I am in process of tearing apart my 1971 Case 580CK which developed a knock a few weeks back. It turns out to have spun the big end of the #4 rod. No surprise there as I have read here on this board more than a few stories of the same failure. I have been taking pics of the tear down and eventually may post a series of those. It has become time to pull the tachometer drive from the side of the block and I have been searching for a puller to do so. Lot's of interesting suggestions on the web. Some use a modified slide hammer with a vise grip attachment. My service manual says to weld an old broken cable end to a slide hammer attachment. Unfortunately I did not have one to sacrifice. Fortunately I am a machinist and measured the threads and fabricated a custom puller. The internal threads on the tach drive on my engine are 47/64-20. Which means a major diameter of 47/64" aka 0.734" and 20 threads per inch pitch. A rather strange thread, but not the most unusual I have had to create. The puller I created has a 3/4 bar that I turned this odd thread on one end and tapped the other end 1/2-13 which was for a short piece of threaded rod. (a lazy man's way of making male threads). The other piece is an alum rod I drilled clearance for the 3/4" all the way thru and counter-bored 1.33" x 1" deep which is just larger than the flange on the tach drive. To use it, the 47/64 thread gets screwed into the tach drive and slipping the aluminum piece over that so that the c-bore straddles the tach drive flange and pres against the block. The 1/2" stud sticks out the top and by screwing down the 1/2 nut and holding the alum piece which I added wrench flats to. PRESTO the tach drive comes right out. I hope this helps others down the road.
That is an awesome puller Doug. I envy your lathe capabilities.
Nice job it looks like you got it from the store.
Hey Doug I have run into the same problem today. Lucky me. Unfortunately I am not a machinist. Any suggestions.
That is an awesome puller for sure. I made a crude one using a hyd. fitting and a piece of all thread once but nothing like that. You might want to consider a patten on that and selling them to people like us.
I made a crude one myself. I used a piece of 1" pipe and welded a nut that threaded onto the drive to a long all thread. Then used a thick washer on top of the pipe and a nut that pulled the drive out. I found out that who ever worked on the engine before we got it pulled the cam without pulling the drive. The gear at the end was gone. I'm still looking for a gear that would work or a used one. It's like $150 for a new one... too much for just having the tach!
PJ. That’s what I did to. $150 for tach drive and another 50 for a cable. At the time was rebuilding the entire 188d and couldn’t justify the costs just to make the tach spin. I eventually may get it working but certainly not a requirement. I am surprised by the people who were able to make a piece of all thread work. I tried several times but no success. Coy. Patents cost way to much for something like this. And the whole point of this great forum IMO is to share the knowledge. Plus If someone wanted one I’d figure out how much is fair to make another...
Awesome news. I rewired the whole backhoe. I ran it today and felt where the tachometer cable goes and while it was running it was spinning. So I’m assuming that all I have to do is insert the new tachometer cable and I should be good to go. The only issue now is if I leave the battery connected the light on the left side of the dash stays on telling me it’s ready to start.
Glad to hear it is running. It’s good to not need the $150 tach drive. I have rewired mine to have as few wires as needed. And i added a battery disconnect that gets shut off every time I walk away. Since doing this it seems to start more reliably and need less time on a charger.
Where did you get the battery disconnect from.
It shouldn't need a disconnect switch. If you need to maintain the battery with a charger so it starts reliably there is a parasitic drain in the electrical system.
Yeah what I was saying is the light on the left hand side stays on now all the time with the battery hooked up.
I agree that it shouldn’t need a disconnect. In my situation this tractor can go weeks or more without being touched and I have had more success with walking up to her and starting and overall battery life after I added the disconnect. I had gone through several tractor specific As well as universal ignition switches and all of them had what Fester call parasitic drain. To frustrating when the tractor is not someplace I want to drive the truck for a jump start. Easier in my world to just always shut off the battery. I used a standard boat style disconnect mounted to the left side of the dash as seen in the picture.
Not a bad idea at all. I will be looking into one.
Is that light staying on with the ignition key in the off position ?
Yes even with the key out. I rewired everything according to the manual but none of the old gauges work either. I ordered the new ones just taking forever.
Doug, sorry to take your original thread topic off course. But it happens sometimes. I try to avoid it. Festeraxp, does it still have the generator and regulator it originally had ? Or has it been converted to a different type of charging system ?
Mine has an alternator.
Are you sure you have a 580CK ? Or a 580CK series C ? You probably have a defective alternator. Provided it is wired correctly.
It’s a construction king.
I would post a picture but it won’t let me upload a file right now.
This is what I have.
They are all Construction Kings hence the CK. The first 580's made were simply 580CK's. Can you post the serial number of the tractor ? Looks like we were posting at the same time.
Another pic.
The other side.
The tags where the serial number was are gone. All I have is the one on the engine. Then there was one below the seat but it’s all faded away.
It sucks because it would be a lot easier to find stuff out about it. It was my paps. I’m assuming early 70’s or late 60’s. Maybe earlier.
There is what it looks like has a high low as I’m assuming they all did.
It appears to be a 580CK. The air cleaner is different on the 580 series C. So, someone has converted it to a alternator. I am guessing it is wired incorrectly or the alternator is defective. Is it a GM alternator ? I have done those conversions myself and the idiot light works correctly.
Yes. I just replaced it with a new one because the old battery would always die.
There is the new alternator. I had to replace the radiator and fan too.
The idiot light worked correctly before too but now after I rewired it, it stays on. So obviously I did something wrong.
Can you post a photo to the back of the alternator. It appears the wiring is incorrect from what little I can see. There should be a plastic plug with two wires plugged onto two spade connectors at the top of the alternator.
Yes it’s going to take me a little bit but I will. Just ran out of the house to the store.
Here is the pics of the back.
I see the spot where the tab should be plugged in but I do not have one. Any suggestions. What wires are supposed to run to it?
That plug can be purchased at any auto parts store. I don't know how your red light is wired but it needs to be wired like in the photo I am posting. y
Really weird that your photo was inserted in my post. Never had that happen before.
I appreciate your help I’ll get on that tomorrow.
I’m pretty sure I have that one red wire from the alternator running to the idiot light.
That would explain why it is on all the time.
Lol. Yeah I’ll get that plug tomorrow. Slowly but surely I’m getting there. So you think I have the gauges hooked up wrong or do you think they are just all shot? I know hard to ask that without you seeing them.
Hard to to tell from northern Illinois. Get the alternator wired correctly then see what the gauges do is all I can suggest. Seems strange they all quit tho. I'm sure you will get everything working.
I’m looking forward to getting it done. Then time to pull the back hydraulic cylinders and repack them. At least I know what I’m doing on that.
Where do I begin today. I must have it wired up wrong. Bought the connector. Wired it up and boom the light is still on with no key in it. So it has to be wrong somewhere on my end.
Do you have a schematic diagram of the electrical system ? You say you rewired the whole machine, doe's that mean all new wires and the original harness is not on it ?
Yes no harness I’ll show you what I got.
Was the original voltage regulator removed and the wires to rerouted ?
That’s what I used. But I don’t have a generator so I must be off on something.
I believe it was. This is what I have. It’s not pretty yet but I’m getting there.
I don't know if that fold out schematic is for your tractor. It has an ammeter in it and you have a red light. Or do you have both ? What is the solenoid for ? Manifold air heater ?
Yes one side to the manifold heater the other side to the starter.
I just went off of the way it was when I got it. It ran so I figured it must be right but that’s why I’m here to pick the knowledgeable people’s brains.
Now im really really confused, when I try starting the backhoe the starter just keeps going and going and going.
Is the red light for the alternator wired to the ign. terminal ? Or is it on the bat. terminal ? Either the ignition switch is stuck in the start position or it is broken internally. Or the starter solenoid is stuck.
Some reason I have one wire running to the idiot light and one going to the ign spot on the ignition.
Good. It should be .ign to idiot light -- idiot light to new wire on the alternator and no other wires in the circuit ?
No I have to go back to the drawing board on this.
I too just completely re wired my ck. Here are the scematics I based my re do on. Made some changes cause I used an alt and an ammeter gauge. As well as added a relay to power up a fuse block for accessory’s ect.
And yes I took screen shot pictures of most of them in this forum. Would share the link to the post but all I have are the pictures right now. Good luck.
Thanks I’m going to need it. I appreciate everyone’s help here.
All the 580’s are CK or Construction King’s. The original until 1971were 580CK. Then in late 1971 they came out with the 580B CK. Every few years they went another letter. The 580C CK was 1975 or 76 The 580D CK was 1980 and so on. No worries on stealing the thread. Not a thing I care about. The moderators might but not me. I started this one to share what I learned about the tach drive.
Thanks overkill. I’m so lost right now. Should have just stuck to the tach and repacking cylinders.
Okay so looking over things today the wire from my starter is constant hot. I don’t even have to turn the key to make it start just touching the wire to the ign part of the ignition makes it start. You guys think maybe the gauges are bad, or does that not matter?
No starter wire to ign. -----the wire that powers the starter should be on the start terminal. Unless you have a push button for the starter. I don't know what type of ign switch you have. Quite often the push button is eliminated and replaced with a plain ole ignition switch with a turn to start position. There should be a 12ga. or heavier wire connected to the battery post on the starter and then up to the Bat. post on the ignition switch. That is what powers everything on the tractor usually. And that is the power source for the gauges that are electrical. Oil and engine temp are quite often mechanical.
I do not have the push button but I do have the three position key start. Turn left for the manifold heater then center for off then right for run. That is the before picture. Now it is a work in progress.
Nasty looking wire terminations. Needs new nuts and a lot of cleaning. Better use penetrating oil on them before attempting to remove them. All new cable ends are needed also. Cut the wire back until you get shiny copper exposed. It is amazing that the wire with the spade connector that is part way off the post even passes current. Only a couple of strands of wire left in one piece. It would be interesting to know what all the added on wires go to. How bout another photo of the red wire in the bottom of the image ?
I pulled them all off. Lol. That’s why I’m where I’m at now all confused.
Did you put the starter wire on the correct (start) post on the ignition switch ? Do the gauges show any signs of life when you turn the key to the start position ? I am thinking your problems may be in the ignition switch or how the wires are connected to it. I would think the old wires were specific lengths for where they went. Can you try and reposition them to get an idea as to where they went ? This is the reason we can never take enough photos before dismantling wires or parts. I would suggest that you go back to the oem wireing schematic diagram and start tracing one wire at a time.
Okay after following the directions on here finally got it done today.
Everything working ? Or just the starter problem ? Or ??
Everything is working. I ordered a new light switch today so when hat comes I’ll wire that up and should be good to go. I’ll post pics as soon as I get the wire covers on. Now I’m going to make a tach cable and put that in. I ordered a motorcycle repair cable online. So away I go.
I don't know if the CK is anything like the C, but I found in ours a bad relay under the dash. This wasn't to the starter relay, but instruments and lighting goes off this and it was intermittent. Sometimes it would work other times not. It also wasn't something you could reasonably get to from the access ports. I had to take the whole dash shroud off which meant taking the steering column out. Yuck!! A lot of work to get to a stupid malfunctioning relay! If that has one, you might check or replace it if you have the shroud off.
Good info. pj. The 580CK 1966 - 1971 had kinda bare bones wiring systems. No relay like that that I know of.
Got the led headlights hooked up today. What you guys think?
Put the gauges in. Can’t get the tach to work though. Hmmmmm
Don’t look too bad.
The dash looks good. Did you make the tach cable core yourself ?
Thanks yeah I did but unfortunately I don’t have it pushed in all the way.
Was that the problem ? The correct length is critical.
It’s the correct length I just never completely pulled it out which I now know I just do.
fresteraxp, & tinkerer, I have the same problem with trying to rewire my 33s (71-580CK) this Delco Remy was already installed prior to my purchase...I asked a few guys last week but only received pics on the generator installs...I am totally lost with this rats nest of wiring...
Welcome to HEF, Jerry ! Click on 580C. You need to open it with a .pdf reader. Like Adobe.
nope, the 580 wring pdf. they are all different...it doesn't have mine there
Doug, Any chance you’d consider making one of these awesome pullers for someone like me? Or at least let me know what one would cost for your trouble? I’m in the same predicament - have a new drive gear and cable - just need to remove the old drive gear. Any info is welcome.
Post #41 in this thread has detailed photos of my puller. Click on the images to open an enlarged version of it.
Thanks
Anyone on here have any experience/success removing the little square end of the tach drive cable from the tach drive gear itself? I finally had a chance to check mine out. I was able to unthread the fitting and much to my surprise, the drive gear spins as the engine runs. However, my problem is the end of the cable being broken down inside of little center hole of the drive gear so it will not accept the new cable. Just wondering if it is even possible to remove it when it is stuck that way. I’ve tried a little magnet with no luck. Thanks in advance for any info.
Remove the drive from the block. Turn it upside down and tap it on something solid. A vise, open just far enough to let the cable piece fall through would be my choice. A dental pick my pull it out to. I like dental picks because they are extremely small, hard and sharp. FWIW - A dental pick is the best thing I ever used to remove deeply embedded slivers. Especially steel slivers.
Doesn’t sound like you still need the puller. If you do I may have time to finally make a couple sets. I agree with the dental picks. I own a set in every toolbox in some form. Just gently work the gap until the piece is loose enough to pluck it out. Of course if the drive comes out then the upside bump on the vise should do it.
Doug, Would greatly appreciate if you were able to make up a puller for me in the event I am unable to get the end of the cable out of the existing drive gear. Let me know what you would charge me for such a tool. I would most certainly pay the shipping to get it here. Best regards, JGuild
Doug, many chance you can send me that puller you made up? Or have time to make me up a new one? Hoping to tackle this tach drive gear soon. Thanks
You could screw the cable back on it and grip the thumb nut with a vice grip. It may come out with very little effort. Be careful to not damage the nut. If the cable sheared off flush or below the drive shaft you will need to pull the tach drive out of the block to remove it.
Since I have been asked a couple times now. I am going to make a batch of these tachometer pullers. I’ve been meaning to for a while and it’s seems like now that snowmobile season has ended I’ll have some time. I’m not sure what they will cost. It may depend on how many I create in this batch. My first guess is to sell them for ~$50 with free shipping. quick show of hands. Who may want one?