new machine. Went up the driveway better than she ever has. Also, replacing the fuel filters was nowhere near as difficult as I thought it would be, thanks to some advice I received from a local farmer about how to fill the new filters with fuel before trying to start her. She actually started right up and I didn't even have to bleed anything. Also super grateful for this website and all the contributing members, big thank you to everyone who has been offering info and advice, lots of great knowledge shared here.
Just looking at those pictures I just shared... If it were you .... Would you replace the exhaust manifold ? Obviously rusted bad on the outside.
Everything rusts. Question is, are there any holes and do you see leaks coming out of it? If not, don’t worry about it.
I do not see any holes or leaks. Its definitely seen better days on the outside though. If it's purely cosmetic, then I will put it towards the bottom of the list for restoration.
I wouldn't remove it unless it is necessary. It quite normal to twist or break studs or mounting bolts because they are seized in the head or, have a reduced diameter from years of rust eating away at them.
Ok, thanks Tinkerer. I'll leave it for now. I guess I will cross I will have to cross that bridge down the line if the aesthetic bothers me and I continue to restore her
Exhaust manifolds can cause fires when they leak, so they come with a built in warning system to alert you when they fail. Unless you're deaf.
Glad to see the filters worked, gotta keep the fuel system clean. Did you check/drain the crud from the fuel tank when you replaced the filters? If not you may experience the same issue in the near future. 40+ years of rust,dirt,water and the dreaded algae are lurking in your tank. Have you ever drained the sediment bowl in the bottom of the tank?
Hi Stinky,. I did not check or drain crud, and I have never drained the sediment bowl. Here is a pic. Any tips on going about this ? I was hesitant to do this, because she is so old.. I was worried about stirring something up into the fuel line, vs leaving well enough alone. That said - if consensus is that it's wise to celan out the tank and bowl, let me know best way to go about it. Thank you
Wait until your tank is low or siphon most of the fuel from your tank, because you're probably going to make a mess. I seriously doubt it but you may be able to open the petcock in the bowl, but it's likely to be packed with ***** and there's no way to stick a wire up into that style of fitting and blowing air in is just going to make a bigger mess and mix all that crap into the fuel. My recommendation is to just remove that fitting, throw it in the trash and replace with a small ball valve/1/4 turn valve that you can clean out easier in the future. MAKE SURE YOU GET A GOOD GRIP ON THE FITTING AT BASE OF BOWL SO YOU DON'T TWIST THE BOWL OFF THE TANK. First shut off the pump supply line to the filters (the fitting out front in your pic.) so no contamination gets into that line until you're done. Put a large pan under the tank to catch the remaining fuel cuz when you start poking in there it may gush out and there's no stopping it. Do not recommend doing this step from under machine for obvious reasons. When empty check inside tank with a good light and get out as much as possible ,when you think it's clean, clean it a little more. The supply line is probably already fairly clear from when you changed the filters. Fill the tank ,open supply valve and just to be safe open the bleeder on top of the filter that you just learned how to work to burp out any air that may have gotten in there. Good luck.