Hello all. Please forgive my ignorance, I'm not very familiar with these machines. I have a very, very used 580CK from the late 60s/early 70s. Diesel, manual transmission. Bought it to do some retaining walls on the property, worked great last summer. When I parked it for the winter it had good green coolant in it (didn't test it, but it *looked* good) and I decided not to drain it in case I needed it over the winter. That didn't happen. Started the machine today and it fired right up and ran strong. Maybe 10 minutes in I noticed an odd metallic sound and shut it down. Not a rap, but a small tick and what I can only describe as a clearance/rub noise. Checked oil and it was extremely milky (more than just condensation) and well over full. Drained it out and there was obvious coolant. Saw nothing in the radiator, and when I poured coolant in it ran right through the engine and out the still open oil plug. No trickle, ran right out, and never came up in the radiator. Nothing leaks externally that I can see. It seems to run too well to have that much damage to the head, but I am unfamiliar with these engines. I guess at this point I am asking for the voice of experience to point me at a good place to start looking. I am assuming I will be going into it, but didn't know if it's always the top or if there is some seal, etc. in the front of these that could fail and cause that much of a crossover. Thanks in advance.
A little info.... What engine is in it and what was the coldest temp it was exposed to??
I believe it's a 188 diesel. I'm in New Hampshire, USA, and it was parked outside under a tarp so definitely down to the teens (possibly lower) overnight.
Remove the oil pan and pour water in the radiator. You will see the leak. It sat all winter and you didn't check the radiator level or oil level before starting it ?
Not familiar with the setup, Is there an engine oil cooler in the rad on the 188?
Could be a liner 0 ring failed hopefully you never damaged the crank running it.
Yeah, some times I am stupid beyond belief. I was just bringing it closer to the house to go through it (change oil/filters etc) and it didn't leak or really use oil when working so I didn't even think about it.
@highwayghost : I don't believe there is an oil cooler in the radiator. I've really never investigated it. I bought it running last spring with the intention of using it for my wall projects and selling it. I just changed oils/filters and put it to work. @Billrog : I have never been in one of these engines. Can I assume a liner o-ring would be obvious once I pull the pan and pour water into it as Tinkerer suggested, or is it a case of tearing it all down and pulling sleeves to check? Thanks again for all the suggestions.
What Tinker suggested may work I don't know . But sounds like your going to be pulling the head off regardless. BTW the head is very heavy and awkward was my experience. New head gasket and check the head out or have it checked out I had a valve in one of those engines drop and jamb in the piston.
Please don't consider yourself as stupid, Brakechute ! I wasn't criticizing you I just wondered if you had checked the fluids. We all sometimes get in a hurry and forget things like you did.
I appreciate the kind words, but when I screw the pooch I own it, and I should have known better because right now I don't know if it happened sitting or once I started it and those are different kinds of damage. I'm going to wait to tear it down until I'm more certain we're done with snow for the season as it will be done outside. I will post my findings here (and most likely a few more questions). Thanks again.
Maybe you will get lucky and it just pushed open a freeze plug.
I hope vetech is right ! Fill the radiator and start looking for a leaking freeze plug. If it isn't leaking on the outside, take the valve cover off and look for a leak there before you take the oil pan off.
If you're gonna wait that long you *might* think about draining all the water then filling the oil and running it to flush water from the bearings.... I did this on the last GM industrial motor I ran for a *while* before I noticed water pushing out of the oil dipstick tube only my problem came from placement of the motor and a hood leak right into the valve cover breather tube so I had no oil at all left in the crankcase!!! just 100 percent full of rainwater You know it actually ran pretty good while it got warmed up who says water ain't a lubricant??? Although if your plan is a teardown I don't know that it will matter....
Ronsii, Good idea, It's going to get below freezing and if it isn't already smoked - it will be.
Sounds like an o ring on the cyl liner. Pull the pan and pressure the cooling system and you will be able to see which one is leaking.Its not a bad job to do an inframe on those old girls.
Hello again... Finally got back to it and I guess I got "lucky"... Two of the three freeze plugs under the valve train are pushed open. Also found a seam leak at the radiator but that should be easy enough to repair. The rear most plug still appears correct as does the one in the back of the head. I still see no external leaks. The head has no visible cracks in it. My questions to anyone who has "been there done that" are: What are the chances I can just re-seat those two plugs and carry on (they don't appear damaged)? If it's worth a shot, any recommended special sealant on the plugs or just regular old automotive liquid gasket? Knowing this happened, is there anywhere else I should look for problems that typically go along with this? I'm really hoping to get away with not taking it down if there's a chance of getting away with it. Thanks in advance.
Oh you lucky $#%&@!!! Those old plugs will not stay in. They are designed as a press fit. Install new ones as you can drive them in yourself.
With the valve cover off you should check the torque on the head bolts.
Might as well run the valves also.
Verify the leak's fixed first. No sense adjusting the valves if the heads cracked or head gaskets blown.
Run the valves? Not sure what you mean there. I expect to adjust the clearances because the rocker shaft pedestals block the edge of the freeze plugs preventing me from getting a square shot on them (noticed that after saying "just reseat them") so they need to come out. Is there more to it than that, with the head in place?
Yep, set the clearance
Will probably need to rotate the rockers to gain straight access to the freeze plugs to set them properly. Here’s some good info on installing them. http://knowhow.napaonline.com/know-how-notes-how-to-install-freeze-plugs/
Permatex For-a-Gasket #1 is made to coat core(freeze) plugs. You coat the sides and rear of the plug with this sealer then press the plug into place. Many people believe these are so if your coolant freezes they will pop. That is not what they are for. The are to seal holes that need to be there when sand casting parts. Yes, many times if the cooling system frezes they will pop out. Unfortunately more often than not there is other damage that is not so easily repaired. I hope you get lucky.
After you get the new plugs in, drain the oil pan and leave the plug (out) off. Fill the radiator with water and pressurize the cooling system. Then, look for leaks everywhere especially coming out of the oil pan.
Thanks for all the input, and extra thanks for any good wishes sent as they worked. Wound up strapping the rocker shaft assembly together and removing it as a unit since it seemed easier taking it down and cleaning it out on the bench. Reassembled/reinstalled the same way. First attempt didn't go so well. My local NAPA didn't have "real" core plugs with the sides, only these silly convex disk things. Got them installed (with a swipe of Permatex) and didn't punch them through into the head, however on pressure test they started weeping at 10 psig. Ran a screw through them to remove them (and once again, didn't lose one in the head!) and managed to find the "real" ones at another place and popped them in. Those tested out fine (slight drop but that could be my old worn out radiator tester) and confirmed that that was the leak in the system. Washed a few quarts of cheapo motor oil down through the head to try to chase out the mayo. Refilled with new filter, will probably run it a few hours on a small project and change the oil again. Funny thing... the "bad noise" that initially let me know something wasn't right is still there. Hard to trace it, but I'm guessing this ordeal did bad things to the water pump. I guess time will tell. For now she's back in service. Thanks again for all the assistance.
Super lucky!! I have the gas engine one, still works like a champ.
Good to hear!
It appears that you lucked out. Congrats....hopefully you learned your lesson.
It's easy to check a water pump, get a hand on a radiator fan blade and try to shake it.